Wizards Den

My hapless wanderer (let's call her Alice) escaped the Wold forest only to stumble upon a large, featureless and dusty plane, at the center of which lies Castle Morrow, a fort populated by mechanical servitors and a single live member of a rare cult of Chronos. Alice's ignorance of local custom...

DroidDev

@SPArchaeologist that's actually a link to question, not any particular answer :/

though, I read that thread the other day, seems pretty interesting to me

though, I don't like the poison strategy, but its pretty effective

SPArchaeologist

the accepted one

DroidDev

8:36 AM

ya, well...I think that precognitor will be able to see the other warrior not committing to any attack six seconds before and just dodge it

so....I agree with you there

I like the other one, where the attacker prolongs the battle and wait until the response time is longer than prediction time

SPArchaeologist

all depends on the particular definition of "precognitive" you have.

DroidDev

I didn't have any definition for the word before I read the question, so anything that I have is from that question

SPArchaeologist

the more the "precognitive" shift to "all is predetermined giving the initial input", the more you won't have any hope to apply whatever technique those answers describe

DroidDev

but there is a limit of only 6 seconds prediction, so you can plan

I mean, your plan is to prolong the battle until the response time is longer than prediction time and precognitor will never know of that, because he can only read attacks, not minds

@maveň idiots

SPArchaeologist

@DroidDev let me take a different approach.

suppose you have a regular dice

each face has a 1/6 probably to come up when you toss it?

DroidDev

8:47 AM

so you are talking about making 6 moves in one go?

SPArchaeologist

@DroidDev nope. You see... Einstein said once "God doesn't play dices". If you take that phrase to extremes you can conclude that the actual dice toss does not depend on probability, but only on precise formulas and math models we aren't yet capable to fully model

thus, man decided to approximate by "making up" a concept of probability.

Shadow Wizard

status-busy-after-many-days-of-holiday

:(

DroidDev

@SPArchaeologist I like where you are going with this. But, I'd like to read a full plan from you instead of my half-educated guesses

SPArchaeologist

@DroidDev well... Someone said you should add "random factor" to the battle. Problem is that in that context random does not exist... even if YOU call it random, the computer is still able to calculate it. If you try to devise a plan, the system is capable to read it 6 second before you do. The system should be "infinitely adapting" to everything you can toss against it.

There actually was a episode in one of the animated series of Batman that dealt with the same problem - precognitive enemy. in the end they choosed the accepted answer - "random". Never liked it

@DroidDev now, what I meant is that unless the story maker puts some limits to this "precognitive power" you can allways find a way the precognitive AI "should" prevent the defeat.

In that case, there is only a way to "win". Causing something unpreventable - even if the AI knows it, it still has no way to handle it

The problem is finding something "unpreventable" that fits the story.

if it was Goku we were talking about..... genkidama would be an answer. Even if you know it is targeted at you, a normal person wouldn't have much hope to escape. - note, even that way you can find some holes in the solution... but that should give the general idea.

Shadow Wizard

9:28 AM

@maveň some :P

@EngrAnum room?? This is the Den, not just a "room" :-D

oh, and welcome! ;)

SPArchaeologist

@ShadowWizard pony

Shadow Wizard

@SPArchaeologist Buttons

SPArchaeologist

@ShadowWizard C&D

Shadow Wizard

9:46 AM

@SPArchaeologist Jan Animations ( that was sad to read :/ )

SPArchaeologist

Hasbro standard. Nuff said, but it is true. The commercial department has no clue of what they are doing.

Shadow Wizard

@SPArchaeologist yeah, that's really lame

SPArchaeologist

@ShadowWizard I could tell other samples of such nonsensical behaviour.

maveň

10:11 AM

@ShadowWizard he already replied :-)

DroidDev

@SPArchaeologist sorry, I went for lunch, but hey! That's a cool idea and every argument you provided are true and I am impressed by the idea. I'd even make an account on worldbuilding to just upvote this answer if you post one :)

well...now I am thinking of something that could be unpreventable in given situation

maveň

DroidDev

ROFL

:|

SPArchaeologist

@DroidDev that is the whole point. As I see it, the whole WorldBuiling site is more inclined to a "discussion" approach than to a clear reply one.

DroidDev

10:28 AM

@SPArchaeologist ya, I say not a clear to the point answer and I like your idea better than anyone out there. Plus, its a great challenge to execute it. But, surely is fun

anyway...gotta run(help xamarin guy, though never coded on xamarin)

SPArchaeologist

@DroidDev what I meant is that the question is open enough to make almost every solution contestable.

maveň

still people call me maveň rather than malviň, so back to maveň.

