Tavern on the Meta

Sébastien Renauld

11:00

@OrangeDog The ultimate corporate world: 911 does not accept friend requests but most operators do, and 911 is friends with operators. Get ready to pay $$$$ to your operator to contact 911

Magisch

Thats the way OP finds these to report btw - go on any site, refresh a couple times

user1306322

honestly if you're not using an ad blocker as any kind of internet browsing user, you're doing yourself a disservice and putting yourself at an unnecessary risk of cross-site tracking and feeding the ad corporations your interests for free

Sébastien Renauld

Also, could they not have a cohort of users "previewing" the ads

user1306322

so my advice in any cases regarding any kinds of ads - install ad blockers

Sébastien Renauld

as in, toggle a flag somewhere, you get the "unverified" ads and a new ad queue + something for the carrot

StephanS

11:01

@SébastienRenauld no because they don't trust us. i thought the new coc made that clear

Sébastien Renauld

if nobody from that cohort flagged an ad for X views, then it goes on the main cohort

Magisch

even spam is only removed in timely manner from SE because the users do it

user1306322

but I doubt that would survive as an answer for long, so I'm just telling you here (it's gonna be our little secret :x)

Magisch

most of the automation to get rid of spam is 100% user created and maintained

Sébastien Renauld

@StephanS they probably think seeing playboy models is good for us

Sklivvz

11:02

Also, it looks like you Ad team has stopped caring about obnoxious animated ads, @Shog9

Shadow

@Magisch no cigar, tried that also, never got to the bad ads posted in MSE. But I do believe those who report of course.

@Sklivvz umm it's officially allowed now.

Magisch

they did say animated ads are now considered OK

Shadow

-130

A: NSFW video and annoying animated advertising on Music SE

We do intend to display animated ads on Stack Exchange. However, jarring and wiggling ads will be blocked and removed from our properties. Thank you for reporting.

Sébastien Renauld

Not getting ads at all on some sites on incognito

Hell yeah

StephanS

if you look that the ads being posted they're on mobile

Sébastien Renauld

11:06

Animated pampers ad on the workplace

I know work typically is a shitshow, but still

Shadow

@SébastienRenauld hey I use pampers

I mean buy

for my toddler

Sébastien Renauld

The closest I have to a toddler is a cat

Shadow

@SébastienRenauld potty trained?

user1306322

@Shadow nice avatar btw

Sébastien Renauld

Evidently

and about to be renamed to Houdini soon

she breaks out of and into stuff

she figured out how to unlock and open the front door

user1306322

11:07

we'll remember your name in the HALL OF FAME

Shadow

@SébastienRenauld wow smart cat

user1306322

@SébastienRenauld may I recommend a youtube channel? youtube.com/channel/UCm9K6rby98W8JigLoZOh6FQ/videos

Shadow

Reminds me of the white mice in The Guide

@user1306322 thanks? Might be premature though, I'm in Grace Period

Sébastien Renauld

@user1306322 I know it

Sklivvz

@Shadow I know and it sucks, but not obnoxious ones

Shadow

11:10

@Sklivvz any animation is obnoxious.

Sklivvz

I would say a fade in is tolerable

Shadow

If you allow one, you allow them all.

Sklivvz

Of course, which is why they never did before

Shadow

@Sklivvz well that's not really animation.

It's CSS effect.

That I can tolerate too, agree.

Sébastien Renauld

@Shadow tbh this one is more appropriate: youtube.com/channel/UCpLQXR116cLVUa1LRY8KS4w

Shadow

11:13

@SébastienRenauld hmm?

End Game instead of Game Over?

Sébastien Renauld

We had the locking/unlocking from the lockpicking lawyer, and now we have the cat

Feeds

stackoverflow.blog/2019/10/15/…

2

StephanS

@Shadow You mean CSS the hacking language, you shouldn't mess with that, I hear people break into websites using that and inspect.

user1306322

@Feeds This content is not available in your country.

StephanS

it's crazy

user1306322

11:15

spotify link: Sorry, couldn't find that.

overcast.fm/+UwBrtOquA works for me

Magisch

@Sklivvz Do you honestly think they have the human capacity to police an ad network?

