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01:00 - 14:0014:00 - 00:00

2:01 PM
@Derpy yup
@Derpy Or something like that chrome t-rex game for when the internet is down ;) A game you can only play when SE isn't available :P
@Magisch shoggifying the form data, of course.
@Tinkeringbell I have actually considered the idea of trying to make a Doom 2 mod that replaces DoomGuy face with shog one... ^_^'
@Derpy Hahaha fan-art? :P I never played Doom, so I don't really know what to expect :P
@Tinkeringbell funny fact: my kids brought my attention to that game, had no idea it exists. And they often ask to disable internet so they can play it... ;)
2:05 PM
@ShadowWizard Hahaha. I got pretty good at it during train rides with no internet
@Tinkeringbell badass guy shooting monsters.
@ShadowWizard Don't shoot shog.... that's not nice
@Tinkeringbell yeah... Think I reached 2000 or so, 2 full cycles. And probably it is really low. :)
@Tinkeringbell shog will be the beholder, the thoughest monster.. When killed it explodes as far as I remember. Kind of rage quit.... ;)
2:09 PM
@Tinkeringbell ^ you see the head in the center of the GUI? That is the protagonist face
image having shog in its place
@JourneymanGeek oh.. "Let off steam" then. Yeah, we all need it, and those working directly with other people and confronting others as part of their job need it much more.
@Derpy Why though :P
@ShadowWizard yup
SE is gamified, so Shog already has their own game!
another idea could be a JNat megaman game sprite hack.
2:14 PM
@Derpy oh thought you meant replacing this cute thing with Shog:
It is a floating head
With magic powers
that is a cyberpunk version of a beholder.
shog deserves protagonist role
I could probably code up a mod that added shog as a NPC in Minecraft. A villager that's as likely to teleport you 100 meters straight up (even into solid rock) as he is to offer a stack of diamonds for an apple.
@TimPost I always though shog was already in Minecraft, just being called Herobrine instead for legal reasons....
It would actually be kinda fun to make a SE mod for Minecraft. Tavern villagers just follow you around and occasionally write "that looks suboptimal" in chat when you're looking at anything resembling redstone.
PHP villagers appear whenever you open anything and close it immediately before punching you
Do we do that?
2:33 PM
in the meantime, I think this project I am working on will indeed yield me the "Never Again" quirk...
Insensitive behavior is not entirely the dominion of men. I think this question would be improved by removing the assumption that denigrating terminology that indicates the male gender is not offensive. It is offensive, as it discriminates against men.Aaron Hall 4 mins ago
@AaronHall some of the other comments 0_0
didn't read any
@TimPost real talk, would SE come after me if I made a minecraft SE mod and made it available on curse?
@Magisch with dogs? ;p
2:52 PM
I'm inclined to flag this:
in Discussion on question by Mari-Lou A: Is there a gender neutral equivalent of “manspreading”? on The Stack Exchange Network Chat, 6 hours ago, by Mari-Lou A
[cont'd] A word like the N-word is clearly racist, and calling someone "retarded" is highly offensive but even more so when the person being bullied has impaired intelligence development. But "manspreading" I believed was lighthearted, it doesn't insult all men, it doesn't insult someone's mental capacities, or their culture or the colour of their skin. I realize now, it is very insulting to rude and selfish men, and some men object to the term.
I think this is a troll.
@Magisch No.
Now I'm tempted
Tempted to install the IDE again and setup gradle
If I said "womanspreading", I'd be surely attacked for harrasing woman, right?
@AaronHall She's not... I think what she's trying to convey is that she always had the impression that this was light natured. The fact that they're asking for an alternative already shows they're taking this seriously...
I don't see anything in that question saying that manspreading should be okay to use, except that in the past the asker thought it was okay to use.
We'd probably endorse it, just be careful using any official logos (any representation of them in a 16 color game is going to probably be okay anyway). We've run unofficial SE servers attached to the minecraft talk room on gaming for years without a problem, so if you come up with anything, ping me :)
2:57 PM
The OP has some history of... disagreement on some SE sites, and a vocal one too...
@AaronHall It's a difficult topic to broach
so I might just move on
@Feeds censoring!!1!1oneone
3:22 PM
in Discussion on question by Mari-Lou A: Is there a gender neutral equivalent of “manspreading”? on The Stack Exchange Network Chat, 4 mins ago, by Tim Post
