Tavern on the Meta

Journeyman Geek

14:00

you should be using burner phones

Luuklag

@JourneymanGeek probably also highly discouraged

Journeyman Geek

then breaking the simcards

Luuklag

untill recently our PM was still using a Nokia

Journeyman Geek

then feeding the phones to mongolian death worms

Tinkeringbell

@Luuklag My sympathies. Or would that be empathies?

Journeyman Geek

14:00

@Luuklag I made a lot of noise about it

Shadow The Kid Wizard

@JourneymanGeek and burning the worms?

Luuklag

And my father in law always had a blackberry while working for the ministry of defence. Those were the only phones deemed secure enough, well after they went out of buisness

Journeyman Geek

no, feeding the worms to giant eagles, then blowing up the eagles.

DialFrost

Quick question how do I make a SEDE query

Journeyman Geek

@DialFrost there's a guide on it

Tinkeringbell

14:01

@DialFrost SELECT * FROM *.

Shadow The Kid Wizard

@Tinkeringbell emptins

Journeyman Geek

@Tinkeringbell twitch

Tinkeringbell

@ShadowTheKidWizard Oh, maybe that's a nice word for it too yeah. As it is kinda empty.

Journeyman Geek

did you learn to write queries at my last job? :D

@DialFrost data.stackexchange.com/tutorial

start here

Tinkeringbell

@JourneymanGeek Oh no, that was a short horror story.

Shadow The Kid Wizard

14:02

@Tinkeringbell think it's pain killers :D

Tinkeringbell

Creative writing excercise ;)

Mithical

@Tinkeringbell result: archive.org/download/stackexchange

Journeyman Geek

@Tinkeringbell I for one was horrified

Tinkeringbell

You're easy to scare though.

Shadow The Kid Wizard

@Mithical isn't it broken? ;)

Tinkeringbell

14:03

I don't think that'll automatically get me a passing grade.

Journeyman Geek

@Tinkeringbell I've seen things!

Tinkeringbell

@JourneymanGeek ... Exactly.

Easy to scare :P

"Oh no, it was a ghost/UFO" :P

Journeyman Geek

lol

that dosen't scare me

long running queries

Tinkeringbell

Those are lovely.

Shadow The Kid Wizard

@JourneymanGeek yeah, not knowing if it will ever actually finish running, throw error at you, or just be stuck for all eternity.

Tinkeringbell

14:08

Especially when you call the boss "None of the POS are working anymore, because someone did an empty query on the entire database. Can you come reset right now as customers can't pay" and his answer is basically "I'm doing something else right now, I can't.". Yet at the same time he insists that I can't just kill windows explorer in the task manager to fix everything...

Journeyman Geek

@ShadowTheKidWizard or lock up the database pr just die randomly 12 hours later

DialFrost

quick qns again: what's the diff btw excerpt and wiki?

for tags*

Shadow The Kid Wizard

@Tinkeringbell or Update Users Set Name='Foo;` forgetting the "Where" clause...

Luuklag

@Tinkeringbell I recently got a call from our IT dept, how I managed to kill of their MDM

Journeyman Geek

short version, long version

Mithical

14:10

@DialFrost Excerpts provide usage guidance, wiki provides more detailed information on the topic.

Luuklag

I apparently just force closed their MDM proces on my MAC and send things haywire that way

DialFrost

@Mithical excerpts are the shorter ones that appear when you hover mouse over tag right?

Mithical

yeah

Shadow The Kid Wizard

@DialFrost what's qns?

SPArcheon

@Luuklag ...you wrote MDM, I read that as MMD. Too much Future Tone.

DialFrost

14:10

@ShadowTheKidWizard question

Tinkeringbell

@Luuklag I maybe have to clarify: If the boss could be arsed to come by and try to fix stuff, this (killing windows explorer) was also often his one and only step. So I really don't get him being all precious about it.

Shadow The Kid Wizard

@Luuklag sounds like they admire you. :D

Tinkeringbell

And did I ever tell about the time the server got hijacked by a Russian porn site? XD

Journeyman Geek

@Tinkeringbell so... it was an improvement?

