Tavern on the Meta

Dukeling

12:17 AM

I'm not here enough to know what's going on, but it sounds serious...

Journeyman Geek

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog I did. I mean I literally see no change in the behavior that got you suspended from chat

You got kicked pretty soon after you came out of suspension

I see the very same attempts at rules lawyering we find is an annoyance

So clearly your approach is out of alignment with folks

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog So here's the thing. I (and I am sure many of the other ROs and clearly many of the staff) feel that the way you have attempted to reach that goal has been disruptive

If a good majority of the conversations we're going to have is no sonic don't do this.. this is not going to work

In a sense the "forgiveness" cards that you'd have for being autistic are spent, and we're going to treat you exactly the same as anyone else who is being disruptive. Its ok. We've got a few users who've lived through that, and turned out not too bad.

You've completely spent any "social capital" you have had -whether its for being helpful, or even for having your condition, so you're either going to have to learn to adjust to us and not get free passes all the time or find that you're constantly getting negative reinforcement for the behaviours we've been trying hard to curb

Journeyman Geek

12:40 AM

Sooo to conclude - if you can actually carry on a conversation, not hijack current topics, not bug people, not twist reasons into pretsels once being asked not to do something, not do something once asked, listen, not ping people demanding answers (which you just did) ... sure, its not entirely out of alignment.

the monitoring machine is warbling at me. WHY IS iT WARBLING AT ME?

Journeyman Geek

1:03 AM

pokes the room

don't all y'all talk at once ;)

Also, one nice thing about working weekends. Unlimited data

Catija

Down side of Friday nights in the US... everyone's out having fun.

Journeyman Geek

Well, its one thing that makes up for working weekends ;p

I probably will be looking at other jobs in feb/march since my contract ends april. I should be able to renew but ehhhhhh

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

@JourneymanGeek Just needed some time to think over the series of messages you just posted. Sorry for the demand; it just looked like you were addressing something else. I guess those goals are indeed out of alignment with this room, so I'll just keep my emulator turned on here.

Turning off my emulator has caused so many problems here.

I still want a place to fulfill those goals, to be able to talk to staff members one-on-one and obtain official information, to be able to talk to others about SE with my emulator turned off, and (new one) to be able to propose ideas on how to make the network better without a risk of losing something I value very deeply.

Journeyman Geek

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog no one "really" can demand the staff's time one to one

except maybe Joel ;)

Or any other user - "Privileged" in some way - mod or RO or otherwise

I do realise that folks with your condition can get a bit "focused" but its worth remembering that there's a world outside SE, even for employees and the most dedicated users

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

1:19 AM

@JourneymanGeek Ideally, given the advice of other ROs, would split off discussion about SE into a new room while keeping this one for off-topic chatter (tested and done with the C++ room on Stack Overflow, and sort of on SU), but considering that you took away my room creation privileges...

Journeyman Geek

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog "you took away"

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

@JourneymanGeek Your third 30-minute kick caused the system to permanently ban me from creating new rooms and inviting users to existing rooms; this ban can only be lifted by a moderator.

Journeyman Geek

Please consider the accusations you make very carefully. We kicked you cause you didn't listen. We asked you be suspended cause you literally left us no choice.

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

This is documented in the FAQ.

Journeyman Geek

Right. PLEASE take the time from the next kick to very carefully consider why your actions have led us to this point.

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

1:27 AM

I replied to my moderator message asking for those privileges to be reinstated.

Journeyman Geek

I'm not sure we're getting through

You got kicked because your behaviour has been disruptive over an extended period of time.

The system takes away that behaviour because if you can create a new room, you can be distruptive in different ways - creating rooms to invite folks (same as pinging really) and other ways I don't want to give you ideas about.

If you end up getting sand in the eyes of all the other kids in the playground, your sandbox privileges are going to get revoked. Even if you were standing outside with a giant fan.

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

Let's let it go for now and just let the CMs decide that.

Journeyman Geek

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog I didn't bring it up.

