Tavern on the Meta - 2014-01-10 (page 3 of 4)

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3:03 PM

Hey, @qwerty. FYI my dad enjoyed the movie (The Prestige), but he hasn't given it to me yet =)

@jadarnel27 haha oy. Y U NO CHANGE UR AMAZON ADDRESS?

I did =)

...finally.

And you saw how unintuitive it is when you changed yours, right?

@jadarnel27 Yea... took me forever to figure it out.... So stupid that you have click on the little list settings button...

Yeah, very odd indeed.

It is not even documented anywhere...

3:15 PM

True.

:-(

@Shog9's description of how to use "unclear" and "too broad" is the opposite of how I intuitively think about it (if I'm understanding the explanation correctly, that is).

@jadarnel27 then either I badly botched the explanation, or you have a weird intuition

That's a good analysis of the situation haha.

too broad: you're asking too much. Break it up. Maybe a lot.
Unclear: not sure how much you're asking for, or necessarily even *what* you're asking for. EXPLAIN YOURSELF!

3:19 PM

You're example, about writing an order entry system - well-written question, but the OP is inexperienced. You're saying that should be "unclear"?

(referring to your "take 3" answer, @Shog9)

@jadarnel27 If you have yet to write your second function, asking how to write an order entry system is a bit much - that's too broad. here are some better examples.

Thanks, @Shog9. I hadn't seen that yet.

Oooh, 5 more rep to 2K!

@Shog9 Do you expect that new off topic close reason to be used while a question is still open? (See my comment here).

@hichris123 Wow, that's weird. A random question upvote right after you posted that.

2

3:26 PM

@Undo Completly random, of course.

Of course

Have fun rejecting stuff!

@Duncan uh, yes? You can't vote to close a closed question.

Me will!

Oooh, only 5,938 until I reach 10k! /hint hint

@Shog9 That was possibly the most stupid thing I've ever typed.

oh, answered you meant

3:27 PM

Yes, that's what I meant!

often, yes

(My 10k message was a joke, hope that was obvious)

110

Q: Close all the typo questions

Update 2013/03/06: I've been playing around in the Data Explorer (first time I've used it) and put together a basic query to help identify typo related posts a little better, improvements welcome: http://data.stackexchange.com/stackoverflow/query/edit/101573 select a.Id as [Post Link], a.Body f...

discussion stackoverflow low-quality-posts clean-up

Of course, implementing an order entry system is "too broad" for SO in general. But it sounds like your general guidance would be to err on the side of unclear (when it really is unclear what, specifically, the OP needs). Does that...sound about right @Shog9?

That's the sort of thing I'm aiming at, @Duncan ^^^

@jadarnel27 correct

3:29 PM

Alright. Sorry to add to the deluge of people asking you to personally clarify the close reasons =)

This makes more sense to me now.

"Too broad" is usually blatantly obvious. People will straight-up ask, "how do I write <describe or name some application that already exists with thousands of man-hours behind it>"

The unclear ones are where someone posts a list of requirements, and you can't really tell if they're doing it for context or if they actually expect you to buckle down and start coding up an app that meets them.

It's probably too broad, but since they didn't even bother to ask a question... it's unclear.

I'm not entirely convinced we aren't in the midst of fixing something that wasn't broken.

it was pretty broken

the fact that I woke up to a bunch of people handwringing on MSO about the loss of their "zero effort" close reason is evidence of that

it was never supposed to be used for that purpose

That's certainly true.

I think I've got my head wrapped around this now, @Shog9. Thanks. I just enjoy using the close votes queue, and wanted to make sure I continue to use it...correctly.

3:34 PM

I'm finding it much easier to review now. Not the least because I don't need to click twice to get to the reason I want.

Yeah, that's definitely kind of nice.

I see we have a new leader on the close vote queue leaderboard

for today that is

I suppose its the simplicity of the new scheme that had me worried.

Plus I was already seeing some questions being closed incorrectly with the new off-topic reason. But that's par for the course, I guess.

There is a scenario that comes to my mind, and I'm not sure it's super important.

So, in the new scheme should this be closed?

0

Q: How to create regular expression for subnet mask for validation

Could someone please help me out to give a RE for subnet masking 255.255.255.255 I have added the text input in GWT and trying to create validation for that but I am not able to get one. Please help.

