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8:07 PM
@jcolebrand "idk"?
 
8:26 PM
@rene Thanks for the heads-up. It's appreciated. I don't follow MSE all that closely. I am not surprised that guy got mad at me. After he raised a question wondering why his suggested edit had been rejected, I went through and reviewed the history. That caused me to see a bunch of plagiarized content being submitted to tag wikis, so I retroactively rejected them all. Too bad that Q&A didn't stay up. It would have merited a response.
 
...which is exactly what I've been trying to say
 
Man, I love that guy.
The problem is, I know he's right, but what does it mean?
It means that we are effectively screwed. We have no way to complain, no way to push for redress, nothing whatsoever that can be done.
2
 
doom
 
We are doomed before we start, which is massively unfair.
How can we be asked to be concerned about the welfare of agents of the very toxicity and repression that we are trying to speak out against?
2
 
8:33 PM
and not the fun blowing off stress by killing demons doom
 
That, too, seems massively unfair.
 
the only tools we have are to either continue being "toxic", or shut up.. because any attempt that isn't the latter is deemed to be the former.
2
 
@Magisch Damnit he's making me cry again :(
 
That is
What do we do with that information
it leaves two choices
submit or make a push to get the entirety of management fired
 
Oct 23 '19 at 17:45, by Sonic the Anonymous Hedgehog
In particular, I'd like to see us work toward clearing the impression that some staff members have of meta being a negative place, by actually making it a positive place.
 
8:37 PM
it's unfortunate that people that don't deserve it get caught in the middle.
 
It really leaves only one choice: accept the inevitable. Either we keep our cool but still keep up the sustained criticism, knowing full well that we'll be branded as "toxic" and ignored for it anyway, or we just leave without even bothering to say anything.
Well, I certainly feel welcomed and included.
3
 
The steady criticism doesn't really do anything anyway. They don't care... and likely don't even see it. Q&A has enough momentum to coast for a long time while being ignored. They're focused on other things... and even if they were focused on Q&A, they don't view meta or its opinions as important.
 
I... don't think that's the point.
 
@CodyGray Sarcasm at it's best :-P
 
@canon But do people speak out solely because they think it'll do something, or do they also do it because authenticity and personal responsibility demand it?
 
8:39 PM
@user400654 You shut up against certain people... not others. Except that those others... well, are probably way out of our reach... that's a push that's not ours to make? :/
 
@CodyGray the problem is, shog is right
we have zero influence at the moment. In fact, anything we do is used against us, and worst of all, against anyone in the company still advocating for us
 
i mean, we're using the most effective tool we have at hand.
 
@Tinkeringbell What does that mean? Assuming that you don't mean to avoid personal attacks, which should go without saying, what are you recommending that we do?
 
That it isn't as effective as we want, or won't get the result we want, doesn't really change that.
 
@CodyGray I'm sure it's therapeutic... and often righteous. Still, I just hope everyone's realistic about how much effect they think they're going to have. Meta doesn't exactly wield much influence.
 
8:40 PM
Yeah. I think it's been clear for a while that all hope is lost. That is, all hope of us being listened to, of having any meaningful community engagement, of this being a community-run site, as it was sold to us.
3
 
@TimPost I thought elected moderators were given exclusive access to the featured tag. Why are you, as a staff member, removing it? — Davy M 18 mins ago
 
what do we do with this information
it basically confirms that by continuing to ... be here we're just hurting the last people who believe in us in the company
 
@CodyGray I'm actually trying to work that out... there's a load of personal attacks out there, so 'goes without saying' probably doesn't go without saying for me as much, so that was certainly in those words as well. In fact if you take that thought out, there's not much left.
 
Just recently I've seen posts deleted for "This is clearly a personal attack" that... well, "clearly" wasn't a personal attack. it didn't mention a target of it's critisism. no person, no team, no... nothing. it was certainly criticism of the system, which i'm sure some people have a "personal" take in, but... that's quite a stretch.
 
The people who are left that still believe will be gone regardless of our actions.
 
8:41 PM
but we have no mechanism to speak against that.
 
While Shog is technically correct about what will happen, what isn't mentioned is that it is at this point inevitable.
 
