Tavern on the Meta

3:00 PM

Well 512 minus the length of the channel name iirc.

But you can break it up with a modern client and autothrottle.

@forest the problem with that comes when someone has the energy to just keep saying that... Constantly... All day long... Every day...

forest

@Shog9 And there are people who will argue against them all day every day.

Shog9

@forest yes

forest

So rather than censor, fight it with speech.

Shog9

Ever been stuck at a party or family get-together where the conversation degrades into two people arguing over one thing?

forest

3:01 PM

When you censor it, people start thinking "huh, maybe there is something to this holocaust denial I keep hearing about if the government doesn't want us to know"

Shog9

It's... super tedious

forest

@Shog9 I dunno, you're talking to someone who's spend 8 hours straight, uninterrupted, arguing with one single person on IRC. Twice.

I never consider it tedious.

Shog9

Normally IRL, you can just go away. Most folks don't take the guy standing on the streetcorner yelling seriously.

@forest and what'd the other folks in the channel think of that?

Mgetz

@forest and the \r\n and you need to factor in the user's hostmask and nick unless you want it to get cut off on receiving clients

forest

@Shog9 They were very impressed.

Bart

3:02 PM

@Shog9 Hey now, I'm making a difference!!

Mgetz

with the termination it's 510... then you have overhead

forest

Ah yeah, you're right.

Shog9

@forest all of them?

Mgetz

I have my own hexchat fork

Bart

@Shog9 I would guess only those who stuck around

Shog9

3:03 PM

how much of an audience actually stuck around for 8 hours?

forest

None lol

Shog9

yeah...

folks often forget, but... The reason we censor stuff here isn't because we're afraid of the signal but because it's noise

forest

@Shog9 All the ones that mattered. I mean it was an off-topic channel from a few years ago where the discussions were usually 1) sexuality, 2) drugs, 3) illegal sexuality, 4) drugs, 5) how bad our moderators are for kicking us.

So it wasn't that unusual for the channel.

Shog9

@forest ah, right, akin to the traditional soapbox / battleground forum then

"let's put this over here, with the rest of the fire"

forest

@Shog9 Even worse. It actually got shut down because it was out of control. :D

Shog9

3:06 PM

lol

This is the bit that always gets me when folks suggest SO shouldn't close questions - that folks should be allowed to ask whatever, and as long as it's tagged properly others can just ignore it if they're not interested.

It ain't like that hasn't been tried... A lot...

forest

@Shog9 Well IRC is known to have a low SNR.

It's not something to use as a role model. :D

I mean it's fun, yeah, but when people start saying to just make SE/SO casual like casual off-topic chats, things get weird.

Shog9

folks do say that though. A lot.

forest

I imagine said folks are always on the receiving end of VTC?

Shog9

not always

it's a seductive idea

"look at how nice this place is compared to the trashheap that is [other forum] - it sure would be great if folks could ask about [holy war] here instead of over there"

Magisch

in small part this is why I wanted IPS to happen

SE has a real chance at taming the perpetual trash fire that is that topic everywhere else

Tinkeringbell

3:18 PM

@Magisch You've given up? You don't want it to happen anymore?

Magisch

I would still like to, but I think they'll cut it off sooner rather then later

Tinkeringbell

Why?

Lack of traffic, lack of moderation or just not fitting SE?

Magisch

bad optics

the same reasoning that led to it getting booted off hnq can be extended to justify booting it alltogether

Tinkeringbell

3:32 PM

That's quite something though... Something I think we need to be aware of, but just in a 'this site isn't to judge' way, not in a 'OMG they're shutting us down' kinda way.

Shog9

@Magisch the thing is... Folks gotta actually want it to not be a trash fire

There's nothing particularly magical about this format that would prevent it

I think the mods and most of the core users are onboard there

but... That's definitely not a universally-held opinion

The site has had more'n it's share of trolling and troll-baiting, with a small but dedicated faction of users more'n willing to do the whole "argue for 8 hours while everyone else leaves" thing that forest described above.

ArtOfCode

naming no names there ;P

Derpy

Jedi Tricks #1

Shog9

I think it can be a useful site when folks remember that the goal is to inform, to educate. But, that can't be seen as a sideshow or accidental bonus.

Derpy

Morning everybody! It's so nice to see you again on Dec, 11th.

I think Shog9 should click the "activate hats" button any minute now.

Shog9

3:39 PM

message from the future!

Derpy

@Shog9 shhhh! Don't spoil my attempt at tricking Shog :P

Tinkeringbell

Noooo! Looks like the timer is actually going the wrong way

ArtOfCode

@Derpy 1940 minutes, to be precise

John Dvorak

I wouldn't an 8-hour-inferno every once in a while as long as it's properly contained, 100% opt-in with quick-escape and behind informed consent.

