Tavern on the Meta

5:00 PM

@JonEricson I figured you'd done something like that. And while more staff participation on Meta would be great, it's definitely not something that's easy without the right mindset or preparation. OTOH, Yaakov has seemed to have done pretty well.

TRiG

How are we feeling? Cautiously optimistic? Burned out? A dismissive shrug and "I'll believe it when I see it"? Or actually hopeful?

I ask because I'm not at all sure how I'm feeling.

Rubiksmoose

@TRiG Combination of the last two.

user400654

wait and see

rene

Yes, all of the above

Journeyman Geek

@TRiG Cautious mostly :D

Jon Ericson

5:06 PM

@PM2Ring Yes. He's fantastic. The devs are generally successful interacting with people on meta, in my experience.

user400654

i see no history that would suggest to me that this new executive will resort to attacks on portions of the community, but only time will tell. we can be a rough bunch

rene

@JonEricson why did you move them from Enterprise to Team? The company turned out to be too small to handle an Enterprise? ... ;)

Journeyman Geek

@rene Dogfooding I guess :D

rene

Yeah, I don't assume they have Experts-Exchange running internally ...

Jon Ericson

@rene Yes. Also Enterprise was (is?) behind the VPN that not everyone used.

rene

5:09 PM

Ah, yes. That makes sense

Good call ;)

Journeyman Geek

@JonEricson the one that convinced Shog his network was crap :D

I both feel good and bad about talking him out of a DIY router...

TRiG

@rene That is an amusing image, though.

Jon Ericson

Enterprise never got traction because it was somewhere you have to seek out. Teams work because everyone is on SO already.

rene

@TRiG despite popular belief I'm amusing now and then ...

Journeyman Geek

@JonEricson and there's friction. Also VPNs rather suck :D

rene

5:13 PM

@JonEricson yeah, one of the key features for knowledge sharing tools is effortless entry and no barriers/obstacles to use it.

Journeyman Geek

@rene there also needs to be a willingness to use it, and find information you need

I don't log into confluence as often as I should :/

PM 2Ring

5:27 PM

I'm impressed by Teresa's "the buck stops here" attitude. She's made a couple of promises to do tangible stuff in the next couple of weeks. And she seems to be aware that if she doesn't deliver on those promises her credibility will be totally shot.

canon

@PM2Ring I'd be more impressed if that attitude came from the responsible leadership. Even then, it'd be very little.

Rubiksmoose

@πάνταῥεῖ How could it possibly be a rant! They even clearly say that their rant is not a rant.

πάντα ῥεῖ

How does that matter, if it is just one??

rene

you were all so rude on that ~~rant~~ question ....

πάντα ῥεῖ

Hmm, I was very kind IMO

user400654

5:37 PM

i didn't think i was rude

πάντα ῥεῖ

Well, maybe from that specific OP's perspective?

TRiG

@user400654 The post leads with an accusation. There's a genuine question in there, but the tone is sour from the get-go.

@user400654 Sorry. You're a different account.

πάντα ῥεῖ

@user400654 OK, see:

> It's necessary to provide some kind of "background information" or "context" in many cases

TRiG

Both are "user" and a string of digits, so it's hard to tell.

user400654

by design

:)

πάντα ῥεῖ

5:42 PM

@user400654 Isn't it really offensive to ask about more clarification and example in such case the OP stated?

@TRiG Just sort out the numbs ...

Rubiksmoose

@πάνταῥεῖ I was being sarcastic in case that wasn't clear ;)

πάντα ῥεῖ

I know of course :-D

user400654

i mean... it's no more offensive than claiming everything you post is dismissed as a rant without providing evidence that what you've posted in the past wasn't a rant, considering the very post they made is a... rant.

Rubiksmoose

I mean, I thought that @rene was also being sarcastic...

πάντα ῥεῖ

I know of course :-D

Rubiksmoose

5:46 PM

OK lol

user400654

:)0

i started leveling a new toon in wolcen, leveling through the "maps" is rough

imagine fighting an act boss every 5 minutes

Rubiksmoose

@user400654 That post has so many layers of delicious irony.

It's Over

@Shadow9 I can!

Sha is as innocent as a lamb.

Who makes dirty jokes every 10 messages.

user400654

i started as a melee/caster hybrid with aether ray, that skill melts enemies. but now i'm fully into ailment bleeding edge, but i'm super squishy atm due to not having the block chance/efficiency that the final build relies on for defense

It's Over

A very interesting, outlandish lamb

@user400654 Uh

That is an interesting biography

Oh it's about this game I can't pronounce the name of

user400654

5:51 PM

yeah i don't know how it's supposed to be pronounced

wolsen?

wolken?

