Tavern on the Meta

Uniqueke kittean ate Unidoggy

4:00 PM

Lol

sd f

Simon Klaver

"Yes."
Where are the repeating characters?

bjb568

@SimonKlaver For spam and abuse, not crap.

If we wanted to get crap questions posted here, we'd need at least a dozen SDs because of rate limiting.

ProgramFOX

@SmokeDetector why

SmokeDetector

@ProgramFOX Post - Repeated character:

bjb568

Hand-holding isn't scalable. WSOIN may not of been a perfect solution, but it was scalable. Since the alternative is having essentially no guidance, WSOIN provided a positive effect.

Simon Klaver

4:02 PM

@bjb568 It probably warded off new users. While that may seem a solution, it does not help them answer their questions.

...which is what these sites are for, no?

ProgramFOX

@SimonKlaver Zero-width spaces.

Uniqueke kittean ate Unidoggy

Why???

It's a mod

Simon Klaver

@UniquekekitteanateUnidoggy Rules also work for mods.

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector ] Bad keyword in body: Help me identify this movie by Babs on movies.stackexchange.com

bjb568

@SimonKlaver No, it's for creating a repository of useful information to be found on search engines, not to answer all the crap questions by incompetent programmers.

@SimonKlaver If a user is warded off by seeing a huge compilation of useful guidance, we don't need them.

Honestly, I would have caught on to SO much faster if I had seen WSOIN.

Simon Klaver

4:07 PM

@bjb568 If users with new questions to contribute to this goal are warded off, then what?

hichris123

remember, most people don't read 1 paragraph. How are you going to get them to read 1 page+?

bjb568

@SimonKlaver They aren't.

Shadow Wizard

@UniquekekitteanateUnidoggy actually a non-mod added those spaces in revision #3

bjb568

@hichris123 If they can't read a paragraph, how can they possibly write a page of useful information?

Shadow Wizard

Uniqueke kittean ate Unidoggy

4:08 PM

lol

hichris123

@bjb568 You can't make someone read a paragraph on the internet. They can just ignore it - which I assume is often done.

bjb568

So, if they can't read, they shouldn't be here.

Shadow Wizard

@SmokeDetector ignore totally crappy but looks like the site let it live

SmokeDetector

@ShadowWizard Post ignored; alerts about it will no longer be posted.

hichris123

@bjb568 again, you can't make sure someone reads a paragraph. Unless you have a person standing right next to them, peering over their monitor...

bjb568

4:11 PM

People who are invested in the goal of the site will read.

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector ] Blacklisted website in body: Html - submitting form to Iframe makes it disappear by Adam on stackoverflow.com

Simon Klaver

@bjb568 Where is that goal actually described?

bjb568

In WSOIN…

Simon Klaver

@bjb568 ...which people would be interested to read after they knew of the goal. Which is in there.

Seems paradoxal, to only want to read after having read.

bjb568

In all seriousness, it's described in the first sentence of the tour.

Simon Klaver

4:13 PM

@bjb568 People actually read that?

It gives a badge for scrolling through.

Shadow Wizard

@bluefeet hey, can you please use your CM-fu powers to nudge the 2016 post here to the top? I flagged, as usual, but think it's better be done before the 6-8 [days/weeks/months/circle the correct answer] it takes for custom flags to be handled on MSE. Thanks!

bjb568

@SimonKlaver They should…

Simon Klaver

And one can interpret that in both ways we mentioned here.

@bjb568 Isn't that exactly one of the problems WSOIN would face?

Shadow Wizard

@SimonKlaver feature-request have the site send telepathic beam to know if the user really read the tour page.

going to develop such a beam

Uniqueke kittean ate Unidoggy

POST /read or something like that

Simon Klaver

4:18 PM

Or having to read it for at least 20 seconds or something. So people don't get the badge for just skipping through.

hichris123

@SimonKlaver Scrolling to the bottom of the page, to be precise.

bjb568

@SimonKlaver Sure, as would any piece of text on the internet, but so what?

Simon Klaver

@bjb568 Well, your reason for implementing it (or getting it back) is obstructed by that problem, and it also wards of potential helpful people. So it's better not to have.

bjb568

It may not be 100% good, therefore it's better not to have it?

It's still an emensly helpful resource for those of us who aren't doomed to fail.

Simon Klaver

@bjb568 It's below 0% good, so it's better not to have it.

@bjb568 It could be.

bjb568

4:23 PM

What's the negative?

Simon Klaver

It could also feel like being hit with a brick and getting slammed on a textbook.

