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6:04 PM
I'm off now - see you all later.
probably sounds stupuid
Hey @Moshe, still need help?
@TheOutOfStarsException - Hey, how was it? Yea, I'm up to the admin panel. Can you get on IM?
in Status Script Discussion, 11 secs ago, by The OutOfStars Exception
I need a license for the ThirdPlace library and the SEChatStatus script... any ideas?
@Moshe I should be on IM
@TheOutOfStarsException Yea, personally, I think licensing is stupid. If you want to give it away for free, do so. If not, don't. Use GPL or MIT, it's what many people use.
6:17 PM
I want these two to be open, certainly. But I want to make sure any changes to them are open also. I am thinking LGPL... but I know many people detest the GPL, so... I am unsure
Not sure.
@Moshe "Yea, personally, I think licensing is stupid." I totally disagree with that. If I find a useful piece of code somewhere and would like to use it, I hate it not to find a license anywhere. As long as there's no license, I have to assume "all rights reserved" and cannot use it. If there is a license, I at least know what the deal is.
@balpha agreed.
I'm thinking MIT
 * jQuery JavaScript Library v1.5
 * jquery.com
 * Copyright 2011, John Resig
 * Dual licensed under the MIT or GPL Version 2 licenses.
 * jquery.org/license
 * Includes Sizzle.js
 * sizzlejs.com
 * Copyright 2011, The Dojo Foundation
 * Released under the MIT, BSD, and GPL Licenses.
 * Date: Mon Jan 31 08:31:29 2011 -0500
6:21 PM
is /*! a standard for js comment blocks?
@balpha Fair enough, but isn't licensing silly if you're giving it away? I like sqlite's non-license.
I usually use:
@TheOutOfStarsException I don't know
@Moshe sqlite is public domain, but that doesn't work in all juristictions, if you want to be really really save
CC0 was created for that reason
6:23 PM
@balpha What, my governement can arrest/sue me for using your public domain code? BS
Status: Away – AFK until 19:20 UTC
@Moshe no, but if I say "I put X under public domain", and you use it, and I later decide I want to charge you for it, I could have some traction in court, because in Germany I can't give up my creator rights.
@balpha Ah, gotcha.
I don't know if this has ever actually been tested in court, but if you want to be really safe, you're at least running that risk
finally understands, hehe
6:32 PM
Hi all
Bye bye
@RebeccaChernoff - How far down on your list is MinimalOverflow? (Just wondering, not complaining.)
soonish! (ya know, I'm just going through and testing to make sure it isn't buggy - anybody can do that q:)
@RebeccaChernoff I know, I know, I've demonstrated a terrible capacity to debug here. But seriously, anything I can do, I would not be asking about here. Therefore, this is an unfair "scale" of my abilities.
@RebeccaChernoff what is q:? :d or :p?
6:44 PM
@balpha Consistently getting timeouts, lags on link, stylesheet and images not loading. Chat servers kinda sluggish all day. Known problem?
anyone else seeing that?
@RebeccaChernoff one second! :P
@Moshe I don't buy that for a second.
6:47 PM
Wait, what?
@RebeccaChernoff LOL
@RebeccaChernoff What don't you buy for a second?
is confused
13 hours ago, by Rebecca Chernoff
It doesn't really have anything to do with the language. Debugging is debugging. Different languages are just different syntax.
@TheOutOfStarsException gee thanks :P
6:48 PM
@TheOutOfStarsException BTW, that's not true. Different languages have different environments.
yeah but the concepts are the same
iOS development has several levels of debugging tools from the Console to the Debugger to Instruments etc
JavaScript has the Console and the web browser.
PHP doesn't have the console
PHP development has several levels of debugging tools from echo to the Zend Debugger to logging, etc
Well that's what I was asking about.
You know what?
...wait for it...
6:50 PM
@Moshe sure it does. echo, meet @Moshe. @Moshe, this is echo. You two will be good friends :-)
Also, in the case of css, anyone can go through and hit every page and look at every little detail. It is just a pain (;
Also, there's logging functions available in PHP
I have a whole PHP logging framework set up, very helpful
And yes, I was referring to the process/concept.
@Moshe, Rebecca and I are not trying to be mean / unkind. We're trying to help you translate your skill from iOS development to PHP / javascript / whatever development
Really. I swear :-)
goes back to commenting/debugging ThirdPlace
@TheOutOfStarsException I don't doubt that. is not being sarcastic
@RebeccaChernoff @TheOutOfStarsException :
Q: What debugging tools does PHP have?