I actually was trying to change the subject cause the last, oh hour of talk has been about you

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

@JourneymanGeek I know, and I'm letting it go.

@JourneymanGeek Maybe you should try to become a full-time employee somewhere, rather than an independent contractor

Would help you get a better schedule.

Journeyman Geek

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog if they'd hire me, sure

I'm here cause I needed a job and its a job

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

1:39 AM

@JourneymanGeek Out of complete curiosity, and I don't wish to start a long discussion about this, did you end up reading the "six rules" link I sent you a while back? (It's OK if you didn't.)

Journeyman Geek

I did.

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

@JourneymanGeek What did you think of it?

Journeyman Geek

ehh. So, here's the thing. We can go "Ok, so autistics work better this way"

but we also need to look at the broader community, and its health

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

@JourneymanGeek My question was, what did you think of the article on its own, not in relation to any prior events here?

Journeyman Geek

People here have not been happy with the explicit rules we tried to lay out for your benefit, and they haven't quite worked well either. We're constantly trying to decide if our bluntness has the necessary effect.

So, its been entirely unhelpful in dealing with folks who are autistic, compared to well...

I donno. We've made pretty impressive steps with some other users

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

1:42 AM

@JourneymanGeek It's my fault. I've been sticking to my guns too much and persisted on keeping my emulator off.

If, on the other hand, you met me in real life, you wouldn't see me behave like this - if I did, my parents wouldn't have let me fly 1,200 miles away from home.

Journeyman Geek

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog Well, at this point, I figure the best thing for me to do is to put the "mod" hat on and deal with the room as I would any other room on the network

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

@JourneymanGeek I think you should keep doing that.

Journeyman Geek

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog it has hurt the room badly that you have, and if we don't see the changes in behaviour we have asked for, we'll have to continue, well...

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

@JourneymanGeek I understand.

Magisch

Blaming everything on autism isn't helpful either. I'm autistic myself. I have a bunch of issues that I have to address daily about my behavior and conduct. It's not something I can fob off onto others to have to accomodate. You have to find a balance that works for you while not alienating everyone around you. It's not working currently.

Journeyman Geek

1:46 AM

So's @bwDraco and he's actually made a lot of progress over time

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

@Magisch I've been seeing a therapist, and while it's a way to go before I get an official diagnosis for ASD, I've been diagnosed with obsessive-compulsiveness.

Journeyman Geek

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog ... yanno, a lot of your behaviour is basically that

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

@Magisch Finding that balance takes a lot of time and effort. I've expended that in real life, but for some reason, I thought this could be the place where I wouldn't have to. Clearly, that didn't work out.

Magisch

This is a social setting like any other

Journeyman Geek

yup

Magisch

1:49 AM

I've had my share of run ins with being annyoing myself, there's no shortcut to learning how to conduct yourself properly here either.

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

As I said, I used to think of this as a place where I could turn off my emulator and talk all I wanted about SE.

But...

51 secs ago, by Magisch

This is a social setting like any other

So I can't do that.

Journeyman Geek

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog a lot of us talk about SE and events in general

I do!

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

"turn off my emulator AND"

Magisch

Personally I've recognized that I can never actually turn off my learned behavior that makes me palatable to those around me. It's not something you can just lay down anywhere. Social settings in general require to adapt to their rules (spoken and unspoken) for you to conduct yourself succesfully. Some settings may be more accomodating, but that's a thing that'll never leave you.

Journeyman Geek

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog I think an important accomodation folks made was try to set ground rules that would help you keep talking to people.

But... well...

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

1:52 AM

@JourneymanGeek I kept arguing and disagreeing with them. I know.

Journeyman Geek

Now, I'm really feeling like you're trying to make it seem like you're a victim for "depriving" you of a space where you can talk about these things

Magisch

none of us actually hate you, you know

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

@JourneymanGeek No?

Journeyman Geek

on the other hand, I've had more than one user talk about being uncomfortable with your behaviour so...

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

Why is that?

Journeyman Geek

1:53 AM

I need to make sure they feel safe too

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog well, the pinging, sometimes not respecting folks boundaries...

