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2:31 AM
27 messages moved to Chimney
@Catija I feel like that would be less of an issue with SO's volume. And admittedly I don't check the queues as much cause the queues on both my main sites tend to be empty :D
@user400654 eh, that's potentially useful for some ;D
(sorry folks, just got around to catching up on the interwebs)
@Ollie there's nothing that annoys a mod more than repeated flagging of a thing. I vaguely remember there's folks who literally have been flagging the same post over years
Its been seen, we've decided what to do. Mods do talk and leave trails of what happened - and generally have long memories
Much like how a bounty is spending 'reputation' to get attention (as opposed to an answer as many assumes) - the goal of a flag, accepted or declined, is to get a mod to take a look.
 
3:25 AM
hm.
 
 
3 hours later…
6:17 AM
13 messages moved to Chimney
 
 
1 hour later…
7:25 AM
picks random post and starts flagging for 6 to 8 weeks
 
7:36 AM
@rene suspends 68 weeks
 
7:48 AM
Nooo... my left nav changed and my muscle memory is all wrong now :(
 
7:58 AM
@JourneymanGeek you really want to bother a CM with my annoyances?
@Tinkeringbell what did you use on the left nav that got changed? Teams got addded, right? Not moved?
 
@rene Yeah teams got added, but now the top part is also slightly different from what I was used to:
There used to be no space between 'home' and 'questions', and also not the word 'public' XD
I also think 'home' is placed higher up now?
 
Ah, yeah. The left bar is now as intended by Joe Friend, across the network that is.
 
I mean, I don't mind the links to Teams there! But I need to get used to this XD
 
I'll give you 6 to 8 minutes get your muscles retrained ;)
 
@Tinkeringbell I just use keyboard shortcuts to navigate :D
 
8:14 AM
@rene I'm probably going to need at least 6 days :P
I don't use the left-nav that much XD
@Mithical I can remember a lot of useless things... keyboard shortcuts are too useful to be remembered XD
 
@Tinkeringbell there's one thing I am confused about. Wasn't there a plan to move teams notifications to the left bar, and one of the teams we shared had it... and its missing I stink
 
8:35 AM
@JourneymanGeek I'm glad I can't smell you then :P (Took me a while to figure that typo out XD). I'm not sure about that, I do know one of the Teams indeed has something where notifications at least don't turn up in the regular inbox... Maybe it will just have the red notification dot, like other teams?
 
Damn this dutch translation of Deep Learning hurts...
"Diep leren"
couldn't get any more litteral
 
Ouch yeah.
 
@Tinkeringbell perhaps because the audience lacks any understanding of english
 
Yeah you're lucky it's just Dutch, and not a dialect :P
 
@Tinkeringbell Honestly I understand most of them, except those in Limburg
And Frysian, but then isn't a dialact, but an official language
Did anyone already ask a CM / Teresa if that announcement should be featured?
 
8:50 AM
 
Ah yeah
but that would probably only ping Teresa, don't know how quick she is to respond to those
 
Is it really network-wide though? Only a subset of sites will get that teams thingy
 
@Luuklag I do understand most of them too, but I can't write them :P
 
@rene answer in comments here: meta.stackexchange.com/a/362211/361484
@Tinkeringbell nobody can, as there are no official spelling rules xD
 
 
1 hour later…
Rob
10:17 AM
@rene, That's ironically hilarious, because they have over 2000 questions; already a leading source of their reputation.
 
10:28 AM
@Luuklag oh, not yet. and we mostly handle the flags so its not the fastest way
 
10:41 AM
@rene MO is kinda 'wierd' - they're a 'client' of SE from waaaay back
Looks like essentially they and the language SOs are the exceptions?
I think I might overtake waffles in the all time rep tables in a week or two. This... is kinda wierd considering waffles was one of the folks who built this place ._.
 
@JourneymanGeek I didn't check all my sites yet.
 
11:07 AM
If a disgruntled user downvotes a bunch of questions in succession on the front page of a site, does the serial voting script detect that? I.e., they aren't serially downvoting a single user, they're downvoting anyone who happens to be on the front page.
 