... and it sports a spectator-only mode

canon

@Shog9 When's the next town hall meeting so I can corner Haney again?

Shog9

3:44 PM

:shrug:

when we get someone with the time to do it

Shadow Wizard

@canon wasn't it aborted?

Bart

Haney?

Shadow Wizard

Haney ♦, Jacksonville, FL, United States

6.8k 31 51

Bart

Haha, yeah, I know that.

Just bad humour. Ignore me.

Shadow Wizard

lol

canon

3:51 PM

lol...

EKons

heh

Shadow Wizard

huh

9

Q: What happened to meta Town Hall chats?

As the title of the announcement post suggests, Town Hall chats are currently on hiatus. Why were they discontinued after six sessions? Weren't there plans to run them every two weeks? If I remember correctly, they brought in quite a few people from different branches about SE and allowed them t...

discussion support chat town-hall-chat

EKons

uh

Derpy

<rant>...voting the wrong post guys. You must vote the swag submission, not my reply about Frodo on SciFi</rant>

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

Ask for a Frodo swag

Derpy

3:57 PM

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ thanks, I already have Two rings.

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

@Forest wouldn't that make my internet even slower than it is right now?

That's probably a reference to something.

I can safely dismiss it so as not to look awkward

Derpy

An One Ring and a "Second Ring that Tolkien never intend but won't stop a game company to make a game about"

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

Don't let them figure out you didn't get it. And don't type on the chat that you didn't get it. Never.

Derpy

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ Oh, for tutorials and guides on how to manage my random obscure references to games no one played, shows no one watched or books no one read ask @ShadowWizard

Feeds

4:16 PM

Hang on, we got a call from the feds. They say we can do whatever with him, but the EPA doesn't want that laptop in the ocean. They're sending a team.

Shadow Wizard

12

Q: Is there any canon evidence of a second "One Ring?"

In the videogame "Middle-Earth: Shadow of War" the opening scene shows Talion, really Celebrimbor, forging a second Ring of Power to combat the original One Ring. My question is whether this is completely made up for game purpose or if there is some obscure reference to it in some of the append...

tolkiens-legendarium the-lord-of-the-rings video-games the-one-ring

/cc @M.A.R. ^

Mithrandir

@forest Victim blaming is never the answer. Do not put the onus on people for not having a "thick enough skin". Cyberbullying somebody causes real damage and can result in a loss of life. It is not "harmless" at all. At all.

Shadow Wizard

Sounds like you talk from experience? :/

Shog9

The only acceptable form of blame is The Wheel

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

@Shog9 The changes to the flagging UI are great. There's one thing, though, that I wanted to address. Since the system only considers the handling time of the flags, and doesn't in any way consider the actual flagging time, it's possible that if flags are allowed to linger for a while before being eventually declined, the user can be banned from flagging without any sort of warning.

Shog9

4:25 PM

yep

This can be handy at times

for example, when you've been warning them manually in chat for months

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

@Shog9 I'm not referring to the old loophole that I used to exploit. (Side note: you or someone else has since plugged that hole apparently)

Shog9

Adam patched it up; AFAIK we discussed the cause here a few times

Derpy

@ShadowWizard it is somehow accepted by the fans of that game that the inscription on the second rings read:

> "You shall have light undiminished,
All shall fear me and rejoice."

Mithrandir

@ShadowWizard Not first hand, but I am part of an online community that has a lot of kids who have been cyberbullied for e.g. being trans.

Derpy

@ShadowWizard so, since it is basically "YOU ARE GOING TO LOVE ME" it is pretty appropriate for me.

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

4:28 PM

@Shog9 Yeah, I can see where this is handy. For instance, if a user makes a lot of bad flags, but they're sufficiently spaced apart such that if each one were to be immediately handled, it'd be fewer than 10 flags handled per week and thus ineligible for a ban, whereas holding off on handling them and then doing so at once bans them.

Shadow Wizard

@Mithrandir yeah I can imagine this being super sensitive and hard for them. Kudos for trying to help! :)

Shog9

anyone else read "cyberbully" and picture...

Derpy

(... thinking of it, I could turn it into a necklace for the 'Shy plush).

Shadow Wizard

@Shog9 tin man? Nah... too cute looking.

Shog9

on The Internet, no one can see your shiny metal face

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

4:29 PM

@Shog9 There is another issue with the current system, though. It's possible for recently banned users to get immediately re-banned even if a flag they cast after the ban wears off is deemed helpful.

Shadow Wizard

@Shog9 or yellow face

Mithrandir

@ShadowWizard Sometimes... you have to just keep them talking.

@Shog9 What are those?

