Zoe's Meta Foxhole

Tinkeringbell

06:20

@AndreascondemnsIsrael Well?

@Zoe-Savethedatadump Measured in deniers, 80 deniers is almost like leggings.

Andreas condemns Israel

07:11

Makes no sense.

Tinkeringbell

07:31

Huh?

It indeed doesn't :P

Andreas condemns Israel

07:41

Nothing since I left made any sense.

Symptomatic of my absence.

Tinkeringbell

07:59

Well, I'm about to start a mandatory 'security training'.

What doesn't make sense is the thing is mandatory and this morning we got an e-mail telling us that due to "overwhelming interest" there wasn't enough room in the meeting room and part of it will be 'hybrid'

Andreas condemns Israel

Management logics.

Tinkeringbell

Kind of narcistic to call people attending a mandatory training 'overwhelming interest', if you ask me.

Andreas condemns Israel

People can't wait to get over with it.

Tinkeringbell

I dunno, looking at how many meetings they planned for how many people would have to do this mandatory thing, I think they just "underplanned" XD

Andreas condemns Israel

Prosus bought you or something?

Tinkeringbell

08:06

I think it's just that the client is a grid operator and there's 'threats everywhere these days'

Andreas condemns Israel

mhm

Tinkeringbell

08:30

Oh man it's one of those 'killing time' ones: if people have questions, remarks or want to share their own experiences with something.... ugh.

Andreas condemns Israel

What are you talking about, Slate's question on MSE?

Andras Deak -- Слава Україні

@Tinkeringbell we have mandatory trainings that my boss has to pay for

Tinkeringbell

@AndreascondemnsIsrael the mandatory thing ;)

Andreas condemns Israel

@Tinkeringbell Oh, the mandatory training.

Andras Deak -- Слава Україні

(large corporate training system)

Tinkeringbell

08:32

@AndrasDeak--СлаваУкраїні Oh yes, i'm not paying for this, I'm actually earning money :P

Andreas condemns Israel

Megacorporation?

Tinkeringbell

Andras or mine?

Andreas condemns Israel

Don't mind me.

So, the new budget for next year of Bergen is ready. Currently led by Høyre (Conservatives (right side)). Take a look at this statement:

> – Sosialhjelpen i Bergen har vært landets høyeste. Det er utfordrende at den reelt sett konkurrerer med arbeid, sier finansbyråd Jacob Mæhle (H).

Translated:

> The social help in Bergen has been the highest in the country. It's a challenge that in reality, it's been competing with work

So they reduced it from 112 980 NOK per year to 108 840 NOK per year (singles without children).

What a fucking rude statement.

Tinkeringbell

08:48

Ah yeah, lowering social security is always the solution to a 'poverty drop' where you make less money than the already poverish money you get from social security when you do start working.

Andreas condemns Israel

Per month: 9415 ––> 9070 NOK.

@Tinkeringbell That would've been the case with the level of social care for "unfit for work". With 110 000 NOK, it's just a plain lie.

Tinkeringbell

I must admit I have no idea how much it would be in euros, but it does sounds like not much already

Andreas condemns Israel

Most monthly rents for an acceptable living space in the area, are around or higher than the entire monthly payout.

Tinkeringbell

Sounds familiar.

This meeting has reached the 'promotional' phase. Given by a pen-tester, so "if you've never had a pen-test done, go ask for one' XD

Andreas condemns Israel

I haven't had a penetration test done, actually.

Oh, wait, not that kind of penetration.

Speaking of which, been a while since I played Warthunder.

Right, the latency on my TV is kinda bad.

That's probably why.

Tinkeringbell

09:18

Ah, yeah, gaming with latency is no fun ;)

My controller started drifting last night. Luckily I have a spare :)

Andreas condemns Israel

I couldn't get my PS5 controller to connect to the PS3 last time I tried. I should probably look into that again.

Also haven't tried the PS3 controllers with the PS5.