MosheHow do you debug your PHP scripts? The only one I'm currently familiar with is echo. What other options are there for more in depth analysis of my code? (Coming from iOS I'm used to the Console, Debugger w/ Stack Trace, Instruments et al. What comparable tools are there?)

6:56 PM
low hanging fruit, lol, why did I bother answering? :-p
@TheOutOfStarsException heh
6 answers in 5 minutes! LOL
@TheOutOfStarsException Yep.
I should add a bounty :P
yawns Good mo...it's already 2? Dammit.
Add a bounty? Are you kidding?
7:07 PM
@TheOutOfStarsException yes.
Are there conventions for PHP constants?
Like that @Moshe
@TimStone Good mornafternoon
Indeed. :P
Wow @TimStone wakes up and suddenly three new people enter The Tavern
@Tim got some new socks, I see
7:14 PM
Welcome @NicolaiReuschling and @Josef! @rmontagud you'll need at least 20 rep to talk in here, you can get that pretty much with a meta question "Can I get enough rep to chat?"
@TheOutOfStarsException This is true. I have done it before...
Thank you for the warm welcome.
@Josef Sure. We're a rowdy bunch in here (usually) but we don't bite (that hard anyway)
@KlausByskovHoffmann and anyone else using ThirdPlace I found what was causing the events[i].fire is not a function, will have an update shortly
So I'm just browsing questions regarding user avatars on Stackoverflow but can't seem to find what I am looking for: Are all user avatar's gravatars?
7:21 PM
Hullo folks
@Pandincus hey there
@Josef Yep, they are.
@Josef Is your question, "Is every user's avatar served by the Gravatar service?". Nevermind @TimStone just answered
well... actually... okay. here's the story
Q: Can we use non-gravatar avatars?

Craig SandersIt would be nice to have the option to just upload an avatar rather than have to use some external service like gravatar. While gravatar may be convenient and useful, it's also a serious privacy concern because the operators of gravatar have basically got a web bug that allows them to track user...

7:23 PM
ah. interesting
@Josef sorry. please continue :-)
(: really too lazy to type atm
but okay... so I'm using the API to get to a user's avatar
the only thing in there is the email_hash which I can use to get to a gravatar
that works fine for most users
but every now and then there is a user complaining that he doesn't see his gravatar, only this gravatar-power-off icon
?d=identicon is your answer
(unfortunately I don't have a sample user, these are just comments/reviews I get in the Android market for my little flair-widget)
Oh wait, an actual "powered off" icon? Or some generic Gravatar?
7:25 PM
@TheOutOfStarsException gravatar.com/avatar/…
Q: How is the default user avatar generated?

alextanscIs there a name for the default avatars that are generated for users who do not assign one themselves? Not the avatar of the blank user, but the one made up of shards, shapes, and colours: Is there an online generator for something like that? See also: How do I change my profile ...