@AndrasDeak Tim discussed this with me in a private channel. He wanted to unfeature it because of legal concerns. I was sympathetic to his position, but continued to press for more details/explanation. He explained that they're under a lot of pressure right now. Please don't blame Tim. I wasn't going to unfeature it, so he felt he had to.
 
@Magisch Actually it more or less confirms (in Shog's quiet way) what we've suspected all along: that there is a viewpoint driving this and that viewpoint is being exerted from the top down
9
 
I have seen this type of control exerted over companies dozens of times in my career.
Each time results in the company being stripped to the beams, bled of revenue, and then bankrupted.
3
 
@CodyGray noted
 
8:43 PM
@CodyGray The same legal reasons that SE sent takedown requests to people hosting lists of employees removed in the November 2017 layoffs?
 
@Machavity yes but, knowing that 100% certainly (shog has literally no reason to lie) what do we do
we can't ... go on like this
we're hurting people. people who still believe in us. right now
 
@user400654 I assume you're referring to that MSO post that Tim recently deleted? We discussed that as well. I think it's quite clear from the edit history that it was meant as an attack. I have to admit I chuckled at the cleverness, but I cannot deny that it is a personal attack, and that is not helpful.
 
@TravisJ I dunno. Reddit survived its meltdown. A normal company would fold, but a content company (especially with the critical mass of SO) can hold out or recover far easier
 
reddit has a lot more users and a lot more decentralized content
 
@SonictheAnonymousHedgehog I have no idea. I haven't yet gotten any more clarification about the legal concerns. I wasn't even aware that those takedown notices had been sent. I'm very skeptical that there are real legal issues at play, given my understanding, but I'm not a lawyer and I could be wrong. More importantly, Tim's not a lawyer, either, and it isn't his call.
 
8:45 PM
and it's far more profitable
 
@Machavity It isn't a meltdown though, this is a conscious concerted effort. There is a massive difference.
 
I figured that's what he meant by that watership down quote a few weeks ago... le sigh.
 
SO isn't "melting down", it is being wrung out for all its worth before it is cast aside.
 
@Magisch I have kids. They hurt me sometimes. Would I suggest being a parent? Absolutely. I picked that path because it was what I wanted to do. Nobody at SO is a slave. Some of them are there, doing what they want to.
 
Certainly don't blame Tim Post for anything, he is definitely on your side.
 
8:46 PM
@Machavity the cm's didn't sign up for this
 
@TravisJ There was a culture change eventually
 
@Machavity Disagree.
 
heh, there's the "why" question, as expected
 
@Machavity What kind of culture? Cargo cult?
 
@CodyGray Thanks for the heads up, I've removed my comment and the request to have it refeatured.
@gparyani Thanks as well
 
8:52 PM
@DavyM You're welcome
 
Look at this way, because this is how management is looking at it. Max revenue, f*&^ everything else. Stack Overflow has now long been referred to as a place where curation is more important than content, and as a result management simply sees it as a library. An ad revenue generating library which will exist for years. Why should they spend money to change that, the library is already built.
 
@DavyM Mmm. The Meta question that GhostCat just asked is OK by my standards. But yeah, it'd be best if we could keep discussion centralized there, rather than throughout Meta in noisy comments.
 
The jobs side will produce hits because the established multi million user base is already built and in production. Private Stack Overflow doesn't need any oversight, because it never sees public scrutiny; it could literally be sold to hate groups and no one would bat an eye.
All it needs is sales people, and it generates good revenue. The future of the company is the revenue growth of private Stack Overflow in the eyes of the accountants, who have clearly taken over the outlook of Stack Overflow the company. That is why all you see are sales teams now, and growth in that region and in promotional pieces (such as the blog which constantly pitches private teams). All that is left is for the remaining overhead of public Stack Overflow to dwindle away.
 
@CodyGray But they edited in "this is not an attack" so clearly it isn't one ;-)
 
@Rubiksmoose A horse doesn't have five legs just because you call its tail a leg.
 
8:53 PM
@Magisch There is nothing I can do but follow his advice, he probably did more in that tweet than they've allowed themselves to do in months. Given that I can't do anything the best thing I can do is step away. Let it fall where it falls.
 
@SonictheAnonymousHedgehog not even stallions?
 