This too, shall pass :) Please don't feel as if you did anything wrong. I think we're going to need to feel uncomfortable about these discussions for a while longer, but that serves the purpose of eventually feeling comfortable about them.
@TimPost I'm gonna have to go ahead and disagree with you there, Tim. Gendered epithets are wrong, and you shouldn't tell users they can do it and they didn't do anything wrong.
@AaronHall Nah. It's better to make someone feel like crap for something they unknowingly did wrong and are trying to change now /s
@AaronHall I see absolutely nothing but benign intent there, tbh. The whole thing I was reacting to was about a conversation about avoiding them. I wasn't reacting to the original use of it, I was reacting to everything that ensued after that.
This reads as bad faith to me:
43 mins ago, by Aaron Hall
in Discussion on question by Mari-Lou A: Is there a gender neutral equivalent of “manspreading”? on The Stack Exchange Network Chat, 6 hours ago, by Mari-Lou A
[cont'd] A word like the N-word is clearly racist, and calling someone "retarded" is highly offensive but even more so when the person being bullied has impaired intelligence development. But "manspreading" I believed was lighthearted, it doesn't insult all men, it doesn't insult someone's mental capacities, or their culture or the colour of their skin. I realize now, it is very insulting to rude and selfish men, and some men object to the term.
3:37 PM
That read as someone reacting a whole lot of bees coming out looking rather angry and grappling for some words after finding that quite surprising.
Of course I'm in no position to tell anyone how they should read that, interpretation is an individual thing, but I do have the experience of suddenly finding myself on the wrong side of a large group (it's the nature of my job), so I can recognize that pretty quickly where others might not.
3:53 PM
> I realize now, it is very insulting to rude and selfish men, and some men object to the term.
calling your critics "rude" and "selfish" doesn't indicate one is coming around.
As a male who rides the subway in NYC every day and who makes every effort not to invade the space of others or take up more space than necessary, and who finds his space invaded by insensitive people of both genders, I found this personally insulting and offensive.
@AaronHall I missed that. Well, I read it, but I read a word into it that wasn't there that caused me to miss the meaning. Moment
in Discussion on question by Mari-Lou A: Is there a gender neutral equivalent of “manspreading”? on The Stack Exchange Network Chat, 14 secs ago, by Tim Post
I would have noted that previously, but somehow, I didn't read or parse it properly while going through the transcripts.
I'm just gonna blame my semi-shiny new glasses for that one, not sure how that eluded me as I was going back through the transcript. Though, "back-chatting" is difficult even for those that have 20/20.
It's weird, my monitor goes from rectangle to trapezoid if I'm looking at the center of it while shaking my head .. this prescription is going to take some getting used to.
@TimPost I wonder what the reaction would have been if you'd seen a similarly insensitive comment mentioning women
there are some, sometimes. Usually the reaction is a chat flag
@Magisch Pretty evenly applied, if it's at all sexual or objectifying in nature it's a flag, otherwise I try to point out what's wrong with it.
4:19 PM
@TimPost /manlyflex?
@canon Is that like a bowflex only cheaper if you buy it during a late night informercial and believe them when they say YOU ONLY GET THIS DISCOUNT IF YOU CALL RIGHT NOW?
@TimPost No, it's a comical gesture in which one performs a ridiculous raised double bicep flex, in the style of Mr. Universe... or, you know... Geston... to convey one's undoubted manliness.
4:34 PM
I liked undertale
5:38 PM
So you see this puddle of clear liquid on the countertop and put your hand in it, not really thinking much, just .. you know .. it's a puddle of water on the counter. Then you look at the table and see a 4-year-old with an empty bottle of super glue.
Anyone that says working at home is boring and uneventful does not have young children.
in The Awkward Silence on The Stack Exchange Network Chat, Feb 3 at 17:25, by Shog9
I was actually supergluing my fingers, but I spilled some of the glue
I'm a fan of glitter everywhere because the 6 year old got crafty, but spilled it when they opened it on the other end of the house for some reason and ran back to the kitchen.
I superglued my hands to a keyfob in middle school