Actually, bad example, because the request is confusing. What if that had been a very clear description of the regular expression the OP wanted?

3:39 PM

Still unclear, I think.

@Duncan that's a duplicate, I'm fairly certain

I guess I'm struggling with the lack of effort thing. I was guilty of thinking that was a reason to close.

But in general, if one were to request a small piece of code to solve a specific issue, would that be ok?

@Duncan if it was clearly-written, descriptive title, test data illustrating what he wanted... I don't see a problem.

With the exception of that monster for validating emails, no one is breaking their back answering regex questions

They piss folks off for some reason, but... meh.

By far the easiest rep around

@OGHaza easier than jQuery expressions? CSS selectors? Simple SQL?

3:41 PM

Question is asked, it is unclear. Question is closed for being unclear. The OP reads the close reason (ha!) and clarifies their question, making it crystal clear that the question is too broad.

Every area has its low-hanging fruit

True.

That seems like...sort of a poor user experience.

@Shog9 haha fair enough

The easiest way to get rep is to answer the simple questions.

3:42 PM

But I guess reading the Help Center in the first place would mitigate that.

@jadarnel27 That's why Unclear links to a big "how to ask" document now.

Doesn't it feel great to implement a backup system and have it save your bacon five days later?

@Shog9 Heh, right.

@Undo I'm sure it feels better than creating a backup system after the fact =)

@jadarnel27 Yeah, I've done that too :P

Yay for inline editing!

Me likes so much better than >2K editing.

3:46 PM

@hichris123 Oh, I had forgotten that horrific thing called page-reload-to-edit. Yeah, it's a lot better, huh?

@Undo Yep, and no waiting on the suggested edit page to check if it's approved. :P

Yeah, that's good too.

You don't get rep from it anymore, though ;(

> earned 134 reputation from suggested edits

Wow

Not that much rep.

Way less than the 1000 rep cap on edits. :P

3:47 PM

> earned 144 reputation from suggested edits

Heh.

^ for me

@Shog9 Any thoughts on the new close reason I suggested?. Supposing that isn't implemented, would that be "Unclear" as an alternative?

5 less suggested edits for me. :P

> earned 262 reputation from suggested edits

^ me on space

3:49 PM

@Undo How do you find out that info?

@qwertynl site.stackexchange.com/reputation

(if you're logged in)

Or just stackoverflow.com/reputation

@Undo Your spam question got locked by Animuson. :(

> earned 150 reputation from suggested edits

@hichris123 Noooooo!!!

yay

3:50 PM

That was getting me like 5 rep/day!

@Duncan unless we can make it tag-specific, I'm not sure it really improves on Unclear.

:P

Bad @animuson!

@animuson Go to the flag queue and I don't want to see you out of there until tomorrow.

And really, it's not an on-topic question for mSO?

mSO is like the place for any question not related to programming. :P

Or gardening. We don't take well to gardening questions either.

3:53 PM

I like that they fixed some of the collision review editing, like on here: stackoverflow.com/review/suggested-edits/3778405#./…

@hichris123 Wait until you hit 10k somewhere, and you get inline tag editing. Then the inline editing page feels clunky :P

@Manishearth Are you about?

@Duncan Nope

(or at least not here)

@Undo Sounds pretty.

Okay, I get this: •hichris123 has approved 6 edit suggestions and rejected 3 edit suggestions

And then 10 in the bar at the top. I rejected one that was already approved.

Weird.

@Undo people can still be pinged if they've been in here recently. Certainly Duncan is capable of seeing who is currently in the room as well.

3:58 PM

Who can change the accepted answer on CW questions. Is it just the very original poster?

@jadarnel27 Yes, but @Ma doesn't autocomplete. I think that means that it won't ping. Not sure.

@Duncan Yup

user image

Very slick

You can still ping when it doesn't autocomplete.

I stand corrected.

If the user has chatted in the room somewhat recently.

(Yay!)

3:59 PM

It's all...sort of fuzzy.

@jadarnel27 But what defines somewhat?

Exactly

The last time I read about it anyway.

Chat's weird.

I was just saying that your response to Duncan was both pointless, and possible incorrect.

@hichris123 Yeah.

It has to be

Otherwise it would be normal

And that would be bad somehow

4:02 PM

Oh. The threshold is 2 days, apparently.