I gave the example of SU for a reason

Magisch

People aren't going to confront you every time they're annoyed with you. They'll stop coming to the tavern, they'll avoid you in other ways. It spills over onto meta. Some people see a post by you and think "Jesus christ not this guy again" and hit a downvote sometimes instinctively. Social cues are mostly hidden in this context. People don't like being outright confrontational until things boil over. This has created a chilling effect on the entire room and at some point we're forced to address

6

Journeyman Geek

^^^^

Magisch

that as room owners here.

Journeyman Geek

(also, I half suspect @Magisch gets this better than I do. I'm differently non neurotypical ;) )

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

Guess it's time to rebuild the social capital here.

@JourneymanGeek Right, for this reason I fear that I may have soured my relation with Catija. Kept asking her too many questions here. Now I've sent her a couple of emails, she hasn't responded to those.

Journeyman Geek

1:58 AM

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog also - I don't care about meta reputation. I care about the impact I have on the broader SE community, and in some cases things specifically for SU

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog so.. give her space.

Its often useful to let people communicate in their time

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

@JourneymanGeek Asked her elsewhere why she wasn't responding, she said she wasn't sure what to say.

Journeyman Geek

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog ok.. see

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

She's an excellent person to talk to, and I personally feel that talking to her about the whole situation will help reduce some of my stress.

Journeyman Geek

broader issue. You make demands on folks time and attention

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog she has a new job she needs to get up to speed on

and other issues

I'm sure there's a ton of other things in life.

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

My persistent fear is that people forget about things, and need reminders.

Journeyman Geek

2:01 AM

Another broader issue. You need to learn to trust people.

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

Talking to her will also help address the 2-3 goals above.

Journeyman Geek

Also are these things utterly critical?

Cause as I pointed out, she has a ton of things going on at once. Many exciting things, sure but...

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

Stress is bad for the mind and body.

Magisch

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog Life ... happens

People have a lot to do. Sometimes they forget. Sometimes priorities take over and some things aren't as important as you thought

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

I need to understand that, unlike myself, others won't simply drop everything to respond if they get pinged in chat.

Journeyman Geek

2:04 AM

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog and needing to deal with well... "HEY Y NO RESPONSE!" is... stress too

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

12

Q: Message being seen but not responded, what is the correct response?

I will sometimes ask a friend how their day was or another question via chat message. Sometimes the message will be marked as read but then they don't respond for a few day or even longer (6 months). I will see they are online, but hear nothing. From college, I have learned that when a friend ...

Journeyman Geek

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog heh, I think I have someone I pinged... 6 years ago with no response

I assume she dosen't want to speak to me XD

Magisch

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog That and ... your priorities aren't always theirs. Some people have other responsibilities and will always prioritise differently thne you do. Sometimes other things get in the way that you don't know. You ought to ... resist wanting to know about all of that and finding out everything. It's unhealthy and will only stress you out.

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

@JourneymanGeek I think you should answer that question.

Journeyman Geek

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog I do have a different perspective though

bwDraco

2:10 AM

roar

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

@JourneymanGeek I'd answer with your different perspective.

Journeyman Geek

But here the autism is an important thing.

bwDraco

24 mins ago, by Journeyman Geek

So's @bwDraco and he's actually made a lot of progress over time

Journeyman Geek

the mental processes of someone with social anxiety would be utterly different

@bwDraco well, you have lol

And seriously, we need to recognise stuff like that too

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

@JourneymanGeek Not every reader reading that question is necessarily autistic.

bwDraco

2:12 AM

@JourneymanGeek Of course, I wouldn't disagree, but I'd say I still have a long road ahead of me.

Journeyman Geek

"They don't want to talk to you. Its fine, move on" is not an answer

@bwDraco we all do in some way

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

@bwDraco I sure hope Sega doesn't complain about trademarks with my username

bwDraco

@JourneymanGeek Yup. The key thing here is a lack of encouragement to move forward.

