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6:02 PM
:((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((
SHOG :((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((
I know I'm late finding out but :'''''''''''''''''(((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((
 
@JasonC (╯T_T)╯︵ ┻━┻
 
I think I might still hold the record for biggest reversal on the network vs shog, lol. I am so going to miss our battles. :(
 
@JasonC He's now Shog86 :(
 
Shog, Robert, Jon...
 
WTH. 86 HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH 9.
Oh I get it.
 
6:05 PM
you do?
 
86'd!
 
Oh
 
lol
 
@terdon Context
 
I'll read about why he left later. I'm sure it's depressing, heh.
 
6:06 PM
ooooh! Thanks
I was trying to think of some sort of fancy math thing. Likely involving hex or binary.
 
I do hope he took a crap on someones desk
or buried some mackrel under a raised floor
 
At first I thought it was a reference to 6–8, since we don't have enough of those
Where's rene, he doesn't seem to be around
 
@djsmiley2kindarkness If he were that sort of person, we wouldn't be sad to see him go.
 
that's true.
I just wish he hadsomekind of comeback:<
 
@It'sOver He probably became too blurry
 
6:09 PM
I guess it's SE's loss. but that doesn't make me feel better.
 
Seems good to me.
By the way, that really should be pinned.
 
i have no spare cash atm, maybe once I get paid I might be able to.
 
@djsmiley2kindarkness Oh! I didn't mean to push you to donate! Good grief, that's a very personal thing!
 
I just meant that the fact that people are willing to go to such lengths to help him out is the best comeback he could have.
Thanks, whoever pinned that. Maybe this one would be better though:
2 days ago, by George Stocker
I'm raising a gofundme for Shog9. I hope you'll join me. https://gf.me/u/xcmzn4
 
6:12 PM
;)
 
I don't feel pressured at all
 
Hey I thought I had already pinned one?
 
@ArtOfCode Cheers.
 
Oh well, apologies.
 
@djsmiley2kindarkness Good. That was the last thing I wanted to do!
 
6:13 PM
:)
tbh I've only ever spoke to shog twice I think, but I can appeciate what he's done
and I hope maybe it will make some amends for me being stupid sometimes :D
 
Heh, first real interaction I had with him was when he popped around to check on ELL chat since an ELU/ELL troll had played victim
And I actually was in the middle of this very . . . uh, unprofessional dialog with a man thrice my age
What an idiot I was, heh. Anyway, the troll ultimately landed themselves a 10-year suspension or something like that
And that was when those were much rarer
 
@It'sOver Not sure about first, but he used to teach night class on IPS. I'd wake up, and the chatroom would be full with his messages. He once wrote me a sermon that kept me off the site for a week (if not more).
That's about it, I guess.
 
shog gave me a kick in the teeth when I was acting like an ass
by banning me from chat.SO for two weeks
 
HA HA
 
tbf I had it 100% coming
 
6:22 PM
I think all I've received in six (?) years of chat was one kick and a 30-min suspension for a flagged message
Both were a misunderstanding
👼
 
@It'sOver And boy was it deserved...
 
I was rather ... overzealous 3 and a half years ago
and maybe a year ago
 
Maybe a week ago
Nah it was three years
You've been annoyingly right about most things for two years at least, that I know
 
It's magic
 
@Bart Have we met.
You sound vaguely familiar.
 
6:27 PM
You may confuse me with Cody
 
Haha this is awkward
See, I've been telling people name changes suck even back when it was trendy.
I've finally given in to the dark side myself
 
@πάνταῥεῖ they're always allowed to self-answer the question once answers have become clear at some point in the future ...
 
I mean, what's new about that post.
We understand the frustration because we're feeling it, but I think we're past the meta post posting stage
But OK, if people have time and keyboards to spare, I guess I'll stay out of the way.
49
Q: Dad jokes are fun

connectyourchargerWe all know the classic dad joke that goes something like this: Somebody says a sentence to describe their self (e.g. I'm tired or I'm confused). A dad-joke enthusiast comes along and replies Hi <adjective>, I'm Dad!, because introductions follow the same format (I'm Peter follows the same form...

 
@Bart Sure, but expecting some resilient answer from SEI seems hopless these days :P
 
6:37 PM
I posted that because I want to see what SE thinks. Chances are they won't respond but it's always worth a shot.
Who knows, maybe Juan M himself will respond?
Unlikely, but I asked the question for a reason.
 