So sayeth balpha.

Then it is true

That is much less fuzzy than I thought it was.

Just found a question that uses a link - file.comp.ku.com/.... Tried to change it to file.comp.example.com..., but that didn't work (page not found).

Seemingly example.com doesn't like subdomains.

Okay, someone really thought that they should edit a post just because their username changed? See here.

hey, congrats @hichris123 ... hit it on the nose!

4:15 PM

@Joe Yep, weirdly enough. 3K's my next goal (for CV's), but that's sometime in the feature. Thanks!

Just make sure you grab a few extra rep... when I hit 2k I briefly fell back when a question I'd answered got deleted ;)

Heh, hope that doesn't happen. :P

@hichris123 Sort of makes sense actually, but really the original poster should've linked to the post / comment or user (so we're not like "who in the world is 'Atigar'?"), but definitely too minor (anyway, question should be closed)

@Dukeling Me would close it, but I'm a new 2Ker (Yay!).

You can always flag to close.

4:25 PM

You're right, this question should be closed, as it's the recommend an off-site resource.

It's effectively a close vote

iirc doesn't even go to mods

Yep, or 10kers

sends it into the close pool

no, 3kers

@Joe 626 deemed helpful

or are you saying 'doesn't go to 10kers'

4:26 PM

^ This

626 helpful edits?

or flags

@Joe No, helpful close flags.

lol, that's rather a lot

of flags

@Joe @hichris123 and I have... a secret :P

@Undo That's only CV flags.

4:27 PM

@hichris123 Oh?

600 more of those type.

Wow

I never cast that many close flags :P

Well, I just get bored and have to use my 100 flags/day for something, right?

How...

user image

@Undo Where?

4:29 PM

is that another of the buggy delete-delete-delete

like the one that had 20 deletes

@hichris123 Here

@Joe Trying to find that one.

He probably cast one delete vote before becoming a mod. And then deleted it outright as a mod.

@jadarnel27 Oh. That deletionist monster!

Brown

That is all.

4:32 PM

Both delete votes were at the same time, though, weren't they?

Well...he is a moderator. You know how I feel about their type, @Undo.

or, perhaps not

@Joe No way for mere mortals to tell

@Oded Hey there! Long time no chat. Back from a vacation?

@jadarnel27 He already left :P

4:33 PM

Hmmm. Chumptastic.

Someone's going on a remove all the DOS from questions that aren't about DOS spree.

At least he said "brown" before he left.

@Oded You came back?

Yay @Oded came back!

Got pinged...

4:33 PM

Hehe

@Undo Delete votes aren't in data.se?

My @-ping brings all the devs to the yard.

@jadarnel27 took some time off between Xmas and New Year, but other than that working.

@Joe IIRC nope

Doing some stuff with the SE OpenId and the login pages. Can't tell you how much I am learning to dislike OpenId.

4:35 PM

OpenID is great for users!

@Oded Ah, so you've just been busy doing Actual Work™. Good for you!

@Oded Are you refactoring handleSuccess?

@Undo refactoring... HandleSuccess...

cannot... compute...

rofl

Not logical.

4:36 PM

I have never dealt with it, so I can't imagine how frustrating or not frustrating it might be =)

I did have to touch it though. 7 years of bad luck, unless someone else does.

Though I guess if it were easy, everyone would do it.

Shoot me some login credentials, @Oded. I'd be glad to remedy your bad luck =)

3

If it were easy, someone would have already done it :P

@jadarnel27 Then you can do all sorts of stuff, like reak havok on dev.SO, etc.

Oh no, I'm not the kind of guy that would wreak havoc on anything.

4

4:41 PM

@jadarnel27 I would, but I can't see your application in FogBugz.

Is it just me or are there way too many audits on the Edits review queue?

@hichris123 How many?

Havoc is not brown

@Undo Me just got like 3 in the past while, but I skipped quite a few.

It usually hovers around 5-10, but sometimes you can review 20 in one go just because of the shear volume of suggestions coming in.

4:42 PM

@Oded It's in the pile, trust me.

(okay, is this joke done now?)

No!

Well, see y'all later - end of day here for me. Have a great weekend people of the Tavern

You too, man!

Setting up a WordPress installation on a subdomain of another WordPress installation is not as easy as it sounds.