@PM2Ring Probably worth a mod flag. At least that way someone will remember to check after 24 hours ;)
 
I'm not sure if it is automatic but voting in a high rate is something that gets reversed when brought up with the CM team
and what Tink says
 
@Tinkeringbell Ta. Apparently, it happened a little while ago on Physics. I didn't see it myself, someone mentioned it in chat.
 
@PM2Ring Yw. Also: meta.stackexchange.com/a/362059/369802 ... Based on that, I highly doubt any such voting as you describe will be automatically detected and reversed.
 
@Tinkeringbell I'd read that post, but I wasn't sure if "All of those votes that were determined to be "scripted" for the purpose of obtaining badges were invalidated." was detected by a script or manually.
 
11:17 AM
I'm pretty sure it is manual.
 
I suspect that we'd see a lot more of that sort of vandalism if it didn't take 125+ rep (on most sites) to downvote...
 
@PM2Ring Definitely manually as in 'moderators had to manually get a CM to take a look'. Not sure if they eventually used a tool/script to determine that the votes were scripted ;)
 
I can see how a sql query over the votes table would reveal the vote rate. Still per site but internal sede makes it easier to run the same query on all databases
 
Right. Once the CMs have been alerted to the activity, it should be fairly easy to use a script / query to get the detailed evidence.
 
 
2 hours later…
1:31 PM
@rene Kenny got lost while looking for cats in the Den... :(
He's not dead, but terribly lags.
 
1:43 PM
OMG they killed kenny!
 
2:20 PM
@Luuklag the <censored>
 
thats a lot of censorship
B*stards should be fine ;)
 
If you're going to do it, go all the way
 
nah a lil censorship goes a long way ;)
 
<redacted by authoritarians>
 
2:41 PM
\o @Mithical
 
Hi Teresa
Is there a reason you decided not to feature your recent MSE post? @TeresaDietrich?
Ah yaakov just did :)
 
I think Yaakov just did
 
.... someone is a jinx and I am not sure who yet :D
@Luuklag I was meaning to poke someone about it and forgot
 
@JourneymanGeek no worries
 
/o/
 
2:44 PM
Bit of a crazy day yesterday, so catching up on the rest today
@Mithical I hadn't event thought of the upside of the Teams across the network to drive more usage of the Mods Teams
 
@TeresaDietrich Mod politics is... interesting
 
@TeresaDietrich That usually every day for me. I've been playing catch-up the entire year so far I think...
 
I am sure it is
 
and a lot of us don't have SO as a main site, some folks don't want an SO account and so on
 
@JourneymanGeek now they almost all get spammed by the mod team ;)
 
2:48 PM
I know of at least one moderator who doesn't use Teams because it requires a SO account.
 
Agreed @Luuklag the number of spinning plates and juggling balls is crazy
 
SO is that site where we ask about regex, right?
 
what is the issue with a "SO account"?
 
@rene and damned souls attempt to escape vim
 
2:48 PM
I sort of defaulted to using SO if I wanted a quick peek at the latest on the Charcoal Team. With it being network-wide now, I can chill on MSE and not be out of the loop. It's pretty nice :)
 
@TeresaDietrich They don't want accounts on sites they don't use
 
@TeresaDietrich well- depends on who you ask. Some just don't see the need to, some want their personal information being viewable to SO mods
 
got it, its interesting how segmented SO is from SE, I really want it it to be more of an ecosystem
 
@rene hai im noob is c++ and java if u can prove resuorce ill be tanks in advantage
 
That's just amazing to hear.
 