It's Over

Walken

user400654

walking

It's Over

@rene Citation bloody needed!

chat.meta.stackexchange.com/search?q=rene+lol&room=89

I remain unconvinced

rene

your problem ...

πάντα ῥεῖ

> youtube.com/watch?v=2Z2RzVhw4rE

Mithical

6:39 PM

I'm curious why this is now attracting downvotes... it's gotten an unupvote and two downvotes today and I really don't know why.

πάντα ῥεῖ

Voting reasons are too arbitrary to tell :-P

Rubiksmoose

@Mithical Well it looks like maybe there was an answer deleted today? So that explains the new activity at least...

TRiG

@Mithical Upvote was me, on reading it for the first time because it was linked to from somewhere (cannot now recall where).

terdon

I could never bring myself to vote on that one. I agree with many of the things you say, but I just can't stand the word "toxic". To me it's a meaningless buzzword, which is horribly overused.

πάντα ῥεῖ

^ but I just can't stand the word "toxic" Totally aggree with that.

Rubiksmoose

6:50 PM

@terdon I think people use it to mean too many different things and effects. I think it has its place but almost always that is with some sort of clarification.

terdon

Exactly. And you just can't use the same word to describe a rapist and someone who, say, has a condescending tone and expect the word to retain its strength and meaning.

TRiG

> people use it to mean too many different things

Ah, so you're saying that the word is problematic?

terdon

Yes

It's Over

I like "toxic" but only when it refers to radioactive contamination or waste

terdon

This may be my background in the physical sciences talking, but toxic is a very strong word. Its overuse has rendered it useless for me.

It's Over

6:52 PM

Green glows are exciting

I've never grown to its meaning in social contexts

@terdon Exactamundo

πάντα ῥεῖ

There's no "social context" at Q&A by definition in 1st place.

It's Over

Ah, you know, the definition of "toxic" people throw around to silence the opponent, for better or worse. Or to incite argument about the word "toxic"

terdon

@πάνταῥεῖ There is in a chat room, also by definition.

It's Over

Nothing's more fun than semantic quibbling about semantic things about semantic things

canon

Toxicity has been reduced to classifying anything which violates the positive bubble of adulation to which newer (American?) generations seem(?) accustomed. Criticism? Toxic. What if it's warranted? Toxic. What if it's constructive? Still toxic and you're toxic too!

It's Over

6:56 PM

Ur face iz toxic!

Rubiksmoose

@TRiG I'd say it has issues.

canon

omg mah face!!!111oneone

It's Over

@Rubiksmoose and that it's problematic

terdon

@canon That might be a tad reductionist. There are valid uses for the word, it's just that these days, it seems like all sides use it to basically mean "those who don't have the exact same position I do", unfortunately.

Rubiksmoose

@It'sOver Sure lol.

canon

6:58 PM

@terdon I don't think it's reductive to say that people bandy about that term when their ego is wounded.

terdon

@canon They do indeed. I objected to your limiting it to a specific geographic and generational range.

canon

Sure, some behavior is combative and malicious.

It's Over

Ego died. Chris Pratt can attest to that.

. . . I know that doesn't sound like much but he stopped the galaxy from turning into pudding

Rubiksmoose

@canon It's also not the only way the term is used. Toxic relationships, toxic workplace environments, etc.

It's Over

Drug toxicity

canon

6:59 PM

@terdon Ah, well... that's just based on my own limited observation. I'll readily admit I don't have all the data. I've simply, personally, seen the term wielded way more often by the groups I've described.

It's Over

Oh wait that's the objective one

Yeah, to me, one set of definitions for "toxic" has clear enough criteria and objective ways of measurement, and the other is only heard when there's an unpleasant conversation to be had. No wonder I only prefer the former

canon

@Rubiksmoose sure. And the behavior we've been describing cheapens that term as a qualifier for anything truly hazardous.

It's Over

LOL

-28

Q: Why is Stack Exchange full of people who don't know what the word "rant" means?

Every other question I ask gets a snarky, useless comment claiming that what I asked is a "rant", themselves providing zero answer/input. Ironically, that is a rant in my book. They are "ranting" about my question being a "rant" (which it isn't) instead of answering it or even trying to provide a...

discussion

The levels of irony in this

And this

There is no better way to answer a question like that

πάντα ῥεῖ

To speak frankly free: The OP just made an idiot of themselves.