SPArchaeologist

take the poison for example. I could go saying that even if the ai can't see past the 6 second it will know that in 6 second from now the knight will be contaminated by component XYZ, which effect it can analyse based on its "infinite ability" to do so.

DroidDev

10:56 AM

well...in any case, AI can only predict six seconds in future, so if anyone can come-up with a strategy in like 2 seconds and then execute it in next 2 seconds, won't that be a win?

I mean, if a guy is naturally that fast. He is making strategies on the fly. No plans or anything. Just like that

SPArchaeologist

11:09 AM

@DroidDev remember how before I have used that "dice" example? The moment you toss the dice no "probability" exist. All is determined by the environment and how you toss the dice... strength, direction etc.

The AI has full knowledge of the environment, potentially including you. What does it mean?

as far as I read it, it will know the environment state and how you will toss that dice 6 second before.

Shadow Wizard

@maveň oh, it was hidden too well, even from me. Since it's only one word vs. 5 better leave it like this, @Dro will survive :)

SPArchaeologist

@DroidDev That means that potentially the system can know that you will come up with a strategy 6 second before you do. Yep.... 6 second before you will think to "attack at random" or use many of the other idea that page suggest, the Ai will already have calculated that your body composition (since you are a machine like it - deterministic and all, only composed by organic component instead of metal...) will make you think so.

Shadow Wizard

>>latestword

2 hours ago, by Shadow Wizard

@SPArchaeologist Jan Animations ( that was sad to read :/ )

SPArchaeologist

the point is to make that info useless

then again you have another option but that is more open to opposition

base all the solution on a anime like concept

ie you cannot prevent me because I am human and that is what make me more than a machine

DroidDev

hmm....but that also depends on the nanomites in the enviroment, so...it actually depends on since how long have you been in environment. In other case, you can just drop from air, get into fight and win, because AI won't have much knowledge on you at that point. But that's not the scenario in question...so....your argument is valid and only right answer in any case on that question that I've seen

@ShadowWizard and your reply is infinitely better than mine ;)

Shadow Wizard

11:30 AM

@DroidDev lol, that's true :D

maveň

just given a ossmm answer

1

A: Android: The right way to debug an running application (runtime errors/log)

You can build on the command line with ant. See this guide. & install it by using adb on the command line. adb install MyApp.apk path of apk with file extension update for getting logcat or crash report do this way: adb logcat note: make sure only one device is connected to adb brid...

SPArchaeologist

@DroidDev even so, I don't know how much you could stretch that "precognitive" rule.

As far as I know, the system should detect you before you detect him and prepare a direct hit as soon as you enter the room.

"drop from air" you said... 6 second before I would know you will enter, and open the trapdoor to the lava pool under you.

DroidDev

@SPArchaeologist nope, you won't know that I am going to drop into your environment 6 seconds before I have. That's because there are nanomites in food, air and everything in that environment. Once you enter that environment, its only then, that system starts analyzing you. So, if you are just at an in-and-out job, the system won't have much information about you and you can prevail in that situation.

SPArchaeologist

yep but what is the environment?

to me it seems to be the whole planet.

and the knight is in a room of some temple

when you meet him you will be in the environment

you will have been from hours probably.

also, there is the whole "Vortrex & cake slice" problem from the Hitcher Guide

that may become appropriate in some situations.

DroidDev

11:46 AM

ya, that's just a gamble in any case. But be in any temple, dropping form air is fast than anything. Then again, its only a gamble and a maybe case, because it totally depends on system's speed to recognize you.

SPArchaeologist

yep, as I said, much is dependent on the limits the maker gives to the precognition he has described.

rene

>>latestword

DroidDev

2 hours ago, by Shadow Wizard

@SPArchaeologist Jan Animations ( that was sad to read :/ )

rene

@ShadowWizard Italian

@DroidDev tnx

DroidDev

@rene anytime :)

@rene Ferrari

rene

12:02 PM

*i

fixed :)

@DroidDev Top Gear

@rene five

@Roombatron5000 high

@ShadowWizard Cannabis

Roombatron5000

12:10 PM

@rene thc

rene

@Roombatron5000 drug

Roombatron5000

@rene caffeine

Shadow Wizard

@Roombatron5000 Coca Cola

SPArchaeologist

@ShadowWizard Franky

Roombatron5000

can't believe this made it to hot network question

HNQ must be broken

DroidDev

12:20 PM

hiya @Roombatron5000

so you changed the name and avatar again?

