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1:25 AM
Hey, @SonictheIntrovertedHedgehog - are you removing the vampire tag too ?
@JourneymanGeek Yes, per the upvoted burninate request
There were only two questions, so I removed it from both
Feel free to get rid of any glaringly obviously meta tags like learning.
@JourneymanGeek What a coincidence - I was going to file a burninate request for that tag.
Ah. Ok. Was going to say - I was taking my time with those so I was going to let you finish up.
Please do. Posting on my phone sucks
Q: Why are tags on MSE being regularly removed/deprecated without discussion?

Josh CaswellFor a while now, on a daily basis, the front page of Meta.SE has been populated with old questions bumped because of retaggings -- mostly removals. Today ignore seems to be the target. As far as I know, burnination of tags should be well-motivated and accompanied by a Meta proposal to make sure ...

@JourneymanGeek Just don't want this situation from happening, though
1:28 AM
Yup. One of the things I want to do it bring in that discussion
Imo, it's fine to singly get rid of obvious metatags while on a planned tag burn
@JourneymanGeek Gonna remove a few, but I filed a burninate request anyway, so the community knows
Oh. I'd wait unless there is another tag to burn
@JourneymanGeek I just don't want people to complain that "people are removing tags based on chat discussions" again.
I'm following the CM's advice in the top answer.
1:45 AM
Hi Karolyn! I'm not quite sure what your question is. Your title says "cooking frozen french fries" but your body seems to be asking how to clean the pan. Are you looking for help with how to cook them properly in the future or how to get the residue off? — Catija ♦ 2 hours ago
You don't want to know what my body is asking...
(it's usually donuts)
The body of the question ;p
That is annoying. Not sure it's a bug but...
I thought it was a dead pixel
(SO desktop view on mobile)
2:28 AM
Wah! Morning...
Whoa morning
3:27 AM
Whoa nellie!
3:37 AM
Q: Was there a change to the Community Bot that stops it from bumping questions?

ChuckWe normally see a few new questions per day, and then of those we normally only get what I would call "good" questions maybe 2-3 times per week. The thing that had kept the site seeming more fresh than that was the Community Bot, which would bump older questions to the top. This would typically ...

Did anyone feel the same on other SE sites?
Errr. Most of my sites are busy enough I don't notice
@Bookends Yeah, I was talking with him earlier about that... I don't think we changed that but I can see whether there's just a shortage of questions that qualify.
Based on this SEDE, there are 86 (107 from query - 21 last activity before 1 month) questions on Robotics.SE that are eligible for bumping, but apparently there's other criteria that are unknown to us..?
Anime.SE seems also lowered, though Android.SE is as strong as usual with Community bumps...
nvm, mystery solved
A: Was there a change to the Community Bot that stops it from bumping questions?

Shog9Good eye! This changed on around January 8th I've added a change here so that the community user can't rebump a question unless the original bump is more than 90 days in the past. The problem here was caused back in 2011 when the bumps were weighted a little more towards questions that h...

(someone gonna update the FAQ...?)
3:58 AM
SO jobs questions go on MSO right?
Yeah, it's only on SO
the FAQ is also missing the bit about how certain sites only allow n bumped questions on the homepage at a time, and will refuse to bump more until some roll off
jmac pushed for that for Japanese.SO, since almost everyone using it was in the same timezone so they'd go to bed and... Wake up to a page full of bumps
lol, that's interesting to know
I remember being annoyed that the same one post would show up every month, like clockwork. I think I eventually just voted on the answer to make it go away...
4:01 AM
But I had no idea whether the answer was correct or not. :hangs head in shame:
you could've downvoted it too
I think I did...
I don't remember.
ah, then all is well
Downvote all the things!!!!
4:03 AM
Upvote all the things!!!!
Things all the subvotes!
4:29 AM
So, no more of this behaviour...
Q: Why has the community user been bumping this question once a month for the last 9 months?

BoltClockThis question just got bumped. I've closed it now because it's an old question about a runaway issue in Google Chrome that must have been fixed some time in the last five years since the question was posted, but in the meantime, I notice that the community user has been bumping it almost exactly ...