Tinkeringbell

I'm probably ordering new thumb sticks and will try some soldering XD Maybe I'll go visit the local repair café and have someone supervise my attempt :P

I think there's hall-effect ones out there for the Switch Pro controller now too.

Andreas condemns Israel

I don't have soldering equipment.

But I still wanna turn my old laptop into some form of an emulator console.

No idea how I'll do the heat management. Laptop coolers aren't really sufficient.

Well, well, not like I have the tools.

Tinkeringbell

Oh, it's TMR, not hall effect (at least, the ifixit ones I saw).

I'll probably get my own soldering equipment, it's always nice to have something like that and try repairing instead of replacing :)

Andreas condemns Israel

Maybe my dad has some leftover equipment I can take.

Tinkeringbell

09:48

I already asked my dad, he said his equipment is old and broken.

Andreas condemns Israel

Oh, no

Tinkeringbell

That joke doesn't work in Dutch ;)

Andreas condemns Israel

10:07

Good thing there was English today...

I really, really, really want shrimps.

And smoked salmon.

And scrambled eggs.

And milk.

Whole milk.

And butter.

And ham.

Andreas condemns Israel

10:39

How's the shape today, @ꓢPA? Feel like wasting another fresh morning arguing with SE?

ꓢPArcheon

@AndreascondemnsIsrael Oh, actually I was just thinking to do a little though experiment and ask a few mods if they think it was the users base that started antagonizing and making conspiracy theories about the company or it was the company that started antagonizing the users

Mind you, it is not like they can change my view, but I could be interesting to see the different opinion based on how long the user has been here.

Andreas condemns Israel

Yeah, that's gonna be another time waster.

At least, for that one user on MSE (you commented under their post), I've seen... rather strange opinions that conflict with each other pop up.

At one moment praising AI, at the next hating it. It has felt a bit strange.

So that may explain why some people have a sour taste.

Well, for myself, I guess some people are just very tired of me. :P

To a certain point, I'll give them that; "Why am I still here and commenting, if I gave up and moved to Codidact? I'm only here to cause vitriol?"

But then again, that's so unfair. Push out contributors from the site, see them walk away, then get upset when they actually do choose to share something in the space they used to call home?

@ꓢPArcheon If you're thinking about my comment about bribery of the moderators, that was just a big misunderstanding on my part, given the context that I got wrong.

ꓢPArcheon

@AndreascondemnsIsrael no, it is not about that. I am not interested in discussing the eventuality of domesticated moderation or any other agenda. And again, even doing so wouldn't change my mind much so it would be wasted time.

Andreas condemns Israel

Technically, even commenting anything under the latest post is a waste of time, but we both did that. ;)

ꓢPArcheon

Every now and then someone ends up calling for "let's not assume ill intent", "company is not evil" etc etc because of a perceived idea that the users are "calling names" or "antagonizing" the company (words chosen by purpose here).

Yet I still want to know as one of the last few things left to know in this absurd scenario the network find itself in if they really think it was the userbase that started the "antagonistic" us VS them pattern.

Andreas condemns Israel

10:55

It doesn't really matter.

The future of SE is dead.

ꓢPArcheon

Have I said it matters? Or that I still care about how the network will (or actually already has) die?

Andreas condemns Israel

Just saying.

ꓢPArcheon

Currently, I am just playing Uatu.

Andreas condemns Israel

A lot of people already forget the events around 2019, whenever the current conflict comes up again.

ꓢPArcheon

@AndreascondemnsIsrael those are nothing but little nudges toward them saying loud what I am interested to hear

Andreas condemns Israel

10:59

@ꓢPArcheon "Go away, we want an echo chamber"?

Could just pull a Makoto.

ꓢPArcheon

Andreas condemns Israel

@ꓢPArcheon "Not enough AI"

Anyway, the one thing that still somehow manages to piss me off, is the secret communication with mdoerators behind locked doors.

It's so... unethical.

ꓢPArcheon

11:20

and even yet the issue isn't that it is "unethical".

Andreas condemns Israel

@Starship There was heavy and unprecedented consultation with moderators, which I will not talk about because it was in confidence. — wizzwizz4 16 hours ago

This! This is really a disgusting practice.