@Rubiksmoose Sigh, yeah, the rules-lawyering that went on in the edits is ultimately why I did not salvage that post with an edit. That drove me over the edge of just leaving Tim's deletion alone. I had originally planned to change the first sentence to "Stack Overflow management" or something neutral yet factual. There's no reason to make it personal, and we don't even know Sara is behind this.
 
Jack and the Five Legged Horse My uncle once said, "Boy, do you see that horse?" Yessir."How many legs does that horse have?" Four."Now what if I say that a horse's tail is a leg, too?" Uh..."If I call a horse's tail a leg, how many legs does that horse have?" Five?"Boy, will you never learn? It doesn't matter what you call something. That horse still has four legs." Sometimes when confronted with a difficult challenge we reply, That's not true! We say, That's not a (vanity page)/(rant)/(personal attack)/(tail); that's a (noteworthy article)/(discussion)/(polite comment)/(leg). But this...
 
@CodyGray Not a leap to guess that though. Although, to me, this type of issue generally is brought on from a C-suite level, and not from a Director.
 
@CodyGray It doesn't look like our views (all of ours) and the company's views of what is and isn't toxic are aligned at all
 
8:57 PM
@Magisch so we'll be fired too I guess
 
I don't think anyone is operating under the impression that my views might be remotely aligned with the company's.
 
Someone cited Brecht's "Die Lösung" earlier. It seems strikingly apropos.
 
@CodyGray You do speak as "we" when referring to Stack Overflow rather often.
 
But I don't really know what the company's views are, so I'm not intentionally flaunting them. I'm continuing to do what I always have, what I believe in, what i think is right.
@TravisJ I see Stack Overflow as the community, which I consider myself to be a part of. It's darn confusing that the site is named the same as the company.
 
You are part of the community "we". That's fair.
Just sayin'
 
8:59 PM
Wee for weendetta?
 
Also...I often overuse the royal "we". Bad habit, learned years ago.
 
i very much dislike that teams/jobs is being lumped in with the word "Stack Overflow"
it's all referred to as one thing, Q&A just being one part of it
 
It is a brand
 
in all official company messaging
 
and we are it ...
 
8:59 PM
Somehow this evening is an even bleaker outlook then this morning.
 
what that leads to is people reading it as it's not that
 
I thought that was impossible
 
@CodyGray At least your views are (corrected) 20/20 though. That is nice.
 
@rene is it we?
 
it is
 
9:00 PM
Are you he.
 
🚽
 
@Rubiksmoose Things are starting to get blurry.
 
rene has got to be at least a level 2 or 3 type green with his blur
 
@It'sOver who are you
 
I am he as you are he as you are me
And we are all together
 
9:00 PM
@user400654 I wanna make toilet jokes too but I got a literature exam tomorrow
@rene I, Robot
Back to business
 
@CodyGray It's all these darned salty tears getting in the way.
(too dramatic? maybe.)
 
It's honestly difficult to be here because the whole slow motion trainwreck that everyone has kind of been forecasting seems to be in the process of colliding at the moment, and all of the collateral damage is intolerable.
 
Regarding the un-featuring of the MSO post, I do want to point out that the Stack Exchange staff is on-board with leaving the "Thank you" discussions on MSE featured. So that's not going to change, and they're not exactly trying to "hide" that Shog and Robert are no longer employed there.
 
just sit back and enjoy the fire
 
I'll leave you all to it.
 
9:02 PM
@Rubiksmoose No. That's real. For me, at least.
 
I'm not ashamed to admit that I'm pretty emotionally attached to this place
11
 
@CodyGray Same.
 
maybe unwise to let it get to that point, but that's what it is
 
You can't do this for ~10 years without getting emotionally attached.
It is inevitable.
 
None of us signed up for a ideological crusade, but that's what we've gotten nonetheless. We're all facing a decision we don't want to. The path is clear; it's the part where we don't want to walk away that's the problem
3
 
9:04 PM
@Magisch No shame in that. As much as people try to pitch this as an emotionless place for factual Q&A, the fact is that we care about things. We've built things. We've met people and formed relationships. And the bulldozer looks to be coming for all of that to make a new corporate parking lot.
3
 
@CodyGray Then why unfeature the post?
 