2

Shadow The Kid Wizard

@DialFrost in what language? ;)

Luuklag

14:12

@Tinkeringbell haha lol

Tinkeringbell

@JourneymanGeek I mean, it tells you something about what he was doing to those computers in the store, and it was probably worse than killing windows explorer XD :P

SPArcheon

Shadow The Kid Wizard

hey! I should be getting those. :(

Luuklag

We had a wordpress site recently serving malicious content to some random visitors. My coworker was quick to pull that offline though

SPArcheon

also, one of the two stars is clearly Shadow.

Shadow The Kid Wizard

14:12

@SPArcheon duh

:D

Tinkeringbell

duh.

DialFrost

@ShadowTheKidWizard singlish

SPArcheon

Who gave the other one? Confess now and you may still repent.

Shadow The Kid Wizard

@Luuklag but how this happened?? lol

@DialFrost how you say "Hello" in this language?

@SPArcheon you! :D

Luuklag

@ShadowTheKidWizard probably something that wasn't secured enough, some standard password probably

DialFrost

14:13

@ShadowTheKidWizard sup/wassup/hi/*nods up*

Luuklag

like admin admin or smth

Shadow The Kid Wizard

@DialFrost that's a really long word, I'll stick with just "hello".

:D

DialFrost

hehe

Btw issit possible to tell if a tag has an excerpt in the query, I can't find anything on it

Shadow The Kid Wizard

Or maybe just use the good old ♥

@DialFrost just check what fields the Tags table has.

If there is field for excerpt, you can see it. If not, you can't.

@Luuklag oh, so it was hack, thought bug on your side.

Luuklag

@ShadowTheKidWizard yeah probably

Shadow The Kid Wizard

14:17

@Dial ^

Join with Posts to get the contents, or if empty/null it means no except.

Journeyman Geek

hm

@DialFrost are you trying to use SEDE to find tag wikis without exerpts or wikis?

DialFrost

@JourneymanGeek without exercepts mainly but ye ig

@ShadowTheKidWizard ????? join with posts?

Shadow The Kid Wizard

@DialFrost yes

Journeyman Geek

@DialFrost its going to be a pain and a lot of work. Probably worth thinking about, scoping out and getting help as you do it

DialFrost

In code pls :P, I've never used a SEDE query b4

Shadow The Kid Wizard

14:19

@DialFrost well, it's not trivial, but you should start somewhere if you plan to do it yourself.

Just read any basic SQL tutorial and you'll be good to go.

DialFrost

@ShadowTheKidWizard that's not how I work :3

Journeyman Geek

@DialFrost it feels like you're trying to get someone else to!

Shadow The Kid Wizard

I'm pretty sure there are already queries on SEDE to find tags without excerpts, you can just search for those and run them.

Or ask someone here to write a query for you. :D

DialFrost

@JourneymanGeek Partially because I don't understand SQL at all and I'm very dumb

@ShadowTheKidWizard I tried there's too many too search for :(

oh wait nvm

Shadow The Kid Wizard

@DialFrost well if it's important for you, just keep looking until you find. If not, probably for the best. :)

I guess you're doing this for a badge.

Journeyman Geek

14:22

@DialFrost there's a certain value to biting off as much as you can chew

its neither a marathon nor a sprint

Shadow The Kid Wizard

@DialFrost as my wife keeps telling our daughter: "If you'll say enough times I am dumb you'll eventually believe it and others too".

She's using it as a shield whenever she makes a mistake.

SPArcheon

@ShadowTheKidWizard courtesy of SD.

DialFrost

@ShadowTheKidWizard ?

SPArcheon

decent unless you try to focus on the hand position

DialFrost

Never mind guys sorry all I had to do

was search "no excerpt" bam

Luuklag

14:25

@SPArcheon Perkamentus?

DialFrost

12 queries all doing the exact same thing

SPArcheon

> extremely detailed artwork of a shadow wizard casting a spell in a cave, trending on artstation, by artgem and krunz, 8k,

Shadow The Kid Wizard

@SPArcheon Smoke Detector?