Journeyman Geek

.... boo...

;p

bwDraco

It's one thing to accept your condition. It's another to actually put effort into addressing it.

Journeyman Geek

2:13 AM

We kinda felt the name change was not needed, and if asked would have had strong words with the user who asked for it

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

Didn't you have to change your username due to a trademark lawsuit?

Magisch

One thing that's crucial to realize is that nobody can do that moving on for you.

bwDraco

There wasn't a lawsuit.

I'm not really going back at this point.

It was an email sent to me from the user.

I'm a bit hesitant to name names, but here's the user in question:

Journeyman Geek

lol I think if someone sued Draco over a username, we might have considered chipping in for a lawyer, for the principle of the thing.

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

In any case, I hope Sega doesn't file one against me, because I sure didn't act like the real Sonic they're trying to portray

Magisch

2:14 AM

Life sucks and isn't fair. The only person who can put a dent in making it better is yourself. If a situation is stressing you out to no end and not working for others around you .. take a step back, examine what you're doing, and try to find healthier modes of engagement and behavior. It's going to be painful but it'll be worth it in the end.

bwDraco

DragonLord, Los Angeles, CA

3.5k 1 23 32

c++ netbeans javascript php input android filechooser

Journeyman Geek

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog if they ask you to change it, you can either claim fair use or change it.

Magisch

Highly skeptical sega would even care

Journeyman Geek

But hey! If anyone decides to try to bully me over my username, I can do what I have always wanted to do.

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

Nintendo cares over peoples' use of Mario and related characters

Magisch

2:16 AM

@JourneymanGeek rename to master geek?

Journeyman Geek

"I refer you, dear sir to the reply given in the case of Arkell v. Pressdram."

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

@bwDraco Didn't you also change your Wikipedia username as a result of that guy?

Changing a Wikipedia username isn't so simple, because the username is the actual ID.

bwDraco

Yeah. I basically changed my name everywhere doing so was technically possible.

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

So practically every action you've taken would have to be moved in the database to the new name.

Journeyman Geek

@Magisch One never quite masters being a geek ;)

(Also I love the sound of Journeyman so, maybe in future it would be "Journeyman $jobtitle")

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

2:18 AM

There was a user who made dozens of thousands of edits, who changed their username to add the word "Reborn" at the end. That move caused a lot of database lag.

bwDraco

This was something that happened almost three years ago, and I don't think I really want to change it back. I've actually taken a pretty close look at the trademark information and the claim really doesn't have any solid basis.

Journeyman Geek

@bwDraco which we said ;)

bwDraco

Checked again... the trademark is registered for several completely unrelated uses. The user's own registration expired a long time ago.

In any case... I don't really see a good reason to change it back. I'm keeping it and I'm not really upset about it any more.

Journeyman Geek

Evil thing to do would have been to flag the user for impersonation ;)

bwDraco

In some places, I go by the alternate name DraconicPenguin – somewhat inspired by my Linux experience.

But I'm not changing my name to that needlessly, either :)

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog I think I had about 1500-2000 edits at the time, so it wasn't that big a deal...

bjb568

2:40 AM

@TravisJ Hi.

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

edit-reject-pls meta.stackexchange.com/review/suggested-edits/59730

Journeyman Geek

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog at least 2 of those tags feel useful

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

@Shadow reopen-pls has since been edited quite a bit: meta.stackexchange.com/questions/315474/…

Journeyman Geek

Hmm. Bit of a proposal - though I'd like to hear from people like @ShadowtheWelcomingWizard and such on it...

would there be a value in having a seperate room for close/reopen requests?

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

@JourneymanGeek He was the one who closed that question initially.

Journeyman Geek

2:48 AM

We used to do that in the old days, before review queues

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

@JourneymanGeek [cv-pls] may not get too much visibility

Journeyman Geek

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog ah, true

But I'd happily be sitting in a room like that - but ya, not as visible as here

rene

6:54 AM

→ 4 messages moved to Chimney

Shadow the Welcoming Wizard

7:10 AM

@JourneymanGeek not really. Too boring to stick in such a room. Better approach might be moving the close/reopen requests to other room once they are handled or after a while so they don't clutter the room, if that's the problem.

