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8:08 PM
@Andy I did flag, but as you are probably aware, moderators don't see flags to migrate (or close) questions.
 
They why are you pinging a mod if you flagged it?
Also, I see plenty of flags to migrate
 
@Andy Those are all custom flags.
Recommend closure flags head to the CV queue instead of the mod queue.
 
Yup. Which means the community is handling the other migrations just fine.
So again, no need to flag a mod here if you have already flagged it.
 
8:17 PM
Thanks a lot. I wouldn't have been able to calculate that from mph to kmph!
 
(For the benefit of those unwilling/unable to pull out a calculator and look up the conversion factor)
@πάνταῥεῖ How rude.
 
Only if you assume he was being sarcastic.
 
For those unwilling to get sarcasm right :P
 
Maybe I may have said sometime ago that I'm not quite compatible with sarcasm.
 
@Catija Of course I was :P
@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog Learn that, it's an essential skill to survive!
 
8:20 PM
And maybe someone who's reading this chat transcript later doesn't get it either.
@πάνταῥεῖ I...haven't exactly needed it in real life
Just on the Internet
 
@πάνταῥεῖ I feel like you're being somewhat antagonistic towards Sonic and I'd really appreciate it if you could make an attempt not to be. It seems to be making him uncomfortable enough to mute you from time to time...
 
erm morning
@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog what I say about proper channels goes doubly for SU moderation tasks
 
Every time I ping someone, it sometimes triggers consternation from other users. Why not just let the pinger and pingee deal with it themselves, instead of making comments that might not even be true? (cc @Andy)
 
@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog but you pinged me.
 
@JourneymanGeek Yes, you are the pingee.
 
8:25 PM
and more or less, people feel said tendancy to ping instead of going through proper channels is a problem
 
In this case his comment happened to be true, but in the case of me vs. Shog a long time back, it wasn't quite.
 
i mean... it just irritates me. because it must be irritating to the pingee, and feels like you're trying to get your own content more attention than everyone else's.
 
@Catija He's going to mute me all the time, just getting agnostic of my warm and helpful advise. Just speeding over without further thought ...
 
@πάνταῥεῖ That's not how this works. This is chat. Being intentionally annoying to someone because you know they're muting you doesn't make for a very welcoming environment. I don't like to see it and I'm asking you to stop.
3
 
I'll stop that anyhow.
 
8:29 PM
Maybe that's a silly question, but I had that wish and so stumbled upon this feature request. I noticed that AdamLear wrote a comment and other people pinged AnnaLear - so, am I correct in assuming they are the same person?
 
@AnneDaunted erm. Yes
 
@AnneDaunted Old username.
 
@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog bunch of the folks in here are mods around the network and know what they're talking about, more or less. paying a bit of attention and internalizing a bit would probably be helpful to you.
 
Thanks! That was quick.
 
its an older question and his username changed for vaguely obvious reasons.
 
8:29 PM
@Mithrandir TBH I hadn't considered that.
 
Argh, point 2 of my anti-civility rant at meta.stackexchange.com/a/311769/200582 was a misquote of what the OP actually said (and completely changed the meaning) and I've only just noticed :(
 
comments don't reflect that
 
Actually, his name was actually Adam Lear all along. Anna and Lear were just the names of his cats.
 
Wish somebody had called me on that one earlier. Need to review the entire post now and see whether what I'm saying makes sense in light of the discrepancy.
 
@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog well, a lot of the time you tend to ignore, or try to pick and choose away anything that dosen't work for you.
 
8:32 PM
@JourneymanGeek But a very important one, in my opinion (question, not name change)
 
@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog That's not correct... those aren't his cats names.
 
@Catija Just a joke, based on a joke someone told me a while back (it may have been deleted).
 
@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog People are trying to give you advice to help you on the network. Can you please at least try to take some of the advice and put it in practice? You'll tick less people off and probably get along better with some of the people here. People are trying to help you; let them and don't just hear what you want to hear.
 