@Shog9 Edited that into the FAQ, using that message as the source.
Also, looks like we have another historically-locked question that qualifies for bumping. Last time this happened, you just deleted them.
So, answered a question on Stack Exchange that received 70 upvotes in just a few hours. Slept feeling 'king of the world'. Woke up to see the question itself is deleted. All that reputation points lost #FML
The tragedy of King HNQ
@SonictheIntrovertedHedgehog as far as my understanding, after the January 8th update, an already bumped question can only be bumped again after 90 days, not 30 days
@Bookends Link please?
4:45 AM
@SonictheIntrovertedHedgehog MSO which is linked on MRobotics
I see that and raise 121....
> Now, questions have to wait a solid 4 months (120 days) after being bumped before they can be bumped again, unless some other form of activity (new answer, edit, etc.) occurs on them in the interim.
ah, right, "more than 90 days", not "after 90 days"
> or am I just fake news
Edited the FAQ and the changelog post as well.
4:58 AM
I still don't see how "have to wait a solid 4 months (120 days) after being bumped" comes from "the original bump is more than 90 days in the past."
I'm pretty sure there are numbers between 90 and 120.
@Mrs.Robinson Did you see the Robotics Meta link? It was posted a month later, when it was changed from 90 to 120.
@Mrs.Robinson There's a thirty day minimum. If the post is untouched in those 30 days, an additional 90 days are required, unless there's activity during those 90 days.... so, if the question waited for 40 days and someone answered it, it would be eligible for bumping by community again at 70 days rather than 120.
If a question got bumped on day 1000, next time it is eligible to be bumped is: (a) 1091; (b) 1120?
Hmmm... Oh, ... yeah. Should be a... I think. Only @Shog9 knows.
The soonest a second bump could happen would be 120 days but it's only 90 days since the first bump.
I think...
Code sez 120. Which I guess is technically "more than 90 days"
5:11 AM
@Mrs.Robinson I think it's possible that it should read "have to wait a solid 4 months (120 days) after being asked". ?
Maybe Jason meant 90 days after the existing 30 day waiting period
6:18 AM
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword with a link in answer, username similar to website in answer (131): Disable comment windows for all existing posts (pages/blogposts) by free antivirus for windows on wordpress.SE
6:33 AM
As seen on a question I just closed...
> Please reply as soon as possible as we are working on project deliverables.
7:04 AM
@JourneymanGeek Pizza delivery guy?
@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ if they made pizza like they wrote software....
@JourneymanGeek You never know what's in the pizzas these days
I know what's in mine
Even have a pizza steel my mom strongly distrusts
Steel pizza?
7:11 AM
Pizza Driven Development
@Alex might be hard on your teeth
Teeth are overrated.
Mine is actually a bit on the light side
7:49 AM
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Pattern-matching website in answer, potentially bad keyword in answer, potentially problematic ns configuration in answer, blacklisted user (151): Tips for golfing in Octave by varun gupta on codegolf.SE
8:03 AM
Whats going on in crazy outsourced world?
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Blacklisted website in body, potentially problematic ns configuration in body (100): what is the Superior Benefits of Embedded SIM (eSIM) to End the Era of SIM Cards? by Charlie Gefen on apple.SE
@Magisch woof
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Potentially bad keyword in answer, blacklisted user (70): Replace Viner Settanta seat post securing wedge by user41200 on bicycles.SE
I was more referring to @tink 's situation of being in the team with the annoying coworker
8:08 AM
8:23 AM
@Magisch Lots. Mainly me complaining about how we do releases and about how co-worker seriously hinders my productivity by not looking up a thing himself.
releases the kraken
everybody dies
I'm undiable Mith
@Magisch Heh. Juuuust got a call from the scrum master about sounding a little frustrated this morning.
Ah well, 1,5 week more after this and I hopefully don't have to handle this stuff ever again.
In actuality the kraken is just misunderstood
kraken in general do not attack humans, nor do they pose legitimate threats
8:34 AM
Neither do sharks
Except the creepy ones that attack ship wrecks
8:46 AM
@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ so, you can't be dyed?
@Derpy his colours don't run
@Magisch they just hug ships?
@Derpy <long slightly philosophical rant on the laymen concepts of color and whether molecules possess them>
@JourneymanGeek Itchy back probably
Ships aren't the ideal backscratchers but what else you got in the middle of a giant tub?
Rocks? The doorjambs of the sunken city of ryleh?
@JourneymanGeek Never actually heard of a confirmed instance of a kraken attacking a ship
@JourneymanGeek Did you mean: R'lyeh?
8:52 AM
@JourneymanGeek They contain too much moisture. Kinda unpleasant. Also it's awkward in front of the reefs
John C. Ryleh
@Magisch you have never heard of any survivors
@Derpy yes
@JourneymanGeek Obra Dinn?
@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ so does the sea
@JourneymanGeek I'm pretty sure small friendly terrier dogs have killed more people in the history of humanity then kraken have