Journeyman Geek

I'm ok with that

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

@ShadowtheWelcomingWizard I'd be OK with that if SE were to fix the occasional invite bug (occasional spurious invites when one's messages get moved to another room)

It's happened often enough in SOCVR that their official website has an FAQ on it.

cv-pls meta.stackexchange.com/questions/315487/…

Shadow the Welcoming Wizard

7:26 AM

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog still a dupe. I reopened the other one though so the OP can add their suggestion as new answer there.

Tinkeringbell

9:11 AM

Morning!

Somewhat

Morning!

Tinkeringbell

@Somewhat Hey, I'm the parrot here! ;)

woof

@JourneymanGeek woof

right

9:24 AM

Left?

Journeyman Geek

if all goes well I will have the tail end of jan, and all of feb off

Tinkeringbell

Nice!

Journeyman Geek

oh, we basically need to clear leave before our contract ends

and there's 3 guys finishing in april

Tinkeringbell

Any special plans for that free time?

Journeyman Geek

not yet ;)

though going to india and... well

sorting out some stuff that's not moving right now does smell like an option

Tinkeringbell

9:26 AM

@JourneymanGeek Ah. I think I saw you mentioning something like that in the transcripts from last night ;) would it be easy to get another job?

Journeyman Geek

oh

they will renew the contract most likely

Tinkeringbell

@JourneymanGeek Heh, good luck with that!. I hope you'll find time for it

Journeyman Geek

(but ya I totally will be applying elsewhere around that time ;p)

Tinkeringbell

@JourneymanGeek :) that's where my thoughts were as well ;)

Journeyman Geek

Well, datacenters are coming up so there's hopefully openings there

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

9:28 AM

@JourneymanGeek "We're legally dogs, right? Woof." youtu.be/Mq785nJ0FXQ?t=461

Tinkeringbell

@JourneymanGeek Nice. What would you be doing if you're going to apply and get hired there? Dust off server racks? ;)

Journeyman Geek

@Tinkeringbell well, set up servers

Tinkeringbell

I didn't think datacenters had much personnel

Journeyman Geek

I'm a hardware geek after all

Tinkeringbell

Hahaha that's true :)

Journeyman Geek

9:30 AM

Unless well... ;p

BUUUUT that happens rarely

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

@JourneymanGeek Meltdown?

Tinkeringbell

@JourneymanGeek ;)

Journeyman Geek

in theory, this job isn't too bad

just a few annoying bits here and there

Tinkeringbell

My mom always told me you're never going to find a job that doesn't have anything annoying ;)

Journeyman Geek

ya

Tinkeringbell

9:33 AM

Even that didn't make me rescind my promise to never go work a nursing type job :P

Journeyman Geek

Well, its wether the pay/non annoyances/fullfillment outweigh the annoyances

Tinkeringbell

Or how bad you need whatever little pay you get ;)

Journeyman Geek

That sentence is breaking my brain a bit.

lol

that's a odd motivator

Tinkeringbell

Okay story

Before I was born, my mom worked as a geriatric nurse in a care home.

Journeyman Geek

or in my case "You need a job to earn money to buy the house that you will buy when you get married, for which you need a job... "

Tinkeringbell

9:34 AM

I always told Mom that later, when I would be a grown-up, I would go on to become a nurse too

Until grandma landed in the hospital with intestinal cancer, on a ward where all people had intestinal problems

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

My intended career path tends to have lower pay on average among those in my college major.

Tinkeringbell

One of those had had laxatives. A lot. And wasn't very mobile. And was wearing 2! adult diapers

Journeyman Geek

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog sush conversation is happening.

@Tinkeringbell 0_0

one on top of another?

Tinkeringbell

Well. The inevitable happened, imagine stuff spattering from the bed to the floor and smelling baaaaaad!

πάντα ῥεῖ

@JourneymanGeek How else?