DialFrost

@ShadowTheKidWizard badge? what badge?

Shadow The Kid Wizard

@SPArcheon :)

Spevacus

14:27

SELECT ♥ FROM Tavern_chatroom

3

Shadow The Kid Wizard

@DialFrost meta.stackexchange.com/help/badges/173/research-assistant

SPArcheon

@ShadowTheKidWizard please, @curious, enlighten this one

Shadow The Kid Wizard

> No results found

Journeyman Geek

I very much discourage badge hunting

2

Spevacus

@ShadowTheKidWizard 404 ♥ not found

Shadow The Kid Wizard

14:28

@JourneymanGeek depends

It's useful for the site, done properly.

Journeyman Geek

@ShadowTheKidWizard I'm for getting those organically

Shadow The Kid Wizard

@Spevacus ☻

Kevin B

if by properly, you mean by ignoring it's existance, sure

SPArcheon

@JourneymanGeek let's talk about that again in about two months, shall we?....

Shadow The Kid Wizard

@KevinB I mean adding actual content, with decent quality. :)

DialFrost

14:29

@ShadowTheKidWizard oh no not that

curious

@SPArcheon Hey, he's not theoretically wrong... We could try to come up with representation of smokey through SD :)

Shadow The Kid Wizard

lol

DialFrost

That badge is wayyyy too hard too get ( well at least for me I'm too lazy )

Shadow The Kid Wizard

!!/draw self

SmokeDetector

@ShadowTheKidWizard No such command 'draw'.

But I'd be up for a game of cards.

curious

14:32

O_o

Shadow The Kid Wizard

@SmokeDetector Magic the Gathering please

You start.

SPArcheon

@ShadowTheKidWizard I am actually scared of that idea. But you may ask @JNat if they are willing to risk running an Anime Diffusion bot on the Anime chat room....

curious

@ShadowTheKidWizard I knew someone with a very annoying deck that would eventually cause you to discard all of your cards

Shadow The Kid Wizard

@Smoke ^

Mithical

I don't know enough about MTG to do this :P

SPArcheon

14:34

Given the mess they had with the image posting bots in the past (and those were user-choosen pictures) I bet they will be enthusiast at the idea of a bot that generates pictures based on an user description.... right, @JNat?

Shadow The Kid Wizard

@SPArcheon they, not he. :)

@curious lol, who? IRL friend?

curious

@ShadowTheKidWizard yup

Shadow The Kid Wizard

I played only with one friend, sadly he passed away when we were 18, didn't play since then. :(

SPArcheon

@ShadowTheKidWizard ye are right, fixed the second message, too late for the first, up to @JourneymanGeek if he can.

How to annoy a MTG player 101:

curious

I haven't played since forever but I enjoy that kind of stuff, just not big into the collecting part since it's super expensive

SPArcheon

14:36

@curious Deck destruction virus I assume....

Journeyman Geek

@SPArcheon I think I've fixed that

Shadow The Kid Wizard

@SPArcheon no worry, I fell for it as well. :)

curious

@SPArcheon I can't recall but there was a combo that once in motion was pretty deadly

Shadow The Kid Wizard

@curious that's the fun though, I tried playing online, it's just.... not fun.

SPArcheon

@curious Deck Destruction Virus is a Yu-Gi-Oh card, you know.... :P

curious

14:37

@ShadowTheKidWizard ah yea I tried online and you can't really build decks right? It's been a while, I don't recall too well

@SPArcheon Ah I'm talking about MTG though

SPArcheon

@curious That was the joke.

Shadow The Kid Wizard

@curious many versions, tried a couple, could build a deck but only something very basic until you get more points or spend more money.

curious

@SPArcheon Sorry I didn't get it haha I've only heard the name Yugioh and I wasn't even aware it was a card game ^^''

Shadow The Kid Wizard

Well luckily (?) for our friendship, my friend and I had pretty much equal cards in our decks, power-wise.

e.g. he had Serra Angel, I had some Vampire with same power.