It seems I was blocked for a short time here. If we can't even discuss in chat, what's the point of talking peer to peer at all?
 
The advice to me above also sort of applies to you.
 
8:35 PM
@πάνταῥεῖ Discussion is fine. When that discussion becomes toxic or unconstructive... that's less fine.
 
@GntherMakulik @davidheff @StackOverflow Well, situation has reached new levels of absurdity as you can get flagged even for saying "Please" https://meta.stackoverflow.com/q/368072/4267244
 
@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog see? that's one reason people get annoyed
none of this ever seems to get through
 
@Mithrandir I am not "toxic", but just reminding some things that were said many times before.
If the user isn't able to remember, that's a special course.
 
"Please don't do this" never actually has an effect - you always go "but bar dosen't mind" or give some other excuse and keep doing it.
The reason people get annoyed at the pings is the same - you're constantly trying to push relatively minor tasks to the front of the queue, so to speak, cause you feel they are important.
On a 'normal' day FWIW I'd be asleep at this time. Working nights this week
 
What if it is important?
 
8:47 PM
doubly important it goes through normal channels
Now if its important and actually urgent...
it still goes through normal channels... then we see if we can grab a cm
like iDK
user is credibly suicidal in chat
 
It seems pointless to flag these, if the mean response time is 6-8 weeks
 
For possible suicide cases, I believe it's rather faster.
 
OK, what's the mean time to read?
 
8:50 PM
Also... a mod can technically point the user to the same place that SE does, if they're up to it. (see here if you're a mod)
 
@πάνταῥεῖ [tag:Why-We-Can't-Have-Nice-Things]
 
status-fail
 
yeah I know
still true
 
the point being though, in general, we really do prefer folks to actually go through proper processes, and not use pings as a way to try to speed things up
 
paper trails are important
 
8:52 PM
I apparently dozed off and another mod handled it lol
 
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Username similar to website in answer: How kerberos authentication works? by Ahmer Mansoor on serverfault.com
 
@Catija if you're not already completely sick of the conversation, I'd be interested in your thoughts on my last two comments at meta.stackexchange.com/questions/311737/…
I remain basically completely confused about what anyone is actually advocating for
 
Couple quick notes:
 
@MarkAmery "This code doesn't even compile" in no way relates to the comment examples I use.
 
meta notes, as it were:
 
8:54 PM
Is pulling out BBQ allowed while we're waiting for the firemen?
 
@Catija in what way do they differ? You think the "even" makes it hostile, like some of the commenters there did?
 
@MarkAmery somewhat affects the tone I guess
 
1) @SonictheInclusiveHedgehog: part of being a part of a society is deference to the concerns of others. You got folks offering you advice; you're under no compulsion to follow that advice, but recognizing that they're trying to help you, out of the goodness of their hearts as it were, is expected. At least try to understand where the concern arises instead of asserting that you'll do what you want because you can; no one disputes that.
 
presumably if it worked, there wouldn't be a question about it XD
 
2) @πάνταῥεῖ stop engaging with Sonic, please. It's offputting to a few others in this room.
 
8:57 PM
@JourneymanGeek it conceivably affects the tone, but I'm unsure how to convey the same information with a softer tone
 
@MarkAmery hmm. Presumably if you tried to compile it, actually talking about the errors
 
@MarkAmery Pointing out that it doesn't compile on its own isn't very useful... Make an additional suggestion... "this code doesn't compile when I try to run it, could you try again and note what errors you're getting". (admittedly, I'm in no way a software engineer, so I'm not even sure this makes sense... but I think it might?)
 
@MarkAmery What about "I tried it but the code doesn't compile"
 
It does make it fall into what we jokingly call "reading error messages as a service"
assuming its not just one of those code dump questions.
What's that quote. "What a strange game - the only way to win is not to play"
 
@JourneymanGeek some of us have absolutely no idea what these errors that things throw in our faces could possibly mean. Like this wall of text
 
9:00 PM
@MarkAmery on an answer...
 