Tinkeringbell

9:37 AM

So yeah, that's when I decided to never become a nurse

Journeyman Geek

@πάνταῥεῖ iDK, front and back?

@Tinkeringbell ... oh dear

Tinkeringbell

And my mom told me there wouldn't be a single job without annoyances

Journeyman Geek

I've cleaned overnight dog accidents and... I can imagine that, human sized ;p

Tinkeringbell

end of story

@JourneymanGeek mom took me to the newborn ward to watch newborns

Journeyman Geek

So you became a software engineer, where the pile of cr... is only metaphorical? ;p

2

πάντα ῥεῖ

9:38 AM

The </story> tag was a nice idea tho

Tinkeringbell

@JourneymanGeek LOL :)

That's a nice way of putting it

Journeyman Geek

@Tinkeringbell well, I find the reactions to those vary

I do find small humans are best a little less small

Tinkeringbell

@πάνταῥεῖ yeah, but shouldn't it have been story/>?

πάντα ῥεῖ

For XML it depends

Tinkeringbell

@JourneymanGeek Heh, I know ;)

@πάνταῥεῖ Yeah, I'm not awake enough yet for XML. It's either </story> or story/>, but definitely not /story>

Journeyman Geek

9:40 AM

(though if things work out, I do want some non zero number of my own ;p)

Magisch

@JourneymanGeek You could come to germany

:D

Journeyman Geek

@Magisch oh, to sort out, maybe push through the matchmaking thing

I'm immensely frustrated with how it going

Magisch

:/

Journeyman Geek

But that's not really a conversation for here

Tinkeringbell

I'll be back soon, I've got to go pay attention for a while, bus is almost at it's stop

Journeyman Geek

9:42 AM

don't miss it!

rene

Or else she ends in the Ijsel ...

Somewhat

ice cream river???

rene

That will be if the bus missed its stop ...

@Somewhat Ha, pretty much ;)

Journeyman Geek

0_0

Tinkeringbell

@rene Maybe in the Maas or Waal, I'm in 's-Hertogenbosch now ;)

rene

9:55 AM

Oh, you're going for a Bosche Bol?

Somewhat

looks delicious...

Tinkeringbell

@rene No time was running out. I managed to grab lunch and the train though ;)

rene

That is a seriously missed opportunity

Enjoy your train ...

Tinkeringbell

I know, I've had a few before ;) but with all the chocolate and cinnamon cake from last night, I think I'll be fine

@rene I'm trying to ;)

Journeyman Geek

Those things look... rich

rene

9:58 AM

A bosche bol per day keeps the hunger away ...

Tinkeringbell

It definitely does!

Did anyone see the comedy wildlife photography finalists of this year yet?

rene

To cut the discussion short lets not get into what problems it might cause in the long run, if you not compensate for not being hungry ...

Journeyman Geek

@rene that looks like of those things that makes me feel full looking at it

And I probably can't even eat it ;p

Tinkeringbell

@JourneymanGeek Heh, I wish there was food that did that!

rene

@Tinkeringbell I think I saw some in the Volkskrant?

Tinkeringbell

10:06 AM

@rene A friend showed them to me yesterday. The lioness with a headache and the squirrel caught in the act are my favorites ;)

rene

the squirrel is awesome!

Journeyman Geek

@rene "volkrant" sounds... like a place for people to rant

rene

@JourneymanGeek hmm, no. It is a newspaper in the Netherlands. volkskrant.nl

Maybe translate as "The People's Newspaper" ? ("De Volks Krant")

Journeyman Geek

ahh

"De Volks Rant"

rene

For lots of ranting I suggest De Telegraaf. That ends the political broadcast for today ...

Journeyman Geek

10:16 AM

ahh

Tinkeringbell

And if you're really bored, read the Reformatorisch Dagblad ;)

rene

@Tinkeringbell that is a safe option, yes.