Sklivvz

@Magisch they claim they do

Shadow

@Sklivvz lol

Magisch

they claim lots of things most of which are lets say overly optimistic

Sklivvz

I don't believe they care at all, but that would be just the old me being negative

user1306322

11:18

@Sklivvz nobody who claims that deserves trust lol

you can't expect good from a profit-oriented business, ever. Look around, look in the news -- environment issues, political conflicts, censorship, in some countries incarceration is even done for profit. It's a sad state of affairs but the world is slowly changing. Also don't actually go on any news sites today if you're not feeling well already :)

I'm wondering how much of how Wikipedia is governed can be adapted into a new, better version of SE network

4

Sklivvz

@user1306322 not all "for profit" groups depend on millions of volunteers

user1306322

it seems too complicated for me to understand at the moment but I'll keep reading

Firefox and its parent companies have a bit of a complicated relationship

Magisch

I've said this before but the only reason, the one USP keeping costs down, their saving grace is the core community

user1306322

some of them are for profit, some not, idk how it feels to the average contributor in that ecosystem

StephanS

@Feeds it was eh

user1306322

11:24

@StephanS did you listen at 4x speed?

Magisch

If they manage to completly scare it off or, to say it in more succinct words make us "remove our problematic selves", then a lot of reasons why SE works cease to function

StephanS

@user1306322 2x

user1306322

wow

I like to leave myself some time to think over what is being said between the uhms

Magisch

→ 1 message moved to Trashcan

→ 2 messages moved to Trashcan

202324

hey I had starred those

want my stars back

:P

user1306322

11:26

stars are overrated

202324

GitHub stars, yes.

I mean, the whole of GitHub.

StephanS

@user1306322 there wasn't really anything insightful to take in, it was just commentary

user1306322

I like to gauge people's personal character by their speech patterns and word choices so it's of interest to me

StephanS

@SearchAndResQ don't talk in this room, keep your number

David A

@user1306322 Wikipedia does have some interesting approaches. For instance, they can issue topic bans and interaction bans (sort of like judicial restraining orders).

user1306322

11:30

wow that's a lot of days ago

OrangeDog

Wikipedia's legal system is equivalent to a small nation-state

user1306322

@DavidA I would not be against someone compiling an easy to digest overview of Wikipedia's systems as a meta discussion for all to consider :p

as a comparative with SE's of course, to stay on topic and have valid context

you know, to weigh pros and cons

are there any experienced wikipedians among our users here who can shed some light on how Wikipedia works?

OrangeDog

I don't know how much has changed in the last 10 years...

user1306322

well, here… we know what changed lol

OrangeDog

This would be the entry-point
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution

Magisch

11:35

wikipedia has recently started its own welcome wagon though

user1306322

dat prominent "Assume good faith" in the right sidebox…

4

OrangeDog

If an admin (of which there are various kinds) cannot resolve a dispute then there's a "supreme court" with a pretty formal process, tons of case law, etc.

Magisch

@OrangeDog yet they recently banned and desysopped someone completly bypassing the arbcom process and dispute resolution processes because that someone ran afoul of the spouse of one of the board members

StephanS

@Magisch I don't understand, these QnA sites do understand we all work for free.

OrangeDog

There have even been "constitutional crises" when the "monarch" was found to have bypassed the "judiciary" and "legislature"

Magisch

11:39

some 40 admins resigned at wikipedia over it, and the community elected board members had to pitch a fit to cause the T&S team to agree their case files could be reviewed by arbcom

and all of arbcom had to threaten to resign in an open letter

OrangeDog

@Magisch sounds fun, as I mentioned I've not been involved for that least ~10 years

user1306322

does Wikipedia's contributions license allow for content reuse on other platforms? (with attribution to original editors/source)

OrangeDog

@user1306322 it's CC-BY-SA 3.0, so yes

user1306322

oh nice so it's the same as here

Magisch

also this: meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2018-20/… is a strategy paper from one of the working groups that details a proposed pivot to a more top down decision model and the implementation of a code of conduct across all projects

meaning WP is going down exactly the same path :)

David A

11:41

In the end, everything was resolved somewhat amicably. The admin in question got unbanned but not reinstated as an admin (and a petition to the community to be reinstated got denied, so he has come to terms with the fact that his behavior was not up to standards).