Shog9

Cyberman

The Cybermen are a fictional race of cyborgs who are among the most persistent enemies of the Doctor in the British science fiction television programme, Doctor Who. Within the context of the series, the Cybermen are a species of emotionless space-faring cyborgs who look to co-opt human beings or other similar species to join and populate their ranks. First appearing in 1966, the Cybermen were created by Dr. Kit Pedler (the unofficial scientific advisor to the show) and story editor Gerry Davis. The Cybermen have seen many redesigns and costume changes over Doctor Who's long run. Over the years...

Mithrandir

So the Doctor Who version of the Borg ;)

Shog9

@Mithrandir ...kinda? I don't know much about the Borg beyond one TNG episode and the old Slashdot MS image.

cybermen were one of the few monsters that actually saw a really solid episode in the last season

Shadow Wizard

4:45 PM

@Mithrandir yeah, but problem is when you/they stop talking, how to have them "self sustain" themselves. No?

Anne Daunted

We have truncation and truncated - which one do you prefer?

Mithrandir

@AnneDaunted I think we should go with

Anne Daunted

@Mithrandir What is your actual

Mithrandir

@ShadowWizard Usually, the conversation will involve urging to call a suicide hotline.

canon

@Shog9 I pretty much just picture Biff from Back to the Future II.

vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/bttf/images/7/7b/…

MEE

4:59 PM

Hi, just something I saw here. The site description for MSO is for discussion, support, and feature requests for this site. This should probably be changed to ... for Stack Overflow...

Bart

Where exactly do you see that @MEE? I must be overlooking it.

MEE

on the migration banner

canon

@MEE The description should probably be updated to read: [Deprecated] See: Twitter

Bart

@MEE Ah yes. If it's not a dupe, it might be worth an MSE post.

MEE

or better on MSO?

Bart

5:04 PM

Given that it's shown on MSE, I'd go for that. But I suspect that issue to exist network wide.

Shog9

5:18 PM

@Bart it does; any question migrated from anywhere to a meta site will have that same description

MEE

@Shog9 oh, just posted it on MSO: meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/377679/…

Shog9

oh well

you might want to look at how the banner reads on the destination question...

@MEE FWIW, MSO's audience description is the same as Stack Overflow's

"professional and enthusiast programmers"

this is true for all/most meta sites

the problem here is simply that this isn't used when migrating questions to/from meta sites

the origin question always has the same description

the destination question has that description with "site" replaced by the audience string for the originating site

EKons

@Mithrandir lol

took me a

ɪBᴜɢ

yeah, it also took me a grea

@Shog9 Maybe time to change "audience" of meta sites to "discussions for [main name]"?

> This question came from our site for discussions for ~~Slack~~ Stack Overflow.

Shog9

Sounds tedious

Also inaccurate

EKons

5:32 PM

yeah, tbf, SE is a bit on-topic over MSO...

Shog9

The purpose of the audience string is to describe... The audience. The people who use the site

ɪBᴜɢ

an audience of bots? :P

MEE

@Shog9 so essentially, "this site" should just be replaced in the migration banner.

Shog9

Maybe?

MEE

But in this case it is probably not so important because most people won't see this page ever. I just thougt the whole string was wrong but it seems not to be so.

Shog9

5:42 PM

Accurate when going parent->child

We generally shouldn't be moving many questions between metas

MEE

yeah, that is probably only occuring ("often") for MSE<->MSO due to Jobs, Teams, etc.

MEE

5:55 PM

I don't know if anyone else noticed but suddenly the tabs on /questions are gone on MSE, SO and MSO. Other sites are still fine. Might this be related to CQLs?

Shog9

what do you mean?

MEE

@Shog9 I don't see the tabs (Newest, etc.) on this page but I see them here. I have CQL active and previously there were tabs shown (or CQL navigation controls).

Shog9

uh-oh

uh... oops

Nog Shine

@MEE you should have posted a question and you would have got good reps ;-)

MEE

@NogShine ahr, always doing it wrong....

Nog Shine

6:06 PM

@MEE Me?

MEE

No, I am always doing it wrong, posted it now.

Nog Shine

Posting question will create a record and when that bug occurs again, dev's job will be easy.

MEE

yeah

EKons

@MEE status-reproduced

EKons

6:38 PM

so... yeah, what can I, eh, put on this empty avatar to make it a bit more full? ... oh right, a hat... wait...

MEE

@EKons unfortunately you will have to wait yet an other day (1d 5h)

EKons

that's the point... ;-)

MEE

there is a unicode symbol for HATS: 🎩

Anne Daunted

Interestingly, this old MSE question was closed as a duplicate of a Server Fault Meta question. Probably before the schism, but still the first time I saw that.

EKons

lol that's the old way duplicates were represented back then, automatic edit

Mithrandir

6:49 PM

@AnneDaunted Looks like the target was migrated - the original link is on MSE.

