Tavern on the Meta

410

1:20 AM

@ArtOfCode Believe? Here's an example of an experienced diamond who did not hear anything about this stuff until a couple hours ago,

> will make you very unpopular

Is that a threat? Because it sounds like a threat.

Stormblessed

2:57 AM

@Mithrandir why?

Why remove the only clear acknowledgment of what happened, which wasn’t some secret event?

And what’s wrong with the other three messages?

Oh @410 how do you seemingly know so much about SE, being a quite new user?

Wait a minute...

On @410’s SO

Shog9

Migrations: a refreshingly pleasant bit of confusion amidst all the unpleasant bits of confusion

Stormblessed

Oh hi @Shog9

@Shog9 oh ok

That’s silly :P

Sonic the Anonymous Hedgehog

4:39 AM

@Stormblessed They've restarted from a new account three times; this is their fourth primary account here

410

5:00 AM

13

Q: Stack Overflow Inc., sinat chinam, and the goat for Azazel

On Friday, half an hour before Shabbat and two days before Rosh Hashana, Stack Overflow Inc. suddenly revoked my moderator status on all sites where I had it. I found this out while handling flags, when I suddenly got notifications for Marshal and Deputy badges (which moderators are ineligible t...

5

And one more mod resignation to go along with it.

5

may the chipps fall where they may

John Dvorak

5:28 AM

Well... when SEinc runs out of actual moderators... maybe they could still maintain the illusion of having moderators for a while by keeping the flag interface.

Sonic the Anonymous Hedgehog

5:49 AM

@410 That's...speculation

@JourneymanGeek FYI your bio still states you're a moderator on MSE

Shree

JourneymanGeek drop his diamond ? :(

Sonic the Anonymous Hedgehog

10 hours ago, by Journeyman Geek

@Stormblessed I needed a break

Stormblessed

@JohnDvorak what do you mean?

Shree

ohhh. Thanks.

Sonic the Anonymous Hedgehog

People need breaks sometimes

John Dvorak

5:58 AM

@Stormblessed Too many resignations recently, and I'm curious to know what the Azazel incident was.

plus the other radical changes coming from the company.

Stormblessed

but wdym by "keeping the flag interface"?

Sonic the Anonymous Hedgehog

Despite the recent post, there's still too little information for me to make an opinion as to what happened and who's right, and I suggest others don't publicly speculate on it during this time.

John Dvorak

I wasn't about to, don't worry.

user168476

Honestly, I don't think any of us need to be doing that, regardless.

Stormblessed

Azazel

Azazel (; Hebrew: עֲזָאֵל, עֻזׇאֵל, עוזיאל; Arabic: عزازيل‎, romanized: ʿAzāzīl) is according to the Book of Enoch a fallen Angel. In the Bible, the Name Azazel appears in association with the scapegoat rite; the name represents a desolate place where a scapegoat bearing the sins of the Jews during Yom Kippur was sent. During the Second Temple period, he appears as a fallen angel responsible for introducing humans to forbidden knowledge. His role as a fallen angel partly remains in Christian and Islamic traditions. == Bible == === Hebrew Bible === In the Bible, the term is used thrice ...

user168476

6:00 AM

During this time or otherwise.

Stormblessed

Something from the Bible

user168476

This feels very much like this is something between SE and some mods.

John Dvorak

No, not that. I mean, I'm curious to know what happened to Monica.

Sonic the Anonymous Hedgehog

Her meta.Mi Yodeya post summarizes it perfectly

Stormblessed

18

Q: Stack Overflow Inc., sinat chinam, and the goat for Azazel

On Friday, half an hour before Shabbat and two days before Rosh Hashana, Stack Overflow Inc. suddenly revoked my moderator status on all sites where I had it. I found this out while handling flags, when I suddenly got notifications for Marshal and Deputy badges (which moderators are ineligible t...

discussion featured moderators

John Dvorak

6:09 AM

I have seen that post (as well as the other two starred posts), that's why I can't wait to see SE's side of the story as we've been promised.

Stormblessed

yeah

Is it Teacher's Lounge or Teachers' Lounge?

John Dvorak

It's the latter for now, but soon to become the former /s

1

Q: I'm stepping down

It's been an honor to serve as your moderator for the past four years. I would like to continue to do so, but after witnessing how Stack Exchange treats their volunteers, I decided that I'm no longer going to volunteer for them.

discussion

Just popped up in the PPCG chatroom.

