Sugarcube Corner

8:40 AM

Saw the "trailer2 for the new season premiere.

Torches&Pitchforks

I am seriously beginning to think that the only solution now is to remove Starlight altogether. We are far beyond the point of no return.

S1:
premiere: about the mane six and world building / Luna
finale: about mane six and expectations

S2:
premiere: mane six / world building
ending: world building / cadence

S3:
premiere: "Twilight", but the message is "you are not alone". Furthermore, the episode was cut, so we don't know what the original script was.
ending: ok, focused on Twilight but also on her friendship

S4
premiere: officially focused on Twilight, but actually about her and her friends
ending: see above

S5:
premiere: about Starlight. Fluttershy gets a minor role, but in the end some random side characters saves the…

Has this become "My Little Starlight" and I didn't notice it?

oh, another list

Yep, I'm felling very "Twilight" today. List will rule.

S1
premiere: minor song, but it is also first episode ever
ending: has song
S2:
premiere: has song
ending: has song
S3:
premiere: has song
ending: has song
S4:
premiere: has song? must check again
ending: has song
S5
premiere: has song
ending: has song
S6
premiere: no song
ending: no song

expecting no song for S7 premiere too.

Oct 26 '16 at 9:43, by Derpy

I was thinking on what Starlight's talent was supposed to be in the first place. Weirdly enough, making things go against their nature seems to be the most appropriate answer.

Had this power become so strong it now goes beyond the 4th wall and influences the series itself?

(oh, and btw, I will avoid commenting how hearing Twilight saying those "praise words" in the premiere felt. Yep, "Behold Princess Starlight, Holder of the Six Element, Perfect pony, Mary Sue extraordinaire")

Derpy

9:31 AM

@b_jonas ^ April is coming, previews / teaser trailers are releasing. Time for me to start the ranting.

Also, "Celestia hear my plea. Please, in name of Equestria, please, don't let the writer come out with the idea that Sunburst is Starswirl".

Shadow Wizard

9:44 AM

@b_jonas pre-skiing? What is this? Anyway, glad you had fun... personally not into ski and never even tried. Was only few times in a snowy place, we got very few in Israel. :)

b_jonas

10:55 AM

@ShadowWizard Pre-skiing is still skiing, but not the real skiing holiday of the winter. It's shorter, and useful to prepare or warm up for the real skiing.

@Derpy Yes, I noticed. There are trailers of S7 episodes (probably of the opening two-parter) that are out there, and that I don't want to watch, so I have to be careful with th spoilers.

Derpy

@b_jonas "spoilers". Hard to call those "spoilers". They just show the episode premise / focus.

And, obviously... it is the same of the latest 5 two-part episodes

b_jonas

11:12 AM

@Derpy Yes, I also complained about missing the songs.

@Derpy Yes, and those are exactly what I want to avoid. And apparently it might not even be a two-parter.

Derpy

11:46 AM

@b_jonas "it might not even be a two-parter." ?

b_jonas

12:07 PM

@Derpy Since I haven't looked at the spoilers, I can't tell for sure. But mlp.wikia.com/wiki/Episodes,_films,_and_shorts lists two different titles for S7 E1 and S7 E2, whereas the opening two-parters E1 and E1 in each of the six previous seasons had a single title and were just suffixed with "Part 1" and "Part 2" or something.

Derpy

@b_jonas Let's hope then. Maybe they have understood and the real premiere is ep 2-3

b_jonas

@Derpy I don't think E2 with E3 is a two-parter either, because the E2 title doesn't say "Part 1" either.

I don't see why they would always need a two-parter though. Some stories can be told just fine in a single 26 minute episode.

I've been watching a lot of Phineas and Ferb lately, and it has a really variable length. Most of the stories are half-episodes, so two of them are packed in 26 minutes, sort of like in the original PPG. The 13 minutes is usually enough to show what Phineas and Ferb and their friends are doing today, Doofenshmirtz's evil plan for today, Agent P defeating the evil plan (or sometimes just waiting idly as it defeats itself), and why Cadence fails to bust Phineas and Ferb.

There are a lot of single 26 minute long episodes (double-half) though, a few double episodes and a few one-and-half episodes, and there are a few pairs of half-episodes that show two closely linked stories like "Just for Sidekicks" with "Games Ponies Play" does in MLP.

And there's also a film or two.

Derpy

1:11 PM

@b_jonas Well. The two parter episodes used to:

- feature more songs
- have more world building
- include the mane six as a whole.

lately, none of these point has been fulfilled and I am really starting to fell that a "mane six adventure" has been missing for too long.

Yep, there is the movie coming, but that shouldn't mean that the main series should now focus on a single character (and keep giving it very poor writing)

b_jonas

1:37 PM

@Derpy I'm not sure that any of that is connected to being a two-parter. The opening and closing episodes often featured more songs and always had the mane six, but the episode with the best songs was S3 E13, which wasn't a two-parter, and a lot of episodes in general include the mane six as a whole.

Derpy

@b_jonas You meant the finale of the season that was cut in half because of some budget/contract renewal issues. That episode was supposed to be a two parter :P

b_jonas

@Derpy Maybe, but I still don't think being a two-parter is relevant. The opening and closing episodes were usually big flashy stories that often changed the state of the world in a visible way and that were used to sell the series or leave a good impression if that's what people remember. That makes sense for a while, and it might be easier in two-parters. Yes, that's no longer what opening and closing episodes do, and S5 E18 might be the most obvious episode that shows how it's changed.