@Machavity The thing keeping me is the following: does it matter what the company does as long as we/I still have the power to make Stack Overflow into something good?
 
i mean, he didn't unfeature it
 
@Rubiksmoose the site content is emotionless and factual. The people making that happen are still human, and the whole point of gamification is to make them attached
 
@NathanOliver The MSO post was unfeatured. Tim cited legal concerns. The MSE posts remain featured. I do not claim to understand the distinction, just citing what I've been told.
 
9:05 PM
@AndrasDeak eh perhaps I should have left that out. That is an argument I'm too exhausted to have right now.
 
@NathanOliver I hate to say it, but I agree with the MSO being unfeatured. The MSE one deserves the attention
 
@Rubiksmoose perhaps
 
The MSO post was redundant
 
@Machavity This was another argument that was made. The MSE posts are a positive signal; the MSO post is not.
I created and featured the MSO post before the MSE posts were featured (before Robert's even existed). I had flagged the MSE post about Shog to get featured, but I wasn't sure it was going to be.
 
far be it from anyone to see bad news :)
 
9:06 PM
@Machavity For people that prefer not to visit MSE it's nice to have a MSO post. It effects both places
 
So...I don't want to blow this out of proportion. It angers and annoys me a bit, but ultimately, it's not as bad as it seems in the moment.
@NathanOliver Yes, this is why I assembled the MSO post as a bunch of pointers to MSE. It was my thinking exactly. I don't follow MSE closely, and I know plenty of others don't, either. They do, however, follow their per-site Meta.
That said, with the MSE posts featured and showing up in the Community Bulletin, the need for the MSO post is much decreased.
 
i don't see it as bad... it's just... the argument for it seems weak. like, legal reasons? really? if there were legal problems the post would be deleted. What legal ramifications does a post being featured have that doesn't also apply to the post existing?
 
@NathanOliver I can see that, but the MSO post had some negative to downright toxic stuff
 
sigh
i just always hoped for more respect from the company behind the community i loved being a part of.
 
so since tuesday we've lost shog and robert, and any vestige of hope that things weren't as bad as we feared they'd be
 
9:10 PM
@user400654 It seemed weak to me, too. I tried to ask for more details so that I could make a better informed decision, perhaps resulting in me unfeaturing it myself. But apparently there was neither the time nor the available resources to have an extended conversation about it.
 
@Magisch why did you have such hope in the first place?
 
That is...understandable. Imagine how crazy things would be at your work if you just lost two of your longest-serving employees.
 
yup
that's totally understandable
 
@AndrasDeak irrationality. I wanted it not to be true
 
I don't really think recent events change anything. In particular, what they don't change is that we as the community still have a large degree of control over the site. No moderation/curation features have been removed. The company may be doing some things we don't like, or even that we cannot bring ourselves to support. But that really doesn't spell the implosion of the site yet.
 
9:12 PM
@AndrasDeak Who wants to believe terrible news about a loved one at first glance?
 
This is what I'm grappling with as I'm trying to decide whether to stay as a diamond moderator, or indeed whether to stay as a user.
 
emojis haven't replaced downvotes yet
 
perhaps I'm too cynical
 
i was expecting them to exist beside voting by now
 
@user400654 And even if they do... That would make me really angry, because I hate emojis. But as long as there's an emoji to express "this is wrong, unclear, or not useful", then does it really matter? It's all just paint job. You can like or dislike the paint job, but as long as it's covering the walls, is that enough? We can still curate content; we can still separate wheat from chaff.
 
9:13 PM
@AndrasDeak It's getting harder not to be. I mean I wrote this during the Welcoming debacle and it seems like halcyon days now
 
i dunno, i find it harder and harder to do that every year
 
@CodyGray I know I have no right, but I do really hope you stay.
 
the tools are still there... unchanged, but no matter how many times i close x as a duplicate of y, or how many times i downvote low quality posts.. they just keep on coming, and it at least feels like it has less effect now.
 
That's because of an influx of content, a lot of which is low quality. But that's not new. That hasn't changed. When I ran for moderator like 2 years ago, I was fed up with the amount of garbage. That was the whole reason I ran. Has it gotten worse than that? I don't think so, honestly.
 
@user400654 There's the possibility that un-featuring while not deleting is a compromise that Tim either chose or brokered.
 
9:15 PM
@jscs That is a possibility.
 
@Machavity I've moved to the last stage of grief: acceptance
 
The last stage of grief is an extra large bag of popcorn
 
@JohnDvorak With butter and a sob movie
 
a SOb movie you say?
 
