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Rob

12:18 AM

Aye it's on the moors

user302202

You may point out that this very retreat into ironic detachment while still clearly participating in the thing in question is the very definition of contemporary hipsterdom. But on the other hand, wait, you're in an empty room. Who are you talking to?

Get Answer Wizard

2:36 AM

Unmorning

ocæon

2:50 AM

hi hi peeps and bleeps

ocæon

3:03 AM

lol crickets tag 404ed

Shog9

Mar 31 '12 at 15:14, by Crickets

chirps

ocæon

3:21 AM

oh so the cricket button lag was nearly offset by timetravel? shiny!

Tyler Carter

5:45 AM

... I think I started this room? Its been a really long time...

4

Sonic the Wizard Werehog

@TylerCarter It's definitely more Dutch than before

Tyler Carter

@SonictheWizardWerehog The Dutch are a good people.

@Shog9 I think I remember you from like ... 7 years ago or something. Crazy how time flies.

Mithrandir

6:42 AM

→ 21 messages moved to Chimney

@TylerCarter waves

Tinkeringbell

Good morning! :)

@TylerCarter That's the only correct answer to that remark :P

Tinkeringbell

7:08 AM

@Glorfindel Do you still have that userscript thingy for unprotecting posts? meta.stackexchange.com/q/326036/369802 is being autoprotected and could use some autounprotecting :)

Glorfindel

@Tinkeringbell sure, hold on ...

Tinkeringbell

Thank you :)

Sonic the Wizard Werehog

@Tinkeringbell Shouldn't be an issue now that all the users who have posted non-deleted answers to that question have gone past 10 rep. It's stopped for now; it will only happen again if a fresh set of answers from <10 rep users get posted.

At the moment, it doesn't meet the system criteria for auto-protection, as it doesn't have five or more answers posted from new users within the last 24 hours. (The checks are performed based on current rep, and are run whenever any new answer gets posted.)

Glorfindel

Sonic the Wizard Werehog

@AskQuestionWizard Looks like balpha got to retain his staff and network-wide moderator rights permanently

@Glorfindel That script won't work since the question isn't at least 24 hours old. It must be executed under a mod account. (cc @Tinkeringbell)

Glorfindel

7:38 AM

@SonictheWizardWerehog oh, really? Then they need to change that ...

Journeyman Geek

@SonictheWizardWerehog I'm doubtful of the former. I wouldn't mind the latter.

Sonic the Wizard Werehog

@JourneymanGeek The staff bit prevents mods from showing up in the list of moderators on /users, and normalhuman.github.io/employee says that they still have the staff bit.

Journeyman Geek

@SonictheWizardWerehog shrug that dosen't mean its permanent. Just that is isn't done yet. No rush, right?

Besides, that should be between him and SE anyway.

Not really any of our business

Tinkeringbell

@SonictheWizardWerehog I can't run it from here, I'm at work. I'll keep an eye on it manually, and then @Glorfindel can take over tonight. :)

Sonic the Wizard Werehog

@JourneymanGeek Maybe you could run Glorfindel's user script under your account? (It was requested by Tinkeringbell, not me.)

Journeyman Geek

7:46 AM

@SonictheWizardWerehog errr.... not really

I switch computers a lot so it'll get messy

Sonic the Wizard Werehog

Normally it runs under Glorfindel's account, but 15k+ users can only unprotect once the question is 24 hours old, so for the time being it has to be run under a mod account.

@JourneymanGeek He actually runs it on a server, not his main computer IIRC

Journeyman Geek

errrr

I don't think that's an option

Sonic the Wizard Werehog

Meh, it doesn't really matter now. As I first said, it's not necessary now unless there are at least five answers from currently new users (of which there are currently zero).

Journeyman Geek

also, looking at the answers, we'll need to keep an eye on it anyway

Tinkeringbell

@JourneymanGeek Is that the only one? Or has there been any more since yesterday? (I remember I was keeping eyes on about 10, but most seem calmed down now)

Journeyman Geek

7:59 AM

@Tinkeringbell amongst other things!

Tinkeringbell

9:13 AM

This is interesting... according to a Dutch news article people a.) are more and more of the opinion that companies have more responsibilities with regards to climate and society, while b.) we start distrusting said companies more and more...