Roombatron5000

hey @dro , yes

@SPArchaeologist frankly

DroidDev

@Roombatron5000 haha, at-first I was wondering about it, but then it was obvious that I was falling in same trap again ;)

@Roombatron5000 speaking

Roombatron5000

12:35 PM

@DroidDev softly

DroidDev

@Roombatron5000 touching

Roombatron5000

@DroidDev keys

DroidDev

@Roombatron5000 private

berserk

yo peeps

DroidDev

yo!

back from home?

@Roombatron5000 If that kind of questions are allowed on that site, I'll cross 10k in one week ;)

Roombatron5000

12:45 PM

@DroidDev public

berserk

@DroidDev yea

@ShadowWizard :O

DroidDev

@berserk you caused that, NEWBIE!!! :P

@Roombatron5000 toilet

@DroidDev yuck

@ShadowWizard nasty

12:48 PM

@ShadowWizard fuck

DroidDev

@Roombatron5000 BDSM

lol

Shadow Wizard

@berserk no worry, I'll sort it out soon, next time just pay more attention :-)

DroidDev

@berserk ok, don't cry, @Shadow will fix it :)

berserk

:D

Shadow Wizard

lol

Roombatron5000

12:50 PM

@DroidDev MSDN

DroidDev

Boo!

@Roombatron5000 DOS

maveň

7 hours ago, by malviň

kill @berserk-Sama

and ran away

berserk

lol

maveň

@spa did you looked at that pony ^

Shadow Wizard

@DroidDev Alley Cat

maveň

12:56 PM

@DroidDev & @maveň crushing bones of @berserk

berserk

ouch!

maveň

now @berserk have no way to escape!

SPArchaeologist

@maveň yep sorry, was looking at mmorpgs

to find something to play

as usual... all the stuff I would play is in Chinese....

maveň

berserk

@SPArchaeologist found any good one?

maveň

1:00 PM

@SPArchaeologist ohhh :(

SPArchaeologist

@berserk Moonlight Blade seem good. Still beta. Still no hope of coming outside asia.

berserk

Have u played DBO?

SPArchaeologist

@berserk DBO?

berserk

Dragon Ball Online

its dead now tho, but was a good mmorpg

SPArchaeologist

wasn't that TOO asia only?

berserk

1:10 PM

but ppl making new DBO

There were 3 versions

Taiwanese, korean and chinese

But it was having english translation.

Partial tho :|

Shadow Wizard

MU Online rulz!

wonder if it's still alive, played it like 10 years ago :D

berserk

MU?

Shadow Wizard

yup

hmm.... lemme check

SPArchaeologist

@ShadowWizard So did Ultima Online. 10 years ago.

Shadow Wizard

looks like it's still alive, amazing! muonline.webzen.com/main

@SPArchaeologist heard about it, but never played.... is it like MU online?

@Roombatron5000 not really, it got two answers with tons of upvotes, so as far as the system knows, it's boiling hot :)

I believe that negative score on the question itself, or closing it, would make it go away from the HNQ list though

SPArchaeologist

1:17 PM

@ShadowWizard was good and would still be, but graphically is just too old to still pay a month sub

Shadow Wizard

@SPArchaeologist no free version? MU online shipped as free to play, and only certain upgrades cost money - ideal model, IMO

SPArchaeologist

@ShadowWizard was one of the first mmorpg game. the concept of F2p wasn't developed at time

they left the game die on itself

never upgrading or else

now they are launching a new expansion, 7 years after the last one (that was already obsolete when launched)

all could be pointed out as a consequence of the Origin - Lord British company begin bought by EA and then destroyed.

@ShadowWizard also see how Ultima 9 had turned out.

berserk

@ShadowWizard does MU have auction house?

Shadow Wizard

@SPArchaeologist how? didn't Google that one yet

@berserk no idea, I just checked to see if it's still around... back when I played it was very basic, and most people played on private servers to get everything for free.

I played for around a full year, then gave up due to all the cheaters when it became too much to handle. I worked hard to become powerful and then a level 1 player come and slay a super hard boss with one hit.

berserk

1:34 PM

lol

Shadow Wizard

@-@

thing is, the company didn't do anything to stop them, so wonder if they're still around these days and people simply don't care D:

SPArchaeologist

@berserk @ShadowWizard anyway.... UO was point&click as WoW or other games of the same school. I was looking for an action mmorpg

berserk

How abt scroll skyrim?