It's Over

Uh, a bit too far maybe

terdon

7:05 PM

Although there is a kernel of truth. I have to admit I've see the word "rant" thrown around a bit too easily. There's a difference between "rude" and "not constructive" and "rant".

We do sometimes use "rant" as a substitute for "crappy and unpleasant".

It's Over

Yes

Which only tells me that people are doing more meta than is healthy for them

πάντα ῥεῖ

The OP insulted many members not to understand what a rant actually means. That's enough.

It's Over

Shrug

Shadow9

@It'sOver 11

@It'sOver Shog?

Journeyman Geek

@It'sOver meta has been found to cause navel gazing in the state of California

Rubiksmoose

7:10 PM

@πάνταῥεῖ Let's not be rude please.

terdon

@πάνταῥεῖ Why is that an insult?

πάντα ῥεῖ

@terdon How it isn't?

terdon

Telling me I don't understand something is not insulting. Either you're right, and I don't understand it, or you're wrong and I do understand it. Either way, why would I be insulted?

We all have things we don't know and a suggestion of ignorance shouldn't be insulting.

πάντα ῥεῖ

Ahh, that's gone now. I feel good.

Rubiksmoose

@terdon There is a subtle difference between insulting and actually feeling insulted of course.

terdon

7:13 PM

@πάνταῥεῖ Wow. You must be very spiritual.

:P

πάντα ῥεῖ

Of course I am.

Rubiksmoose

Like I can easily be insulting by writing in a comment that, for example, everyone who downvotes my answer must not be able to read or be able to think critically.

terdon

@Rubiksmoose Sure, but then you're insulting their abilities, not their knowledge. Knowledge can be easily acquired.

"Anyone who downvotes my answer can't think" => insulting. "Anyone who downvotes my answer doesn't know enough to understand it" => extremely irritating, but not really insulting.

It insults the OP more.

Rubiksmoose

@terdon I would say it is certainly rude though.

But [shrug].

I'm too tired for arguments lol

It's Over

@Rubiksmoose False!

Rubiksmoose

7:19 PM

XD

terdon

@Rubiksmoose What!? You pestilential worm, you! You sack of overgrown and underfed ferrets! You... oh, you said argument! Sorry, my bad. Down the corridor, second door on your right.

Rubiksmoose

@terdon hahahaha

πάντα ῥεῖ

The rudeness lies in the assumption that other users are undable to understand something that's basically agreed in a wide larger community, instead of asking a real question why things are happening as they do.

terdon

@Rubiksmoose I take it you know the reference :)

Rubiksmoose

@terdon I do! Love me some Monty Python.

πάντα ῥεῖ

7:23 PM

> youtube.com/watch?v=SJUhlRoBL8M

Di dum, di dum, di dum di dum di dum :D

> youtube.com/watch?v=q3NTVkHwD5I

-3

Q: Can you please consider to use the word "please" more often?

The "reminder" blog post about the 2020 developer survey says: First and foremost, we ask that you share the survey with your networks. and ... we want to learn about how they work. Okay, I got it. You want something from your readers. The same users that you annoyed so much over th...

discussion blog

user400654

please no

πάντα ῥεῖ

:-D

@user400654 You nailed it.

Just like that: youtube.com/watch?v=SJUhlRoBL8M

@terdon Not that bad response.

terdon

7:38 PM

Thanks

I was really pissed off at that request to spam our friends, so I do share Ghost's outrage. But the language wasn't the problem, the content was.

I mean seriously, how out of touch are these marketing people?

user400654

i mean, how out of touch are normal people with how marketing works?

πάντα ῥεῖ

It's always the content.

user400654

:shrug:

terdon

The very same day that we had a top-level executive apologize and admit that there are serious problems in the relationship between community and company, we had a marketing email talking about how much we love the company and would do things to help them.

user400654

it's literally their job to paint a rosy picture and ~~fool~~ entice people to join and participate. you don't do that by not sending marketing emails showing how everything is great, false or otherwise

πάντα ῥεῖ

7:42 PM

@user400654 Marketeers aren't normal people? I love ours in my company, even if they sometime spread weird announcements and news. We just level them back to the ground ;-)

user400654

well, normal might not be the right word

It's Over

Oh, so something did happen other than the apology

user400654

enlightened maybe?

It's Over

Why didn't no one tell me? :(

On-fire

terdon

New decade, new survey goals (& reminder to take the survey before it closes next week!)