I feel this isn't going to end well :/

Magisch

I mean, barring exceptions, you can assume a company to care about one thing only which is profit

they're not moral, and larger companies are nearly exclusively led by if not sociopaths then people who act like sociopaths

Tinkeringbell

I kinda feel that it's problematic that people find that companies have a societal responsibility (I don't know if this translates well to English, but it's like you're expecting a company to fix problems that don't have anything to do with their business :/).

I agree that they may need to be a bit more aware of environmental stuff, but I don't expect them to fix the neighborhood

Magisch

I think it's fine that companies are Amoral money machines. They just need to be treated as such by regulators

Tinkeringbell

@Magisch That's one other thing the article mentioned, that governments are increasingly less involved in stuff. Like, a few decades ago old people would go to retirement homes, then they started focusing on having a nurse come to your home, and now the first question is 'is this something we can offload on family/friends/neighbours'?

The retirement homes were largely government funded, so is the home-care.

And I do understand that with an increasing number of elderly people things become too expensive, and that the government starts trying to see where they can cut costs...

Magisch

The generational contract is kinda disintegrating

Tinkeringbell

9:24 AM

But at the same time this thing is also somehow related to people looking more and more towards companies... (I don't exactly understand how, that's an interesting one to dive into tonight at home)

Magisch

we have a lot of old people who will be living in absolute poverty because not enough young people exist to care for them properly

Tinkeringbell

Probably. I'm already seeing it happen now...

Magisch

It's showing in that we have a massive deficit in long term care facility workers but the pay is still hot garbage, hence no one wants to fill these positions

A profession that you need dedicated learning for, that is very demanding and stressful, and pays literally minimum wage

Tinkeringbell

@Magisch Yeah... It's sad. If I see how much work my mom does that she just isn't even paid for :/

(She works as a home-care nurse)

Magisch

One of my friends works as a normal nurse in a hospital, making a good 600 after taxes less then I do, and the work is infinitely more responsible and stressful, and he had to pass a state sanctioned exam to even start working as a nurse

between paid out overtime and night shift bonuses, he some months breaks even with me, but this is with rotating shifts, weekend holiday and night work. A nighmare compared to a cushy office job

Tinkeringbell

9:43 AM

@Magisch Yeah, I'm kinda glad I never 'became a nurse just like mommy'

Funny story actually ;)

I always wanted to be a nurse, until when I was like 12? and grandma was in hospital. She had cancer removed from her intestines, and was on a ward with all sorts of people with intestinal problems.

One of those people had been given a large dose of laxatives because she had to be empty for a test.

They didn't even try making it to the toilet :/

After smelling that, I decided archaeology might be a better choice :P

Magisch

the ward my friend works on specializes in people with complications from mismanaged type 2 diabetes

Tinkeringbell

Ugh, that gets smelly pretty soon too :P

Journeyman Geek

@Magisch Not really convinced there was one to start with

Get Answer Wizard

10:33 AM

anyway... when will the '90s end?

John Dvorak

I have a script to kill them as I find them

Get Answer Wizard

sorry, shouldn't post above message...

(I hope mods don't check it)

Tinkeringbell

@GetAnswerWizard Too late. I had read it before you deleted it :P

I still stand by that assessment though: it's the worst April Fools' for everyone. People had to wake up in the middle of the night to fix bugs, other people were bothered by the bug... Even the people that do like this April Fools' have some of their fun stolen by having to hear how it's absolutely not fun :P

Get Answer Wizard

How the Grinch stole April Fools

Tinkeringbell

A little bit, yeah :P

Journeyman Geek

11:14 AM

@GetAnswerWizard I guess plural. And they let grumpiness over $other_stuff leak over IMO

Tinkeringbell

@JourneymanGeek I can understand that, to some extent, though.

Journeyman Geek

@Tinkeringbell I have lots of views on what makes a community thrive... some of which are at odds with them, and some with SO corp ;p

and folks feeling my way or the highway as opposed to, well actually trying to go "Ok, this has worked so far, but not perfectly, how do we talk to people and get them to make it better?"

for example - I think in certain ways, SE is more than devs, and folks who come in elsewhere might end up finding other sites eventually friendlier.

And that getting new users comfortable with the site, and engaged is essential for the long term health of the community.

Tinkeringbell

Oh sure... but I can also understand the spilling over of stuff into this April Fools' joke.

Because I know that it's hard to not do so ;)

Journeyman Geek

Its spilling over all the time though

I mean, I've been frustrated for years with some of the things SE has done.

