Editing Q&A

I was trying to clarify if it was acceptable to edit questions and remove clutters, but leave other relevant stuff behind, like code indentation, grammar, bad titles or even the lac of relevant tags!

Jim Norton

But, I'm for editing to make SO better... so if the consensus is don't just remove "thank you" and nothing else I can live with that.

Zuul

I did reject some of your edits due to the mentioned reasons, others I've approved because nothing else was there to improve.

Jim Norton

9:28 PM

You'll notice that I also edit other things when they need it in a question.

Ok, I'm not taking anything personally, I just want to know what is acceptable and what isn't. I want to be helpful here.

Zuul

As mentioned by Bill the Lizard on is answer: "Note that "thanks" and other signatures are considered clutter, so it is a valid reason to edit a post."

Jim Norton

Agreed, but then others are rejected such edits as "too minor".

Zuul

So, yes, removing "thanks" is perfectly ok, but I did catch some edits that deserve a little more... and that was the reason for my question!

Jim Norton

Oh ok, I'm sure I missed a few questions that needed more than "thank you" removed.

My concern is that there is still debate on the issue and it depends on who reviews the edit.

As to the final outcome.

Zuul

Exactly what I was writting... the reviewer needs to spend some time looking at the original Q&A and the suggested edit before approving or rejecting it...

Jim Norton

9:34 PM

Hi @MooingDuck.

Zuul

I see many approved edits, that in my personal opinion, shouldn't have been approved. But hey, so many users, so many edits... one does what's possible :)

Mooing Duck

@JimNorton I also found several meta posts saying that removing "thanks" is considered minor under the assumption that there is always more that could be improved, which I disagree with.

2

Also they justify it by saying it would flood the active tab, but that's just evasion, and not a valid defense.

2

Zuul

@MooingDuck, exaclty! there are cases where a single word is all there is to be edited (removed/improved).

Drise

@MooingDuck I could use your input on my question. You've always helped me out, and now is another one of those times.

6

Q: Editing posts that contain salutations

There are numerous posts on meta about editing questions with Thank you. Thanks in advance Thank you, Sean Please help me!! im such a noob sorry for takin ur time and many of them seem to conflict each other. In my opinion, these edits are not too minor, even if that is the only thing wrong...

Jim Norton

It seems like this is an area that needs to be clarified so that the "consensus" is faithfully applied by all edit reviewers.

Drise

9:37 PM

@JimNorton The irony: Look at the edit to the question.

Mooing Duck

@Drise you don't appear to need me. I saw it, and voted on some answers

Jim Norton

@Drise Lol it didn't go unnoticed.

Drise

@MooingDuck I'd like your input. You tend to be fairly level headed and clear thinking.

Jim Norton

I know it is an issue, because last Friday I racked up something like 200 points from edits, most removing thank you, but a good number going beyond that. Now this week it's all changed.

Drise

@JimNorton It seems to be a flood of "Thank you" this week

I love one that I got: "Please aid!"

Jim Norton

9:40 PM

@Drise Yeah I saw that one was rejected. It should be a given that aid is being requested.

Bottom line, I'm a relative noob here on SO and just want to be sure I doing what's best for SO. And I'm confused about what this is.

Drise

Grr. I have to go take an exam. Be back in an hour or so.

Mooing Duck

@Drise Your question is good, the answers that needed comments have comments. I voted, but I don't really have words to add.

Jim Norton

@Drise Good luck Drise

Well thanks for the invite Zuul. I'm going to run along. Thanks for asking the question, I hope it helps quell some of the debate.

Zuul

@JimNorton There goes two! I too find myself confused as to accept or refuse some edits... one word being changed, like on my earlier question, the title was edited from "aprove" to "approve"! Why? Why?

@JimNorton See you around! tks for the presence and allowing me the clarification.

@Drise I just saw your question now. It seems that the general consensus is that removing clutters from questions isn't a valid edit. On the other hand, moderators say that's pretty valid if its the only thing to improve on the question...

Hard to understand this it is :)

There's the need of a guidebook for edits! I think that a better FAQ for this issue filled with examples would actually help clarify and improve what's being done.

@Drise I was reading the Shog9♦ answer.. he kinda has a point there :)

Drise

10:53 PM

@Zuul He has a point and at the same time he doesn't.

Zuul

11:09 PM

@Drise Well, I've been reading many meta Q&A about this, and there's no consensus between high rep users and low rep users..

High rep users seem to dislike small edits, perhaps because they are so tired of them all!

Drise

@Zuul He seems to be intentionally vague, or promoting that we should tolerate crap. From my perspective.

Zuul

Low rep users seem to believe that those small edits are relevant improvements.

@Drise From my perspective, it all comes down to the remaining of the contents...

Drise

I suppose why I'm also frustrated is that I'm now suspended from editing for a week.

Zuul

@Drise If we've got nothing more to improve, lets cleanup "Thanks", etc... But if something else exists that can be improved, I will definitively reject the edit, and in some situations, I press the "improve" button :)

Drise

@Zuul All of the posts I had edited were literally posted minutes ago. I tried to filter as much as I could as it came in, which I feel is a big deal. So it just doesn't sit there and look ugly.