Uniqueke kittean ate Unidoggy

Throws brick in tavern

bjb568

@SimonKlaver … only if you're doomed to fail anyway.

Simon Klaver

@bjb568 And what if they are doomed by having their morale lowered instead of a helpful hand reached out to them?

bjb568

Not A Real Problem

Simon Klaver

4:27 PM

A problem is a problem, regardless whether one thinks of it as one.

Especially if that one would rather not accept it as a problem to strengthen his/her argument.

@UniquekekitteanateUnidoggy Catches it and throws back.

Uniqueke kittean ate Unidoggy

noooooo

Simon Klaver

#rekt

@UniquekekitteanateUnidoggy I only just now GET what you mean by POST.

Uniqueke kittean ate Unidoggy

lol

bjb568

@SimonKlaver How is linking to a helpful resource going to discourage what would otherwise be successful users from using the site?

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

@Uniqueke? O_o

Uniqueke kittean ate Unidoggy

4:33 PM

yep

RUN THIS CODEZ:

$.post('/about/read', {fkey: StackExchange.options.user.fkey});

OR YOU COULD SCROLL!

Simon Klaver

> There are many useful resources, guides and tutorials out there - but if you're just slapping down links in lieu of actually trying to engage and teach, you might as well be linking to LMGTFY.

...which is highly demotivating.

Uniqueke kittean ate Unidoggy

$(document).scrollTop($(document).height())

Simon Klaver

@bjb568 I now sort of also start to understand your part of the discussion, due to this.

S.L. Barth

@UniquekekitteanateUnidoggy Finds out @UniquekekitteanateUnidoggy's brick is a Lego brick and starts looking for more.

Uniqueke kittean ate Unidoggy

NOOOOO

S.L. Barth

4:40 PM

@UniquekekitteanateUnidoggy Don't worry, I won't break you down.

Uniqueke kittean ate Unidoggy

Phew!

Simon Klaver

I will!

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector ] Blacklisted user: regex to convert www.evernote.com URL to use evernote protocol by Nguyen Phat on stackoverflow.com

Simon Klaver

sd k

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

@S.L.Barth I don't think he needs breaking down . . . to break down.

Uniqueke kittean ate Unidoggy

4:42 PM

@SimonKlaver nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

rene

@ShadowWizard we can create 100 socks ...

bjb568

@SimonKlaver So what? If somebody is asking something that can literally be solved by googling the question title, they shouldn't be here. LMGTFY 1) teaches them to google, 2) brings them to the solution, and 3) tells them that they should at least google before asking on SO!

S.L. Barth

@UniquekekitteanateUnidoggy Wait, I'll distract him with cake.

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

@bjb568 Is this about "WSOIN"?

S.L. Barth

flickr.com/photos/kosmassantosa/15509781144

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

4:44 PM

Then @BJB you're right, but you're wrong.

bjb568

@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. yup, read from chat.meta.stackexchange.com/transcript/message/4431592#4431592

S.L. Barth

@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. So @bjb568 is now in two states at the same time? He's a Quantum Cat! :-)

bjb568

:D

@S.L.Barth At first I thot it was a cake that resembled a lego cake, then I saw that it's just a lego cake. How disappointing.

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

So the thing is, in communities, there are things that should never look official. They should be a sub-cultural nuance among the moderation veterans. Think fat billionaires. It's never stated that a fat billionaire doesn't stay in jail, but it's a fact and happens everywhere. WSOIN is one such sub-culture.

So what @BJB says about LMGTFY and etc. are correct, but not in a meta post.

@S.L.Barth Ahem Schrodinger's cat.

S.L. Barth

@bjb568 When I first saw that picture, I thought it was really cleverly built.

@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. ... did cross my mind. But Schrödinger's cat was also an observer itself... at least when it was alive.

I think the real problem with our Help and Tour and subculture is that there is so much of it.

It's clear to us, who have been on SE for years... but imagine being new here.

bjb568

4:51 PM

DevDoodle solves this by integrating the guidance with the asking process rather than trying to redirect the user to a different page when they already have the URGENT problem, or, worse, trying to get them to read the guidance and improve their question after the fact.

S.L. Barth

Your mention of "guided asking" a while ago is, in fact, why I started looking at DevDoodle.

BTW you did solve the problem I experienced with the browser load since then, I was glad to notice that.

Simon Klaver

@S.L.Barth Distracted

S.L. Barth

@SimonKlaver :-) Mission accomplished!

I was shown that site by a fellow in the Lego SE chatroom. That site has some really impressive builds.

