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10:02 AM
lmaooo
the coc post went about as i expected
 
if there was a street with potholes, and the potholes were actually dumpsters, and they were on fire
SE would be the person doing their utmost to step into each pothole
when ordinary people would do the opposite
 
I'm not particularly sure this is something to gloat about
 
i'm not gloating
 
while chanting with each step "now you have retroactively agreed to these terms for your previous"
 
10:04 AM
i just find it hella funny
 
works..
 
Any advice how you think they can forward is appreciated I guess
 
sometimes you can't do anything about a situation except sit back, laugh at it, and wait to see how it develops. this is one of those times.
 
Okay, your position on the matter is noted.
 
rene, it's not that i'm actively here to troll or derogate. it'as more that literally everything i could say has already been said by people far more articulate than me, and most of it was said months ago. so there's nothing that i can offer, except wondering who all is in the same boat and seeing if we can have a chuckle together
 
10:11 AM
@IanKemp I donno man. That's literally what it feels like
 
user351483
I've done a lot of things about this situation, but laughing isn't one of them.
 
likewise
 
@IanKemp it comes across as if you were actively here to troll and derogate. I'm glad you assured us that is not the case.
 
What could they do? They could do outreach with the current mods - offer to get htem together in person and speak to them, or via skype/webex or whatever.
 
user351483
I've had about four weeks of headache about this, punctuated by about two days of hope.
 
10:13 AM
They could actively be seen to be 'listening' to us.
Right now, as an outsider (i.e. not a mod) to lil' old me, it seems the mod say stuff, SE ignores them and carries on.
 
@djsmiley2k that was actually mentioned on Meta (townhall style) and Sara liked it.
 
It looks like someone up high has an agenda to push, and damn the consequences.
 
@djsmiley2k cough IPO cough
 
user206222
[sigh] and we're back to this.
 
@IanKemp Oh yes, I know.
 
user206222
10:14 AM
It was a lovely few hours, y'all. I'm gonna go.
 
my workplace is currently feeling very much the same and if this is how the staff there, in general feel, I feel bad for them too.
@Aza sorry, you expect the biggest impacting change in the history of SE to not be being discussed here?
 
@djsmiley2k while that is possible, it still is an agenda that is worth following. Not sure if this is the right path, denying that it should be on the table isn't productive either.
 
@rene Then they should say so.
Rather than "This is better for you".
 
user206222
Back to the Queer Agenda, back to money motivations, back to...
 
user206222
It was a nice few hours, when we were chatting about how to make progress in a community, without all that.
 
10:16 AM
I know whatever they say, people are going to go crazy and riot - no one will calmly go 'Ok, it's time for me to get off this bus'.
 
@djsmiley2k I can't speak for Aza, but this place has been going in circles quite a lot over the last few weeks. Once is a ride, twice gets the adrenaline going, but keep it going and there's dizziness and vomit all over. ;)
 
@Aza if you assume our opposition to extremely sweeping, well-nigh-unenforcable, almost-entirely-subjective rules is predicated on bigotry, then there is no further discussion to be had here
 
1 message moved from Tavern on the Meta
 
11:00 AM
38 messages moved from Tavern on the Meta
 
 
2 hours later…
1:12 PM
Regarding that chat link posted above, I think it's not all that unusual for someone on the autism spectrum to almost obsessively probe all the edge and corner cases of an argument. It sometimes comes across as trolling, but might actually just be a way of thoroughly exploring a topic.
 
user384163
@DavidA After the XX / XY comment that was deleted I am not obliged to believe that.
 
In any case, I think we should drop this, as it's approaching discussing a particular user and that's something we should avoid.
 
user384163
@user58 Understood
 
user384163
@user58 Mind deleting my comment?
 
5 messages moved from Tavern on the Meta
 
1:40 PM
i thought that was removed? oh ffs
/me goes to remove
 
4 messages moved from Tavern on the Meta
 
 
4 hours later…
6:00 PM
@RobertHarvey let's not get into this
 
2 messages moved from Tavern on the Meta
 
 
2 hours later…
user102937
8:13 PM
@MetaAndrewT. No. They've just been overrun by SJW's. Looking at their Twitter feeds tells you all you need to know about their beliefs.
 
@RobertHarvey As much as people might share the sentiment, the term SJW is probably unhelpful.
 
Words cannot describe: imgur.com/vP8T2fV
 
Extremely unhelpful
 
user102937
@DavidA Yeah, knew someone was gonna say that. If you have a better, more "politically correct" term to describe the same, I'd love to hear it.
 
@RobertHarvey Perhaps a reference to the "Bay-area echo-chamber" would at least have some novelty.
 
8:15 PM
Overeager justice stompers
 
@Shog9 Any chance you can get some interim mods on MSE for the meantime?
The place is becoming a sewer and we're all powerless to stop it
 
user102937
"Bay-Area Echo Chamber." I like that. You realize, though, that someone already finds that offensive, right?
 
user204841
@Shog9 That still just meant a lot right now. Thanks.
 
user102937
Just shut MSE down. Nobody is listening.
 