I'm thinking something more neutral would have been more likely to get a response.
 
Oh, you're talking about the first sentence.
 
@connectyourchargerpartedways This is not aimed at you... but in general... There's a lot of posts of the 'chances are they won't respond but it's worth are shot' around... and a lot of people use those to write unofficial answers that well... are showing their frustration. So please, all of you... think carefully about what you ask, how big you think your chances of an official answer are going to be, and if that really weighs up against more outrage on the site...
 
@connectyourchargerpartedways Recommended read: meta.stackexchange.com/questions/334459/…
 
@Tinkeringbell Oooh, I see you've dyed your feathers
 
6:40 PM
"What are SE plans for 2020?" Without any references to previous unpleasant experiences, or indications of "whatever you say, we're gonna throw our hands in protest". I mean, that's the most likely reaction I would be having, but no one takes their time to come up with what to say and post it to get -100.
 
@Bart I saw a red thing and I wanted it painted black...
 
Is this your emo phase?
 
@Tinkeringbell you make me happy :D
 
More likely surreal artistic phase
 
@Bart Yes.
 
6:41 PM
@Tinkeringbell nah, I'm not gonna write an answer - either SEI does or they don't
 
@connectyourchargerpartedways Not thinking about self-answers ;) But I think you can expect a few 'unofficial' ones... that aren't the most calm or self-restrained when it comes to giving an opinion on these matters.
 
@Bart It's more like her Elmo phase. Tickle her stuffed parrot and it says "Answer the question!" and giggles
 
I'm pretty sure tickling the stuffed parrot gets me suspended
 
GUUUUYS
No.
:P
giggles
 
6:44 PM
@Bart What does the COC say about tickling parrots?
 
Rob
The reference is: "I see a red door and I want it painted black".
 
I think I have achieved my goals in this chat for the day. Time to go be a pretend racing driver ...
 
@Bart I hope you crash.
 
Your wish is my command
 
(I assume you're talking video games. Otherwise... be safe)
 
6:44 PM
That's not very nice. He might break his glasses
 
@Machavity I'm not sure if you know but... my first starred message in here was about not liking Bart ;)
 
Broken glasses give you the chance to get a new perspective ;)
 
@Tinkeringbell Bart or Cody Gray? :P
 
@Machavity Bart. Definitely ;)
 
What's the difference
 
6:47 PM
@πάνταῥεῖ if that perspective includes walking into walls, then sign me up!
 
@It'sOver One has a diamond somewhere
 
That's what they want you to think
 
Removal of diamonds is just given out like candy in carnival these days ...
 
Rob
Bay Area Rapid Transit (BART) is a rapid transit public transportation system serving the San Francisco Bay Area in California. The heavy rail elevated and subway system connects San Francisco and Oakland with urban and suburban areas in Alameda, Contra Costa, and San Mateo counties. BART serves 48 stations along six routes on 112 miles (180 km) of rapid transit lines, including a 10-mile (16 km) spur line in eastern Contra Costa County which utilizes diesel multiple-unit trains and a 3.2-mile (5.1 km) automated guideway transit line to the Oakland International Airport. With an average of 411...
 
6:52 PM
@πάνταῥεῖ More like, suspensions are handed out like candy. The diamonds are mostly given back.
 
it has been confirmed
 
@S.L.Barth-ReinstateMonica Well, let's include resignments as well.
 
@πάνταῥεῖ Yup. While we're at it, resignments too.
It's all so saddening.
 
The turn seems that SEI seems to get aggressive and toxic for their long term and existing community recently. Nothing more to say ....
 
Guess so. Well, it was good while it lasted.
@connectyourchargerpartedways LOL!
 
6:58 PM
So far about the welcoming wagon ...
It's probably a whole train wreck!
And deadly
 
Welcoming Wreck... or wrack-coming wagon... :-)
Still... it could have gone over a lot better, if they'd just dropped these accusations of bigotry.
 
@S.L.Barth-ReinstateMonica let's not go there ...
 
@rene Fair enough, I'll drop it.
 
thanks
 
One wagon included to the train with the wrong gauge, will wreck the whole train. That's it. Just to keep the metaphor.
 
7:05 PM
Stack Exchange was more resilient than a train. The Welcome Wagon was only one of many problems.
 
It was a major one.
 
How bad do you have to be at your job if you don't notice a track gauge incompatibility?
 
@AndrasDeak Well, that's a good question you could ask the CEO?
 