ꓢPArcheon

The bigger issue is that even if everything was done in good faith and without any ill attempt to scam the users... it still works like the Telephone game/Chinese whispers

just a random example...

A mod wrote:

> So obviously when the Answers Bot leak happened, I just... Got sad, I guess? I say this all because SE is the place I go to for human-generated content that's worth reading to help me with a problem I might have.

Andreas condemns Israel

@ꓢPArcheon That's a side effect which unfortunately works pretty well at discrediting any feedback from non-moderators.

And when you criticize it, best mock that critique:

@AndreascondemnsIsrael I think you're holding the bar unreasonably high. I don't know what kind of work you do, but I don't imagine you'd get anything done if every time you breathed or had an idea you had to solicit opinion from hundreds of people before your next move. It's a recipe for complete paralysis. — Bryan Krause 2 days ago

ꓢPArcheon

Reading this tells me that if the test was actually announced in private and it was just Zoe that missed it, then the mod writing the above line had no place to ... "Get sad" when the leak happened. They should have been sad since mods before, when they learned about it in the private halls.

probably just an unintended meaning here? Sure, but this system creates hundreds of these "unintended, tin foil hat" meaning every week...

Zoe - Save the data dump

@ꓢPArcheon Having re-read, the test was kinda sorta announced, but not really

Again, the explanation it was being continued was at the end of a 30000 character post full of ✨ bullshit ✨ and overall read like "yeah, sure, if we continued this is how we'd do it". On the re-read I did a few days ago, that's not actually what it said

It does have a more specific plan, and it's mostly consistent with what SE has said so far

ꓢPArcheon

11:29

just what I said. Here is another version.

Zoe - Save the data dump

However, it lacked any dates, which also contributed to my confusion - their "plan" was a vague 6-8 one. It could've been scheduled for execution shortly after, it could've been scheduled for execution in 5 years

Andreas condemns Israel

I'm just so damn tired of all the secrecy and the special little club of elites keeping tight on everything, otherwise known as moderators. Sorry, not blaming every moderator for being a moderator, but damn do I blame the moderators who reinforce this bullshit system.

Zoe - Save the data dump

there isn't even a relative timeline in it

@AndreascondemnsIsrael we don't get a choice

our options are to not get anything, or to get a very small amount of things in private that we can't discuss until SE confirms the details publicly, or until they do something dumb like leak it and some of the information can be revealed

ꓢPArcheon

@AndreascondemnsIsrael Keep it simple, no need to anger, and it will only give a reason for deleting your post. Ask instead a simpler uncomfortable question: "If the mods can't agree on what was told them, how can the users be expected to trust their words blindly? And even then, what version should they trust? The one that most favors the company?"

Andreas condemns Israel

@Zoe-Savethedatadump You certainly have a choice in how you deal with these confinements, and you're one of the moderators who handle it most fairly for the rest of the community.

Zoe - Save the data dump

11:33

@AndreascondemnsIsrael yes, but if we deal with them wrong, we get nothing in the future

Andreas condemns Israel

There are moderators who discard criticism simply because they were told. "Ah, I was told, so that's good enough".

Well, I wasn't told, but apparently, that doesn't matter, because I'm a lesser community member?

Anyway.

Zoe - Save the data dump

There are a few cases where mods effectively make decisions on behalf of the community, a bit like elected representatives

But for something like this, I believe that's fundamentally wrong

ꓢPArcheon

@AndreascondemnsIsrael Permit me a little bluntness here, but we are talking about a network that actually went as far as basically [redacted] one of their mod. I don't even understand how someone can WANT to be a mod and risking becoming the next Monica, I don't really blame anyone for not wanting to be seen as the "thorn in the side"

Zoe - Save the data dump

If SE really wants to shove an AI bot on willing sites, and absolutely no other sites, it should be done as a general vote on meta rather than secret backroom negotiations between whichever representatives are currently active (and visit the chatroom regularly enough to see the discussions) and SE

Andreas condemns Israel

Many moderators were chosen ages ago because they were supposed to moderate. They weren't elected to represent the community in secret meetings about secrets that nobody on the outside even knows anything about.

