Tavern on the Meta - 2020-01-02 (page 3 of 3)

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8:00 PM

@Tinkeringbell Ack... deleting over misrepresenting the reasons the for mod action would be one thing, but meta.stackexchange.com/questions/336608/… seems like a bad rationale for deletion to me? At least on MSO we discuss mod actions we disagree with all the time. Your take as expressed there is that publicly arguing on Meta against mod actions is wrong in general?

I guess that's not your actual view since, well, you let the original Q stand before the edit. But that's the reason that the comment seems to give.

eh, on SO mods are also elected, so things are a bit different here.

meta.stackexchange.com/questions/336339/…

@JourneymanGeek why was this question deleted?

> Note: This question was deleted for privacy reasons (this was a request that we fulfilled, we didn't initiate it). – Tim Post♦ Dec 11 '19 at 18:32

@MarkAmery Edited the comment.

You're right, I should've mentioned the misrepresentation. Also... just reposting mod-messages isn't going to help 'discuss moderator actions'.

@user400654 - huh. Are MSE mods not? I basically never visited it for years prior to MSO getting crippled and officially ignored by staff a few months ago, so don't know how things work there.

8:04 PM

I'm sure MSO can discuss mod actions... MSE can too, but just reposting your mod-messages in an old question isn't really that.

If you're going to discuss moderator action here, I'd like to at least see a very good counterargument made, not just a mod-message edited into an old question...

@MarkAmery originally, MSE had no mods, it was moderated by the CM team. they then appointed a few mods

@MarkAmery Yeah, users are pretty fond of pointing out the moderators here were appointed not elected when they want to undermine our actions ;)

Don't fall for the trick!

@Tinkeringbell Fair enough. Your comment edit is definitely at least an improvement and far better conveys your justification for deletion now.

Good, thanks for pointing out that I forgot a bit!

And let that serve as an example of mod actions that can be discussed, and how it should be done ;)

@Tinkeringbell ... although I think the link to meta.stackexchange.com/a/28869/200582 is still inappropriate, since the recourses listed there don't include what you and I just did (and since the question is specifically about an abusive moderator, not a moderator acting in good faith but making decisions you think are wrong)

Hmm

Or at least the title of the question is. The body is... broader.

Probably "post on Meta" should just be listed in answer there (and appropriately caveated as necessary)

8:14 PM

And to be honest... While I don't mind discussing moderator actions, when we open a private chatroom or send a mod-message, we kinda do so to communicate privately...

I was already not fond of the question just posting the mod-message for discussion, instead of engaging in moderator messages to clear up the misunderstanding, if there was one.

Having had the pleasure of being on the receiving end of a mod message, they're a poor medium for discussion, unfortunately

You get ONE reply, but there's no indication of that until you send it, as far as I can see

(One reply until the mods respond, that is)

@MarkAmery Hmm. That might need some UI improvement then. I always wondered why so many people wasted a single reply being unconstructive/rude :/

Burn that by saying "Whoa, what?" and your ability to have any discussion is removed forever

I wonder if that'd improve if people knew they have just one shot...

IIRC it looks like you're in a chatroom

But then you type a one sentence reply and... boom, game over

8:17 PM

Never had one, so couldn't tell you. When sending it definitely does look like I'm on a site, not chat...

Let me see if I can still see the UI to remind myself...

Let me know if you can't, I can probably send you a message for science ;)

I posted about it contemporaneously on Meta (aptly given the current topic of conversation) so I guess I can just look through my notifications from that date to find it

Do they go back far enough?

@Tinkeringbell Yeah - the view at stackexchange.com/users/369802/tinkeringbell?tab=inbox goes back forever

Dammit, wrong user ID

Apparently user IDs on SE.com and MSE.com are different :P

8:22 PM

Yep! :)

But I get the gist, I can reach my own from there ;)

But the view you can get to by clicking the "all items" link in the inbox in the top bar goes back forever :P

I must admit I almost never use that site.

@Tinkeringbell That's a really good point. I've never considered that either. And, of course, there's no reason a mod would reply to a message saying "!@#!@^ you" or any other rudeness so the conversation gets killed there.

Yep.

So, it doesn't look like a chatroom per se, looking at it again, but it looks visually a lot like a forum thread or a Facebook Messenger thread or other mediums where you might write long messages with no one-reply restriction. I don't currently have a textbox to send further messages, so I can't rule out that there was some info in there I didn't stop to read in frustration, but I'm pretty sure there wasn't

8:28 PM

Or even replies that just say 'well, you're wrong' without any coherent arguments... there's not much to engage with without rehashing the first message... so often you don't even bother.