I'm more skeptical about your metaphor :P
and I still think that the new CEO is a red herring (not literally, I hope)
 
@AndrasDeak you're more likely to notice after running the tests :P
 
7:10 PM
@AndrasDeak The problem occurred earlier, but I believe they should have addressed it with certain actions and communication (besides press releases, twitter or LinkedIn)
 
I wonder if we should expect a post from Tim next.
 
I don't think so, he's seemed like someone who's aligned with the company
 
@canon I am expecting Tim to be the next CM fired actually TBH :P
 
Then again it's probably hard to tell personal opinion from company policy. I'm thinking of "SO no longer has to be a knowledge repository" and things like that
 
@AndrasDeak But yes, he's very aligned, that's probably one of the reasons I was suspended at SO.
 
7:14 PM
heh, that's definitely not on Tim
 
We now know that the CM's are very limited in what they can say. So, it's hard to determine how aligned Tim is... or just how much he is following orders.
 
yes, and I'll spare more of my speculation as to his motives and goals
 
@AndrasDeak Who knows how lomg they think they need them and pay their money :P
 
in any case I wish all the CMs the best
6
 
Starred that, to support it.
 
7:31 PM
(removed), indeed
 
🚽
 
🗑️🔥
 
barrys bigger brother :D Also, always watching.
 
heh
 
Well that was unexpected
 
7:39 PM
what
this is fine?
 
Yes. Wasn't expecting an autoreplacement. Dang kids and your new fangled event listeners. Back in my day we had to use Java AND Script to make new things
 
Heh. Today, everyone can make things ;)
 
well, everyone can ask other people to on SO, anyway
 
Well, I just read the whole transcript: emo parrots, bleak outlooks, and "everybody who wears glasses looks the same" :-)
 
@Machavity Back in my day we used XKCD butterflies ;-)
 
7:50 PM
@S.L.Barth-ReinstateMonica Dang emacs
 
nano 4 evar
 
Still beats edlin
 
cat
 
I liken vim to religion. If you weren't indoctrinated early, it's really tough to accept.
 
7:54 PM
dog... oh wait, that's not a program
 
it can be
 
vim: you can launch it any time you like it but you can never leave
 
lol, isn't the SO question for how to quit vim one of the all-time most viewed posts?
 
So THAT's what Hotel California is about! It's really a song about vim!
 
well, hell; so, yes.
 
7:59 PM
@JohnDvorak Actually, the only thing I know how to do properly is exit vim :P
Can't do much else with it... but have started it by accident and exited it enough times for that to have stuck.
 
happy hour is here again...
 
Not yet, right?
 
I've used vim occassionally. It did the job pretty well, so no complaints from me.
 
@AaronHall yes, in 3 hours or so ...
 
it's happy-hour eve.
 
8:04 PM
lol
Room question: Is this happy hour happier then last weeks happy hour?
And how depressed will you be on Blue Monday.
 
Wasn't blue Monday last Monday?
Felt like it.
 
lol
Most mondays do
If you need someone to ruin your party: Please call my booking agent.
 
it isn't happy hour yet
 
Are we nitpicking?
 
@rene No, each week's happy hour has gotten less happy...
 
8:10 PM
But you know... it's past 9pm so I can go get a drink without getting frowned faces... see ya ;)
 
melancholy-hour?
 
resentful hour?
 
@Tinkeringbell you mean at the office?
 
go home hour
 
@AaronHall Nah, at home ;)
 
8:12 PM
It's 5 o'clock somewhere. 🍺
 
Still living with parents. Apartment coming soon ;)
 
ok, don't drink alone! :)
 
I'm at a coffee shop :P
 
Does drinking alone at your desk in the office count?
 
@meagar I think so, that's when people told me not to drink alone...
 
8:13 PM
@TravisJ what do you smoke?
 
@rene - Nothing since college lol This is CA not Amsterdam ;)
 
I'm not sure what motivates the directive, but it seems like a nice thing to say that means you care about someone...
 
@TravisJ Plenty of things to legally smoke in CA
 
@TravisJ Ah, yeah. Peace man ;)
 
@CodyGray - Not at a place of business.
In this city smoking cigarettes in public is banned as well.
 
Rob
8:18 PM
This is sine.
 
Nice, I've been asking God for a sine.
 
Me too. Maybe he can give us a cosine.
 
My credit sucks, so I hope he'd co-sine...
off I go on a tangent again...
 