Well, the actual setting up is not that hard. Getting the rewrite rules to work right was the real problem.

The fact that I never work with WordPress was probably the bigger stumbling block, though.

I know I guy who knows a guy who happens to be me that probably could have helped.

Wow, it's easy to max on suggested edits.

4:57 PM

Yeah, I thought about bugging you about it =P What with your SO tags and all, @TimStone.

I worked it out though. Besides that, it's WordPress installed on Windows. So web.config rewrite rules, rather than .htaccess.

I don't know if they're super different, but.

shudders

That bad, eh?

Just the thought of WordPress on Windows.

Rebecca Chernoff

ha ha

Just imagine if it were WordPress on Windows on a GoDaddy hosting account.

5:02 PM

It's so bad that @RebeccaChernoff appeared to laugh at your situation. :O

Note: if you imagine that, you are just thinking about reality.

lol

I'm hurt by Rebecca's laughter. Hurt, I say.

@Duncan now yes

And Joe's, for that matter.

Rebecca Chernoff

5:06 PM

I was only laughing so the nightmare memories didn't make me cry (;

Ah, that makes more sense. So you've experienced this fun.

Rebecca Chernoff

5:34 PM

@jadarnel27 "fun"

I found a bug with backward smiley faces!

):

There's no equivalent of :D - it comes out as D:, which has a slightly different appearance.

@Undo Did you ever accept my bug-report?

status-repo

Ooooh!!

I wondered what you kept referring to!

5:41 PM

14 hours ago, by hichris123

Also, bug report: it's a histogram so the bars should be together and should Aldo say the limits, like 20-29.

Sure. Fixed in the next build.

:P

status-im-not-sure-if-it-was-completed

status-too-late-to-fix

status-sadface

(:

5:43 PM

10

Q: Deleted question deleted 'twice' by same user

See the following question: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/9545/who-in-the-software-world-do-you-admire-the-most It was recently deleted, but it somehow looks like it was deleted by the same mod twice.

bug deleted-questions

Why are you experimenting with the backwords expressions?

Current status: trying to open a 350MiB SQL file in a text editor

This one's better

@hichris123 Because @RebeccaChernoff is here!

10

Q: Moderator name appears twice on deleted post

I just saw a post (deleted) Crop portion of string with PHP [closed] which was deleted by Gordon♦ but is shown as: deleted by Charles, Gordon♦, Gordon♦ 1 min ago How is it that one person (whether a mod or not) can vote twice on the same post?

bug status-completed deleted-questions

5:44 PM

user image

@Undo I don't know Rebecca; haven't been here long enough.

@hichris123 rchern used to be a CM famous for backward smiley faces.

Ah.

q:

is basically :D backwards

in this font, at least

:p in this font doesn't look like a tongue, compared to :P at least

I can VTC questions when I'm not at 3K from the Low Quality Posts queue? Neat.

5:53 PM

@hichris you can 'reccomend closure'. I don't think that's the same as voting, but it does do something

@Undo Look here: stackoverflow.com/review/low-quality-posts/3779236#./…

Rebecca Chernoff

@Undo (:

It just says "Close".

Presumably it is flagging to close.

Rebecca Chernoff

although, I don't need to be here for you to use "proper" smileys! (;

5:54 PM

I never knew you could do this. Odd.

@hichris123 Does the button in the dialog say 'vote to close'?

@Joe is right. It's flagging it. Dumb me.

6:22 PM

I sometimes avoid voting to close questions outside the close vote review queue because I don't want them to get added to the queue.

@jadarnel27 Then someone else will close them, and it'll get added to the queue.

Size of close queue shouldn't be a factor in deciding to close or not close a question

either it should be closed, or it shouldn't

Just gimme a diamond, and I'll go through every question in the CV queue. :P

"Shouldn't be a factor" and "isn't a factor" are two very different things, @Joe.

I'm not saying it's right, I'm just saying it does, in practice, affect my voting behavior sometimes.

lol

Fair enough

6:35 PM

He stopped making sense right here:

> Google chrome emulator for apple Iphones.

Yeah, I don't know what that means.

I have clarified the question (hopefully).

7:17 PM

@hichris123 The close queue is really tiring, actually. It's hard to explain, but you get fatigued by it really easily.

(which is the reason it's sooooo big)

@Undo is your observation also true if you filter on a tag and specific close reason?