Zoe - Save the data dump

11:37

The problem is that I don't buy for a single god damn planck second that SE is really trying to be ethical about this. I guarantee you they're going to shove it down SO's throat no matter what SO mods or the rest of the community say sooner or later

Andreas condemns Israel

@ꓢPArcheon My frustration is with moderators that defend SE in these practices, and bluntly dismiss other community members.

Like in the two comments I linked.

If there's anything that's really helped push me off this platform, it's that.

Zoe - Save the data dump

@AndreascondemnsIsrael yeah, well, what do you expect from a hypercapitalist company from the land famous for screaming at everyone about freedom while simultaneously undermining their own democracy for profit for the people at the top?

Andreas condemns Israel

@AndreascondemnsIsrael I guess that's why I still get upset at it these days.

@Zoe-Savethedatadump I'm pretty sure none of us expected the state of things to be like today when we first arrived.

Zoe - Save the data dump

In retrospect, after they switched to a profit-driven CEO, the decline of the network turned into guaranteed destruction At Some Point:tm: in the future

Andreas condemns Israel

The sooner they shut down and let everyone continue on elsewhere, the less souls they'll drain.

Zoe - Save the data dump

11:44

There's also not much of a point in fighting it anymore

We're functionally past the point of no return. The only way back is to replace all of management with people who don't hate the product, and who actively seek to understand it

Andreas condemns Israel

"I'm half-robot myself!" --Ratchet & Clank 3 Dub Comparison

►

Zoe - Save the data dump

but that essentially requires returning to the good 'ol days, and you can't un-sell SE

ꓢPArcheon

@AndrasDeak--СлаваУкраїні I took the liberty to reverse your question....

@CesarM Andras already told you why many fell like monetization of the network knowledge content it the only goal for the company, and by this I mean Prosus. But I want to ask the opposite question instead. If it is not a goal of profit that made Prosus buy the network, then what was it? Believing in that "making the internet a better place" thing Jeff had when creating the site? Because in that case I would question... wouldn't turning Stack Exchange in that independent NO PROFIT entity many dream of be the best proof they never intended to use the network just for profit? — ꓢPArcheon 56 secs ago

Zoe - Save the data dump

Anyway, I need to make some breakfast so I can hop in a VC :p

ꓢPArcheon

"they bought us but they didn't pay money because they thought they could make more money than what they paid"

Andreas condemns Israel

11:48

@Zoe-Savethedatadump Show-off!

Who are you voice chatting with?

Zoe - Save the data dump

it's on a server, so whoever's around

Andreas condemns Israel

Server?

Zoe - Save the data dump

code golf's server

Andreas condemns Israel

Never heard of.

Anyway.

Zoe - Save the data dump

It's sure more fun than watching SE dig itself a deeper hole

Andreas condemns Israel

11:51

Probably.

ꓢPArcheon

@AndreascondemnsIsrael Clearly, Zoe finally dropped dev work and started a VTuber life

Andreas condemns Israel

@ꓢPArcheon Her priorities are all messed up!

That's the kind of priority I could make!

Zoe - Save the data dump

@ꓢPArcheon nah

Andreas condemns Israel

I should probably throw my headphones onto my head.

Although no idea what I should listen to.

Nightwish, again?

Tinkeringbell

This training is sooooooo relevant. I had to execute some python script on a Linux commandline.

Guess which things I never use in real life?

Andreas condemns Israel

12:07

Executions

Zoe - Save the data dump

How unfrench of you

Andreas condemns Israel

So, anyone hopped in yet?

Zoe - Save the data dump

Hm?

Andreas condemns Israel

mhmhm?

Tinkeringbell

@AndreascondemnsIsrael Sadly, no.

I want to hop out of here so fast though.... I hope I can get gone soon.