8:58 AM
@Bookends it's on my list
@Magisch you can't prove that.
Quick Trivia:
tailwags menacingly
I spot eyespot
Zealandia is a sunken continent near Australia
it also happens to be very close to 47°9′S 126°43′W
And it actually originated from a mass of continental crust that sank after breaking away from Australia 60–85 million years ago...
Heh, like Australia sneezed
9:02 AM
So, every time someone claims that in Australia everything is trying to kill you....
Don't worry, in 20 years time we'll be saying the same about Bangladesh
remember, that is basically Cthulhu home.
Krakatoa is trying to kill me
@Bookends Negotiate a nuclear deal
Then sanction the hell out of Krakatoa
I negotiated, it threw lava at me
9:13 AM
Mr Lava Lava....
The email fiasco on MSO is interesting but people are so hyperbolic
"This could cost millions in GDPR fines" no it wont, regulatory agencies are not frothing at the mouth to bankrupt businesses
Wait. Another one?
Unless you mean the watch one
The currently 200+ MSO post
oh, the initial 2019 Dev Survey
Ah. Ok
Saw it
@JourneymanGeek what happened with the watch?
9:19 AM
The viagra email spam...
@Catija I see that there was some update on meta about duplicate comments with MathJax. Thanks for checking on that - if it was you who moved the things to SE devs.
I find it a bit frustrating how everyone reads "4% of turnover or 20m$" and immediately assumes that will be what's on the line. No agency to date has actually sanctioned such a maximum fine, and there have been significantly more serious violations sanctioned
@Magisch CC instead of BCc happened
oh that thing
I already forgot about that again, outside of deleting the email so I don't have the addresses anymore
there is so much fearmongering over GDPR
9:23 AM
I hear it myself all the time in my capacity as DPO of my company. Usually it's external "consultants" or vested interests that beat the drum of "your going to get fined out of business" when every single regulatory agency in my country has in fact said that no there will be no such thing. That combined with how GDPR currently plays out (for instance in my state, fines have so far only been issued after continued ignoring of agency guidance, you usually get a warning + follow up audit first)
and the agency has stated that its goal is not to fine people but to increase adoption of privacy protections across the industry without being unreasonable about it. The entire fearmongering industry is just preying on the fact that GDPR is somewhat vaguely written
this has been a speciality mint tea fueled rant by a confused and slightly miffed cactus
!!/tea Mag
@Mithrandir brews a cup of mint tea for @Mag
well how's that for luck
10:00 AM
@Magisch I find also a bit frustrating that some are claiming others are overreacting. I mean... one is free to think this is yet "just an error", but others are also free to be angry.
@Derpy No I totally get why people are angry and upset. I even wrote an answer outlining how people might be in the second meta. But I don't like how people are drumming the "this could be the end of the company in fines" thing. discussing potential litigation and regulatory action wrt. this is not really a useful discussion imo
now discussing why it's annoying and angering on the other hand I can get
@Magisch look, I will be direct, without any attempt at sugarcoating the thing.
some time ago JNat made an error with the BCc thing
but it was "just" that: an error.
a pretty bad error
an error that got me pretty annoyed when someone decided to make a joke out of it - and somehow put an image beacon lookalike in a spam mail directed to an hundred of other users (btw, wonder if the security investigations about that thing ever produced anything noteworthy)...
but still an error, and I am willing to forgive an error
This Amazon thing...
is not an error.
I'll admit i'm very glad about not being affected by the amazon thing
It is a shortcut
amazon in general is just an unending claptrap of spam
10:07 AM
a lame shortcut someone though was acceptable to reduce workload
and - to me - that only brings to one conclusion.
Whoever did that choice didn't care about consequences.
never attribute to malice or willful ignorance what can be attributed to a lack of training
"Acceptable cost / benefit" probably.
Also techniques like this are frequently used to build detailed profiles on people based on email address :P
> The most expedient way to deliver the gift cards was to upload a .csv file of email addresses to Amazon
> Again, we apologize for not considering the privacy implications.
read my previous messages carefully. I never said anything about malice
still seems like a failure of training
10:17 AM
I said "didd't care" - either willfully or not.
To be clear, you say lack of training.
I say the failure is at an higher level
Lack of empathy.
I doubt they were aware of the implications of sending emails to amazon
they said explicitly "Only for the purposes of sending gift cards" well there was probably some fineprint in the amazon disclaimer to upload these that wasn't read
even then what worries me is not that they "weren't aware". Is that no-one had enough TLC to ask himself what said implication were (or, in your example - to actually read the fineprint)
10:47 AM
A: Address ONLY used for SO account receiving programming related spam