Stormblessed

dang

Shree

Oppps

Stormblessed

now maybe I'm not going to run for moderator for a while

Alex

6:24 AM

9

Q: What is the purpose of the goat for Azazel, as opposed to conventional offerings?

I've long been confused by the two goats on Yom Kippur. The kohein gadol confesses his and his house's sins on the bull that is offered; in addition, there is a goat that is offered (without additional confession) and one that he confesses the people's sins on and then it's sent into the wildern...

yom-kippur taamei-mitzvot-reasons masechet-yoma temple-service-avoda

Stormblessed

oh hi @Alex

Alex

Hi.

Stormblessed

I should sleep

it is very late

Alex

in The Awkward Silence on The Stack Exchange Network Chat, Sep 22 at 1:51, by Alex

@ankii Sleep is overrated.

Mithrandir

6:36 AM

@Stormblessed Teachers'.

Stormblessed

ok the Mi Yodeya post has it wrong but I wasn't sure if that was accurate to the real one or not, thanks!

Alex

@Mithrandir You better be right, because I just edited the post on the basis of your comment.

Mithrandir

At any rate, I will again ask that everyone please keep this in mind:

10 hours ago, by Mithrandir

There's a lot of complicated and nuanced stuff happening, mostly in private at the moment. Public speculation and discussion is really not going to be helpful at the moment; please respect that.

rene

I expect we can discuss this in public in 6 to 8 ...

John Dvorak

years?

Mithrandir

6:46 AM

It is extremely unfortunate that most of this is private and that most people only get to see some of the effects this is happening. There's nothing I can do about that, though. This is something unprecedented and on a massive scale. It's going to take a while for everything to settle down.

John Dvorak

Would it be possible for you to share the time scale regarding future information being provided to the public?

Mithrandir

Within the next couple weeks, there should be some sort of public announcement. I don't have any details beyond that.

5

John Dvorak

... that's way longer than I expected. Thanks for letting us know.

ArtOfCode

7:32 AM

@410 it's a request that people not poke this with sticks

Journeyman Geek

7:44 AM

@SonictheAnonymousHedgehog I'll fix it shortly

I've had other concerns

Journeyman Geek

8:34 AM

→ 19 messages moved to Chimney

rene

11:57 AM

Rainy Sunday here. Great time to visit the family.

Andras Deak

Aaand ship's sinking

Respect @JourneymanGeek if by any chance your step-down is related

Stormblessed

2:46 PM

what's with the fixed with button?

Andras Deak

hmm?

Stormblessed

M.A.R.

@Stormblessed It changes your font into a fixed font and preserves any formatting (spaces won't be truncated)

Andras Deak

reload the page?

that button appears if you enter multiline messages

Stormblessed

hmm

oh yeah it does

M.A.R.

2:48 PM

Ohai @Andras

Meta Andrew T.

That's... new?

M.A.R.

Also the Blessed

Andras Deak

@MetaAndrewT. not at all

M.A.R.

@MetaAndrewT. No it's fixed font

How can it be new.

Meta Andrew T.

I never noticed that O_O

Andras Deak

2:49 PM

but people not on chat.SO rarely use it

M.A.R.

Oh my God. @Journey?

Meta Andrew T.

I always manually indent by 4 even on chat...

Andras Deak

ctrl+k is simpler

Stormblessed

@M.A.R. resigned as mod, "taking a break"

M.A.R.

Oh, KitKat

Stormblessed

2:50 PM

voluntarily

M.A.R.

I'm away for one day people. ONE day.

Stormblessed

@M.A.R. hmm?

@M.A.R. oh did you see the Mi Yodeya Meta?

Alex

in The Awkward Silence on The Stack Exchange Network Chat, Sep 24 at 0:55, by Alex

@scohe001 @M.A.R. is responsible for everything around here.

Stormblessed

It is the public thing with the most details about what's happened, if you want some context

M.A.R.

Uuuugh God I have enough headaches already.

I'm pretty pissed at myself since I literally threw something valuable away today.

Andras Deak

2:52 PM

didn't they tell you not to do that?

Meta Andrew T.

How did you throw that!?

M.A.R.

Not to catch headaches?

rene

@M.A.R. what was it? A diaper?

M.A.R.

Don't worry, you can't possibly have a bigger figurative club to beat me up with right now.

rene

Looks at caddy, nods for a wooden driver 1

Meta Andrew T.