🛑
 
@AaronHall That's because you want both a sine and a cosine...
...aren't you casting Perl before sine? :-)
 
Rob
8:34 PM
Modern Times:
 
9:03 PM
And that, ladies and gentlemen, is how you mic drop on the Internet. Well done, sir
 
@Machavity Quite elegant and not at SE. cool thing.
 
> I don’t need a GoFundMe page.
Nicely done.
 
> There’s very little chance I’d have left if I didn’t have something else lined up. This isn’t exactly a protest resignation. I don’t need a GoFundMe page.
Is that saying what I think it is saying, or am I overthinking it?
I think we can flesh out quite a few details by now, ones that probably were meant to be left unsaid.
But meh
 
Mentioning Conways Law is crucial. I am telling our companies PM's over and over, but they won't seem to understand it in depth :-P
 
I have a theology exam tomorrow
 
9:10 PM
@It'sOver Yeah. The previous line has some critical context
> Leaving a company on principle is a rare luxury.
 
We should talk in codes now.
 
The pink parrot giggles at midnight
 
The chicken pelican ballooned that marionette.
Jinx, birds
 
They all can fly, no?
 
Colorless green ideas sleep furiously.
 
9:12 PM
@Mark I concur
Buffalo x 8
 
9:23 PM
🎢
 
@It'sOver I think it just means: I need money to live so I wouldn't have left if I didn't have another source of income lined up. Please support Shog9 because he does need it.
 
No I didn't mean that, God
We're just doing detective work on what might have probably potentially maybe happened behind the scenes.
 
Gotcha lol.
 
i mean, from my perspective, all the flailing and such on meta over the past... 3-4 months have been particularly successful in the sense of the displeasure of a part of the community being made well known by the people making decisions. Whether or not... it's had a positive effect in terms of pleasing that part of the community or effecting change is unknown, but i don't see it as being wholesale ignored or sidelined either.
it has forced many responses that have put forth ideas/opinions/rules that would have otherwise been unknown/ignored or gone under the radar if not provoked, for example
 
9:59 PM
@Rubiksmoose Shog9 is a very competent person with various skills, and likely to find a good job to pay for their whiskeba needs.
 
I wouldn't be comfortable accepting that kind of monetary support.
 
I personally would be offended, if someone starts to make a _gofundme_ campaign in any case.
I am able to keep myself on the top.
 
I think it's more a matter of demonstrating appreciation
 
There are better ways.
 
if you say so
 
10:05 PM
There's also the aspect that he'll have to both find work and then work for a while before getting payed again. But I agree the primary aspect is symbolic.
 
@πάνταῥεῖ shrug doesn't mean it isn't hard living off of your bank account suddenly, without any warning. And part of the reason people are donating is so that Shog doesn't have to accept the first thing that comes his way to survive, but can be a bit more selective.
 
sure... but we don't even know that he's in that situation
not everyone lives payday to payday
 
Well he hasn't complained so far.
 
he either is or isn't, but it seems he was fired without any warning so anything can happen
you might manage your finances differently if you're under the impression that you have a stable job
 
You don't have to live payday to payday to be in trouble suddenly losing a job. Lot of stuff in life can drain a bank account dangerously low. Buying a house, car, health issues, etc.
 
10:07 PM
Does the US have unemployment insurance?
 
from what I usually hear "the US" doesn't have anything
 
@DisappointedinSE Not that I'm aware of? I've been fortunate enough to not have to know this though.
 
I wouldn’t feel comfortable in the US system. If I were fired it would take a month or two to take effect, and I’d get 60% of my wages for a while as unemployment insurance
 
To be clear about Shog: he didn’t know the GoFundMe was coming. He didn’t know i would do that. I spoke to him the night before it started and found out several things, but the relevant one was they were going to give him 8 weeks severance with onerous conditions for 10 years work
11
 
@DisappointedinSE #'murica
 
10:12 PM
@DisappointedinSE also health insurance
 
The normal would be 1 month per year. The people who got lay-off in 2017 got 6 months
I was insulted by SE’s actions and decided he deserved better
 
@GeorgeStocker Wow, that's insane.
 
@GeorgeStocker that’s kind of a dick move
 
And hoped everyone felt he deserved better after what he did for us
Hence the GoFundMe
@DisappointedinSE I agree
 
And throwing money at that angrily is really a good thing to do.
 