2:50 PM
@TeresaDietrich that's kinda the fault of the previous management and marketing teams
So's kinda been the 'golden child' of the network, and we've mostly been fending for ourselves
 
@TeresaDietrich I think it's inevitable because of the sheer size difference
Big city problems, small town problems
 
Well, displaying Teams across the network is my first step to trying to make it feel like an ecosystem
4
 
So even if everything else is equal, SO is the site where you have to tiptoe, management-wise, because someone is going to hate something about your management no matter what
 
@TeresaDietrich it does make it easier for folks with accounts on SO, but don't have it as a main page
 
🚽
 
2:52 PM
Yes thank you
 
@user400654 🛁
 
“You can please some of the people all of the time, you can please all of the people some of the time, but you can’t please all of the people all of the time”.
3
 
@user400654 🚿
 
@TeresaDietrich it always has been one - least as Jeff saw it, and I'm half certain Joel did at first
 
but the separate identities/accounts don't support that belief
 
2:54 PM
@Mithical only in public pools
 
@TeresaDietrich well - possibly, but also seperate communities
 
@JourneymanGeek on the other hand, even going back to Careers - let alone Documentation or Teams - the main focus has been SO
 
and they do tend to have very distinct communities
But the 'ecosystem' isn't in being a whole unified thing. Its kinda in cross pollination
 
@TeresaDietrich I don't really consider my accounts to be seperate, I have the same username and description everywhere. I do know there are people that use one SE account, with different "profile info" on different network sites.
 
@Mithical that's what kinda started the mess to me
@Luuklag well - what I do in MSE, would do in SU if I had more interesting projects, and say pets don't overlap at all :D
 
2:56 PM
I think it feels more like different communities due to the different vibes across sites. Which is mostly the result of the self-governing model we have, that allows sites to set their own rules and "mores"
looking for a translation for that last word
 
norms?
 
it appears it is an english word after all according to google. "Mores" are more the unwritten rules, so norms could work yeah
 
I tend to think culture
 
@JourneymanGeek yeah its part of culture, but culture is also about aspects that bond you, like demographic, combined interests etc.
 
Secret cult prayers
 
2:58 PM
and that even when folks leave the network, they tend to stick together
 
Ominously chants "bonum commune communitatis" in the close vote review lobby
 
Well, I am off to meetings, thanks for chatting
 
@JourneymanGeek ew
 
@Luuklag my SU core community is pretty diverse
even if people keep thinking I am british or american :D
 
@TeresaDietrich have a good one
@JourneymanGeek yeah but your bonded by your interest in computerstuff ;)
 
3:00 PM
Misery loves company
 
@Luuklag plausibly!
 
3:13 PM
I tend to think you need a bit more than just 'bonding' over a thing like 'computerstuff' to be a successful SE community... You need people that not only bond over a specific topic, but are also interested in generally building a site that holds the knowledge on that topic.
 
there's a lot more than that. Least off site - people talk about their lives and so on
 
Yeah but that's off site, and that's already a good sign it's not necessary for having a good quality SE site, I think.
 
but those folks also tend to be the ones who stick around
 
True, but that doesn't mean they also still drive most of the activity that makes a good quality site.
 
not only interest, but an actual belief that it's possible to actually build/maintain that knowledge... unlike SO which has become nothing more than a help desk/free code service
 
3:28 PM
Yep. You somehow need new users (and old ones too sometimes) to realize what they're doing before posting.
 
Does this mean that you can create a Teams account now without an SO account?
 
:D
I don't think so but you're a perfect example
 
I don't think any normal user understands how SE accounts work (I'm quite sure I don't understand it fully either). It's seriously complex how the network and site accounts interact, and it only gets worse with Teams. Part of this is inherent complexity, but I'm quite sure there's a lot of unnecessary complexity in there that is hard to get rid of now
 
@MadScientist its still hosted on SO
but we don't need to park ourselves on SO to know about new posts
 
I so adamantly hate SO teams that i've disabled the side bar and learned to navigate entirely on keyboard shortcuts to avoid being reminded that it screwed up our nav bar
 
3:36 PM
sure - but why you hate it is important
 
Yeah, I said this somewhere else. My work account got merged into my regular account when I signed up for SOfT. I'm pretty sure I had used a different browser, other email domain, still ended up with the accounts merged.
As I don't know how it works, just like @MadScientist, I assume I screwed up but can't rule out the SE account handling logic did some magic it wasn't supposed to do.
 