2:54 PM

I don't think using baseball pitching machine, right...

M.A.R.

@rene It was a sprinkler for watering plants.

Andras Deak

you should have used version control

rene

My family!

Meta Andrew T.

I wished my life was using version control

rene

Not all version control systems allow you to rewrite history

Andras Deak

2:58 PM

It wasn't public history until M.A.R. told us. They could've rebased master onto the version where they still had the sprinkler.

Meta Andrew T.

but merge conflict is also a headache...

Alex

Bad Dobby

►

M.A.R.

@AndrasDeak It's still not public Agent Smith squint

You can see me squinting behind my sunglasses.

Andras Deak

go for Agent K

Stormblessed

@AndrasDeak that’s why you always need to push every day

One day your computer breaks, and boom! You don’t have your sprinkler

M.A.R.

3:04 PM

@AndrasDeak Not that old yet.

Or grumpy. OK, maybe the Mi Yodeya post does make me that grumpy.

That was kinda dystopian. Oh well, rehashing won't help nothing.

Journeyman Geek

@M.A.R. thank you

M.A.R.

It's unfortunate that a reformed me after about three years with more things to say keeps being put off from actually contributing anything. That Kill Meta post was my only meaningful contribution in a long, long time.

Journeyman Geek

And folks - if what I say has any meaning, I strongly recommend seeing what mith said earlier

M.A.R.

Not that I ever contributed much, but I'm kinda ashamed of my posts.

Journeyman Geek

And giving folks involved a little time to sort things out

M.A.R.

3:07 PM

Kinda very immature-ish . . . Uneducatedish.

Journeyman Geek

@M.A.R. everyone starts somewhere

M.A.R.

Anyway, what was I saying.

I think I'll keep to chat.

@JourneymanGeek Yeah yeah

Still immature though. Has no bearing on the stance.

It's obvious that I have grown up now. I have hair on new places.

Alex

@JourneymanGeek Then I guess someone starts everywhere?

Journeyman Geek

@Alex yup

M.A.R.

@Alex Does anyone start anywhere though

What is life

Journeyman Geek

3:10 PM

Where you go from there is important

Alex

@M.A.R. Then everyone would have to start everywhere, which could get complicated...

Journeyman Geek

So.

In addition to everything else

I got transferred to another site

M.A.R.

That sounds bureaucratic.

Journeyman Geek

And I entirely admit at the moment to feeling worn out

Meta Andrew T.

Night shift and all...

M.A.R.

3:12 PM

Look on the bright side. I can finally see images now, and it doesn't seem to be temporary.

Journeyman Geek

Sometimes you gotta have the courage to just step back and look at what you are doing and what the results are

M.A.R.

Now, I'm not gonna jinx it, but I think they decided avatars are too boring to block.

I usually have to step ahead to look at what I'm doing.

And it's sideways for some people.

So yeah, courage.

Journeyman Geek

It can be

M.A.R.

I have a question.

Journeyman Geek

I'm not sure it is yet

M.A.R.

3:13 PM

What if you were planting a mine

Journeyman Geek

Well no

Meta Andrew T.

@M.A.R. whaaattt???

Journeyman Geek

I'd rather avoid explosions

That whole incident with the grenade and all that

M.A.R.

@MetaAndrewT. I know, right. Sometimes colors can be bright, objectively.

@JourneymanGeek Boo no courage

Journeyman Geek

@M.A.R. well. It went boom. A little too close

I wasn't too scared. I think the supervising officer was ... Petrified

M.A.R.

3:17 PM

@JourneymanGeek What if their pants had a hole

You never know that.

Journeyman Geek

@M.A.R. all pants have holes

M.A.R.

Well, a hole where it's not supposed to be.

I have a theory that a grenade blew up in the middle of the galaxy.

That, or it's a slow flush.

Mark my words, that's the next MCU plot.

Galactus flushing the galaxy down the black hole.

Journeyman Geek

Damn it. Who leaked?

M.A.R.

The supervising officer

Stormblessed

@M.A.R. which one?

M.A.R.

3:22 PM

What do you mean which one

Journeyman Geek

Ah

Actually I only found out later

M.A.R.

About the leak?

Journeyman Geek

~~apparently you can't play fetch with live grenades~~ I'm an exceptionally bad pitcher

Meta Andrew T.

It's leaking since the beginning

M.A.R.

Well congratulations. Singapore military just doomed the galaxy.