Tinkeringbell

That's true... and it's annoying me just as much ;)

Journeyman Geek

11:28 AM

(more so.. because it turns out I was actually right about some of it ><)

Magisch

It will be spilling over for the foreseeable future too

I'm sure well see indignance and anger over 2018 things still in 2021

Tinkeringbell

@Magisch Probably. Perhaps even more, if that news article we discussed this morning was right people are going to expect the company to be some kind of moral compass.

Journeyman Geek

@Magisch thing is, at some point, you might forget what you were really angry about

@Tinkeringbell one thing about CSR is - its tinted by the lens of the people who run and use it.

at the same time, some folks are going to never be happy no matter what you do

Magisch

I very much remember what I'm angry about, but my opinion on it has been duly noted so I don't see the need to keep bringing it up on unrelated accounts.

αλεχολυτ

Is anyone here who can start build the new site revision? Needs to update fool's day translation.

Journeyman Geek

11:34 AM

0_0

Tinkeringbell

@JourneymanGeek True. But I see CSR failing more and more... This company I'm working for has some kind of CSR contest where people can come up with ideas to improve their society, and this year a big minority of those projects were meant for everyone.

Journeyman Geek

@αλεχολυτ vaguely doubtful

Get Answer Wizard

@αλεχολυτ I sympathized with this...

Journeyman Geek

@Tinkeringbell so, that's the thing. CSR as a thing to check off is... silly

Magisch

@Tinkeringbell I mean, with stack, they had that expectation for years

Journeyman Geek

11:35 AM

If you have management who actually feel we need to do good, rather than keep the PR folks happy....

Tinkeringbell

@JourneymanGeek Even then good is primarily opinion based.

Magisch

Stack has coasted off of being a "good" company with solid morals for a while to attract people to donate labour and time

αλεχολυτ

@JourneymanGeek US devs are still lying in bed?

Journeyman Geek

@Magisch I think they still have in a sense.

Just that they're kinda focused on devs and diversity in developers and...

Tinkeringbell

@Magisch I think what I meant to say was: There will be more and more people pulling towards 'take a stance on < political viewpoint/moral issue >.

Magisch

11:38 AM

If this was the EA of Q/A platforms people would leave no matter what gamifications exist

@Tinkeringbell ah yeah that's also true

companies are expected to be political and align themselves.

Tinkeringbell

Which is not what you really want a company to do in most cases anyways... I wasn't around for the rainbow stuff on SO but I have heard the rumours about it and how people can still refer to it as 'makes me mad'.

Journeyman Geek

@Magisch in a sense though, we have these arguements cause we care about this place. But we have different ideas over what's "best"

Get Answer Wizard

@Magisch to be honest, it's not that different. Many people have "boycotted" SO, the same as EA, Activision, Konami, etc.

Magisch

The extreme outgrowths of this trend happen when certain companies are expected to police the political alignments of their employees

Journeyman Geek

at the same time, I'm not going to let my annoyance over say, benign neglect of the rest of the network spill over. And I've basically been as vocal as I can about how the community team's kinda spread thin. (also been applying there as openings happen but... ugh, that's apparently not happening yet)

People tend to listen to you when you stay on point

AFD joke is ugly? Sure

Tinkeringbell

11:44 AM

@Magisch Not only employees, but think of e.g. content on IPS...

Journeyman Geek

@Magisch I hope not. But ya, that's kinda an offshoot of everything being political

Also, people getting James Gunned.

Magisch

Well yeah. That's the idea of deplatforming. Making it financially, socially and societally ruinous to hold "wrong opinions"

Side effect of this is platforms that don't aggressively enough participate get thrown in the same bucket and equally put under pressure with boycotts, hitpieces, calls to stop investing in them or doing business with them, etc..

Journeyman Geek

@Magisch but there's no real way to win those

unless you're also an extremist

I mean, with some of those conversations on twitter - there's no way to win.

Magisch

That's the point. With us or against us. You're either of our opinion, or you're with the other, and then you must be destroyed

It's been happening a lot

Get Answer Wizard

But... you can't please anyone?

Magisch

11:47 AM

Not that everyone participating are bad people. They believe the cause is worth destroying anyone that doesn't support it

Journeyman Geek

I mean on the rare occation, I've literally gone "damn, we're going to lose $thingwecareabout"

@GetAnswerWizard you don't need to.