The last stage of grief is a big tub of ice cream
 
9:17 PM
And then you have to switch back to anger for a while to burn off all those calories.
 
@CodyGray you won't like codidact then :P
 
@AndrasDeak They created Emoji Overflow, did they? Ugh.
 
yes :( not a great start
 
Eh. Megan's liberal use of emojis annoyed me when she was first hired by SO, but I forgave her because she was super awesome and smart anyway.
 
I've mostly seen their tutorial so far which is laden with emojis, even has a step for posting emojis. And there's a badge for posting an emoji. It's as if SO PR designed it 👋
 
9:19 PM
But still, that is definitely a questionable design decision. Perhaps done deliberately as an attempt to set themselves apart from SO's design language?
Ugh.
Why does news keep getting worse?
 
well to be fair this was the meta discourse thing as there's no Q&A product yet
so I guess we'll see
 
@JohnDvorak sob(cry) not SOB(redacted)
 
> Second verse, same as the first! It doesn't get better, it only gets worse!
 
Last time I tried Discourse, I was left with the distinct feeling of suckage. I know that's not very nice, but it's honest. I expected better of Atwood and Waffles. I might not have given it a fair shake; that was just my first impression, and I didn't stick with it.
 
@CodyGray Like Atwood... it's opinionated and easily worked around
 
9:22 PM
Could have easily replaced "Atwood" there with me :-)
 
I have a "behind the eye headache" so serious thoughts are beyond me at the moment
 
I find Discourse pretty awesome as forum software. If you're looking for another Q&A platform, that ain't it.
 
i've never seen or used discourse
 
@user400654 go use the blizzard forums
they are based on Discourse
 
ew
isn't that somewhat similar to that dev.to thing
 
9:26 PM
Dev.to is more like a bloggy thing as I understand it.
Discourse is a straight-up forum. With, I think, a lot of nice little bits and pieces to make forum-ing easier.
 
@jscs yes and no, Atwood refuses to add any sort of ignore feature
which can be a really nice alternative to flagging
 
I agree with Atwood on that. Always have.
Ignoring the problem doesn't fix the problem. It'll still be there for everyone else. Not just now, but in the future.
 
You can't moderate what you don't see
 
I don't, not for forums where people can get heated. Hiding the post completely is a no. But collapsing it is worthwhile. It can stop the immediate issues of emotional harm and abuse.
@CodyGray and if it's abusive they'll flag it
 
@AndrasDeak Indeed. I had to turn off the hiding of posts with ignored tags when I got elected as a moderator. :-)
@Mgetz So...it's a stop-gap until a moderator has time to come and fix the problems?
 
9:30 PM
And I gave up 15 ignored chat users when I became a room owner
 
@CodyGray pretty much.
 
Huge sacrifice, I might add :P
 
i still ignore quite a few people out of spite, but generally i click "show posts" when they're active
 
@user400654 I do generally read posts but occasionally it's nice to cool off and collect myself
 
@Mgetz So then there are still several better solutions that can be pursued: (1) more moderators, (2) more efficient moderator tools, (3) better automated systems that can block nonsense, or perhaps even delay its public visibility until it has been reviewed.
 
9:33 PM
@CodyGray hard to do without a lot of expensive bits. In theory you could use AI sentiment analysis to auto-flag too
 
Stack Overflow does that, by the way.
 
i'd rather a bigger focus on teaching people how to solve their own problems, at least on SO in particular. I don't know what that actually looks like though.
 
so posts using direct targeting language and extremely harsh language get flagged
 
@user400654 Stack Overflow TV!
 
@CodyGray sentiment analysis? I didn't think charcoal did that
 
9:34 PM
people don't research how to solve their problems, they research for an answer
 
I thought it was pattern rech only
 
and on SO they get it
 
@Mgetz Comments, mostly. SO doesn't auto-flag questions or answers. Charcoal auto-flags those, but it's based more on regular expressions than AI analysis.
Remember Andy's bot, which he taught how to recognize rude comments? That (or its moral equivalent) is being run in a more official capacity.
 
@CodyGray so the AI stuff is pretty cool, you can basically create a heatmap based on the language someone is using to see how angry they are etc.
so you can say look for keywords targeting an individual and then angry wording... and potentially auto-flag for review
 
Yeah, I assume so. That's a bit outside my area of expertise. And we don't see any of the information that led into a comment getting flagged. We just see it flagged as "unfriendly".
 