Simon Klaver

@S.L.Barth There is a Lego SE?

There are so much sites I don't know of.

S.L. Barth

@SimonKlaver bricks.stackexchange.com .

Simon Klaver

4:59 PM

There are dogs fighting outside, and sometimes they make the sounds of a Wookie.

bjb568

@S.L.Barth :D

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[ SmokeDetector ] URL in title: http://www.pci.tu-bs.de/aggericke/PC4e/Kap_III/Linienbr_3.gif by Hurr Jhon on stats.stackexchange.com

SmokeDetector

5:15 PM

[ SmokeDetector ] Offensive body detected: Win7 - Internet is really BAD by fl0000w on superuser.com (@bwDraco)

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

On-topic? Dunno. Don't think so.

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector ] Offensive answer detected: What locations am I likely to find sloe bushes? by Rory Asshole on outdoors.stackexchange.com

Simon Klaver

sd k

Shadow Wizard

@rene yup, that would make bluefeet really busy... :D

Uniqueke kittean ate Unidoggy

5:39 PM

!!/gotosleepitsalready130amandineedtogetupat6

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

@UniquekekitteanateUnidoggy licks ice cream cone

bummi

!!/report gaming.stackexchange.com/a/251369/93824

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector ] Manually reported answer: Is chat available to Xbox Live Free? by Jimmy big penis on gaming.stackexchange.com

6:20 PM

Why do I have twenty tabs open of the easter eggs in chat question?

2

bjb568

Uh… your GC is failing?

FlagAsSpam

No clue what that means.

rekire

is someone fit with apache2?

bjb568

Garbage collection (computer science)

In computer science, garbage collection (GC) is a form of automatic memory management. The garbage collector, or just collector, attempts to reclaim garbage, or memory occupied by objects that are no longer in use by the program. Garbage collection was invented by John McCarthy around 1959 to abstract away manual memory management in Lisp. Garbage collection is often portrayed as the opposite of manual memory management, which requires the programmer to specify which objects to deallocate and return to the memory system. However, many systems use a combination of approaches, including other...

rekire

I run in some client denied by server configuration: /home/.acme/ errors and I have no idea why

bjb568

6:25 PM

@rekire meh, too slow for me!

bummi

first seem VLQ with both it's abuse IMHO gaming.stackexchange.com/a/251379/93824

rekire

@bjb568 I'm running it on a raspberry pi I expect no wonders^^

bjb568

meh

rekire

ah! that script was using the apache 2.2 style which I know so I didn't found the bug I'm using apache 2.4

nicael

@ShadowWizard How do you suppose it's possible?.. To break the sorting order?

SmokeDetector

7:32 PM

[ SmokeDetector ] Email in answer: Penetration testing by ethical Hackers/Crackers should be trusted? by Demarco Turner Jr. on security.stackexchange.com

S.L. Barth

@SmokeDetector k

nicael

that feeling when you didn't expect the flag to go through

:/

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

@nicael You, my friend, are potentially screwed.

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector ] Few unique characters in body: Cubemap texturing issue (D3D11, C++) by user on stackoverflow.com

nicael

7:48 PM

@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. PLZ UNSCREWW

@nicael How?

I HAVE NO IDEA

Awesome.

WHY

8:44 PM

[ SmokeDetector ] Offensive answer detected: Chain skipping on new freewheel and chain setup - What went wrong? by joey rat bike on bicycles.stackexchange.com (@Unihedron)

nicael

NAA

nicael

8:57 PM

0

Q: The checkmark is freakin' large

Judge yourself. Compared to the size of the voting buttons and score, it's actually unusually (comparing to other sites) large. I'd consider this to be a bug. If it's not a bug, then it's a feature request.

Anomaly detected!

:D

:DD

10/10 make @bjb568 in charge of all design decisions

bjb568

:DDD

nicael

@bjb I've added your suggestion to the question.

Shadow Wizard

9:05 PM

@nicael CM's have the power to mark any answer as accepted, that's what they were doing in the last few years. As you can see, the OP of the "recent changes" faq was last seen three and half years ago, so it's not him... :)

nicael

Hm

Shadow Wizard

(dunno if they do it by "impersonating" the OP, or just clicking a button though)

nicael

Just though: Community user can, so maybe the CMs.

Shadow Wizard

@nicael nah, that's not related, in my opinion.

Community user, as actual account, got no powers at all.

It's all automatic processes.

hichris123

@ShadowWizard No, it records the vote as the dev. meta.stackexchange.com/posts/247647/timeline#vote_2167713