Get Answer Wizard

or at least, get Bitcoin for participating on Korean.SE

Magisch

This is where we are in public policy. Social media & content filtering make it so you simply don't see stuff that doesn't align your viewpoint. Tends to make people more extreme then they otherwise would be

Tinkeringbell

@Magisch Not just that, it also makes it easier to gather like-minded people. If you complain about a mod by using contact-us and no-one says 'you're right', it's easy to drop stuff out of context on a social media platform and find a few likeminded people to tell you how horrible you've been treated.

Those people may have no understanding of moderation on SE, they may have no further context than what the person posting the stuff discloses... they just see something they personally disagree with

Magisch

It's a weird social dynamic. Part of the new "coolness" that used to be what middle schoolers distinguished themselves by is now a form of imperative morality, e.g. causes people care about are being used to determine in vs out groups in social settings. It's like the high school bully except they now have an additional army of bullies and real world consequences to wield rather then making fun of you

Journeyman Geek

11:57 AM

@Tinkeringbell and SE has a problem of working well cause of how we do things, but folks are like "We want to be part of SE, but we don't like downvotes or any form of quality control or..."

Tinkeringbell

@JourneymanGeek Oh, it can go a lot further than that... I've had people become upset because they were referred to using a generic he. Instead of just talking it out or editing, go gather a crowd of sympathetic onlookers on meta or social media and completely trash the middle aged guy that has never been taught to use other pronouns.

Journeyman Geek

@Tinkeringbell that's just... being a mob ><

Tinkeringbell

It is.

Journeyman Geek

but that's the sort of situation that its really hard to deal with or engage

Tinkeringbell

It is.

Journeyman Geek

12:05 PM

(I've erm.. done that a few times. Luckily folks were nice enough to fix it)

Tinkeringbell

But it raises interesting questions. Can we expect people to point out their correct pronouns over and over? Should a moderator accept an r/a flag if there's no evidence users have already tried to solve this themselves? Should SE have some sort of pronoun policy? Do pronouns on the internet even matter? ... and that's where people will start pulling on a company for moral guidance, preferably with their angry mob in tow...

Journeyman Geek

@Tinkeringbell 1) they will/do 2) no - best effort works 3) I think we have a meta question on that 4) on the internet no one knows you're a dog....

Tinkeringbell

@JourneymanGeek They were rhetorical questions :P

Journeyman Geek

;p

Tinkeringbell

I can understand that if you have to correct 10 different people on your pronouns each day because you're not a generic he and are really bothered by people using it, your answer to the first one is going to be 'no'.

I can understand people flagging r/a if the answer to the first one is 'no', without trying to point out what are the correct pronouns in a comment or edit.

And in that case, people might start pulling on SE to implement some sort of policy to make their life easier.

And all of this is caused because those people do believe pronouns on the internet matter, at least a bit more than other people do.

Journeyman Geek

12:09 PM

@Tinkeringbell on both sides of the debate though

Tinkeringbell

@JourneymanGeek True.

Journeyman Geek

I try to use the correct pronouns cause its common respect.

Tinkeringbell

There's people on the other side that will answer those questions differently and will try to gather the angry mob of 'pronouns don't matter at all'.

Journeyman Geek

But yanno. That's coloured by my experiences and those of people I know

Tinkeringbell

@JourneymanGeek I try to just use singular they for everyone. That way I can't mess up by misremembering either ;)

Journeyman Geek

12:18 PM

Oh that's safe

but I know a few people for whom using the correct pronoun means a lot

Get Answer Wizard

12:48 PM

-3

Q: Aren't our minds as programmable as the machines we program everyday?

My Dear Comrades who fix the greatest of the bugs, My decade and a half stint with technology brought me to being the Lead engineer in ThoughtWorks who architected navigation system for the international airport, innovated the hybrid cloud driver and open sourced it half a decade ago to being a...

science

I'm confused

Apparently my programmed mind failed to parse the post

Journeyman Geek

It just syntax errored?

Get Answer Wizard

Error: question mark ("?") not found on the question body.

Tinkeringbell

I think I get it...

It's spam

Get Answer Wizard

I guess so...

Journeyman Geek

I actually think its serious psudoscience

Tinkeringbell

12:56 PM

Spam for serious pseudoscience? I really think that link looks spammy

Though you could argue they're disclosing its theirs so it's okay... but that way you can spam a lot of stuff on SE :P

Get Answer Wizard

> Spam for serious pseudoscience

Rob

It's an announcement on Area 51's Meta about a site proposal that he has made.