OrangeDog

-297

Q: Stack Exchange and Stack Overflow have moved to CC BY-SA 4.0

Effective today, all Subscriber Content on Stack Overflow and the Stack Exchange network will be available under the terms of version 4.0 of the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike (CC BY-SA) license. This change follows our last Terms Of Service (ToS) update where we inadvertently introduce...

Magisch

@DavidA nah. They relented now because their community threatend to tear itself apart. But none of the actual concerns were resolved

user1306322

@OrangeDog I suppose my contributions since that announcement would be under 4.0, but prior ones are still 3.0, as I did not explicitly receive a relicensing request and therefore could not agree to it, which I wouldn't anyway.

OrangeDog

@user1306322 that is exactly everyone's point that SE refuses to address

user1306322

they're refusing to address many points

Luuklag

11:43

@OrangeDog Was there ever any further response on that thread from Tim et. al.?

user1306322

not yet, but keep an eye on thursday announcements :p

OrangeDog

@Luuklag Tim's response is there. That's all.

SPArchaeologist-様

@SébastienRenauld as I said in a Meta post, the Google Ads platform does indeed provide age and content category filtering. You just have to actually enable them.

OrangeDog

Quickly eclipsed by the next debacle of course
https://meta.stackexchange.com/q/333965/155659

user1306322

also, how funny is that -- promised not to ship on Fridays anymore, but picked the next closest day that isn't on weekend? That's straight out of a comedy show

David A

11:45

All they need to do is track the license of each comment/post and ask people to bulk-relicense their stuff when logging in. Editing a post creates a derivative work which can be licensed under the new CC (upgrading it on the spot), but older revisions might be a problem.

Sklivvz

@DavidA that means keeping the old license forever

OrangeDog

Also meta.stackexchange.com/q/333678/155659

@Sklivvz yes, that's how licensing works

David A

For inactive users unfortunately. :-(

Luuklag

@DavidA Have the community user make trivial edits

OrangeDog

@Luuklag like replace all pronouns?

Luuklag

11:47

@OrangeDog Ah yeah I see, legal is "on-board". So they think they are in their rights.

OrangeDog

@Luuklag no, they never said (that I can see) legal was "on-board"

user1306322

@OrangeDog nah people have already voiced their concern about the network misrepresenting them by "editing words into their mouths" (I get that was a joke but it's something people think has merit, and there is this counter-argument to that)

Sébastien Renauld

Actually...

OrangeDog

we assume because answering the question would be an admission of fault, causing them to immediately lose the resulting lawsuits

Sébastien Renauld

If I make a derivative work of somebody's CC-BY-SA 3.0, surely I have to pick the same license (due to the license choice)

i.e. ShareAlike — If you remix, transform, or build upon the material, you must distribute your contributions under the same license as the original.

David A

11:50

@SébastienRenauld actually you don't. You can pick a later version that isn't meaningfully different, like 4.0.

user1306322

(I'm not that deep into Creative Commons legal lore so I can't comment on that)

Sébastien Renauld

@DavidA Are you sure? I can't find anything going either way on this one

David A

Only pedants care about this stuff, but the SE userbade i

OrangeDog

@SébastienRenauld "You may Distribute or Publicly Perform an Adaptation only under the terms of: (i) this License; (ii) a later version of this License with the same License Elements as this License; (iii) a Creative Commons jurisdiction license (either this or a later license version) that contains the same License Elements as this License (e.g., Attribution-ShareAlike 3.0 US)); (iv) a Creative Commons Compatible License."

David A

Only pedants care about this stuff, but the SE userbase is notoriously pedantic.

M.A.R.

11:53

@AndrasDeak Aw, that's touching

. . . stop poking

OrangeDog

12

Q: Can I "upgrade" the version of CC BY-SA from 3.0 to 4.0 in my modification?

What I'm doing: I'm adapting a work licensed under CC BY-SA 3.0 Unported license to a different language. I'm indicating the original work and its license. I'm indicating that I have made changes to it. Can I release my modified version of the license under CC BY-SA 4.0 or do I have to licens...

license-compatibility creative-commons cc-by-sa

M.A.R.