@rene my guess would be that there is a single piece of unique information that was associated with both accounts, that is enough for SE to merge as far as I understand
 
aibobot's on a foo+bar@gmail.com address(my main login is bar@gmail.com) and I've had no issues so far even logging in from the same IP
 
So either a verified email or an OpenID, not sure if SE uses anything else
 
SE uses openid for their own logins, oauth for external ones
 
3:40 PM
and you must never log into a second account within the same browser session
 
and your account is supposed to be tied to an email
 
I don't understand why SE doesn't add a confirmation step for automatic account merges. I mean I understand why they probably do this, but I disagree very strongly with that
 
lol. it bit the devs once or twice
balpha tweeted about it
 
@JourneymanGeek Wasn't OpenID deprectated?
 
Thomas A. Limoncelli on March 18, 2021
If there is one thing developers like less than writing documentation, it’s responding to unnecessary escalations.
 
3:45 PM
externally yes
cause much like markdown, it was not very standard
I distinctly recall the SE login is openid internally
 
Jon Ericson is on the job hunt again.
 
I saw :(
 
4:47 PM
My hate for so teams is admittedly less about teams and more about the utter neglect of the curation for so long, doubling down on blunting curation tools over the years while the quantity of garbage keeps increasing
I hated jobs for the same reason
I don’t see any of the recent initiatives as an attempt to work on this issue other than the change to the number of close votes required
That imo is really just a symptom of a much larger problem in that there’s so few people curating content compared to those adding to the mess
 
 
1 hour later…
6:11 PM
@user400654 eh, I think it comes down to the 'mutual interdependence' vs 'mutual paracitism' problem
SE's commercial offerings are what fund what we use. But the focus on them was often such that this was to the detriment of public Q&A
my main issue with careers was it was not a smart bet. Waaaay too much competition
 
i don't have an issue with them existing, or being worked on
at least, not directly
I don't like how they're being marketed
how they're being twisted into being synonymous with SO
Teams and Careers is not what SO is about
it's not what made it what it is
 
A few more of these and I'm out of a job as a parrot.
 
For once, chat is affected.
 
6:33 PM
potentially
 
@Mithical SEDE isn't so brush-off your SQL skills to keep yourself busy during maintenance ...
 
It's about three in the morning so I'll be asleep...
 
excuses ...
 
 
2 hours later…
8:23 PM
@journ you might have been better off not answering that question about repeated flagging ;)
 
Possibly but... I didn't actually realize it was my answer ;)
and I didn't handle the flags
 
The conspiracy runs deep
 
The mods run a reputation-driven cabal? Can't say I'm surprised ;)
 
Does anyone see this post in the sidebar yet? meta.stackexchange.com/questions/362203/…
Yaakov featured it 6 hours ago, but currently i should still blame caching....
 
I think the cache might need a kicking
 
8:31 PM
Argh stupid American companies. They translate the entire page, but still list a price in USD... Sigh..
 
@Luuklag I had seen it but now I don't
 
Meh there still 2 hours left of the 6-8 hours window
 
@Luuklag and a point that should be made is - if it wasn't me (and I don't have particular need for rep - I'd lose at most 20 on that question, or rep caps)
 
@Luuklag I assume that handling different currencies is annoying in many different ways, so I can understand keeping it simple and only use dollars. And at least with credit cards I never had an issue with paying in dollars, conversion just happens automatically
 
would it be fair to whoever answered to lose the reputation?
 
8:35 PM
@Mithical I see the blog entry on SO though
@JourneymanGeek I know your intentions are good, but to one unfamiliar with you as a person, or your standing within the community it might come off as odd
@MadScientist I know, but supporting Eur is not that difficult. The conversion doesn't change that much, so you can simply put an EUR amount there.
 
meh
 
Usually that ends up more expensive for me, so I don't mind the dollars ;-)
 
translations can be managed mostly static, exchange rates on the other hand..
 
@MadScientist True, but I need that info for a quote to a client. I can't quote them in USD ofc.
@user400654 True, but you could even be simple and just do a 1 to 1 conversion. Usually the EUR is below the USD, so you'd have extra profit as well
It has been since Q3 of 2002. So yeah not that big of a deal I'd say.
 
 
2 hours later…
10:14 PM
@Luuklag I've now got an old tab open with it featured and a new tab that doesn't have it.
 

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