Journeyman Geek

3:25 PM

About the SO being scared 😆

M.A.R.

I never notice those details either

If I took a picture of Einstein someone else would have to remind me he's blowing raspberries.

What's it called, good intentions and what.

Like for example, I like all but one of my university professors. But others hate all but one of the university professors.

Well, not hate, but notice them blow raspberries.

Meta Andrew T.

with a pie

M.A.R.

We have this new biochem professor and OMG, he is an amazing person.

Probably the first Shog too, BTW.

He's like if Gandhi was a biochemist.

Meta Andrew T.

@M.A.R. with nuclear too...

M.A.R.

Well, I mean, we get kinda angry when the Indian fellows keep using "sir"

There's a level of nice where you can be taken advantage of.

And there's a level of nice where you're so awesome and prophetic that almost no one in the world can get themselves to do so.

Stormblessed

3:38 PM

@M.A.R. the “kill meta” post?

M.A.R.

45

Q: Common reasons why your meta post may be negatively received

This post functions as a complement to How can I participate in meta and not die trying? As you may already be aware, meta is one such grim place where disagreements happen. It just seems so customary to get at least one post that gets downvoted heavily every day, ranging from frustrated rants v...

discussion meta faq-proposed

And I'm gonna keep saying it, the original title was awesome

How is that not flagged yet, that's as blunt and blatant as spam gets.

Alex

@M.A.R. The sacrifices we make...

M.A.R.

Alright, after so much resistance, before I give in to the dark ~~side~~ mood, I probably need to spend some time doing something fun.

Cheerio.

Andras Deak

I suggest walking on legos

M.A.R.

Close, gonna be studying organic chemistry and learning Deutsch

410

4:31 PM

Anyway, enough of sad things.

Let's party like it's 1984.

Princess Olivia

yeah, someone else just told me the same thing

Alex

The removed comment makes it look like the sad things are organic chemistry and learning Deutsch.

410

Which is correct. Organic chemistry is the root cause of all that happened.

All of these C, H, and O atoms, with N sprinkled in places... they display such complex behavior.

Princess Olivia

... twice, apparently

I'm a bit slow today :]

410

!!/coffee

SmokeDetector

4:34 PM

@410 brews a cup of Mocha for @410

410

> do stupid things faster with more energy

I don't drink Mocha, though.

Meta Andrew T.

!!/coffee

SmokeDetector

@MetaAndrewT. brews a cup of Espresso for @MetaAndrewT.

Meta Andrew T.

a great way to start my sleep...

410

@SmokeDetector So unfair that M.A.T. gets espresso and I'm stuck with Mocha.

I assume that M.A.T. is an acceptable acronym and cannot possibly be confused with M.A.R.

TBFH, I mostly drink brewed coffee or instant. My espresso days are long gone.

Sonic the Anonymous Hedgehog

4:52 PM

I can't help but point out analogies to YouTube: basically, some advertisers complained that their ads were showing next to "controversial" videos, so they developed their "ad-friendly" algorithm that demonetizes any video with even remote mentions to controversial topics, and the process for appeal is extremely bureaucratic.

410

breaking news

0

Q: Moderator Resignation Notice

I'm resigning as a moderator from all Stack Exchange sites, effective today. I didn't make this decision lightly, frivolously or suddenly. A persistent pattern of corporate missteps, and a monumentally deplorable moderator dismissal, has compelled me to re-evaluate my relationship with Stack Ex...

discussion featured

4

I suppose there will be a matching post on MetaSO. (Robert is also an SO mod)

Stormblessed

How many so far?

Counted 6?

Andras Deak

5:08 PM

whoooooooooah

@410 Question ID 9000. Talk about going out with a bang.

Anne Daunted

5:30 PM

Twisted Sister - We're Not Gonna Take It (Official Video)

►

410

I was thinking more along the lines of The Network.

Princess Olivia

@Stormblessed If you count individual, per-site loss and not by people, a lot more.

Andras Deak

there's only point in counting people

@Stormblessed "6 and counting", rather

Princess Olivia

5:45 PM

meh

No diamond changes have been registered for a few hours

Andras Deak

The loss and impact is not due to losing moderator-privileged users on various sites. The loss and impact is from pushing away the persons who wielded those diamonds.

3

Alex

@AndrasDeak If someone resigns from multiple sites, that’s multiple vacancies that presumably need to be filled.