wavatar || monsterid > identicon > default
yep, that one
Shame on you for not knowing that @TimStone
7:26 PM
Second has a &d=identicon at the end.
@TheOutOfStarsException I didn't realize that there wasn't an extension on that URL :P
@TimStone This excuse fails to please me
oh I see
On a related note, @TimStone needs a real gravatar
@TheOutOfStarsException Like yours is real.
7:28 PM
(: allright, now I get it
Hmm, my avatar is the same with and without indenticon.
@TheOutOfStarsException Yeah, yeah, I look terrible and it's raining outside. I won't be taking a photo any time soon, and I'm too lazy to make anything else. ;)
@Moshe Don't ley @MichaelMrozek hear you say that my gravatar isn't real!
7:29 PM
@Nyuszika7H that's because you have a custom one set
awesome. thx @balpha
@TimStone I suggest this:
1 min ago, by Josef
(: allright, now I get it
7:30 PM
@balpha sockpuppets? In here? NEVER
(: allright, now that I don't get
@Josef reverse smileys have a special meaning in this room :)
SOCKPUPPET ALERT Josef is rchern's sockpuppet
uh oh
Reverse smilies?
7:31 PM
@Nyuszika7H I am not rchern's sockpuppet!
and oy.
I see
errr uhhhh oops
and what's this special meaning?
7:31 PM
@RebeccaChernoff LOL
@JoshsSocks I didn't know that yet :)
we should compile a list of domains that just redirect to some meta page
ah, so she makes them backwards?
7:32 PM
@balpha where have you been?

rchern Strikes Back!

Nov 12 '10 at 15:29, 2 minutes total – 21 messages, 6 users, 1 star

Bookmarked Nov 12 '10 at 15:34 by Yi Jiang

@RebeccaChernoff So you aren't a sockpuppet of yourself? :P
I better join a side before appliances start exploding. (;
@Nyuszika7H SockpuppetTooMuchRecursionException extends StackOverflowException
7:33 PM
I've seen Jon Skeet give a talk with a sockpuppet once, any relation?
UPDATE Users SET DisplayName='rchern\'s sockpuppet' WHERE Id=153011
> Java Rock Star at ZeroTurnaround (United States; European Union; Earth, TX...)
pff. it was at the stackoverflow dev days...
7:34 PM
@JoshsSocks It was from DevDays in London, I think.
Huh, interesting company location.
(: yep
Speaking of which, did Spolsky ever post that hilarious intro-video to DevDays?
wow. that was fast
7:35 PM
SOCKPUPPET ALERT Josh's Sockpuppet is The OutOfStars Exception's Sockpuppet, because The OutOfStars Exception === Josh.
...and how come there hasn't been another DevDays!
I'd definitely go
Q: «Devdays will return not until spring 2011», any news?

systempuntooutRemember Joel announcement posted June 24th, 2010? Devdays will return not until 2011 .. Instead of me doing everything, we’ll find some way for the community to help plan the agenda, especially when it comes to choosing speakers. And, ultimately, that probably means that we’r...

@balpha I cannot believe I have not see this before
@balpha Wow, that was fast
7:36 PM
@Nyuszika7H This is not a big secret:
Q: I am a sockpuppet, may I exist if I have a real purpose?

Josh's SocksI am a sockpuppet account of Josh, AKA The Unhandled Exception. I am going to help him test the XMPP chat integration system he's building. Am I allowed to exist? I promise to behave, and never leave Meta or Meta's chat. If so, may I please have enough rep to chat? EDIT BY JOSH: I have drawn a ...

Well, there's something coming this spring at least...
@TheOutOfStarsException Nice, it instantly got 2 upvotes after you posted it there. (+1 from me)
waves hands there is nothing coming this spring.
7:38 PM
@Nyuszika7H LOL, I know. It's hysterical
;-) DevDays was a blast. Got to hang out in Boston, got to meet John Resig, great presentations...and only $99. Sheesh!
7:49 PM
Q: Are there any plans to redesign the SO/Stack Exchange site stylesheets so they are usable from mobile devices?

StephenAre there any plans to redesign the SO/Stack Exchange site stylesheets so they are usable from mobile devices? Despite a style change, using SO from a mobile device sxxxxx axx. Wikipedia and wordpress have worked it out, why can't SO? To those who think the current situation is acceptable: How ...