"The only polite way to comment is to refrain from commenting"
 
"Hey, I tried to run the code you provided and it seems to not compile - I'm getting $errors. Could you take a look again?"
@JohnDvorak in a sense, this is often true
 
@Catija I'd only comment on a question to point out that the code doesn't compile if the question were about some runtime behaviour of the code (i.e. in a case where the asker clearly has compiling code, but has broken it in the process of trying to turn it into an MCVE). Maybe that implied scenario wasn't obvious in my post. But in any case, in that scenario, it wouldn't make sense to ask the OP to show their compilation errors; what they need to do is fix them so that they have a real MCVE
 
Can I have your compiler? Mine barks at me...
 
... then unexplained downvotes are a necessary side effect.
 
9:02 PM
This is why I was focusing so much in my comments on that black and white view of things... I don't think Tim or any of the CMs thinks that it's possible to make every single comment accepted by every single person on the network... but we can do a heck of a lot better than we already are. Comments are easy and off-handed... and they really need to be thought through a bit more by everyone. I've posted my fair share of bad comments enough to know that I can be better myself...
 
@MarkAmery contrast "Your code dosen't even compile" vs "The code here dosen't compile - I seem to get $errors in $environment"
 
So thinking through what I'm saying first at the very least makes it less likely that someone will find what I say to be offputting. And when I err, I ask for clarification and apologize and explain more thoroughly rather than getting defensive and rude.
 
@JourneymanGeek disagree that that change is an improvement (usually). In the typical case where I know enough to see that the code won't compile anywhere and that the asker has just screwed up, it's more helpful to just tell them that the code doesn't compile. Mentioning my environment and letting them suspect that really it's my fault doesn't help them if I'm sure that's not the case.
 
No one is asking for us to be saints... but I'm really tired of the "this is too hard, it's not even worth trying" arguments... and the "this is human nature, get over it" arguments... and the "people need thicker skin, they're living in the real world now"... ... that one's the worst... It implies we have no regard for kindness any more and we'd prefer to be rude.
 
@MarkAmery in that case if you can see it dosen't compile, saying why would help
 
9:06 PM
@MarkAmery So ask them what environment they're using rather than telling them what you use.
 
@Catija You seem more like a programmer than you claim to be :)
 
There's... very little specific to programming about this
 
@Catija there's a distinction between "this is too hard, it's not even worth trying" and "there are two groups of users with diametrically opposite standards of civility, and managing to force through your changes to achieve a tone that one of those groups prefers will increase how regularly the latter feels insulted, and you haven't even tried yet to judge how many are in each group or whether your proposals will drive people away on net"
I'm arguing the latter, not the former
 
In general, that is
 
@MarkAmery amusingly I take the opposite view at this point, simply cause everyone's taking the touchy feely approach
that unless something actively helps a post get better... its noise.
 
9:09 PM
By the way, any potential baby names for Bennett's brother?
 
@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog dude, boundaries.
if @Catija wants our opinions, she'll ask.
Its not your place
 
@JourneymanGeek She's usually fine with such questions (if you noticed, I don't ever get too personal). If she disagrees with it, let her.
 
I guess "Sonic" is not high on the list anyway
 
Of course, only a video game company would come up with that name.
 
@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog see - this is an example of where someone asks you not to do something, yet you do it anyway, and make excuses.
 
9:11 PM
I think there's also a distinction between "this is human nature, get over it" and "people from different cultures or with a poor grasp of English are not going to be able to grasp these standards - indeed, I barely can - and we shouldn't just torch their contributions when they don't manage to meet some nebulous linguistic standards"
 
@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog or a british TV producer
 
@MarkAmery that's probably kinda true.
@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog sometimes other people might be uncomfortable with you crossing someone's boundaries.
Sometimes they're either too polite or annoyed to tell you so.
 