Andras Deak

see my previous message ;)

Princess Olivia

@Alex Speaking for myself, I wouldn't run again if there was an election. There's lots of things I would rather spend my time on, because this ain't one of them. The thing with this whole mess is that it can, worst case scenario, aside pushing away mods, push away potential future mods. Lots of sites desperately need mod elections now, but how many want to run after this?

Meta Andrew T.

I'm no one on SE, but I'll just say that I will take a break from Tavern and most of Meta sites because it's unhealthy for my mental health. I'm still contactable on main sites.

Alex

6:13 PM

@PrincessOlivia I imagine some people would want to run just so they could have access to more details next time something like this happens.

Princess Olivia

Or realize it's a lot less painful to just leave before it happens. that we're discussing a next time with "when" is a bad sign on its own

Andras Deak

@PrincessOlivia honestly, most non-mod people won't be affected by this at all, they won't even know and most of those who do won't care that much

Princess Olivia

So?

How would you feel if you know that the person you elect gets put through all kinds of crap?

A bit like a lot of other problems, once it's exposed, the people who are affected stop holding back. There's no reason to hide it. If the long term effect is significantly fewer mods, that causes problems for everyone

Speaking of which, there's currently 3 mods who have either left or aren't actively moderating on SO. At least 3. Judging by flag response time, the queue is already big. Losing another mod today is going to make it worse

SO isn't even the biggest problem - some sites might end up without moderators at all.

Sonic the Anonymous Hedgehog

Not including Monica, Workplace has had half its moderators resign

Princess Olivia

^

Andras Deak

6:25 PM

@PrincessOlivia my point is it's not about me. Or you.

most people using SO/SE are not like you or me

410

Yeah. People will still be getting their programming work done, or puzzling over chess problems, or over math homework, etc.

Princess Olivia

Losing mods means increased flag queue. Increased flag queue means bigger delays.

Bigger delays means people can get access to comments i.e. through voting rings easier

410

The majority don't notice anything about mods, metas, flags, etc.

Princess Olivia

And with a reduced mod force, managing those gets hard if they go on a rude commenting spree, which affects most users

No matter how you put it, this does in some or another way affect everyone.

Andras Deak

Affect, yes. Affect with their knowledge, no.

Princess Olivia

6:28 PM

SOBotics and Charcoal can only do so much.

M.A.R.

🔥 🔥 🔥

@410 Nothing can be confused with me.

I'm too unique.

In a good way.

Maybe.

Let me think about that.

OK, it's kinda in a bad way.

@MetaAndrewT. Aw :(

Who's gonna make pie jokes now.

@PrincessOlivia Point is, they've done such a good job that it's hard to undermine that work.

user271002

in The Periodic Table on The Stack Exchange Network Chat, Apr 13 '16 at 9:59, by Loong

@IͶΔ Who are you?

M.A.R.

Something something good moderation is done unnoticed and blah blah.

@Loong y u mean

Andras Deak

@M.A.R. and in moderation

M.A.R.

@AndrasDeak . . . Mediterranean pasta salad.

That's an elegant response considering I didn't get what you said.

Andras Deak

6:38 PM

edited for clarity

M.A.R.

Oh, that's a cool quote.

Imma steal it.

Stormblessed

New 65days album is cool

M.A.R.

CC by SA 6.0.

@Stormblessed I could conquer the world in that many days.

As for me, I'd probably go watch some movies and post on M&TV.

Isolated warrior nomad refugee style.

But chat is fun. I can talk to things. And people.

Alex

Mostly things.

Princess Olivia

@M.A.R. CC By AATEC:tm:(All Attribution To Evil Corporation, Inc) 3.1415:registered:

410

6:51 PM

In practical terms, fewer moderators on fewer sites may indeed be a solution.

E.g., as much as I like reading, I wouldn't notice it if Literature site wasn't there. There are plenty of sources out there for anyone interested.

Andras Deak

that's a weirdly myopic view to hold

I mean, there are ~200 SE sites, do you think most of those are for you?

410

The point is, they aren't an important source of knowledge in whatever subject they attempt to cover.

Because they barely have any activity at all.

Andras Deak

I wouldn't dare try to gauge the importance of a site that I'm not a regular of. No matter how much I like to read.

but that's just me :)

410

The view counts are out there in SEDE.

john

7:53 PM

I love it when I start writing my question and the window suggests the correct duplicate the first one in the box.

rene

yeah, better then after you posted you notice the first related question in the right sidebar is a full duplicate ...

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