I never played tho.

Just saw gameplay.

SPArchaeologist

@berserk Elder Scroll Skyrim or the online version? Elder scroll online?

maveň

status-bye-TC

berserk

1:38 PM

@SPArchaeologist yes

@maveň lol cya

online

maveň

@berserk lol ?

berserk

SPArchaeologist

@berserk not tried but seems it has nothing to do with the elder scroll and is pretty generic/bad

most said that Elder scroll is just in the name.

the game does not feel anything like the original

maveň

berserk

lmao

SPArchaeologist

1:45 PM

Peria Chronicles also seem interesting. But even if it will be localized outside asia, it will surely die to the uncouth army.

berserk

Any game close to SAO?

or Log horizon?

SPArchaeologist

close enough for you?

yes, that one would be an online game

berserk

which one is this?

SPArchaeologist

Peria Chronicles

still in dev

Korean/chinese

so no hope for me to understand it

berserk

lol

SPArchaeologist

1:48 PM

can only look at pictures and dream

will be a mmorpg - sandbox hybrid

you can create new item by combining parts so to build new "graphics"

berserk

I guess they will add translations.

SPArchaeologist

@berserk such game needs an official port

private server wont' be able to replicate it

you will have the ability to create custom maps, custom items, custom ANIMATIONS and behaviour via a script language

so as I said, even if they localize it, will become the "feast of the uncouth player"

berserk

@SPArchaeologist :O

SPArchaeologist

@berserk look at the trailer. They show how the players had recreated a giant Tetris console inside the game

you can also notice a book that contains some sort of javascript like script

SPArchaeologist

2:22 PM

there would also be other games, but all unreleased outside Asia, so even if fan translation exists, you would be stuck on private servers.

SPArchaeologist

2:38 PM

would be funny to try....

would a mmorpg suggestion question be fitting for Software Recommendations ?

berserk

lol

SPArchaeologist

3:09 PM

the last word?

we buried it under some pretty long posts

Shadow Wizard

3:41 PM

@SPArchaeologist still this.

SPArchaeologist

@ShadowWizard nyan cat

Shadow Wizard

@SPArchaeologist meme

SPArchaeologist

@ShadowWizard Twilycane

Shadow Wizard

4:00 PM

isn't it Twilicane, @SPA?

@SPArchaeologist Scepter

SPArchaeologist

@ShadowWizard actually, yes, it is

rene

Guess who is trying to be funny today?

Shadow Wizard

Who? whistles innocently

rene

@ShadowWizard staff

SPArchaeologist

@rene wizardry

rene

4:11 PM

@SPArchaeologist Hogwarts

Shadow Wizard

4:22 PM

@rene Minecraft

@ShadowWizard game

@rene thrones

@ShadowWizard הכס

@rene alien :P

@DroidDev Basinger

4:37 PM

hence I was forced to google

@rene Kim

rene

@DroidDev Kardashian

DroidDev

@rene MMS

well...something recently leaked about them people ;)

berserk

4:53 PM

@DroidDev scandal

@ProgramFOX sup?

FOX 9000

Bot started with waiting time set to 0 seconds.

ProgramFOX

I was busy starting up the bot ;)

@berserk upset

FOX 9000

@ProgramFOX understandable

berserk

@FOX9000 table

FOX 9000

@berserk carve

berserk

4:57 PM

@FOX9000 embedd

FOX 9000

No associated word found for embedd.

:O

@berserk embed

@ProgramFOX firmly

5:42 PM

>>alive

FOX 9000

@ProgramFOX Yes, I'm alive.

berserk

@FOX9000 strong

FOX 9000

@berserk incomparably

berserk

@FOX9000 difference

FOX 9000

@berserk irreconcilable

DroidDev

5:44 PM

@FOX9000 irresponsible

@DroidDev popular

@FOX9000 celebrity

@DroidDev art

@FOX9000 living

@berserk diverse

5:44 PM

@FOX9000 unity

@berserk harmonious

@FOX9000 wide

@DroidDev narrow

5:58 PM

@FOX9000 river

@DroidDev estuary

@FOX9000 tidal

@DroidDev eruption

@FOX9000 corruption

@DroidDev corrupt

5:59 PM

@FOX9000 politicians

FOX 9000

@DroidDev crafty

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