10:16 PM
@Tinkeringbell I happily threw money at it
And if I were wealth I’d give more. I’m not
 
@GeorgeStocker I guess I threw mine with mixed feelings then. Because it definitely felt like a tantrum just throwing things... But yeah, I also happily threw it ;)
 
Our starboard is very Shogtastic.
 
as it should be
 
We will be lucky to ever experience what we experienced for this 10 years
It was pretty special, and Shog was a huge part of that
 
10:34 PM
@GeorgeStocker I got better for a place I worked less than a year
 
@JourneymanGeek same
 
Wow
Did so much change even after 2017?
 
Paying severance doesn’t increase revenue 10x to prepare the IPO
 
@It'sOver Why would you identify 2017 as a pivotal point?
 
25 mins ago, by George Stocker
The normal would be 1 month per year. The people who got lay-off in 2017 got 6 months
 
10:40 PM
At this point, I feel like all of us was an accident
 
all of us?
 
@CodyGray ^ I'm comparing SE's behavior to SE's behavior
 
@JourneymanGeek I'm not sure if it's more insulting to be an accident or to have been manipulated as part of a master plan. More importantly, I'm not sure it matters.
 
27 mins ago, by Disappointed in SE
@GeorgeStocker that’s kind of a dick move
 
@It'sOver That's a bit cryptic... Why pick 2017 as the comparison point?
 
10:41 PM
Even for SEI 2017
 
eh, i don't believe that this... was a plan that existed for very long
 
@CodyGray not really no
 
i don't feel that i was manipulated into being a part of SO when i first started, or for several years till i cut back on contributing
 
@user400654 well no. But I don't think the broader network was part of the original plan either
 
instead, what i feel is that the focus/goals simply changed at some point
 
10:43 PM
@CodyGray This I quote: "The people who got lay-off in 2017 got 6 months". And the three messages afterwards
 
Oh, okay. You're comparing to the layoffs on 2017.
 
unfortunately that doesn't allow me to change my decision to provide content to the site for free, as that content already exists and is theirs forever
 
Yeah, I think it's pretty obvious that financial pressures have been ramped up significantly.
 
i worded that poorly, but i think you know what i mean
not sure how to express it properly
i contributed my time and effort to a community i felt was there to help people grow as developers... but i no longer see it as such a place
 
whoops, that's not how the saying goes, is it?
better late than never, and better to be safe than sorry, hehe
I'll just delete that before too many people see it
 
10:48 PM
I used 2017 because that’s the last time SO had to lay people off
 
but i don't own the content i contributed, so i can't do anything about it.
 
So it’s an apples to apples comparison of company behavior
 
Pineapples.
They digest your tissue.
 
Been reading your Twitter "blog" with interest, @GeorgeStocker, but I frankly find the medium extremely sub-par. I don't know if Twitter is just especially bad for users who aren't logged in, but the UX is terrible, and splitting things up into little micro-blurbs is kinda annoying to me. Is there a reason why you use Twitter, as opposed to say a blog?
Every time I try to click to follow a "thread", I lose my place in the overall chain.
 
10:51 PM
@CodyGray twitter was meant to be a way to broadcast stamp-sized mental belches to the world
writing threads defeats the purpose of the medium
 
Then its meaning was wrong.
 
I know what it was meant for: Thought diarrhea.
I dislike that form of communication. Hence the above.
 
"Twitter is just especially bad for users who don't like it", fixed it for you ;)
 
Oh, you're saying he's using Twitter wrong? Yeah, probably that, too.
 
I have some jokes about Twitter but they're NSFW. And not in just one way.
 
10:53 PM
I'm not at work.
 
At this point, I still like Stack Exchange better than Twitter. So..um..yeah..there's that.
 
@CodyGray there's a tool for that if @GeorgeStocker hasn't blocked it.
 
@CodyGray wow, some standards you have there
 
@JourneymanGeek So you're saying I have to userscript Twitter now, too? Fantastic.
 
10:53 PM
I still like Mao better than Hitler.
 
@CodyGray Twitter is stream of consciousness. I’ll likely reformulate and blog about it too.
Twitter’s value is virality
 
twitlonger is a popular service
re: meta.stackexchange.com/a/342449 what happens if/when the software SE corp sells becomes free (a free alternative arrives, just as good)?
@Cerberus_Reinstate-Monica thought you said mayo, was a bit confused but not surprised, many people do hate mayo
 
there are plenty of free alternatives to paying software and still the latter thrive and profit
 
@user1306322 Well, even those who hate mayo must agree that it is an excellent thermal paste, between processor and cooler.
 

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