How twitter works:
user image
WHO LOVES unicorns? I DO!
@JoshsSocks ME TOO!
7:55 PM
Just like the Atwood effect. If traffic on a site has spiked, I look to see what question Jeff tweeted.
@ChristianSciberras who lives for unicorns? For the love of unicorns!
Nobody pay any attention to my sockpuppet, he's just testing this:
I live for PHP and BGates. Soz mate.
Q: Chat audio enhancements

Klaus Byskov Hoffmann Screenshot / Code Snippet There's no meaningful screenshot available since this script plays sound. About When someone starts talking about unicorns you definitely want in on the action. You can now make sure to never miss another interesting chat about these fabled creatures by getting ...

@TheOutOfStarsException wow that triggered it also!
7:57 PM
@JoshsSocks of course it does... the post mentions unicorns ;-)
@TheOutOfStarsException - The mifi is misbehaving.
If anyone can see this, please confirm that my wifi works...
@KlausByskovHoffmann the correct answer is no we cannot see that
@RebeccaChernoff hehe :-)
8:06 PM
Anyone know why this isn't properly unsetting my session?
...else if($action == "logout"){

	$_SESSION['logged_in'] = "";
	echo "<h3>logged out</h3>";

The form shows, as it should, but the user is able to log in with bad credentials afterward
// If it's desired to kill the session, also delete the session cookie.
// Note: This will destroy the session, and not just the session data!
if (ini_get("session.use_cookies")) {
$params = session_get_cookie_params();
setcookie(session_name(), '', time() - 42000,
$params["path"], $params["domain"],
$params["secure"], $params["httponly"]
A: Python's "//" operator treated as a comment

Jeff AtwoodWas your question correctly tagged python ? We use Google code prettify, and default inference on python because it is a webby language and code blocks tend to be mixed with javascript blocks, html blocks, etcetera. We're working on an explicit override in cases where this isn't specific enough.