I had to take a history test with my hands glued to that thing. Mom was pissed
ahahaha. Did the teacher know?
@Andy Glitter, craft herpes.
5:49 PM
Yes it is. I haven't completely eliminated it from the house...I have a sister in law that slips it into gifts...but she's got a 1 year old, so revenge will come soon.
We got a resume once that someone took the time to cover in glitter so it shimmered.
Problem was, while in transit, the glitter fell off and collected in the bottom crease of the folded paper.
What'd you guys do to anger this person?
The resume was for engineering, so David Fullerton opened it, and glitter just poured out all over his keyboard.
We didn't hire the person, but the glitter had nothing to do with the decision.
I have to admit, when David told that story I was secretly envious of the person that thought of it, but equally glad to observe someone else fail before I did :)
As someone that didn't get glitter all over my keyboard, that's hilarious. From David's point of view though, it was probably better to just burn down the office and start over. That glitter would be everywhere forever.
Balloons. Balloons are a great way to clean glitter
6:03 PM
Static electricity ;)
Ah. That sounds like it just makes it airborne then
seems oddly coincidental that meta.stackexchange.com/questions/179223/… would get bumped to the front page, what criteria does community use to bump posts?
@Andy nah, it'll stick to the balloon
Lint rollers and tape works too
> Note that the posts eligible for bumping are those scoring >= 0 that have gone at least 30 days with no activity, have at least one non-deleted answer scoring 0 and none scoring more than that, and no accepted answer (also, they can't be deleted or closed). Source
6:26 PM
@KevinB oh, drama..
6:43 PM
Oooof. I should answer that.
Are you done with your tweets @TimPost ? :P
@NogShine I've barely tweeted today :P
hello my friend, @Shog9, Do you wanna answer this? :D meta.stackexchange.com/q/313274/357396
@TimPost That's a nice unicorn!. Tweet next photo while you are wearing that Unicorn and cat. Is it specifically designed or just a random selection?
@TimPost I was expecting some more as you do a series of tweets.
6:59 PM
@NogShine off-the-rack from the store, and on sale, too!
in lava ... temperature match
Now I need a dictionary from Tim-postian to my English :D
@NogShine Such a thing could grant one an enormous amount of power, be very careful
@TimPost What do you think about my Developer Survey question suggestion? Apparently it's extremely controversial. Are downvoted suggestions also considered?
@gparyani, I hadn't, but reviewing that does not change my interpretation of the chat. Which includes, of course, absence of any response on the order of "OMG, I didn't think you were suggesting something like that." — John Bollinger Jul 9 at 21:03
Lest "I was told to post here by Tim Post" be misinterpreted, Tim's recommendation appears to have been a response to "I have a suggestion for the upcoming Developer Survey [period]." No endorsement, nor indeed review of any kind, of the actual suggestion should be inferred on Tim's part. — John Bollinger Jul 9 at 20:56
7:15 PM
@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog Yes. We listen to users in a lot of places, meta is one of them. But meta represents around .. 2500 active users at any given time, they just happen to usually be our most engaged and frequent users and folks that give us a lot of their time. So while we take any feedback from meta weighted heavily (in proportion, there are millions of users on our sites), we also conduct research by actively looking for people who would rather talk to us privately, because meta seems intimidating
@TimPost Nice, but what do you think about the suggestion itself?
Meta is only intimidating when you are providing your opinion.
> So, as long as you're reviewing based only on content, it doesn't matter who the person is.
I honestly don't think it's a bad idea to occasionally ask "What are we doing here, what's our purpose [in 2018]?" We solved the hyphen-site problem, we solved the forums-stink-at-knowledge-sharing problem, what's our new thing, or do we agree that we're in maintenance mode?
This logic may work fine internally, but the rules are that you can't do something with a second account that you can't do with one, and if we have reason to believe you are, you'll face consequences.
7:19 PM
@Andy nope. Even valid bug reports are downvoted when folk think the bug is too minor. Discussion is downvoted when someone disagree with some idea behind it. That's how it is, but many find it indeed intimidating as @TimPost says.