Get Answer Wizard

I want to use this quote sometimes in the future...

Tinkeringbell

@GetAnswerWizard Hey, I am the parrot here...

Tinkeringbell

1:49 PM

@Glorfindel Seems to work just fine already... You have 5/6 unprotects there already and the post is only 21 hours old ;)

Glorfindel

thx for confirming

Tinkeringbell

You're welcome, thank you for putting that script up again :)

Glorfindel

... that means only the UI is disabled

not the function itself.

I'll update my feature request.

Tinkeringbell

You need a screenshot of the timeline?

Glorfindel

no, thanks

Tinkeringbell

1:56 PM

Okay :)

You know where to find that actually...

Glorfindel

yep

Journeyman Geek

3:02 PM

→ 23 messages moved to Chimney

M.A.R. The Chemical Wizard

3:24 PM

simple_human

868 7 12

discussion fun april-fools support unicoins character-escaping code-formatting

What's the different between simple and normal?

Alex

@M.A.R.TheChemicalWizard The answer to your question is simple, but not normal.

M.A.R. The Chemical Wizard

@Alex I neither have a simple nor normal comeback to that

Alex

@M.A.R.TheChemicalWizard That's a first.

M.A.R. The Chemical Wizard

You should always try new things in life

Alex

So I should post a question on StackOverflow?

Shog9

3:41 PM

Aug 3 '10 at 23:46, by Chacha102

Hi @shog

Magisch

3:52 PM

There's actually a type of candy here called Shogetten

its chocolate in single squares

Get Answer Wizard

@M.A.R.TheChemicalWizard april-fools as one of the top tags. It's a soc...ial engineering...

Feeds

&#129340&#129340&#129340&#129340&#129340&#129340&#129340&#129340

Alex

4:08 PM

@Feeds Possible duplicate of NICKNAMES FOR INDUSTRIES AND ORGANIZATIONS.

user302202

Because today's comic is dynamic.

user302202

Randall did not bother to create a static fallback.

Tinkeringbell

5:06 PM

@Magisch They sell that over here too. It's good chocolate, I can't count how many of those I ate back in high school :P

Great idea to have it in single squares, makes sneaking a piece out of your backpack a lot easier

ocæon

5:32 PM

i heard choccah

ocæon

5:44 PM

@Magisch how dark is the 'dark' squares?

rene

6:09 PM

does this needs a lock: meta.stackexchange.com/q/17038/158100

Tinkeringbell

Help me out a little more, why do you think it might?

rene

due to the needless rollbacks on the question

ArtOfCode

only one

recently

rene

there is always one, recently ... ;)

I'm talking about the pattern

Tinkeringbell

@rene There's a sentence added and it was rolled back, and Art just added it again...

rene

6:15 PM

Okay, let's see how long it sticks

Tinkeringbell

Hmm. I'm going to drop this in the mod room too: There was also a lot of rolling back and stuff over another sentence. And we can get rid of the entire warning by just locking it :P

rene

Okay

ArtOfCode

@Tinkeringbell I figured it was a rollback by a pretty new user - probably just another user who just got the privilege testing it out without seeing that note

Tinkeringbell

Hopefully... but it will be annoying to have to keep cleaning that up. :P

Kevin B

6:53 PM

lmao

user302202

Tweeted by UnicornOfTheDay on April 1, 2019 at 4:00 PM

user302202

Is this an April Fools joke too?

Kevin B

that's... not a unicorn

user302202

My point exactly...

ocæon

now lets not be splitting horns over a gag

what is the meta-tag "not" for?

or am i misunderstanding how this tag formed? meta.stackexchange.com/a/326088/505013

Kevin B

7:12 PM

meta.stackexchange.com/questions/tagged/sadfasdf

(a questions tagged page existing is not an indicator that a given tag exists)

ocæon

sadfasdf

so what is the definition of a tag existing if a tag autoformats to a meta-tag page for one that doesn't?

user302202

A tag exist if it appears on the list of tags. meta.stackexchange.com/tags

user302202

(Some of those exist only as synonyms)

ocæon

7:29 PM

thanks. i won't be creating a question for it then, just interpret [tag:*] linking to undefined meta-tag pages as a bug

user302202

Not a bug. It's a syntactic shortcut for creating a hyperlink with a certain style.

user302202

The ability to create hyperlinks is not contingent on the existence of the resource.