9:38 PM
either way it's not the cheapest service
 
9:53 PM
@CodyGray ha! Thanks 😉
 
Just beware of 🦄🍪s you don't know where they've been.
 
I usually reject cookies. Even from unicorns.
 
I'm always wary of hollow squares. Just something sinister about them.
Soulless and empty, full of the abyss.
I guess I need to upgrade my work computer...
 
Those are called tofu. Please learn your emoji terminology, Cody. Lol. ;)
 
^ lol
Please do remove all tofu from the inside of your computer though. It tends to muck things up.
#protip
 
10:02 PM
@AndrasDeak sounds like you're looking at either the forum (which is Discourse) or chat (which is Discord). Both of those are temporary; they are not the Codidact platform. That's just bootstrapping, and the emoji stuff is built into the tools we're using.
 
@MonicaCellio yes, it was the discourse forum as I mentioned in the next message, I should've made it more obvious. And I was hoping it was only temporary :) The fact that it was in discobot's tutorial was mildly unsettling ;)
 
The tofu I eat isn't hollow in the middle. Have I been doing it wrong all this time?
 
@AndrasDeak yeah, just wanted to clarify that Codidact itself is not headed for the emojipocalypse.
 
@MonicaCellio Thanks for clarifying. This is good news! I...needed some good news.
plz share more...?
:-)
 
: 3
 
10:06 PM
@MonicaCellio awesome, thanks :) I didn't want to ask a question about it in the forum, lest I seem petty...
 
@CodyGray development is underway. Does that help? (No I don't know how long it will take. I'm chomping at the bit, too!)
 
6-8 weeks, obviously.
 
Functional spec for MVP (has some gaps yet, but you know how that goes...): github.com/codidact/docs/wiki/Functional-Specification
 
I just meant in general. Doesn't have to be about Codidact.
 
10:20 PM
@CodyGray if you've been eating it plain... probably. I never cease to be amazed when people say they hate tofu at how bad it's been served.
not that they don't like it
 
11:03 PM
Mapo tofu, best tofu
 
Ash
@Mgetz Now that I understand that, I am finding more ways I actually like tofu.
 
Fried is good. In Miso is acceptable. Anything else is terribad.
 
Idk, tofu baked with a soy sauce glaze is decent
 
I absolutely hate fried tofu; always ask for it steamed
 
I think part of the reason is also that everyone seems to concentrate on the "extra firm" tofu, which while great for frying, is squidgy and lumpy and imo inferior to the silky stuff
 
Ash
11:14 PM
@Catija Fried tofu is so good.
@Das_Geek Silken tofu pokes my "its too smooth" food texture dislike.
 
I wonder if that's why I dislike yogurt with a passion.
 
@Ash Fair enough. I can be iffy on texture stuff, so I understand the sentiment
That might explains it. I love yogurt and cottage cheese
 
Ash
Food textures are often the biggest reasons I don't like foods.
Cottage cheese is too lumpy.
 
@Ash Agreed
 
I like pudding, though... including rice pudding... but not generally tapioca.
 
11:16 PM
The only things I don't like for the taste are pickles and olives, two things I really wish I liked
 
Pickles and olives are the best!
 
Rob
Tapioca tea is awful, but popular.
 
Hi all! Just noticed that somebody 'borrowed' my nickname on CodyCat (or whatever it's called) :)
 
Ash
@Catija see, pudding/yogurt can't have lumps in.
 
I know...I understand from a theoretical standpoint how their salty/acid-y flavors really complement the dishes they go with, but unfortunately even the smell is enough to put me off :(
 
11:18 PM
I love boba tea, used to have it so many times when I was in Austin
 
@Rob That boba tea? Yeah, way overhyped
 
Ash
@Das_Geek pickled things are like...my favourite food group.
 
Although I don't like milk tea, which is the majority of orders; I prefer the fruit tea
 
I don't mind having to chew things when I drink, but it's not my first choice
 
Sadly, my favorite place in Austin to get some shut down, but they're slated to open a branch here in San Diego
 
11:18 PM
@Ash See that's the thing; I love pickled onions and cabbage.
 