Andreas condemns Israel

12:09

@Tinkeringbell You have nobody to VC with either?! :O

@Tinkeringbell Is there a window nearby?

Tinkeringbell

@AndreascondemnsIsrael Yes but I'd like to escape in a more reasonable way. Like, without risk of cuts :P

Andreas condemns Israel

Climb into a vent.

Tinkeringbell

It's ground floor though so the window shall be my backup possibility. If possible I'll just take the stairs to the parking garage :P

Andreas condemns Israel

Ground floor? You have space for that in the Netherlands?

Tinkeringbell

Yeeep

Andreas condemns Israel

12:12

Outrageous!

I still don't know what to listen to.

Tinkeringbell

Hmm. Kabouterdans?

Andreas condemns Israel

Nei.

Tinkeringbell

Sorry, no help here then. I always just put on classical music when I feel like I need some noise

Andreas condemns Israel

mhm

Zoe - Save the data dump

@Tinkeringbell I just start talking :P

Andreas condemns Israel

12:26

With yourself?

It's a bit annoying when I start talking with myself for a good chunk of time only to realize afterwards that my window's been wide open for everybody to listen.

Tinkeringbell

Also, if I get too used to that, I start doing it when I'm not by myself. E.g. on office days. And then coworkers look at me like 'Please shut up'

Andreas condemns Israel

Oui, that's how it goes.

Tinkeringbell

13:14

Blegh. The 'practical' part of this mandatory training comes with excercises that are waaaaaaaaaaaay too irrelevant, poorly explained, using things no one here has ever used before, and that punish you for asking for help.

I'm out of here, I'm going to kill time on the internet.

Andreas condemns Israel

No payment for surfing.

Tinkeringbell

13:29

Too bad, no one knows so I still get paid. Hopefully, in another hour or so, I can start going home ;)

Andreas condemns Israel

Sending this confession to your boss

Tinkeringbell

Then (if the traffic Gods are kind) I have time for a short nap before I have to make dinner, wrap some presents, clean the kitchen, fold the laundry, shower + wash my hair, and declutter the living room table/bookshelf.

Andreas condemns Israel

Funny observation, "boss" is a Norwegian word for "trash". :D

Tinkeringbell

Eh, my boss doesn't care all that much ;)

Zoe - Save the data dump

13:56

@AndreascondemnsIsrael No, it's the western word for it. No one else says that

Andreas condemns Israel

@Zoe-Savethedatadump Thanks, these were the two stupidest sentences I read today.

Helt og holdent boss. ;)

Zoe - Save the data dump

14:13

@AndreascondemnsIsrael no u

Andreas condemns Israel

@Zoe-Savethedatadump No me, you u.

betseg

14:49

>:3c

@Zoe-Savethedatadump

Zoe - Save the data dump

@betseg >:3

Andreas condemns Israel

Bet seg?

You'd you bite yourself?

I can't even formulate a "why"...

Zoe - Save the data dump

15:23

colon three

Andreas condemns Israel

The trees are supposed to have leaves, not colons, dumbass! :P

Andreas condemns Israel

16:03

Brrrrrrr

Zoe - Save the data dump

17:45

@AndreascondemnsIsrael got here from vc for the record

Andreas condemns Israel

@Zoe-Savethedatadump Happy to see you're making friends.

Andras Deak -- Слава Україні

21:58

@AndreascondemnsIsrael Lordi

@AndreascondemnsIsrael ah, the Russian exit

Andras Deak -- Слава Україні

22:16

Interesting take from balpha on Slate's question meta.stackexchange.com/a/404919/313143

Zoe - Save the data dump

23:29

> We need to figure that out, and if there are things about Stack Overflow that no longer make sense in 2025, then let's bring the sledge hammer.

Pretty much, yeah

The privilege system in particular just needs to be ripped out

Andras Deak -- Слава Україні

Again with the liberal propaganda, yeesh!

:P

Zoe - Save the data dump

23:46

We the proletariat are forced to do Stack Exchange, Inc. 's bidding - no more! Rip out the privilege system and free the workers! Viva la revolution!

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