@Andy Ideally it would be resolved by having a separate set of "agreement/disagreement" votes that wouldn't affect viewing in any way, while relegating the current voting to just quality, as it is on main Q&A sites. This is especially helpful on MSE, on which one can lose rep just for disagreeing with the community, even if it's in a well-written post.
Sorry, the sarcasm bit must have gotten lost.
Lost along with Tim's keys...
He needs those on a lanyard at this point.
@ShadowWizard It's highly doubtful that the same set of circumstances would happen 17 times in a row. "Tim Post lost his keys" is only useful in explaining the odd drive-by downvote, not an overall pattern of downvotes.
7:21 PM
It might be better to make the answer free-form (thankfully we have data scientists now that help us parse that stuff) but I don't think it's an inappropriate or wasteful question.
@AaronHall who mentioned second account? The question is about different people who happen to be family and live together, sharing the same computer and IP. But actually different people.
@TimPost What do you think about the suggestion in the top-voted answer?
@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog Tim Post keys became a meme... it overflowed.
@ShadowWizard I suppose the point to quibble on is that it does matter who, it can't be yourself.
@AaronHall Well, yeah, that's clearly abuse. I'm answering in the context of the question, which is "do I need to recuse myself" essentially (which would be way overthinking it).
7:23 PM
Also, it's possible for one of my family members (for instance) to become an employee. What's to happen in that case?
@AaronHall that's kind of trivial, yeah.
ok, carry on.
@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog nothing? What you think should happen?
@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog I don't think they're mutually exclusive. Where we are and where someone would like to see us arrive can and probably would be two different things in many cases.
Anyway, it's not an uninteresting question, I think you found the root of something we should be asking annually, it's just the wording and the format that might need some thinking. Survey questions are hard.
@JourneymanGeek I've got to get me some vorlon coffee maker
(mobile version. Cannot reply. Been offline due to bereavement)
7:26 PM
@TimPost Yeah, I agree. Can you please answer the MSO question with that?
It's really difficult to consistently write questions with multiple choice answers that don't introduce bias in answering.
@Fabby You can reply in the mobile version. You just have to scroll a little after selecting a message due to a known bug.
@TimPost Yeah, the way the "equally" choice is worded sort of introduces bias towards it.
Perhaps I was too verbose (hah, Java guy) in answering meta question when Tim could do it in a paragraph...
@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog I will on Monday when I have time to put some thought into it, because you did touch on the root of something we should probably be including, so I need to talk to the survey folks prior to writing something up and putting a status tag on it.
I've left the tab open with an annotation to answer it
@TimPost Thank you very much!
7:29 PM
@Fabby you can but it's not elegant. You can copy the message permalink, paste, leave only the ID and add ":" before of the ID. e.g. :7133872 this is a reply.
^^^ great way to avoid closing tabs I meant to finish something with prior
IMO the lack of reply option from transcript is the worst thing in mobile chat.
always triggers that "are you sure?" dialog :)
@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog not relevant if there are hundreds of messages in between.
7:33 PM
and writing a meta post at 2am is not recommended...
that said, time to sleep! 💤
@Fabby Condolences and its fine, I remember
@SomewhatMemorableName I've been tempted to do that a few times
yoke and lash, yadda-yadda
@canon Now you just doubled it.
wtb recursion... pings all the way down
8:23 PM
@TimPost I like the work being done by DAG as far as what's next. I don't think that improving the ask question feature is "maintenance" so there is certainly forward moving progress going on. I think that one area which has classically been neglected on the exchange is the tag "info" section. That section could probably benefit from more exposure, and perhaps even a small inclusion of features from the documentation project with regards to examples.
I like the initiative... I've just felt like we've been left out of the conversation in some cases.
even though we haven't been
@TravisJ wouldn't that be better (eventually) as a meta post?
Related and resolved discussion about it:
Q: What are tag wikis for?