Tea without milk is like beaches without scream.
 
Ash
@Das_Geek I can't do it. Drinks are drinking, food is chewing, I do not like when my drinks want to be a food.
 
But seriously - how many have moved to Codidact and used the same name?
 
Ash
(I have LOTS of weirdness about food!)
 
@Das_Geek Sauerkraut and kimchi are no bueno.
 
Rob
11:20 PM
@Das_Geek worse than using peas or corn, at least those are vegetables
 
Ash
@Catija I'll take yours.
 
You'll have to fight Andy for them.
 
@Rob Wait, peas and corn in tea? Never heard of this
 
Rob
That's why
 
@Ash I guess you're not a fan of the root beer float, then?
 
11:21 PM
@Catija Kimchi is pretty funky, I'll give you that. For sauerkraut you kinda have to like caraway seed flavor
 
Ash
@SonictheAnonymousHedgehog Not really. unless I can let the icecream melt so they're more cohesive.
 
Mmmm, borscht. Growing up that always was a treat; we didn't always have the chance to have meat and that stew was pretty beefy
 
Rob
In North America they make it warm and thick, not thin and cold
 
Claire, the author of that article, has some really interesting op eds. Like how you should replace carrots in your chicken pot pie with turnips
 
Ash
11:27 PM
Now I'm hungry.
 
@Rob Yeah I've had a few versions. I think I prefer the thick one; more satisfying
@Ash Same; counting down the minutes till I'm off work. Then, off to some carbonara and leftover meatloaf at home :D
 
Ash
Hour and a half yet for me, then I will go home and see what is a dinner. (Spouse gets home much earlier, so they usually make the dinnerfood.)
 
I get home later, but I'm usually the cook. That way I have an excuse to not help as much cleaning up :D
That and I find cooking a good way to de-stress/decompress. Just think about stirring the pot and chopping the ingredients
 
Ash
I like the idea of cooking in theory much better than in practice.
 
One of those armchair chefs, are ya? Something like this?
 
Rob
11:33 PM
@Das_Geek Often people mess with tradition to make something better; sometimes it works:
Confit byaldi is a variation on the traditional French dish ratatouille by French chef Michel Guérard. == History == The name is a play on the Turkish dish "İmam bayıldı", which is a stuffed eggplant.The original ratatouille recipe had the vegetables fried before baking. Since at least 1976, some French chefs have prepared the ratatouille vegetables in thin slices instead of the traditional rough-cut. Michel Guérard, in his book founding cuisine minceur (1976), recreated lighter versions of the traditional dishes of nouvelle cuisine. His recipe, Confit bayaldi, differed from ratatouille by not...
 
Ash
@Das_Geek Nah, I can cook and I am reasonable enough at it, I just find it exhausting.
 
@Ash Sorry, that wasn't meant as a tease or to insinuate inability. More of an excuse to share the video :) I feel you on that, especially on weekends, I'm not looking to spend much time in the kitchen
 
Ash
I'd much rather bake things than cook them.
 
That's how my wife is. Would much prefer icing a cake than sauteing an onion
Or similar baking-related tasks
My only real foray into baking was starting a sourdough culture
 
Rob
 
Ash
11:37 PM
I don't like decorating my baking, that's too much fine motor work.
 
Rob
My last attempt at baking
 
@Rob Niiiiice, was that a double-proof dough?
Some decent leoparding going on
 
Ash
@Rob thats a pretty tasty looking attempt
 
One thing that sounds bad at first but is pretty good is grilled pizza. Love that stuff, especially for cracker-thin crusts
 
Rob
No - $5 box of pizza, stick in oven 20 minutes.
 
Ash
11:39 PM
The last thing I baked was cheddar biscuits last night, from a box mix.
 
@Rob Wow, professionally made :P
 
Ash
I was pleased with them
 
Hell yeah; box mix stuff can be really tasty
I only get a little hesitant when I see "all-purpose" baking mixes. They generally tend to make pancakes that are too tough and biscuits that are too floppy
 
Rob
Not worth making from scratch, for that price; or ordering takeout and waiting 10 minutes longer (at 4x the cost).
 
Agreed. Most of the pizza I have is the bargain-brand frozen one at Aldi
 
Rob
11:49 PM
Here's a $3 one, can't beat that: walmart.com/ip/…
 

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