But I wonder if there are good reasons to change a series after this many seasons. For an already successful series, you no longer need to put all the flashy stuff in the opening episode of later seasons, because that's no longer how people first meet the show, and you no longer need to go out with a bang just in case this season is the last time the show gets funding.

I'm reminded of the case of Harry Potter. JKR wrote the first four books in such a way that they can be read stand-alone, so you can make sense of the story of that book even if you haven't yet read the other volumes. This helps, because indeed I have read Goblet of Fire (book 4) before Prisoner of Azkaban (book 3). This happens with many other book series by the way, and Kastner explains how this is necessary in the preface of Der kleine Mann und die kleine Miss.

But starting from the fifth book, JKR no longer worried about this, because the series got so famous that every reader would know there are four prequels, and the books were sold so much that every reader actually had the opportunity to get their hands on the first four books. That's a very rare case, most series don't have such a luxury, even when they are long.

And it's not like MLP has stopped making epic stories that change Equestria forever, they just don't always put them to season openers or finales. They might even be doing that too much, leaving too little time for peaceful little slice of life episodes where the fate of Equestria isn't in stake.

The part of your complaint I can understand is that there is too much focus on Starlight Glimmer and that their story is taken to the wrong direction. Yes, that is a valid complaint.

Derpy

2:05 PM

@b_jonas I said that before. MLP was crafted with a purpose - giving young watchers a model of values and "moral". It spoke about bullying and other thematic that are pretty common in schools to give some values. It avoided stereotypes so overused in many other animated or live actions series aimed at young watchers.

It managed to avoid things like "no boyfriend? you are a looser", "try to keep your weight under 30kg", "only dresses you should wear are branded ones", "follow the pack at any cost" and so on.

for these reason and the fact that it managed to have a refreshing sense of humor for once not based on "adult/toilet" jokes like other shows (think about all the "Griffins" style series) managed to make it look different and probably that is the cause of its popularity.

Not just a "for kid" show like (for example) Dora the Explorer - something a grown up would become pretty bored of quickly, but a show that could provide something that was "missing".

Laughter, fun and for once a cast of "good" characters. Yep, you see the occasional bully but the focus is still on showing why such behaviors are bad instead of the "fight for prevalence"

In a way, MLP did indeed follow the principles of a japanese shonnen anime:

Friendship
Effort
Victory

Focus on the Friendship between the characters, have them show Effort to overcome a difficulty, and show them Victorious in the end.

yep, MLP obviously didn't had all the fighting (cif: Dragonball, Naruto, One Piece)... but in the end that was one of the points that made it different.

A "shonnen without fighting"

b_jonas

I don't know much about what you're talking about, because I don't watch anime, nor many other TV shows, but ok.

Derpy

because of this, the premieres/finales always felt to me as the perfect places to empathize those bonds of friendship. Since they start to focusing every single one on Starlight I fell that content has been missing.

See S5 finale: all the time I was hoping that the time travel chaos had left some passages open so that in the last scene (the bare land Equestria one) the alternate mane six would have come to join the original Twily because they still felt some sort of bond.

what I got instead was a Ghost of Christmas future scene (at least the second version got Luna singing...)

I fear that with so many members of the old staff now gone, they are now trying to fit this new "Starlight character" in the show as they can.

Sadly, it also seems that they are currently thinking that the best way to make the character fit is to make it popular by making it "look cool"

so, they are throwing in anything they can to make the character a winner, a leader...

problem is... I never followed the series because I wanted "leaders" or "winners"

b_jonas

2:24 PM

@Derpy The primary way they're trying to make him look cool is power inflation: he seems to be a more powerful wizard in most areas than Twilight or any other pony except maybe the princess sisters. That does sound bad, but then many other fiction media has dealt well with power inflation.

Derpy

@b_jonas again, it is not just power inflation. Sunset managed to "overpower" Midnight by pulling out a never-seen-befor-and-I-didn't-even-knew-I-was-able-to Daydream form, but it still felt many degrees of magnitude better than what I saw so far with Starlight.

b_jonas

@Derpy Right.

Derpy

They seem to be trying to avoid to make Starlight look like a Mary Sue. She does mistakes, and that is good. It would be very good actually... if then also remembered to write in some sort of character development or her learning from those mistakes.

I said it before but I will repeat it again. The character most evident flaw right now is pride. Pride justified by the constant need to think that she would lose all again if she doesn't match some expectations but still pride.

I would be very welcoming in having her as a 7th element if they want to go in that direction...

but them please, turn her in the element of humilty and give her a last two parter to realize what her error was all the time.

Make her do that extra step that Sunset did from the start.

Show me that she is worried about her past because she felt many suffered because or her actions instead of her felling that SHE may suffer and be left alone if others discover her past.

Oh, and please... If you do... The "mischievous eyes" and "evil face" she keeps doing all the time was pretty good. In season 5, when she was supposed to be "evil".

If I am supposed to like her, make her smile more. Ponies looks cuter when they smile, and Pinkie knows that well.

Derpy

3:06 PM

on an unrelated notice, I just realized...

^ this is the "Party Girl" npc in Terraria.

She sells Confetti cannons, balloons, candies and so on.

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