@MarkAmery Hmm.

@MarkAmery And even if there is, the UI should probably design around the idea that the user of that box is going to be frustrated as much as possible.

user image

There's all the UI I see as an end-user, besides the textbox

@MarkAmery Oi! What did I just say about posting mod-messages? :P

@Tinkeringbell Considering it was already hashed out at length on MSO I'm not sure this one can do much harm :P

Hmm. Almost tempted to ask Chris to shoot you one last reply there, to see how the UI looks when you can react ;)

8:30 PM

Entertainingly I fit the pattern of "initial reply is snarky and unproductive" quite well :P

@MarkAmery Welcome to the world of stereoptypes, here's your box.

@Tinkeringbell If you'd find it useful, feel free to do so

Depends... I'll see if there's already stuff on MSE. If not, it might be worth a feature request?

*stands on box* *it breaks*

✔️

8:32 PM

@Mithical Hey! No breaking the boxes, you shall be fitted into another one if your that dissatisfied with your current box. But please leave the box for someone that does fit in it!

@MarkAmery That is downright nice compared to some I've gotten/seen lol

@Tinkeringbell NO

*goes on a box-breaking rampage*

@Mithical Aww come on... that was a nice way of saying we all should have our own boxes! :P

-19

Q: Preventing replies until moderators respond is bad; add an edit button

When moderators send a message, the current system only allows you to post a single reply, then prevents you from following up again in any way until a moderator responds first. This is bad because not only are there plenty of reasons that someone may need to post again, but it also allows corru...

feature-request moderator-messages

At least the problem of not so constructive first replies has been known for a while.

@Mithical [starts playing Donkey Kong music]

@Rubiksmoose Hmm. I'll include more commentary on the flaws of the moderator's mother next time.

8:35 PM

@MarkAmery That's more like it. And plenty of 4-letter words.

@MarkAmery Feel free :P I'm sure I can learn something from it when dealing with my mom ;)

→ 1 message moved to Trashcan

> In addition to the existing reply to message option, we will add a very obvious and difficult to miss means to contact us directly in reference to the message. Users will be advised to respond, calmly, to the message explaining why they believe the situation was misconstrued by the moderator, and reminded that they probably want a positive outcome.

Does anyone that ever had a message remember seeing something like that?

(linky)

...no, but it was like four years ago or something

@Tinkeringbell dang I would’ve loved that feature when I got mod messaged...too bad nobody else likes the idea

8:40 PM

@Stormblessed Edits? Maybe, maybe not... edits can also be used like multiple replies... they'd have to somehow notify too, if your first reply was of the kind that goes on the pile ...

Combine that, and you basically have a way of broadcasting the entire urban dictionary at a mod.

@Tinkeringbell oh I meant replying faster

The mods never replied to my message so I was still a bit freaked out for a month

@Stormblessed Ah...

(I don't know what was in the message, nor am I asking... all depends on the reply you gave and what you were freaking out over ;) )

But in general... if you reply and your suspension isn't made longer, you're good ;)

Just don't do the thing you were warned/suspended for again.

@Tinkeringbell yup I haven’t in like 6 months (quite random estimate)

@πάνταῥεῖ bonk

@πάνταῥεῖ dON't mAkE DeCIsIoNS iN cHat!!1!!1

8:47 PM

@Stormblessed *bonk*

@Stormblessed He said please, that leaves room to disagree ;)

πάντα ῥεῖ

Sure, I am always polite ;)

Ehhh. No comment.

πάντα ῥεῖ

Don't judge from my suspension history pls ;-)

Sonic the Anonymous Hedgehog

@EleezatheCharacterWizard You don't mind if I use your profile as an example for a bug report?

8:53 PM

@πάνταῥεῖ Again... no comment :P

But I try not to, promised :)

The first half, yes. There's a line at the bottom, beneath the messages, that says:

"If the moderator team is unable to address your concerns, please contact the Stack Overflow team."

where the phrase "contact the Stack Overflow team" is a link to https://stackoverflow.com/contact

I wonder if I've ever been suspended. It's entirely possible. I'm sure I've deserved it at some point. Perhaps even now...

@canon You can find out easily enough if you ask a mod on every site you're on ;)

@Tinkeringbell The second half, no. I cannot promise you with total certainty that there wasn't some such text that only shows up when it's my turn to reply, but I don't remember any such thing, and I'm 90% sure I would remember it if it had been there

Hmm. Maybe it was uneffective and removed without further ado? :P

9:00 PM

@Tinkeringbell any way to find the message? Inbox doesn’t go so far back, and Safari mobile, where I responded, deletes history every few months (annoyingly without having any setting to stop it, AFAIK)

Oh network profile goes far back

@Stormblessed Mark just said a few messages above: If you go to stackexchange.com, go to your user profile page there and click the inbox tab... you can see all items?