Tinkeringbell

@rene I usually stick to nu.nl

rene

delv-pls 20K python meta.stackexchange.com/q/315487/158100 /cc @JourneymanGeek @Bart @ShadowtheWelcomingWizard

Journeyman Geek

needs one more ;)

rene

10:21 AM

@Tinkeringbell I got a bit fed up with the ads so if I want to follow a developing story I keep a tab open on NOS.nl. I guess it shows my age.

Tinkeringbell

@rene I have an adblocker running ;) and the app doesn't have much obnoxious ads, they're just at the bottom of a story where no one even notices them ;)

rene

App ... yes ... shows my age .. I still have a phone that doesn't run apps from Google or Apple.

Journeyman Geek

0_0

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

@rene What phone is that?

rene

Nokia N900 with Maemo as OS

Journeyman Geek

10:27 AM

ah

Tinkeringbell

@rene Hmm. Age is a funny thing ;)

Journeyman Geek

at least its a classic ;)

rene

it is

It starts to having problems with its battery so I might have to find a replacement either for the battery or the phone

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

I still occasionally use my original 2012 Microsoft Surface, and it also doesn't run any Google or Apple apps

@rene Shouldn't be that hard to find a replacement battery. I found one for my Nexus 6P for just $15, and it came with complimentary tools.

rene

sure

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

10:31 AM

The replacement process involved using a heat gun to heat the glue in the phone. I just used a hair dryer and it worked fine.

@rene Once you get the battery replaced, only charge your phone to 90%. This will double the battery's service life.

I always keep all my older computers, as I on occasion find a need for a specific computer out of the dozen or so laying about my house.

Magisch

11:13 AM

I have to buy a new battery for my S5 soon, doesn't even last a whole day no more

Tinkeringbell

Mine is still fine ;) 3,5 hours of Spotify and chatting and I was only at 46 percent yesterday.

That 46 percent then lasted another three hours while I was playing a game :)

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

11:37 AM

@Tinkeringbell What do you normally charge your phone to? 100%?

Journeyman Geek

Mine is tethered via USB to my laptop at work soooooo

Also it's a newish phone, had to upgrade earlier than planned

Tinkeringbell

@JourneymanGeek We have the same one, remember? ;)

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog Yes. Not going to wake up in the middle of the night to unplug.

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

@Tinkeringbell You don't have rapid charging?

I don't charge overnight. Instead, I just charge as needed. My phone charges rapidly with a 3-amp USB-C charger and can hold charge for a long time.

Tinkeringbell

Routines. I charge whatever needs to be charged the next day at night

Myself included

Magisch

I have a 50€ bargain basement S5 from several years ago

I might need to upgrade soon but i'm a lazy person so i never make time for it

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

11:55 AM

Why are such smartphones cheapest in the U.S.? I noticed that a similarly specced iPhone or Samsung Galaxy costs $100 more in India than here in the States.

That's after including state sales tax.

Magisch

< Not in the US :p

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

@Magisch Meaning?

Somewhat

He's in Germany

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

I wonder why consumer electronics cost more in Europe even after taking into account VAT.

For example, a GoPro Hero 5 cost $500 here, while in the UK it cost 500 GBP. At a time when 1 GBP = 1.4 USD, that's $700, and after removing 20% VAT it's $583.

delv-pls 20k+ meta.stackexchange.com/questions/315487/… (@JourneymanGeek @rene @Bart)

πάντα ῥεῖ

Every country has their own rules about VAT.

That's why tax free shopping is so popular if you're travelling.

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

12:07 PM

@πάνταῥεῖ Fact of the matter is, the companies charge (and make) more money per item in Europe than in the US. Compare any major consumer electronic's U.S. price with its Europe price with VAT factored out.

Magisch

I'd guess marketing

Same way companies go from 500$ to 500€ usually

round numbers appeal and the outrage isn't nearly enough to discourage it

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

I once joked that if you're in Europe and building a gaming computer, it would cost you less to fly to the U.S., buy your components, and carry them in your bags, than it would to buy them in Europe, due to discriminatory pricing. (i.e. after import duties, if needed)

@Magisch Yeah, factoring out 19% Germany VAT makes that $488 with today's exchange rate.