Tim PostModerators and employees are forbidden to share any of your information. They refrain from doing so not so much it's because that's the rule, but because they're great people that hate recruiter spam too :) We log all access to personally-identifying information. No one, employee or moderator, h...

First phrase.
@SonictheIntrovertedHedgehog that question... Sans context...
> The problem is God object is penetrating inside the bunny
Most users affected by this are probably bound to arbitration if they want to sue anyways, so ;)
@Derpy that's slightly different. A few tech companies have been known to actually contact folks with higher profiles on SE in the past
(since email addresses were visible then)
@JourneymanGeek Beg my pardon, Journey, never said that was the same thing. I wanted to point out that the fist line is...
> Moderators and employees are forbidden to share any of your information
Ah yes.
10:55 AM
Thats an unfortunate wording I'd assume
We're aware of that. User facing employees are... Apparently this one wasn't
there's probably an implied tailing unless permitted to do so by our privacy policy & company policies... at the end of that
@Magisch actually it's correct as far as mods go
well yeah mods
@JourneymanGeek Which bring - to quote the cactus words - to this:
> means that it was possible for the marketing department to

a) arbitrarily access user email addresses

b) decide to send them to a third party to save time

c) nobody internally who could raise an issue was either notified or thought it severe enough to disclose to the users until after a complaint on meta
10:57 AM
@Derpy or d) realised it was an issue
@JourneymanGeek see the "lack of TLC" message I posted before.
@JourneymanGeek falls under c) nobody internally who could raise an issue was either notified
if someone in my company would want to do something like that, they'd have to ask me
and I'd probably say no
which has happened on similarish cases where the marketing department got creative and couldn't do what they wanted
@Magisch I'm not :)
but I get emails from Amazon anyway so I'd have a hard time proving damages
Which kinda comes down to what's a more workable workflow.
@Magisch again, would expect anyone to spend a minute thinking about the implications of that plan before having to reach out to you.
11:04 AM
@Derpy it's entirely possible that no one's ever complained or that's simply how they have done it or no one thought of adding a bunch of cya legalese or...
And it's probably not really marketing. It's probably folks closer to the data side of things
@JourneymanGeek ? Don't get what you mean, sorry.
It's probably a honest mistake that might have been happening for years
And now that someone pointed it out...
Armchair quarterbacking is good and fine but realistically people don't always reach for the perfect, watertight, cya, legally safe solution
They do what works
And grumpy person hat on, I wouldn't be surprised if a significant number of comments are by unaffected folks.
(OP was. I think his arguments as a whole were very reasonable, as was his reaction to the apology)
@JourneymanGeek and even if they are?
so, didn't affect me === it's fine?
@Derpy well depends on why you're unhappy
I'm personally not really a fan of piling on with 'you're all awful'
Which a lot if comments feel like. As an unaffected party maybe in future I'd ask about information sharing in such situations once things have shaken down.
11:33 AM
@Derpy you would be incredibly surprised
@Magisch read "expect" as "I would hope that at least [they spend a minute ...]", not as "I think they will"
basically, I meant that to me putting some Time, Love and Care into the task - meaning to do some bare research into what you are doing - in that case would be something that I would hope would be the bare minimum.
Totally agree that sadly is not often the case as this incident demonstrates
and no, again sadly , I am not even surprised since that seems to be how the world goes nowadays
Eh. That assumes bad faith
That could easily be because the small marketing department has 500 things to do and only 100 time
as ours does frequently
As opposed to 'amazon has this tool - we could use it to get these folks gift cards faster'
@JourneymanGeek where?
11:44 AM
@Derpy the mild insinuation people don't really care?
I only assume lack of giving importance to other felling / priorities.
Which could indeed be on purpose.
And saying people are not putting TLC into their work is literally the definition of armchair quarterbacking
You don't really know though
Sorry, we will have to disagree on this one.
That an action was ill considered or problematic is ok to say. Saying apparently people don't care dosen't seem very fair
We don't know the decision making factors.
You may not know that a mail is Personal Info. May not be trained. But apparently you were fine with just doing it.
11:47 AM
Eh. I don't consider email particularly secret
There are thousands of things I "just do" every day. For instance 3 minutes ago I made a SQL Update change on production without a transaction
But once again - it's about the action and changes, not the people
@Magisch you monster.... Actually... We do that too often
@Derpy It's a stretch getting from that to mal-intent though