Tyler Carter

7:59 PM

@AskQuestionWizard is that a duocorn?

Mithrandir

Bicorn, I think

Eleeza

It's a Twonicorn

Rob

8:26 PM

Check out the Candidates for Data Science Election - hint: two are Moderators.

Catija

@Rob It's a graduation election. We've always required mods to run in an election when the site graduates. :)

EKons

yeah, that

Catija

@TylerCarter I think it's just a goat.

EKons

although... I can't actually find any graduation-related note over there...

Catija

Because they actually graduated a long time ago and their first election failed.

EKons

8:29 PM

ninja'd you :P

Catija

Huh?

I'm explaining why there's no graduation note.

EKons

yeah I found the post just before you said that

Catija

28

Q: Congratulations! Data Science is graduating!

You've been cleared for graduation by the Stack Exchange Community Team! Data Science met our threshold for graduation-worthy sites and after a review, the Community Team determined that you're good to go. Reaching 'mature community' status is a big milestone, and you should be very proud. What ...

discussion graduation

ocæon

@Catija how can an election fail? ~ /me looks around the planet ... oh.

Catija

Graduated site elections need to have n+1 candidates... where n= available seats. So, if an election has three seats but only gets 3 or fewer candidates, it's considered a failed election ... we generally extend the nomination phase a week in that case... after that, if there's still not enough candidates, we cancel it and try again at another time... it's not super common, so we don't have a specific policy for it.

Rob

8:41 PM

@Catija - My point was that the "Candidate Score" seemed low on some of them, compared to 40/40 I've seen elsewhere. It doesn't reflect their true abilities, as some seem very qualified. Rather than be a smite upon them I wanted my comment to question the manner in which Candidate Scores are calculated.

Catija

Mods can't get some of the points and rep is generally a shortfall on some sites. If you're used to big site elections, yeah, having low numbers is rare but it's not unheard of. One of the mods on Apple was elected with very little rep but he's an excellent mod due to activity elsewhere on the network. There's only one 10k+ rep user on DS, though... which accounts for most of the low score.

EKons

generally, the more candidates, the fairer the election is imo

Catija

Many sites have great numbers but not a lot of voting, which depresses the rep levels of the users. When half the mod score is based on rep, it's easy to see that... but having low rep isn't bad. I certainly have my own issues with the candidate score... I don't think it's perfect by any means... but it's much better than just rep alone.

Rob

Perhaps total Flags (pass/fail) and Flair should be considered, along with the date of joining their first SE/SO site. I've seen Moderators with less than 1K and wondered, but when you check they are Moderators on a few other sites and have over 100K Flair.

EKons

@Catija oh, I'm pretty sure that the issue with the mod score is the attempt to represent something subjective such as the moderator's traits with something objective such as a number ;) :P

can't be made perfect, and also you have to account for e.g. beta sites

but yeah I agree that rep shouldn't be accounted as much as it currently is

Kevin B

8:51 PM

or if maybe it wasn't... a strict 40 points

if there was a possible 60 points, and it just capped at 40, where more in one area can overcome a shortcoming in another

Rob

I'd suggest that total number of times suspended be a subtracting factor but I understand that is something we forget unless it's scheduled to last for decades (centuries). Perhaps weeks absences could be a subtracting factor, so people don't visit once and come back with a 'one hit wonder'.

+2 Kevin

Catija

@Rob Flagging is a useful indicator of someone interested in moderation... it also leans pretty heavily on there being stuff to flag and flagging style... and it's more weighted towards people who are around more often. Should comment flags be weighted the same as post flags? If someone flags 15 comments on a post instead of flagging the post itself, that might be a problem...

EKons

suspensions over a year ago are considered "forgotten about", even if someone might have not really forgotten them (and, even then, you most probably don't mentally mark the user as "formerly suspended" mentally anymore...)

Catija

we also need to consider whether these targets cause people to behave differently because it makes them look like a better mod... if tons of flags = higher mod score... will people flag more? I don't know that's necessarily bad... just something to consider.

Kevin B

aren't there bots too that make use of people's flags?

Catija

8:54 PM

Charcoal, you mean? Yeah. I have a few flagging badges on sites I never set foot on (from before I worked here... the autoflagging doesn't work for mods).