Zuul

11:18 PM

@Drise Yap, frustrating to be suspended, and unfair since many edits get approved on the same circumstances... But one must realize that there's tons of editors / revisers, and it's hard the development of a "system" that's perfect for all. One step at a time and we'll get there :)

Drise

Robert is going head to head with Shog

Zuul

@Drise The new revision system is just that: NEW! Let it pass and become just "revision system" and better days will come.

@Drise I'm mentioning this, because before this system get placed, I had about 120 suggested edits pending every day... some over 10 hours. Now, with the new system, there's up to 10 suggested edits pending.

Drise

@Zuul So I don't see what's with this whole "backlog" of edits that are wasting everyone's time. If there are only 10 edits pending... I'm really confused then.

Zuul

11:33 PM

@Drise The number got reduced because the system was improved as to not present to the same user edits that he already saw, but essentially because there's much more users reviewing them.

@Drise As far as my understanding goes...

Shog9

11:46 PM

oh, hai

Zuul

@Shog9 hai there!

animuson

Meow :3

Shog9

Aww, @GEOCHET left? That rule was written specifically for him

For those following along at home:

Blog - Stack Exchange: The Great Edit Wars

Jeff Atwood on March 03, 2009

Alas, Stack Overflow has fallen prey to that dread disease that plagues all wiki systems: The Edit War.

We’re not exactly like wikipedia, because we are a hybrid system, but it’s worth scanning the official Wikipedia definition:

Edit warring is the confrontational use of edits to win a content dispute. Administrators often must make a judgment call to identify edit warring when cooling disputes. Administrators currently use several measures to determine if a user is edit warring.

The most common measure of edit warring is the three-revert rule, often abbreviated 3RR. The three-revert …

Blog - Stack Exchange: In Defense of Editing

Jeff Atwood on April 07, 2009

Editing is the backbone of Stack Overflow, and probably (along with the reputation system) one of the single most important distinctions between Stack Overflow and “just another forum”.

What’s so special about editing? You might as well ask what’s so special about editing on Wikipedia? Uh… everything?

As it says in the FAQ:

Like Wikipedia, this site is collaboratively edited. If you are not comfortable with the idea of your questions and answers being edited by other trusted users, this may not be the site for you. …

244

Q: Should 'Hi', 'thanks,' taglines, and salutations be removed from posts?

I edit a lot of posts every day. I often run across posts with 'Hi' and 'Thanks' on the top and the bottom of the post respectively. I also run across things like: --User Should these items be removed during the editing of the post by an editor?

discussion editing etiquette signatures

Zuul

@Shog9 yeah, @GEOCHET wasn't much in the talking mood.

Drise

As it says on the sidebar of every edit page, here’s what makes up good editing practice as we see it on Stack Overflow:

Fix grammatical or spelling errors.
Clarify meaning without changing it.
***Correct minor mistakes.***
Add related resources or links.
Always respect the original author.

Zuul

11:50 PM

@Shog9 That question has been much heralded :)

Drise

sigh Markdown always hates me.

Shog9

@Drise there's been a rather severe split in philosophy since the early days of SO: those who think edits should only be used for trivial changes, and those who think any edit that improves the post is a good one - the bigger the improvement, the better the edit.

Official policy has been to take the middle ground.

Personally, I'd much rather spend 5 minutes reviewing a substantial edit for technical accuracy than 3 seconds approving an edit that doesn't make a substantial difference in the overall quality of the post.

Drise

@Shog9 I see one problem with your statement: think. People shouldn't have to decide for themselves, they should be able to know and refer to a definitive source.

Shog9

IF ONLY YOU COULD EDIT IT!

(har blar har)

Drise

@Shog9 I'd also like to point out the irony of the edit to my question.

Zuul

11:55 PM

@Shog9 I agree with your point of view, but shouldn't be some preventing measures as to avoid the overflow of small meaningless edits?

Shog9

@Drise That's a pipe-dream. This is English we're talking about - there's a whole site on SE dedicated to it, and endless controversy.

@Zuul Well, for suggested edits there are - you can't even submit a body edit of < 6 characters.

user102937

It's OK. I just need to make a flowchart.

Drise

Also, is there a way to get un-suspended, besides the obvious "wait a week"?

Shog9

@Drise Uh, that would be it. A week from your first rejection.

Zuul

@Shog9 The whole debate comes from the fact that some of those small edits get approved, and others don't... appears to be no consensus on this at all! Some approve the removal of "thanks" <- 6 chars, others don't.

Shog9

11:59 PM

@Zuul Yup. Surprise - SO isn't a hive-mind, and different people have different opinions on what's correct.

user102937

My rule is "If it makes the site and the Internet better, it's a good edit." Of course, that just leads to "How do you define 'better'?"

user102937

One way I define better is that the rules should be as simple as possible. It shouldn't require a flowchart to figure them out.

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