Magisch

It's also worth noting that that 500$ price tag in the US often doesn't include sales taxes

Since they're different percentage wise per state and sometimes per city even

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

vs. $540 in a jurisdiction with 8% sales tax

@Magisch Austin has a higher sales tax than most parts of Texas.

Right.

πάντα ῥεῖ

U.S. tax policies had been handed to the completely mad now anyways shrug.

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

12:13 PM

But here, I'm only comparing untaxed prices, i.e. the cut that the company actually makes.

That cut is usually higher in Europe than in the U.S.

Somewhat

Come to Indonesia. You can get GoPro Hero 6 for $462.

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

@Somewhat That price was from before the new model came out.

Besides, I don't need a GoPro. I bought a Sony Action Cam instead.

Better picture quality + more versatility for use for things other than an action camera (e.g. built-in tripod mount, microphone input, etc.)

Plus a handy little watch you can wear that displays the live feed from your camera.

Somewhat

ok ¯_(ツ)_/¯

Journeyman Geek

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog no need to ping - if I'm free I will notice the tag

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

I guess that's why Indians are so reluctant to upgrade their phone, which I've noticed on my trips to India, and why many newer phones are imports from the US. Using a purchasing power parity index exchange rate of 1 USD = 20 INR, you get that an iPhone 7 costing $450 in the States, costs the equivalent of $2,150 in India.

πάντα ῥεῖ

12:25 PM

When you take the average income in those countries into account, there's no fair comparison possible at all.

Somewhat

Also,

Consumer behaviour

Consumer behaviour is the study of individuals, groups, or organizations and all the activities associated with the purchase, use and disposal of goods and services, including the consumer's emotional, mental and behavioural responses that precede or follow these activities. Consumer behaviour emerged in the 1940s and 50s as a distinct sub-discipline in the marketing area.In order to succeed in today’s dynamic and rapidly evolving marketplace, marketers need to know everything about consumers - what they need, what they think, how they work, how they spend their money and time. They need to identify...

πάντα ῥεῖ

That's the mother of problems with global trade :3

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

But it's interesting to see purchasing power parities compared. It can be different across the Eurozone. For example, $1 USD = 0.83 EUR in Germany, 0.87 EUR in France, 0.89 EUR in the Netherlands, and 0.68 EUR in Greece.

Journeyman Geek

2:17 PM

cv-plz meta.stackexchange.com/q/315498/135565

Mithrandir

6:09 PM

→ 33 messages moved to Chimney

evening

Tinkeringbell

Good evening!

Mithrandir

9:12 PM

→ 8 messages moved to Chimney

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

9:24 PM

chaos-emerald-pls meta.stackexchange.com/questions/315393/… (@Shadow)

Mithrandir

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog Maybe we could use some more... accessible... terms?

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

@Mithrandir I considered that, actually. The thing is, I can't change the name of the type of request, or it would be confusing to those who've been receiving this type of request for many months now. I do, however, no longer use Sonic the Hedgehog references when referring to the things in general.

Mithrandir

I don't think it'd be that confusing to change it to [dupe-hammer].

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

9:42 PM

@Mithrandir Also, to search for all historical uses of this term, one would have to use different search keywords. Finally, the users who have explicitly consented to receiving pings with these requests all know what it means, and if anyone else asks me, it's fairly quick for me to explain.

Journeyman Geek

10:37 PM

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog two things - it has been requested many times and you always choose not to call it something standard

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

@JourneymanGeek If you've noticed my past messages here, I've always used the words "moderator powers" and "hammer" instead of "Master Emerald" and "Chaos Emerald" in regular speech.

Journeyman Geek

Secondly I think that the dupe close there is unhelpful - and ehhhh. If you want things dupehammered earn the badge

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

@JourneymanGeek Second, I've reduced the frequency of those requests - if you've noticed, before the suspension, I was just voting to close without posting a request here.

Journeyman Geek

Voting to close is a previlege you have earned

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