EKons

@Catija correction: tons of helpful flags ;)

Catija

@KevinB Eh... I think that'd end up with more people having 40 and make it more difficult to differentiate. I'd rather increase the max and make it harder to get a perfect score (somehow)... Yeah, it's great to have a perfect 40 but if four candidates have 40, you know the bulk of the votes are likely going to be either "this username is better" or "this person was the first 40 score person I saw".

@EKons Flagging more doesn't mean the flags aren't helpful. Just means they're flagging for possibly more minor issues.

EKons

I was just removing the case where most of the nominee's flags are declined

Catija

Rob's message says that with the "(pass/fail)" I think... turns the flags into a ratio of good/bad flags. :)

EKons

yeah, traditionally we count them as the difference (pass - fail)

and what about the fail = 0 (i.e. superhuman flagging ability) case?

I'd say the ratio is better described as (pass/total), where if total = 0 then the flagging score is also 0

Rob

9:07 PM

@Catija I don't know if some people did behave differently and thus have all the Checkboxes to get 40 but I do know that the appearance of a high Candidate Score and being fairly well known (high Rep) on the one site wipes out other great candidates whom are mearly a blip on the Candidate Score badge. --- Autoflagging does involve some minimal skills: setting it up correctly so you get flags, being available in CHQ to field questions and offer advice, and responding to notifications

about Flag Conflicts.

EKons

...and also knowing your conditions

Sonic the Wizard Werehog

@Catija So...to be clear, after the site graduated, an election was held, but not enough candidates nominated, so the term of the pro-tem moderators was extended into graduation?

Didn't know that that was a real edge case. When editing FAQs regarding the topic, I was always clear to mention "once the site graduates and the new moderators are elected", though I was only thinking of the brief period of time while the election is still in progress.

@Rob It's unlikely (and in some cases not possible) for users who served as pro-tem mods to get some candidate score badges due to their inherent nature, e.g. Deputy and Marshal for flagging posts.

Also, if they spent more time moderating rather than contributing posts, they may have a low rep-based candidate score.

Catija

@Rob Sure... I mean, if you just need to offer a bounty in order to get another point, seems like an easily-attainable goal.

@SonictheWizardWerehog Yep.

@SonictheWizardWerehog Not sure what the and does there... example?

Sonic the Wizard Werehog

Pro-tem moderators losing their privileges due to graduation.

Catija

Thing is, from what I understand it's pretty uncommon that a graduation election doesn't have enough candidates. I'm not actually sure it's happened before.

Sonic the Wizard Werehog

9:20 PM

^ that is an "edge case" therefore

Catija

@SonictheWizardWerehog But that's still accurate. If no new moderators are elected because the election fails, then the pro-tems still have their diamonds.

Rob

@SonictheWizardWerehog It would be great to include that edge case when you have time available to make an edit. --- As to your other point, that is why we have been discussing 'Candidate Score doesn't reflect everyone's ability, and sometimes it overreflects one or two people well above everyone else'.

Sonic the Wizard Werehog

@Catija Yes, what I was referring to was that I ended up already factoring that case in, but I wasn't thinking of that case at the time; I was thinking of something different.

@Rob You mean, directly say "if there are not enough candidates in a graduation election"? I don't think that's necessary; the original text is concise and the goal of FAQs is to be concise.

Rob

I don't know the specific FAQ to which you refer, link when you have time please. I will review in in the next few hours it you want a second set of eyes to poke at the FAQ. It's important for Meta FAQs to include all the ins and outs so when people refer to them they have accurate information available. You mentioned that you had previously did some editing, I was only suggesting that if you have new information (now) that it would be kind of you to make another edit, time permitting.

Sonic the Wizard Werehog

It is possible to inflate one's helpful flag count by flagging every closeable question as "very low quality", so that the flag gets auto-dismissed as helpful once the question gets closed.

EKons

9:29 PM

flags do help

Rob

Arguably that is useful, and takes effort.

It might be low effort but it's better than no effort.

Sonic the Wizard Werehog

@Rob Last section of meta.stackexchange.com/a/75192/377214. (I did make a minor edit, but otherwise all info there is correct and mostly comprehensive.

Kevin B

just like flagging comments on a post that is about to be deleted, or flagging for closure prior to having the vote for closure privilage

Rob

Thanks I'll look at it later.