@DavidA Any sort of intelligent community on the internet trying to sound more profound than a dancing donkey is pedantic.

OrangeDog

@DavidA all licensing becomes meaningless if companies are allowed to voilate them without repercussion

M.A.R.

Except no-license licensing

user1306322

they aren't allowed tho

M.A.R.

11:56

I know, right! But it makes more sense than this current situation.

OrangeDog

they are currently being allowed to do so

user1306322

I'm gonna be watching the news headlines for the inevitable mention of the network's name in the coming weeks

OrangeDog

they're doing it right now and are not being stopped

user1306322

criminals are allowed to do crimes, doesn't mean they won't be punished by law tho :p

it's a contract of sorts

do this crime - pay this much in money or freedom loss

OrangeDog

is SE being punished by law right now?

user1306322

11:57

not today I think :D

and we can't exactly ask them for updates on when they're gonna get into legal trouble

Sklivvz

oh boy if that can of worms gets opened

CC-WIKI does not really support software snippets for example...

so -- theoretically -- people should not be copying and pasting from Stack Oveflow

OrangeDog

520

Q: The MIT License – Clarity on Using Code on Stack Overflow and Stack Exchange

Update (Dec. 22, 2015): Thanks, everyone, for your feedback to this proposal. We're going to digest this one over the holidays and should have a follow-up announcement answering your questions and addressing your concerns after the new year. We won't be making any hurried decisions on this top...

discussion licensing creative-commons

N.B. the promised follow-up was then not implemented

Magisch

licensing in general is a trash fire I like to avoid as much as possible anyways

Sklivvz

"The changes proposed here have been delayed indefinitely"

Magisch

everything not for hire I do is cc0 the "just use it and leave me alone" license

Sklivvz

12:00

I remember, I was working for SE at the time. Poor Sam.

user1306322

I'm majorly looking forward to a brand new society and legal code being formed on Mars and Moon colonies in the future, it's gonna be interesting what they come up with. Perhaps it could be a "be nice" policy mediated by a reasonably intelligent AI

Shadow

@Sklivvz waffles?? Why?

user1306322

without all that crust of the real world legal systems which is in many places vague, unclear and can be played around

Shadow

@user1306322 Trump will impose sanctions even on those colonies.

M.A.R.

@Shadow No, Branding department

Sklivvz

12:01

@Shadow Sam Brand, not Sam Saffron

Shadow

@M.A.R. oh

user1306322

@Shadow idk if we'll still care about what he says in a year or so, much less at the time of colony foundations

Shadow

@Sklivvz he still works for SE?

David A

@user1306322 Based on past experience, the only way I see this blowing up in the media is someone creating a twitter storm or forwarding it to Vice, Vox, or Gizmodo.

Sklivvz

@Shadow neither does

user1306322

12:02

@DavidA buzzfeed writers are already onto this

Shadow

@user1306322 we will. He'll be elected again, I bet on that.

David A

Possibly Breitbart, but who cares about them.

StephanS

@Magisch isn't that an apache license? (I don't know much about licenses)

M.A.R.

@Shadow ice cream?

Magisch

cc0 is a public domain dedication

OrangeDog

12:03

@StephanS the CC stands for Creative Commons...

David A

The Wikipedia story got covered in Buzzfeed, Breitbart, and Slate.

Magisch

one of the breitbart editors is on wikipedia

thats why

I hope they leave this well enough alone, breitbart is a trash fire

OrangeDog

@Magisch importantly, also with a liability waiver

M.A.R.

@Magisch Tin Tin's dog?

user1306322

ok I really gotta eat now, so later

David A

12:05

Wikipedia actually blocks links to Breitbart as an unreliable source.

Anything they do cover that's newsworthy should be picked up by someone else with better standards.

M.A.R.

Well, I'm not an American or an economist, but they said he's made things better (whatever that means) with the exception of healthcare.

David A

?

rene

@user1306322 guten appetit

David A

Oh POTUS.

M.A.R.

I'm not unaccustomed to people voting for someone that leaves with them with a full stomach even if they have "ideological differences"

Americans would do it. Iranians would do it. Plutoians would do it.

BTW, what a bunch of jerks, Plutoians.