EeveeWait, wait, hear me out. I was looking at subprocess earlier today. Its tag wiki reads, in its entirety: The subprocess module includes replacements for functions such as os.popen*, os.spawn*, os.system, popen2.*, and commands.*. This raises more questions than it answers, so I took a cra...

Will the Tavern be empty this time during the Happy Hour?
Happy Lonely Hour
Anyone who is happy, raise your hand!
8:39 PM
@rene how come there isn't SEDE room on SE chat?
There is!

 SEDE - Stack Exchange Data Explorer

Discussion related to the usage of Stack Exchange's Data Explorer
@ShadowWizard see the initial messages in that room
So why duplicate it here?
@rene which room? On SE or MSE?
in SEDE - Stack Exchange Data Explorer on The Stack Exchange Network Chat, Mar 11 '14 at 15:06, by rolfl
Hi and welcome to discussions about the Stack Exchange Data Explorer chat room.
@JourneymanGeek I have barked up the meta tree on that issue plenty of times.
@ShadowWizard mse
I don't know the back story, I was pinged and invited as RO
8:42 PM
@rene oh. Well, major downside having it here is it requires 20 net MSE rep for people to take part.
Not trivial to get.
Now I feel important responsible ....
@ShadowWizard having it in and out of the fridge isn't working either
And I think most SEDE questions are still on MSE
As for any room. it needs a crowd to keep it going
@rene true
@rene or a Kenny
can I log into data explorer using facebook yet?
it's been like (6-8 weeks™)*30 or so
8:46 PM
@canon nope
is there a FR for that?
Q: No Facebook log in for StackExchange Data Explorer

David RobinsonStackExchange Data Explorer allows login with about a dozen open IDs, but, unlike every other Stack Exchange site (in my understanding), Facebook isn't offered as one of the options. Is there a reason for this?

/cc @rene ^
@canon since when?
Was it ever planned?
oh, you mean this?
> I'll put it on my to-do list and see what I can do about getting it taken care of.
@TimStone any update on that? ^
nope, it just needs someone to work on it
@ShadowWizard no, I was just joking about the lack of parity with the main site since 20-goddamned-12.
@canon oh
anonymous queries ftw
8:50 PM
I'm holding back on any changes in that area as the removal of OpenId does have impact on SEDE and I saw Nick mention he wanted to bring SEDE under universal login as well.
@TravisJ plenty? So you hide them very well. I can see only one single question from you about it, over four years ago:
Q: Improving the tag wiki user experience by standardizing the naming convention

Travis JTag wikis are important Tag wikis are awesome, and I like their format. However, I think it can be counter-intuitive for users to get there. Often there is a vast amount of useful information in the tag wikis when they cover large topics. Looking at the tags sorted by popularity and clicking th...

Oh, a question from that TravisJ type again ....
he does that every 4 years ...
Like world cup!
Travis Cup?
hmm.. weird.. How @Pseudohuman avatar is shown, with only 1 rep? Bug? Hacked? @JennaSloan
9:05 PM
@ShadowWizard Hm, I thought it had been more. Maybe it is just because it bothers me how hidden the info is all the time I thought I had written more on it.
9:16 PM
@ShadowWizard maybe it's different on meta?
@ShadowWizard I asked Shog about this before, and he refused to answer.
You answered your own question:
Mar 11 at 12:53, by Shadow Wizard
And the avatar was anonymous until it got that write access, I'm sure of that since Pseudohuman lurked a lot in the Den.
@Pseudohuman What is 2+1?
It has explicit write access in a different room though
@JennaSloan That it has explicit write access in at least one room may make its avatar visible throughout the entire server
@SmokeDetector k
9:35 PM
@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog huh! running full memory scan
@JennaSloan nope, <20 rep users get the gray avatar here as well.
@TravisJ maybe it got downvoted and auto nuked, but I doubt it. Run this search and you'll see for certain.
@ShadowWizard Sorry. Lunar eclipse was fun though :)
@ShadowWizard Nope, nothing in there except like 20 answers or so deleted as a result of the posts being removed.
10:12 PM
@SmokeDetector k
10:44 PM
@Tinkeringbell yeah, took a glimpse too. :)
@TravisJ oh. So, time for new question?
I got pictures. Remind me to upload them tomorrow ;)
11:01 PM
@ShadowWizard Perhaps. I get the feeling like tag wikis aren't exactly a priority at the moment though, and from previous interactions (in chat? somewhere) it seemed there wasn't much intention to change them. I know I talked about it during documentation, but perhaps not in a question format.
I am excited about the ask a question stuff, so for now just kinda waiting to see how that plays out.
11:48 PM
@SmokeDetector k
@Tinkeringbell sure!
@πάνταῥεῖ m
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