I see pages though, not a very big list...

Sonic the Anonymous Hedgehog

@canon You can also find out if you've been suspended in the past year by attempting to nominate in a moderator election anywhere

@Tinkeringbell @canon Do a Ctrl+F search for "moderator message"

@canon Okay, after that edit... whatdidyado!?

Sonic the Anonymous Hedgehog

Note that if your account is removed with one of the options that levies a 14-day suspension, there won't be a message for that suspension.

> If the moderator team is unable to address your concerns, please contact the Stack Overflow team.

@Tinkeringbell see above

Eleeza the Character Wizard

9:09 PM

@SonictheAnonymousHedgehog ...what's the bug? Why is my profile involved?

@Stormblessed Hmm.

That was below my reply

Yeah, I was wondering what people that still have a reply left see...

It was back on page 131 of Network inbox...I'd never have gotten there if it weren't for Samuel Liew's great userscript

github.com/samliew/SO-mod-userscripts/blob/master/…

Hmm. What does it do?

Oh wait, it's in the comments XD

9:15 PM

@Tinkeringbell github.com/samliew/…

up to 30 between them

That looks good :)

Anyhow, I'm going to finish crocheting this square before bedtime.

Eleeza the Character Wizard

@SonictheAnonymousHedgehog Because, sorry, I don't really let people use my profile info in stuff...even if it's a bug report....ehh...

If anyone gets a moderator message in the near future, remember to take a screenshot of what you see before you reply and think about how that could/should be improved to make your replies more constructive? :P

@Tinkeringbell just my general air of snark and vitriol. A unisex fragrance by canon.

@canon If the correct filters are applied, pollution can be prevented ;)

Sonic the Anonymous Hedgehog

9:20 PM

@EleezatheCharacterWizard Spoilers

Clicking a spoiler in a post will make it show permanently, but the same doesn't hold true for user profiles.

Just add one on your own, make the report, remove the spoiler?

Sonic the Anonymous Hedgehog

Yeah, I guess I could do that. My main concern was, however, I want the problem to continue to be visible live, and I don't want to keep it in my profile forever, so I wanted to use someone else's profile that likely has a permanent spoiler in it.

It's not like this bug where it's profile-specific in a way that you must link to a specific profile and can't reliably demonstrate on yours.

Eleeza the Character Wizard

Ohh it's the spoiler, not the actual info or anything?

Sonic the Anonymous Hedgehog

No, just an issue with the spoiler.

Not something to report about the content itself.

Eleeza the Character Wizard

Then I guess if it's just that then I'm okay with it

Sonic the Anonymous Hedgehog

9:30 PM

I thought about creating an alternate account for the sole purpose of providing a permanent profile to have a reproducible case, but in order for it to have a back link to the bug report, it needs to have 10 rep

Eleeza the Character Wizard

Maybe that should be a feature request, a profile kinda like user Community which we can use to report profile bugs?

Sonic the Anonymous Hedgehog

-1

Q: Spoilers in user profiles don't show permanently once they are clicked, unlike for posts

When mousing over spoiler markup, the text underneath it shows temporarily, disappearing when you move your mouse cursor away from it. Additionally, you can click it to make it keep showing even after you move your mouse away (a second click will hide it again). To demonstrate, here's some exam...

bug profile-page spoilers

Eleeza the Character Wizard

So that's how bug reports are done...I actually didn't know that

Sonic the Anonymous Hedgehog

And yeah, rather minor bugs that people believe aren't worth the team's time tend to be downvoted, despite the team saying that they prefer such reports:

@allquixotic The great thing about trivial issues is that they're super easy and trivial to fix. We'd rather folks reported problems (even if we aren't going to address them) than decided they weren't important enough and never let us know. — Adam Lear ♦ Apr 4 '14 at 23:14

Eleeza the Character Wizard

Hmm, it is the small details that get overlooked but they are important

Sonic the Anonymous Hedgehog

9:36 PM

I'm one who frequently notices small incorrect details, though to a lesser degree than one other prolific bug filer

10:19 PM

Why was meta.stackexchange.com/q/339137 deleted?

Oh dupe

yep roomba'd

Apparently, you can't see deleted posts... where are you getting these links from? Should stuff be edited?

10:41 PM

🤓

Sonic the Anonymous Hedgehog

11:29 PM

@JourneymanGeek Spam account: meta.stackexchange.com/users/678438/wifiboost

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