^
 
8:17 PM
@RobertHarvey that is definitely already the case
 
16 messages moved from Tavern on the Meta
 
8:54 PM
shog pointed here from the Q&A FAQ after deleting the comments there, so I assume this is the right place to talk about this. What's up with community management going to twitter to gloat about the terrible situation going on right now with the community?
 
@eski It's pretty tasteless, not gonna lie
but then again it's some typical PR bullshit. Go on a medium that's not a dumpster fire to brag about how much of a non-dumpster fire the dumpster fire is
 
xD
 
don't forget the mutual pats on the back to reinforce said feeling of not-a-dumpster-fire
 
'k, looks like the smoke from Twitter starting to get blown to the Tavern.
 
6 messages moved from Tavern on the Meta
 
 
2 hours later…
10:29 PM
meh
There's also a whole lot of if you're not with us you're evil going around
 
user206222
Not sure how that relates to learning how to write in a bias-free way.
 
is that going to become part of the rulebook?
 
I don't disagree with being respectful. but it's a 2 way street. This whole situation is broadly accusatory and addressing a problem that noone seems to care to prove exists. The existing process of dealing with these problems exists today, existed yesterday, and it existed 8 years ago
This is doing nothing but providing a proverbial stick to beat people with.
 
Isn't it pointing out that it's a problem, one that could have been addressed yesterday or 8 years ago?
 
I'm pretty sure I've heard transgender people use the phrasing "born a man/woman", and this says not to do it because it's biased
 
10:37 PM
It doesn't help grow the community. it doesn't smooth rough edges. it doesn't invite more people to participate.
 
user206222
I... I really don't understand how this is relevant. Did y'all read the intro to this document? It explicitly says this isn't a tool to be used to bludgeon people with.
 
lol
 
Is that style guide really something approved by the entire transgender community?
 
it says it so it must be true
 
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Offensive answer detected, potentially bad keyword in answer, toxic answer detected (159): How do I change the default audio track of an MKV file? by vidko on superuser.com
 
10:38 PM
@eski It also says to not use it to tell trans people their language is incorrect, and that it's a guide not a set of concrete rules
There's no such thing as something approved by the entire transgender community, just like there is nothing approved by the (insert any word here) community
 
grabs popcorn
 
But I'm being told to read it to know how to spot bias
 
So much for Happy Hour, lol
 
"spot bias" doesn't mean "identify the evildoers for punishment"
 
Can you at least accept that it certainly feels that way?
 
10:40 PM
yesterday, by PM 2Ring
The style guide https://radicalcopyeditor.com/2017/08/31/transgender-style-guide/ is great. But its intended audience is writers who want to know how to write trans inclusively. It's a bit much to expect your average Stack member to adhere to such high standards.
 
Yeah, that I can accept, it can feel difficult
 
the context it was presented in was to do just that - transphobia is blossoming, read this so you can spot it
 
at least to some of us?
yes, and then there's people on here claiming there's a lot of transphobia going around... without linking to any.
am i supposed to just assume you're doing that in good faith?
like, yes, there's a lot of ugly things being said out there right now
there's also a lot of not ugly but also not with you things being said
Which falls in the category?
 
user206222
The idea that I need to prove, somehow, against challenge, that there Is Transphobia going around is absolutely baffling.
 
user206222
All I'm saying is, this document might be helpful if you want to know how to spot bias.
 
10:43 PM
I find it quite easy
 
Here's my take: I can accept it if some people are hurtful to others on purpose. That can't be helped. What I don't like is when people are hurtful by accident, because they don't know better. That style guide gives a few hints for people who are curious how to know better. It won't "reform" anybody. And nobody should be trying to "reform" anybody, because that never works. Change has to start with openness.
 
user206222
That's nice, good for you! I'm... trying to provide a useful resource, for people?
 
You do realize there's two sides to bias, right?
 
Uhm. Morning
 
if not more
 
10:45 PM
morning also
 
@Aza It's a great resource. And people should certainly read it, and think about what it says. But they shouldn't feel bad if they can't follow its suggestions perfectly. These things take time and effort.
 
I don't think people should be as worried about the accidents as they are, but I understand that's a worry
 
@AndrasDeak Indeed. I must say that Monica has acted with dignity through all this. The people on the other side... much less so.
 
user206222
@PM2Ring I'm, not saying they should, don't worry?
 
I've never heard a trans person demand perfection
 
10:46 PM
@DavidA I don't think Monica represents a "side" in what we're talking about
 
user206222
Y'all are reading a lot more into this than I meant it. I just wanted to link a document that might be helpful. Why is that... as much of a problem as it is?
 
user206222
Good lord.
 
"detecting Bias" is often used as a tool to "normalize" one position as the correct position. I'm not saying you're doing that here, but it honestly feels that way.
 
@Aza Yeah. We want allies. We don't want to terrorize people into submission. ;)
 
Making an effort to use affirming language is a big, not-at-all-easy step
 
10:47 PM
@PM2Ring indeed. That tactic can be used by lesser people.
 
51 messages moved from Tavern on the Meta
 

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