David A

12:12

@M.A.R. they have a right to be jerks. We did demote their planet after all.

M.A.R.

Don't ever go there.

PM 2Ring

@M.A.R. Hey, Plutoians are cool.

M.A.R.

HOLY

6

Q: I'm resigning as a Stack Overflow Comunity Elected Moderator

I'm resigning as a Stack Overflow Moderator. Thank you to everyone who has worked hard to make this Q&A site what it is. I'm resigning for three reasons: Stack Overflow Inc. has forgotten how to lead, how to persuade, and how to talk with the community. This has been a slow decline since 2014...

discussion moderators

5

Surprised. For probably the second time since last month.

@PM2Ring They're xenophobic

David A

I am more and more thankful every day that I do not have a public-facing job.

Autar

Same :|

M.A.R.

12:16

"Facing" shivers

Shadow

@M.A.R. nah. 10000 rep.

M.A.R.

@Shadow That's not fair

If I traveled back in time to, heck, even when Welcome Wagon started, and told you about the events of Sep 2019, would you have believed me?

That's a Crick question.

He asked it before discovering DNA.

Shadow

@M.A.R. nope

M.A.R.

No, really, he did ask it

Shadow

Those who would, are now network wide suspended, probably.

Mgetz

12:19

@M.A.R. depends, if you look at what Jeff and Joel were originally trying to make then yes I would have believed you. Because what's happening is in direct conflict with the platform's original intent

M.A.R.

@Shadow Suspensions are way cooler than emulsions

We have been emulsified, brother.

That's so deep. Someone cool said that ^

Especially the "brother" part

David A

@M.A.R. twitter.com/gortok/status/1183735151773343747

Andras Deak

@DavidA now there's two Magisches!

M.A.R.

@DavidA funny thing, I dreamed Twitter oneboxes work yesterday

LinkBerest

@rene and now I have Under Pressure stuck in my head

at least its an awesome song :)

rene

12:25

you're welcome

OrangeDog

I don't understand why Twitter looks completely different when you're logged-in vs out

Journeyman Geek

@M.A.R. actually - that's his last name

Shadow

@M.A.R. if I'd ask you to call me "sister" instead.... what will you do? ;)

M.A.R.

@Shadow okay brother Sister

Shadow

@M.A.R. flags

M.A.R.

12:27

ಠ_ಠ

Shadow

that face

Will miss that

M.A.R.

Nah, I miss Will.

Shadow

@DavidA 1447 followers. Not nearly enough.

M.A.R.

We need more borderline. There's too much white and black in the world anymore.

OrangeDog

flagged for racism

Journeyman Geek

12:29

@Shadow Yo sis.

StephanS

what did I just come back to

Magisch

@M.A.R. shit

Thats gonna leave a really hard to fill void

M.A.R.

So, maybe we'd need ETAs for the next mod meta post on meta.SO after this.

Journeyman Geek

@Magisch Unfortunately - that's the one place where I actually hope SO listens.

M.A.R.

9 days

21 minutes

30 seconds

65 days

Shadow

12:31

@JourneymanGeek yo yo

Journeyman Geek

ma?

Shadow

@JourneymanGeek mama?

M.A.R.

@JourneymanGeek He means meta.SO. 37 minutes

LinkBerest

@M.A.R. I'm not - that last policy change on Meta.SO was rough......and then this happened

Journeyman Geek

@LinkBerest its been a lot of rough changes and... lots of neglect

And well, basically throwing in breaking changes atop breaking changes

M.A.R.

12:32

@LinkBerest You're not resigning from Stack Overflow Community Elected Moderator?

LinkBerest

yeah, but that was the only time I remember seeing the community at large arguing with the moderators or moderators public arguing with each other (and staff publicly arguing with moderators)

M.A.R.

SOCEM.

SOC 'EM. SOC 'EM all to hell.

LinkBerest

<- not a moderator so no?...huh?

M.A.R.

I need that line in a movie

Magisch

@JourneymanGeek This is the point where they have to

I hope

Journeyman Geek

12:34

@Magisch I don't know

OrangeDog

@Magisch why weren't any of the previous points?