So it was always fun to play.

SPArcheon

@ShadowTheKidWizard B.F.M.?

Shadow The Kid Wizard

14:41

@SPArcheon ?

Best Friend Magic? yep

We weren't the best friends of each other actually, but were part of same D&D group and played Magic together. ;)

:9325592 didn't see yet :(

What was it?

SPArcheon

here, other source wasn't working.

Unglued set, which as you may guess was kinda of a joke...

Shadow The Kid Wizard

@SPArcheon it was, I saw the pic just didn't click to see the full one.

@SPArcheon yeah, no way that's a real card. lol

Also, keep in mind I played only until 1996, so don't know cards that were created after that.

SPArcheon

@ShadowTheKidWizard no, it is a real card. It is an actual set that they sold. But obviously banned from tournaments.

it was a "joke set"

Shadow The Kid Wizard

Found my vampire!

And the Angel...

Light and darkness, pretty much same power.

Think my record with the vampire was getting him to power of 20

But there was also card that removed all counters, lol

SPArcheon

it is funnier if you somehow manage to play the first version of Blessing with someone who doesn't know how it was changed...

current one:

original:

Shadow The Kid Wizard

14:52

?

SPArcheon

Shadow The Kid Wizard

waking @SPA up

SPArcheon

here, had to resort to paste since usual image link bug...

Shadow The Kid Wizard

@SPArcheon what bug?

SPArcheon

@ShadowTheKidWizard can't import image etc...

Shadow The Kid Wizard

14:53

Anyway it's the same, they just make it more simple/shorter. :)

SPArcheon

@ShadowTheKidWizard the original one never said "until the end of turn"

Shadow The Kid Wizard

@SPArcheon I always just go to Ask page, pasting the image, copy the link.

SPArcheon

@ShadowTheKidWizard exactly

also...

Shadow The Kid Wizard

If too big, I paste link to the image, this auto converts to JPG if needed.

@SPArcheon it doesn't take so much time. :D

@SPArcheon me, in ~60 years.

Spevacus

The true end of the mobile apps: Mobile app infrastructure being decommissioned

Shadow The Kid Wizard

14:57

shedding 6-8 tears

SPArcheon

.... some great results today.

Spevacus

He looks like he has a story.

SPArcheon

> extremely detailed artwork close up of a dark wizard casting a spell in a cave, trending on artstation, by Ul de Rico, 8k

Shadow The Kid Wizard

@Spevacus oh, the stories I have...

@SPArcheon that's not 8k

it's half a k

So to get good results you must start any query with "extremely detailed"?

Otherwise you get poor detailed resullts?

Well Google also has results. :D

Same query.

SPArcheon

@ShadowTheKidWizard apparently every model has its own rule.

it really depends on how the model was trained.

the stable diffusion model probably used media pictures and such because it seems to be really good at some specific people faces.

I mean...

you can see that it is very good for people like Johnny Deep or Emma Watson

both very generic prompts with no attempt at "exceptional quality".

First one was "Johnny Deep portrait, steampunk" second one "Emma Watson portrait, fantasy"

"Fantasy Morgan Freeman" does not produce results that are really "fantasy" but you can clearly see the face is quite coherent and well made.

Seems more of a "Big Bang Theory" poster than fantasy...

but... it is clearly him

also, apparently people noticed that some people get far more coherent results...

clearly shows the potential dangers of this tech, and how bad it will be to be an easily recognizable face

Shadow The Kid Wizard

15:29

Deep Fake is a real danger, but not of some actor or actress.

Done properly (?) it can bring powerful politicians down, and until it's found as fake, it's already too late. Or, the other way around, politicians faking their deep fake to gain sympathy.

Meta Andrew T.

My ~~graphic card~~ fans died after I let them work too hard generating some images...

Shadow The Kid Wizard

@MetaAndrewT. find more sturdy fans

Pay them more, feed them better.

:D

SPArcheon

@ShadowTheKidWizard well, if you know about the incident with Elliot Page - at the time Ellen Page - with the game Beyond: Two Souls you may want to reconsider that.