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Link at end of answer, potentially bad keyword in answer (61): Federal Taxes on Retirement Money - Puerto Rico Taxes after Retirement by Anne Schuller on money.SE
@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ sorry, seems either I have some serious issues expressing my mind in a way that won't be distorted or ... I don't know.
To me, this "mal-intent" assumption that I don't recognize to have made would mean saying that someone knew what he was doing and didn't care.
something intentional
12:03 PM
@Derpy No I get what you're saying, but I'm saying that is not such a high bar to dislike people for
after all, is "mal-intent"
@Derpy and that's what it sounds like to me
I say that the only thing I see is Indifference.
choosing to not have to chose.
simply put..
@Derpy and I'm saying that's an unfair thing to assume
Meh, you guys keep putting things simply. My English is lacking at the moment so I'm gonna just solve some thermocalculations
12:07 PM
I think it's far more likely they do care a lot but things got lost in the shuffle
Assume? It is a pretty objective conclusion imho. Mind you, I am not talking about single persons, the only "person" in my reasoning is the company as a whole.
Had a problem, required a "lot" of work. Saw a simpler solution. Again, pretty sure the company didn't meant anyone harm when choosing said shortcut.
That said, I am indeed saddened to see that time was not put into considering the consequences of that shortcut.
@Martin :) I happened to know who to point that direction. I don't always (yet).
And that is what I meant by lack of TLC or indifference.
a cataclysmic impact, really :P
12:13 PM
the mail incident happened about a month ago.
to quote the reply we got back then.
> We're looking at what systems we can use for similar situations in the future, so as to avoid emails like these having to be sent manually from our personal inboxes, which is much more prone to errors like these happening.
@Derpy At the certificate training program that I did for GDPR we had one of the participant's company make such a mistake. We used it to discuss how to file regulatory agency disclosure things and what to expect in the following audit :p
was a newsletter then though
@Derpy which is essentially saying they'll try to fix it. Actually that's roughly what I do when I mess things up at work ;p
Granted my systems are less cool.
What else should they do? Chop off a pinky?
@JourneymanGeek .... not falling in the same trap a month later?
firing some people to placate the masses like big corps usually do is the wrong move and unfair in my eyes
In a slightly different scenario yes?
@Magisch I believe that would count as a pointy stick
12:21 PM
yep and the slightly different scenario makes things worse - still imho
And in this case was someone unsure of the process and CC instead of BCC
And was mainly an issue cause a well known user decided to be too clever
@JourneymanGeek the well known user was just the frosting
and the beacon joke was the frosting over the frosting.
Still an honest mistake
Which is a thing that happens
an honest mistake
And yet it keeps getting dragged up :/
12:30 PM
yep, it keeps.
Sure SO occasionally does dumb things. Sometimes they do mystifying things - but I doubt they hire folks who half-ass things.
I'm fine bringing up the first two, or even the third appropriately with the aim of changing things
And it keeps "getting dragged up" because it showed that one needs to think about what he is doing when handling personal info. Yet, the same mistake was made little later.
But if we're going to accuse folks of things let's not rely on conjecture and guesswork
and this time, it wasn't a mistake. This time it was a choice. An ill one, but a choice. A misguided one, but still a choice. Made by someone who didn't realize the consequences, still a choice. In a hurry? Still a choice.
Made presumably with good intentions. 'hey, let's not let people wait 6 to 8 weeks'
But you are free to assume the worst of folks.
12:35 PM
Again, said multiple time that I am sure of that. I will gladly leave nonsense like "they sold the data to amazon, got a big bag of $ and now trying to cover up" out of this, thanks.
But, in the same way, fell free to assume I meant that.
As for me, I will have just to conclude that whatever training, correction, information campaign the previous incident put into motion... didn't have the expected results.
At least not the one that I hoped for.
I must have sounded really, really annoyed this morning during standup... Two people have already called me to ask if I was okay :/
@Tinkeringbell Are you okay?
@Tinkeringbell Maybe you lost feathers?
@Magisch I'm kinda imagining something like that parakeet we used to have, it flapped its wings so hard dust and feathers would fly everywhere :)
Call it your Gust attack and tell them you have 19/20 PP left where that came from
12:59 PM
Pokemon reference
Hahaha I stuck with reassuring them I wouldn't be lying awake tonight and this was outside their ability to fix as well ;)
@Tinkeringbell Is it Nespresso Einstein getting to you or the current job generally sucks?
@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ It was Nespresso again
12:59 PM
In pokemon, attacks have "power points", abbreviated by the game as PP. You can use an attack that many times before your pokemon has to rest at a poke center or sleep

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