Anne Daunted

Yes, that was a bit confusing

hellban has a very informative tag wiki excerpt: "Ghost town - Population: You"

Mithrandir

@Tinkeringbell a story for you...

A parrot who possesses people. Sound familiar? ;)

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

7:07 PM

@Derpy Oh so he does have a function other than urine references

EKons

uh... remember that @ShadowWizard shadows...

Tinkeringbell

@Mithrandir I don't possess people :P

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

@Tinkeringbell That's Satan's excuse

Tinkeringbell

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ Ssssht.

EKons

the cold finger of Satan rests on a poor fellow's lips

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

7:16 PM

It is a relief to know that Satan is a parrot

Shadow Wizard

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ hardly

EKons

yeah, we thought it was a goat...

Shadow Wizard

@EKons true

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

Yeah goats are dumb

Shadow Wizard

51

Q: How do I become a goat again after turning into a bag?

I was walking around in the Goat Simulator: PayDay expansion when I came to a Bag Vendor with a platform to the left of it. I stood on the platform and literally mutated into a bag (a loot bag in PayDay). Now all I can do is hop around as a bag. How do I change back into a Goat? Note: I am as...

goat-simulator

Tinkeringbell

7:19 PM

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ Hey... I know my character isn't flawless, but that's kinda insulting!

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

Are you the only parrot in existence?

Bingo! You're caught

EKons

then she wouldn't hate green parrots...?

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

@ShadowWizard Linguists always express amazement over the range of possible meaningful sentences you can make with a language

Shadow Wizard

@EKons The neighbour's parrot is always greener

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

And can do more tricks

Tinkeringbell

7:25 PM

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ I dunno. The neighbor's parrot looks pretty dead to me :P

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

Huh, did everyone get kicked out of sites?

@Tinkeringbell See what I mean, playing dead for so long in such an authentic manner

Tinkeringbell

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ I didn't.

Shadow Wizard

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ blame @Bart

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ I didn't.

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ I did

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ Poing

Aaron Hall

9:28 PM

in The Water Cooler on The Stack Exchange Network Chat, 5 mins ago, by Aaron Hall

Keep the upvotes where they count - on the answer.

Mithrandir

9:44 PM

@AaronHall Without questions, there would be no answers. Questions are the bloodstream of the site. Without questions, there can be no answers - and there can be no site. Make sure to upvote good questions as well.

Aaron Hall

@Mithrandir I'm referring to comments but that's a good point too...

Tinkeringbell

@AaronHall Good comments need upvotes too ;) If I make a comment pointing out a need to improve a question, it having a few upvotes shows the user that this is a really important change to consider ;)

Mithrandir

Heh, I didn't even look at the context. But enough people diss questions or just don't vote on them that it ticks me off when people claim questions are useless.

Aaron Hall

I'm talking to an answerer who responds in the comments too much.

Tinkeringbell

@AaronHall ;) How are we supposed to know! There's only one message :P

Fabby

10:17 PM

@AaronHall When I search for something ans the question helped me, I upvote the question.

When I don't know the answer to the question and it's well-written, I upvote the question (hardly ever happens)

When I answer the question and my answer is accepted, I also always upvote the question but I edit it to become a good question before I upvote. (If needed: most of the time, I've edited it already)

Comments get upvoted when I'm in the queues doing reviews: E.g. in the Low Quality queue if someone posts a comment "Hey, this is a duplicate of the existing answer" (=Thank you answer) I upvote

When a comment makes me LOL, I upvote it as well.

That's about it, really... @AaronHall 0:-)

@AaronHall Ah... Urgh... One of those that think this is a forum...

Aaron Hall

I try to upvote questions I answer ("if they're good enough to answer, they're probably good enough to upvote.") and comments that suggest improvements.

Fabby

(Sorry for the rant!)

Aaron Hall

If they're just jokes, I flag them for deletion as this isn't the lay-person side of reddit.

Fabby

@AaronHall :D True! I'm with you on that one

@AaronHall One of my goals in life it to make this planet a happier place to be, so I upvote anything that makes me LOL...

(as I assume maybe wrongly that it will improve someone else's mood too!)

Aaron Hall

As a "post author" I put my effort into posts where it counts. I don't usually respond in comments, I put the material in my answer.

Fabby

10:24 PM

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

@AaronHall :D [Answer edited] is 50% of my comments.

Sometimes when they run into other issues while trying to solve their original question, I'll point them to other Q&As though.

Aaron Hall

I really like it when the new guys where I work tell me my answers are really good and helped them a lot.

Fabby

If they become too chatty without upvoting, I delete my answer.

@AaronHall Urgh... You should come work where I work then: lots of new guys all the time!

(Please don't: stay away! Not because I don't like you, but because you wouldn't...)

Transcript for