@rene I always do that. It makes it a bit easier, but not by much.

Hmm, ok I had the same feeling initially but since I filter on C# I find it rather easy going.

@Undo Meh, I have time, I'll burn though all 100K in no time. :P

I filter on asp.net, and I think every audit I've gotten has been a C (of maybe C++) question.

7:26 PM

yeah that is another plus @jadarnel27

in SO Close Vote Reviewers on Stack Overflow Chat, Dec 31 '13 at 19:39, by rene

I passed all my audits, even the python one...

Haha, nice @rene.

7:46 PM

hmm, I just faced this without any failure "
Review
You have failed too many recent review audits – looks like you might need a break. Come back in 7 days to continue reviewing."

Was I put on that explicitly for some non-audit bad review or what happened?

I'veseen some else here today hitting the same ban

At least, I do not recall any failed audit. Perhaps I rejected too many suggested edits and there is some quota triggering a ban over a certain percentage? :D Strictly speaking, I have not even done suggested edit reviews today except one.

OK, never mind, I will contact the Stack Overflow Team.

@Undo I would say that close queue is the most complicated one - most thinking involved. Most other things it's just 'yes/no', or at least for LQ/etc. there are few of them at any one time. Close there are lots of, and you have to make multiple complicated decisions at one time.

Hence fatiguing.

@animuson: are you around? Do you know anything about this ban?

8:03 PM

@LaszloPapp Got it meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/215671/…

especially meta.stackoverflow.com/a/215674/158100 answer from Bill the Lizard

@LaszloPapp Judging from your 'I rejected too many suggested edits ` I guess the robo-reviewers bite back

8:23 PM

What's the usual rule on excel questions?

ie, if someone asks for a formula (not VB) to do something

is that SO or SU?

@Joe if it's formula writing, I'd say it's on-topic on both

if it's macro writing, SO

Oh god, what have I done?

sudo: command not found

if it's "what is a contingency table", most likely stats.se

@Undo 8-)

Whew

alias sudo='sudo'

fixed it

I wonder who was so proud earlier today...

5 hours ago, by Undo

Doesn't it feel great to implement a backup system and have it save your bacon five days later?

8:33 PM

sudo Get me a coke zero

coke zero: command not found

:(

@Joe Worksheet formulae belong on Super User. Macros are case by case.

Is that rule explicitly stated anywhere?

(given two of you just disagreed...)

That's what I had thought

as well

Would you say a worksheet formula is programming or using a spreadsheet's inherent function?

@random sometimes it's more of the former

I didn't want to interfer but I also tend to send formula to SU and only vba bashing on SO

8:35 PM

@random I agree completely with you, but

why is there worksheet-function

?

@Joe existence of a tag merely means that some 1k5 user thought it was a useful tag

Because plenty of users will just post on SO because they only have that site loaded up

@Joe from the wiki Worksheet functions may be used in vba as well, returning output to a VBA function.

If you are asking about a formula you've written that doesn't return the result you expect, use the excel-formula tag.

You could say that worksheet-function is on topic on SO buf if tagged excel-formula it is an candiate for SU. But it is a grey area...

Just seems to me the tag wiki should be updated

with whatever the actual rule should be

@Joe There are 600 more questions on SU with that tag if you wanted to base it on numbers

8:42 PM

again, I don't disagree with what you're saying

just that it's not clear

and tag wiki seems like a good place to have that clearly stated :)

> Questions about using in-cell functions/formulas in spreadsheet software. - Super User

I've an pending edit on worksheet-function edited that in...

If =SUM(H5:J32) is considered programming then no wonder the state of it all

You have far worse in the regex tag

And an pending edit on excel-formula as well

@random Isn't programming just Input -> Process -> Output ? That function SUM it all up.

8:53 PM

Depends on what the question is. It's like if you're asking about how to set an automatically generated TOC in Word, it's going to be on Super User. But if it's about the underlying codebase that writes that generator, then it's on Stack Overflow. In both cases they'll be both asked on Stack Overflow because Google pointed them to the Ask Question page.

@rene: hmm, that would be strange. Hope a moderator will be able to clarify.

Approving/rejecting suggested edits isn't all about making sure you pass the audits. It's also about what real edits you actually let through.

3

@random: tell that to the robo reviewers.

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