I think he actually sued the game makers back then?

SPArcheon

15:55

@MetaAndrewT. Right now I am using various online demos, can't really try local install now.

Yet, I bet that in a year someone will actually try to sell stable diffusion image gen as a PS5 game ... :P

btw, tried to upscale one of the results.

last one was...

> extremely detailed artwork close up concept art of a dark wizard in a cave, trending on artstation, by Ul de Rico, 8k

oddly enough trying to change subject to something like

> extremely detailed artwork close up concept art of a dark elf in a cave, trending on artstation, by Ul de Rico, 8k

don't seem to produce anything good at all

Kevin B

16:16

hmm... i wonder if it can generate minecraft-style build concepts

Tinkeringbell

@SPArcheon could be a high res image of the protagonist from a game I've been playing recently XD

Meta Andrew T.

looks like Obi-Wand Kenoby

PM 2Ring

@SPArcheon Impressive, but the hands in most of those pictures are weird, or downright creepy.

One of my friends is a cartoonist. He says hands are really hard to get right. Our brains have learned a lot of hand images (our own as well as others), and if you get them wrong they won't communicate the intended gesture, and they can easily slide into the Uncanny Valley.

SPArcheon

16:41

@PM2Ring yep I know, but my point there was just that the Stable Diffusion model seem pretty biased to Emma face and probably contained a ton of photos of her

As for the hands problem, many diffuser try to fight that via negative prompts, but you don't get those on free web apps

That said, I am still quite scared that things like these are generated...

and apparently even THIS ONE...

Yep, an Inkling from Splatoon

PM 2Ring

@SPArcheon His right eye (our left) is a bit wonky, but yes, it's scarily good.

SPArcheon

@PM2Ring and that was me asking something similar to "Link from Legend of Zelda, live action movie"

Meta Andrew T.

not the CD-i version? boo...

PM 2Ring

@SPArcheon Right. It probably does have a ton of photos of her, especially of her face. And I expect it's a lot harder to synthesise hands from a bunch of photos. Also, Emma has a fairly neutral face, which makes it very adaptable.

Shadow The Kid Wizard

So, turns out staff don't have binding close votes without a diamond.

Wonder if we should document this somewhere?

Meta Andrew T.

16:53

@ShadowTheKidWizard Still correct, according to this

56

A: What privileges and tools do staff members without a diamond have access to?

Here are the special things that a non-mod user with IsEmployee == true can do, and some special things that apply to all employees: On per-site metas, Meta Stack Exchange, and Stack Apps: Can add/remove moderator tags (status-*, featured) tags to questions No content throttling (stopping user ...

PM 2Ring

The earliest experiments in statistical image generation discovered that a face image created by averaging the features of a bunch of faces tended to look more attractive than any of the source images. The corollary is that good-looking faces tend to be like an idealised average face. I remember there were websites where you could play with that stuff...

Shadow The Kid Wizard

@MetaAndrewT. nope, close votes aren't even mentioned there.

Unless you mean it by "if something isn't there, it's correct"?

Also, "see comment edits"????

Since when? checking

PM 2Ring

@SPArcheon I showed that one to my cartoonist friend (a few days after you first posted it here). He was impressed.

Shadow The Kid Wizard

6

A: How to view comment revision history

Not for us mere mortals. Only developers can see the revision history of comments, but that doesn't include edits made during the edit window (so only changes by moderators are kept in the revision history, which makes it practically useless for normal users) Related: Let moderators see the ori...

So any staff actually has developer level access. Interesting.

And disturbing.

Mithical

No; mods have access to comment revision history

as of 2016 at least

PM 2Ring

17:03

Is it possible to edit the comments that get attached to edits?

Shadow The Kid Wizard

@Mithical including edits made by the comment author in the first 5 minutes?

@PM2Ring you mean edit summary, and yes, mods can edit it.