Kevin B

I didn't cast my first close flag/vote till after i had said privilege, same for edits

Sonic the Wizard Werehog

9:32 PM

One thing is, you can both flag as VLQ and vote to close the post.

Kevin B

so i have 0 edit suggestions

Rob

I often flag, and boom it disappears - it would have been mine or the next person - sometimes it's a race if the alert comes and you've got less than a few seconds to flag (especially on Meta, or Physics). :)

Kevin B

that makes me think though... maybe a better criteria for some of the privileges should be actually using the prior versions of those privileges "correctly".

Sonic the Wizard Werehog

Right, the existing model of privileges can be detrimental to users who mostly participate in curation and moderation rather than contributing content.

Kevin B

like, until you have n suggested edits approved, you can't unilaterally edit. until you have y flag for closure posts actually closed, you can't vote to close. but i can see that being problematic in newer sites where there are less (or in some cases no) users to perform the larger actions

Sonic the Wizard Werehog

9:36 PM

(As an example, when I was a Wikipedia contributor, I mostly participated in page curation as well as meta-moderation, rather than editing articles.)

Rob

A few dozen comments ago it was mentioned that Flag failures should count negatively.

Also mentioned was that effort on all the sites (and total Flair) should factor into the Candidate Score on the one site where the election is being held.

BB soon

forest

10:30 PM

guys guys

I love this site design

Only one problem

There are too many PNGs and not enough static GIFs.

I also see a distinct lack of complaints about CompuServe. :P

Also, is the little "guestroom" thing on the bottom just for looks?

I think it must be, unless it's using web sockets.

user302202

10:47 PM

@forest it's all client side

forest

damn

Mazura

I can't even read ELU. Real funny guys...

user302202

> Wanted to ddos/troll @StackOverflow's April fool's guest book - until I realized it was all just fudged local content. The joke was, in fact, on me. -- Ryan Moore at 6:50 PM - 1 Apr 2019

forest

loool

user302202

Next step: switch "new questions feed" to be generated client-side using StackRoboflow

user302202

10:56 PM

DSSE election looked very sad until last-moment arrival of Stephen Rauch on the scene. Now, #1 and #2 are clear, it remains to pick #3... for me it's oW_

forest

> There are so many better things for the devs to do.

lols

It's a shame my browser doesn't support Comic Sans. :(

user302202

@SonictheWizardWerehog No more diamonds or employee status.

user302202

Also, the legal Adam is no longer an employee.

user302202

No LinkedIn update yet.

user302202

The "Privacy Officer" part of the Privacy Policy now needs an update.

user302202

11:08 PM

user302202

From Why are Stack Overflow questions receiving so many views lately?

user302202

The number of posts is about the same as the previous Monday: 16593 on Apr 01 so far vs 16292 on Mar 29

user302202

Still 50 minutes left in the UTC day, but OTOH a bunch of Mar 29 posts got deleted since.

user302202

Apparently, clicking a random question to see the mouse pointer flare does not naturally lead to answering it.

user302202

> While the hope is that it will be several months, I would not be surprised if we don't have the [CEO] position filled next April 1st. meta.stackexchange.com/a/326190/302202

user302202

11:20 PM

Hm. Is Joel's move effective immediately? That's how I read the line "I’m stepping out of the day-to-day and up to the role of Chairman of the Board."

Shog9

naw

user302202

So it's a "when the replacement is found" thing?

Shog9

@AskQuestionWizard by my count, total hits to SO were only up by about 3 million overall... But about 2 million of those were to the homepage.

@AskQuestionWizard yep

I'm not gonna pretend to understand CEO-hunting, but from what I've heard it's a bit like a Victorian-era courtship: lots of people talking delicately about how to get other people together.

user302202

I have as much experience in Victorian-era courtship as in CEO hunting.

Shog9

we need more period movies about CEO-hunting

or... maybe not

I kinda feel like the bad accents and fancy clothing sorta make up for a lot

user302202

11:24 PM

Reading Victorian era courtship rules and marriage facts now

user302202

> In the relationship, intelligence was not at all required, neither any interest in the politics.

Shog9

the more things change...

user302202

Taking a Stand too often puts a strain on the marriage

Shog9

@AskQuestionWizard speaking of deleted posts, there are now a small group of moderators convinced you're running a bot to downvote and flag stuff. This to me feels like something best discussed in public instead of email threads, so I'm of a mind to start a discussion on MSE - anything I should know for context there?

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