Python code is commonly mixed with HTML and Javascript?
@MichaelMrozek well, sure, if you're using google-app-engine and are not using django templates, you might end up with a mix of python and html
@KlausByskovHoffmann I realize it's possible; it hardly seems common
8:13 PM
@KlausByskovHoffmann I didn't use session cookies
Jeff isn't exactly a Python fan.
@MichaelMrozek no, it doesn't sound like the most common scenario, agreed.
@Moshe ok... it was just a shot in the dark
he probably doesn't know better ;)
@balpha I don't know better?
2 mins ago, by balpha
Jeff isn't exactly a Python fan.
8:15 PM
there are python fans?
@RebeccaChernoff Yes.
Not, me, but I know some.
shakes fist at @RebeccaChernoff
8:15 PM
@balpha Stop trying to make sense with your logical conversation flow ;)
@TimStone not after lunch, at least not in blue
@RebeccaChernoff Shush you, Python is great.
Speaking of lunch..
8:27 PM
Has anyone here heard of funambol?
@Moshe not until now
Oh well, I'm troubleshooting an issue with it.
Funambol 8 is annoying a client to update, problem is, the whole network there is a custom rig which I did not set up.
Ubuntu Server with a bunch of Windows Machines XP and 7
Funambol for Outlook is popping up on startup, asking for an update. Does anyone know how to stop the update nag without updating and risking compatibility issues?
@Moshe would you accept uninstall as an answer?
@RebeccaChernoff Nope.
that's no fun ):
8:41 PM
then you probably won't accept pkill funambol either
What do you folks have against Funambol?
@Moshe Nothing - I've never heard of it, have no clue what it is. q:
@Moshe nothing that works
(j/k -- never heard of it either)
joins the party I haven't either. :P
there's a party somewhere?
8:43 PM
@TheOutOfStarsException I don't know, I haven't heard of one.
Have you?
I have not :-(
goes back to work on the status script
If anyone has any alternatives, please let me know.
9:01 PM
Ruh roh.
Google Profile OpenID looks down.
At least it is for me.
...it's also my primary OpenID across the network.
night :)
test-id.org/OP/Sreg.aspx confirms no openID endpoint was found. :|
that's not a problem in your side @badpssockpuppet my friend reported that too
in /review shouldn't there be some kind of voting mechanism that allows reviewers to say no, that post is ok and remove it from the list once it has a few votes. There are quite a few posts there that would deserve such a vote (including a "low quality" post from SLaks).
It would make reviewing easier I think.
I think Benjol already asked for something like this. I'm of the opinion that it's not that big of a deal, but.
9:16 PM
@TimStone well, it's kind of annoying that the same posts keep coming up again and again.
and if I had already cast a vote that a specific post was ok (in my view) it could be filtered out subsequently (for me)
thus making my life as a reviewer easier
You want things to be easy?
@RebeccaChernoff d-:
You're particularly helpful today. ;)
@KlausByskovHoffmann Well, that generally means that there's not too much on the queue...which is a Good Thing™.
@RebeccaChernoff Heheh :p
9:23 PM
git commit -m "Through exercise of great muscular strength and willpower, I've swapped 'in' for 'out'. Go me. Login/logout works now."
I love it
I wonder where this "Your satellite signal is experiencing interference" screen is getting this music it's playing from...
@RebeccaChernoff Is there going to be a gold equivalent of the deputy badge? Otherwise you can forget everything I said about making reviewing easier... just leave it as it is :-P
not a clue
How about "Moderator"
9:31 PM
Heh ;)
How about "Wannabe moderator"
Noooo, no more flags left. :(
Anyone need a good laugh?
@GeorgeEdison Sure, we all do.
How's that for GPL competition?
9:46 PM
@GeorgeEdison EPIC WIN
I know... I should re-release all of my software under it.
I wonder if it's OSI-compliant... :)
@GeorgeEdison I'm changing the license of the unicorn sound script to that license right away.
We'll call it the 'UPL' :)
@GeorgeEdison An unicorn may find your stylized image offensive and sue you anyway!
Stylized image?
9:51 PM
@badpssockpuppet I know a few unicorns that are lawyers, indeed.
@GeorgeEdison Watch it! Don't act like you don't know.
Okay,... but I don't know :P
@GeorgeEdison The image in the link, of a unicorn, may offend various members of the unicorn race.
It's from @balpha's Unicornify page!
Nothing wrong with that!
@GeorgeEdison A likely story... stern look, murmer
bangs gavel
@GeorgeEdison That, is for me to decide, ... young man. glare ... Call the next witness. gavel bang!
Wait is gavel bang like #! ?
P!, kinda looks like it.
I added a FAQ.
10:00 PM
@GeorgeEdison I think you should add a footnote stating that no unicorns where harmed in the making of the FAQ
Good idea.
@KlausByskovHoffmann Indeed, my good sir. And if I get one more complaint about you - points at @GeorgeEdison -, I'll let the Unicorn foundation take your reps and eat them for lunch.
Take him away!!
Oh, come on.
@GeorgeEdison What do you think, you're Alice? You can't just defy a Court of Unicorn Law like that.
I'm what?
10:08 PM
@GeorgeEdison Alice in Wonderland.
Wait... what's that got to do with unicorns?
...and what's this about unicorn law?
I'm going to do the unthinkable:
^---- Get one of those.
At the end, the Red Queen of Hearts sentences Alice to beheading and she just shrugs it off, the whole court crumbles like the deck of cards it is.
@GeorgeEdison I'm sure the unicorns won't like it, but hey, the cops will.
10:21 PM
@GeorgeEdison - I owe you an apology for that last bit o' nonsense. I'm sorry.
@GeorgeEdisonI owe you an email, sorry, been busy! @Moshe sorry, a number of things came up, I'll be back in a little bit if you still need PHP help
Things just suddenly exploded around here :-p
Hear hear.
@TheOutOfStarsException - Basically, I just need to iterate through rows for data now...
10:41 PM
Does it really make sense to review posts with many upvotes?
They could need editing. Not to mention the fact that I don't trust everyone's up votes. :P
@TimStone yeah but still... An answer with 11 upvotes from a user with 87K rep stackoverflow.com/questions/4947620/…
Oh come on WwF... EEIIIOO shakes fist
If deputy is a silver badge epic should be gold badge and legendary a diamond badge... just saying...

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