PM 2Ring

@ShadowTheKidWizard Thanks

Shadow The Kid Wizard

@PM2Ring if you mean edit by the one who made it, then any new edit with a different summary within the 5 minutes grace period will overwrite the previous summary, making it begone without a trace.

After the grace period, only mod can edit it.

PM 2Ring

@ShadowTheKidWizard Sure. I sometimes modify or append to the edit summary comment when I re-edit within the grace period.

Meta Andrew T.

@ShadowTheKidWizard it only lists what they can

PM 2Ring

17:07

So if I notice a nasty remark in an edit summary, I can't fix it myself, I need to raise a custom mod flag.

Meta Andrew T.

@PM2Ring yes, just be sure that the edit summary will be still more than 10 characters :)

SPArcheon

@PM2Ring another odd case. For some reason "by artgerm" produces high quality results on base stable diffusion, with a clear "asian" aesthetic

Shadow The Kid Wizard

@PM2Ring yup

SPArcheon

which I guess is quite understandable since if "artgerm" is actually "Stanley Artgerm"...

he usually draws DC characters but the style is not DC at all

that said it seems to be one of the few "cartoon" styles that produces decent results.

PM 2Ring

I guess it's also possible that Stanley Artgerm donated a whole bunch of training data in high resolution.

Shadow The Kid Wizard

17:16

hmm

Mithical

@ShadowTheKidWizard I think so? It's not a feature I use very often.

Shadow The Kid Wizard

@Mithical interesting, so they totally changed comments revisions system in the recent years, all without telling even a hint.

Not surprised, but it's not a bad thing for a change.

Everything currently on MSE says nobody can see comment edits made by the author, and sounds like it's all wrong.

Meta Andrew T.

@ShadowTheKidWizard I just checked, and yes

Shadow The Kid Wizard

@MetaAndrewT. so no grace period for comment edits? Each edit creates a new revision?

Meta Andrew T.

@ShadowTheKidWizard very much yes

Shadow The Kid Wizard

17:26

hmm

Lots to edit then.

Meta Andrew T.

@ShadowTheKidWizard sample demonstration on meta.stackexchange.com/q/381465/241919

Shadow The Kid Wizard

@MetaAndrewT. I was still under the impression it includes only mod edits, so comment author can see the edits made by mods to their comment.

Meta Andrew T.

18:10

4

A: Make the moderator flag comment max length longer

This issue has been addressed by increasing the mod flag comment max length to a limit of 500 from its previous 200 character count. This should help with some limitations of giving a more specific detail when flagging a comment. Thank you for bringing this to our attention.

rene

18:32

I'll prepare a monologue and present it to you in 100 comment flags, all filled to their max char limit.

3

@Luuklag that was eng

Luuklag

great minds...

another one to del meta.stackexchange.com/questions/383042/…

damn there is a lot of crap around lately

rene

yeah

Meta Andrew T.

that's why I'm curious if those warning for question ban has a URL that redirects to MSE or not... due to staff testing only on MSE

Luuklag

18:49

yeah would be good to know. This one guy VLZ also mentioned being redirected

rene

We need more socks.

Luuklag

That VLN has an unlinked SO account, stackoverflow.com/users/14121197/vln, low in rep, might be close to Q-banned depending on deleted posts

Meta Andrew T.

@Luuklag it's linked, the MSE profile is only hidden

Luuklag

@MetaAndrewT. ah okay

@MetaAndrewT. Perhaps we can ask @cat if she has time to spare

Feeds

20:52

Science tip: Scientists hardly ever use the two-dot division sign, and when they do it often doesn't even mean division, but they still get REALLY mad when you repurpose it to write stuff like SALE! ALL SHOES 30÷ OFF!

Catija

21:43

@Luuklag What? Sorry, I'm confused.

Journeyman Geek

23:22

hmm

I need eyes and opinions on something

actually never mind, I don't actually think its a dupe yet

I was gonna ask if meta.stackexchange.com/questions/371414/… could be considered a dupe of meta.stackexchange.com/questions/382693/… but not yet

Spevacus

23:54

@JourneymanGeek Agreed, not yet.

Transcript for