Erin Martin on February 19, 2020

We’re two weeks into collection of data for our 2020 Developer Survey. If you haven’t yet taken the survey, be sure to do so before it closes on February 25th. Read on for background on this year’s survey, what we hope to achieve this year, and how you can help. Primarily, you can take the…

user400654

7:43 PM

err, non-enlightened

whatver word would describe that

I didn't enjoy filling out the survey

terdon

That's the brilliant survey where, if you go back to check a previous question, all of your answers are lost and you need to start from the beginning.

I made that error. And never finished the survey.

grrr

user400654

because it's a constant question of should i choose x because it's correct, or y because it'll actually be heard

It's Over

@terdon Eh, the tone is of something I'd read or hear back . . . back when dinosaurs existed, and the world was ending. Like, 2012.

Who knew, it was gonna be 2020. Some typo someone made.

Dan is Fiddling by Firelight

I used the phrase "Reinstate Monica" repeatedly while filling it out. I assume my responses were routed to /dev/null on arrival.

user400654

why ask for something unrealistic

It's Over

7:47 PM

Think about it. Merely two months in, and we've had pandemic alerts, assassinations, wars, downed civilian aircraft

And Trump.

user400654

who was assassinated?

It's Over

A foreign general on another foreign soil by another foreign power

The first six questions have a net score of -40. GO META

@Rob what was that bug about chat avatars . . . I think I repro it

Rob

Me?, it was for hats.

It's Over

@Rob Uh, I dunno. There are like, three Robs in this chat, I think

Contemplates renaming to Rob

Rob

Ert is the other Rob

It's Over

7:55 PM

So you're in-Ert?

Ha, take that, @Mag

djsmiley2k TMW

oort

Magisch

@It'sOver i consider that copyright infringement

Rob

Try bob it's easy to spell, forwards and backwards; also handy if you go overboard.

Magisch

;)

It's Over

Robbob

djsmiley2k TMW

7:57 PM

Roboross...

Robobob

Rhubarb

Marzipan

Oh, that would actually go well with the MAR- theme

Rob

You'd be delicious

It's Over

7:59 PM

Nervous laughter

πάντα ῥεῖ

^Took me some seconds :-D

Rob

and nutty, and pasty.

It's Over

ur nutty

Crosses Marzipan out of future usernames

user400654

🔩

Rob

There's always that smokin' name

πάντα ῥεῖ

8:02 PM

> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QTnYl87p6bw

Utterance

πάντα ῥεῖ

9:35 PM

That's rude / abusive, isn't it?

> softwareengineering.stackexchange.com/questions/405511/…

> Why are you smoking pot?

Even if I am myself love to smoke pot, that seems to be an accusation coming from nowhere.

Rubiksmoose

@πάνταῥεῖ It appears to be gone now.

Andras Deak

@It'sOver knowing you that'd be H.C.N

Rubiksmoose

But yeah I'd consider that to be rude.

πάντα ῥεῖ

@Rubiksmoose Still there when reloading the page.

Rubiksmoose

@πάνταῥεῖ Still?

Catija

9:40 PM

Still?

Still?

Gone now.

"Still, still, still" is an Austrian Christmas carol and lullaby. The melody is a folk tune from the district of Salzburg. The tune appeared for the first time in 1865 in a folksong collection of Vinzenz Maria Süß (1802–1868), founder of the Salzburg Museum. The words describe the peace of the infant Jesus and his mother as the baby is sung to sleep. They have changed slightly over the years but the modern Standard German version remains attributed to Georg Götsch (1895–1956). There are various English translations. == Lyrics == == Melody == == References == == External links == Au...

@πάνταῥεῖ (I missed it the first time because it was at the end of a comment and not the whole thing as I expected)

πάντα ῥεῖ

I had to go back to the home page and open the question again to see that comment gone.

Journeyman Geek

9:59 PM

I guess the correct question is why are you still caching?

user400654

10:25 PM

🚽

Mad Scientist

11:59 PM

@TeresaDietrich: Over the last few years the CM team has been whittled down from 14 to 6. As the team got smaller, we were asked to justify the work we were doing. It seems to me that we had already hit the limits of that strategy before Robert and Shog were let go. I'd encourage you to consider the size of community management teams on networks of similar size to Stack Exchange/Overflow. Even given the amazing work volunteer moderators do for the sites, I can't see how the current CM team isn't understaffed by an order of magnitude or more. — Jon Ericson 6 hours ago

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