LinkBerest

granted, I'm only really active on like 4 sites but that was by far the worst case I saw (outside SE staff on this Meta)

Journeyman Geek

@LinkBerest eh, While people are angry, it is literally a direct result of these events.

LinkBerest

@DavidA I have a public facing job and its why I had to change my username and picture (I used to trust that being active on SE was a positive but not since last year)

David A

10 years ago I would have used my full name. Not anymore.

Journeyman Geek

12:37

I've never seen posts with thousands of votes anywhere

M.A.R.

@JourneymanGeek Stack Overflow

LinkBerest

@JourneymanGeek yeah, I'm not saying it contributed. I'm saying that I'm not surprised just because of how tired all the mods must be (and esp. SO mods due to my involvement in that site)

M.A.R.

@LinkBerest If you didn't get any of my messages they're safely ignorable

They're mostly placebo

Shadow

@M.A.R. stackoverflow.com/search?q=score%3A10000..

StephanS

@JourneymanGeek look, I still think there should be a badge for this

Journeyman Geek

12:39

@LinkBerest That's not the only reason they're tired though

@StephanS we do not shame people for stuff like this

People have bad days, weeks... sometimes months

M.A.R.

@Shadow Stack Overflow

StephanS

:p

M.A.R.

@JourneymanGeek bad centuries, if you're a Cerberus

OrangeDog

@StephanS stackoverflow.com/help/badges/38/peer-pressure

LinkBerest

yeah, just this one did not surprise me (personally). There are a lot of reasons tiring people out and I just happened to be involved in that one (of many - I just remember it getting heated between users and moderators and that's rare for me to see)

Journeyman Geek

12:41

@LinkBerest we're only human

We lose our tempers sometimes, we argue

user194636

@JourneymanGeek woof?

Magisch

George was one of the most vocal leaders in the SO community

Journeyman Geek

But I'd say, pretty much every moderator now cares deeply for the network or humans

LinkBerest

George gives his reasons and I respect them (not arguing that it was that or that it was even handled badly ---- just one more reason to be tired out really)

M.A.R.

@PaulWhite he means figurative

Magisch

12:41

And ironically was everything I wish SE management would be

Journeyman Geek

@PaulWhite wauzers have been known to hold grudges for over a decade

user194636

noted

M.A.R.

Meh, grudges are overrated

Now whether you keep a machine gun in your garage changes things

LinkBerest

@JourneymanGeek you can read my full response if you want. I don't hold a grudge and still think we wanted the same thing in the end

Journeyman Geek

(I have to keep my dog away from the cleaning supervisor if my dad is overseas cause of that one time he kept teasing my dog... he nearly got bit)

M.A.R.

12:43

Unless you have a grudge against machine guns

Journeyman Geek

@LinkBerest is a dog joke

LinkBerest

sigh its hard to tell with you sometimes ;) :)

M.A.R.

@JourneymanGeek What if Berest is a wau- . . . that

Howzer. I keep thinking of Howzer

LinkBerest

<- bulldog

M.A.R.

↑↓→← for your convenience

May I carry your bags?

djsmiley2k

12:45

BA<kbd>start</kbd>

M.A.R.

Hides pistol behind his back

Shadow

pushing flowers into @M.A.R.'s pistol instead of bullets

Mgetz

bleh, soo much I've left unsaid over the past few weeks as I've watched the bridges to the community get systematically burned one by one, in effect with the CMs standing on them.

M.A.R.

Wow, you just killed rene

This is what online friends are worth, people.

@Mgetz Shog can float

Journeyman Geek

@M.A.R. that's a howitzer ;p

StephanS

12:47

@M.A.R. friends? this is a room full of chatbots

Mgetz

@M.A.R. but can he float in a river of toxic waste alone? There isn't enough whiskey in the world for that.

Shadow

@M.A.R. with so much crap around now, he'll be overwhelmed by the smell alone though.

StephanS

that's why we never leave

M.A.R.

@M.A.R. fifth time's a charm

@JourneymanGeek oh right. Him

Journeyman Geek

@Mgetz for all that's happened, I still think that the CMs are the one bright spark, and the only reason the network got to where it is, or could survive

djsmiley2k

12:48

<-- Angry turtle.

rene

@M.A.R. R.I.P.

Journeyman Geek

they're seriously underappreciated

M.A.R.

@JourneymanGeek this is common knowledge by now

Mgetz

@JourneymanGeek They are, and yet they are being undermined actively. I personally wouldn't stick around for that.

David A

meta.stackoverflow.com/a/390430/7077511 ugh

Sklivvz

12:49

@JourneymanGeek some CMs are awesome but I've seen abuse coming from other CMs

Journeyman Geek

@Mgetz They could probably fix most of the big stuff in 2-3 weeks with enough support. Give a good answer to the CC changes backed up by legal, handle the pissed off mods...

@Sklivvz eh, I kinda mean a few specific folks ;p

M.A.R.

@Mgetz Alternative energy sources

Journeyman Geek

You probably know who I exclude, vaguely

M.A.R.

OMG who's Vaguely

Journeyman Geek

The on the ground folks are good

Mgetz

12:50

@JourneymanGeek yes but until they stop getting undermined, nothing they do is going to matter. We the community need to be able to know that they won't get undercut and that they have the authority to manage they community as appropriate.

M.A.R.

Is it pronounced Wage-Lee or Wag-Lee?

Journeyman Geek

@Mgetz and that's been happening steadily over quite a long time

and getting the company to see that feels impossible

Mgetz

The point stands, we the community might support our CMs. But if the CMs are trying to stand on ground that's constantly shifting it's a losing proposition for all involved.

M.A.R.

Imagine pulling a rug under Shog

And it's downhill.

Hilarity ensues

Journeyman Geek

@Mgetz I don't see a stratergy here though

Mgetz

12:53

@M.A.R. unless it's the alpine slide I can't see that working

@JourneymanGeek I don't either; I see random kneejerk reactions that the CMs are being asked to cover for when they don't appear to have been involved

Journeyman Geek

@Mgetz which is annoying too

David A

Tim, George, and Monica are all commenting in that answer, but at least it's staying civil.

M.A.R.

@Mgetz head physics

Journeyman Geek

@DavidA they're all the grownups of the network ;p

I'd expect nothing less

M.A.R.

@DavidA which?

Shadow

12:54

@DavidA They're all civil people, even when smacked in the face. That's admirable.

M.A.R.

HEY. I can be a grownup

David A

-6

A: I'm resigning as a Stack Overflow Community Elected Moderator

I'm really sorry to see you go. It's difficult for me to envision the office without you. I'm also sorry that you feel the way you do about the proposed procedures. They're still open for feedback, we've got the condensed text versions to clear up some ambiguities in the charts ready to go out ...

OrangeDog

@DavidA +20/-27

Magisch

It's not tim's fault that he has to defend the indefensible

LinkBerest

hmm...wish I had more than bold or italics for emphasis on comments (tends to either look like shouting or just blend in too much) - way low priority I know but I just noticed it

Mgetz

12:56

@DavidA That really shouldn't be downvoted IMO

David A

@Mgetz Agreed.

LinkBerest

In my opinion it should be DVed (I also commented on why)

M.A.R.

@LinkBerest the whole UI is a mess

David A

Downvotes are too often used to express "I don't like it."

M.A.R.

It was never meant to be that long, or something you'd need to extract information from

David A

12:57

I try to at least upvote if something is useful on-balance.

M.A.R.

@DavidA Metaaaaa . . .

Journeyman Geek

> I hate how everything happened too. I've been literally sick about it for the last few weeks, but it is also a very rare anomaly when it comes to moderation here. It is very rare that a moderator is asked to step down for reasons other than vanishing

M.A.R.

I sound like Journey

Magisch

@JourneymanGeek Maybe true, the real issues run years back

M.A.R.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think there was a procedure and they just swallowed the diamonds for dinner. What's different this time?

2

Journeyman Geek

12:58

@M.A.R. hmm

There's a precedure mod mods recalling another mod, so to speak

Magisch

And if George can't summon the faith in the system to trust it going forward, who honestly can?

M.A.R.

P.S. we have loads of proverbs in Persian and Turkish for "a remedy after someone has died"

Journeyman Geek

@Magisch the ball is not in our court

David A

@M.A.R. "A day late and a dollar short"?

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