@MarkAmery So... tell me... Why do people being snarky and condescending deserve the acceptance as status quo? The network wants to be more welcoming because the first goal of SE is to make the internet a better place. Condescension and snark and rudeness do the opposite.
 
@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog nope. What did I JUST SAY?
 
9:14 PM
For decades, Al Jaffee did a series of cartoons for Mad Magazine under the heading, "Snappy Answers to Stupid Questions"
 
@Catija "people being snarky and condescending deserve the acceptance as status quo" - I don't recognise this as equivalent to something I've said and I'm not sure where our wires are getting crossed
 
Did I just discover a security bug?
 
They're funny because... they're the sorts of things you really WANT to say to people. But, most of us don't. Because the stupid questions aren't intentionally stupid, or lazy, or born of bad intentions.
 
@Catija when I talk about different standards of politeness I mean that people interpret different tones as "condescension"
 
@Shog9 that's where filters come in ;)
@MarkAmery heh, my answer on that talks about that
 
9:15 PM
How was I able to post:
1 min ago, by Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog
@Shog9 Sorry.
while kicked?
 
probably because there's no check at the post message route
 
@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog was after a minute? Or you got around a suspension and we should suspend you further ;p
 
Apologizing to shog overrules everything else
 
at the point where someone's abusing that to get around a kick, the expedient solution is to just suspend
 
@JourneymanGeek My browser failed to reload when you kicked, and I'm guessing the restriction is client-side only, so...
 
9:17 PM
I didn't kick
 
I was unaware I was kicked until 39 seconds after the kick.
 
> I'd rather we just dropped this entire quest to improve comment civility, which I don't expect to achieve anything at all
^^^ From your own answer to Tim's question.
 
Granted It was tempting but Its 4am and I don't like the ideas of others being a victim of the lack of coffee at odd hours in this odd little corner of singapore.
*idea
 
@Catija that's not the same thing as arguing for the acceptance of condescension and snark. I'm meaning to attack this particular "quest" to improve comment civility - the one based on weird feminist stuff in which blunt technical prose makes you an "inhuman" "robot" and whose proponents are going around arguing things like that a comment is rude because it used the phrase "your code" instead of "the code" when pointing out something broken.
I've been critical of clear incivility in the past, and don't intend to stop; I just think the current project is nuts.
 
"weird feminist stuff"?
 
9:22 PM
@MarkAmery There's nothing in Tim's post about "weird feminist stuff".
> The first thing we should do is actually the first thing we shouldn't do, which is we shouldn't make even more people feel bad about a bunch of comments that we're pretty sure nobody intended to be toxic. This isn't a blame game, unless someone has a history of coming a bit unhinged, but we already deal with that as an exception.
 
@AnneDaunted see the original posts by April Wensel and Jay for context. This all started off with some notion about the tone of comments driving away women and "people of color".
 
@MarkAmery eh, I think its gone past that
and SE's actually had very similar initiatives in the past
 
You're falsely attributing this to the concerns of a few loud voices on Twitter... They may have made it really publicly visible but those aren't the reasons why this change is happening.
 
Joel Spolsky on July 20, 2012

It’s summer here at StackHQ. Have a flower!

You’re welcome. Now on to some serious work. Can we talk about cultural anthropology for a minute? I’d like to talk about what happens when a community (online or off) gets to be about… oh, three or four years old.

Every community starts out needing to recruit members, so they tend to be very friendly to newcomers.

After a few years, an insider group of old-timers forms. They get to know each other. They know the rules. They know the history and the legends of the community. And it’s only natural to get little bit irritated when newbies show up who don’t know the rules. …

while less... pointed, and specfic, this is .... kinda old?
 
@Catija Then what are? What are we actually ultimately trying to achieve, and why, and what are the sort of concrete changes in comment wording that the site thinks will have that effect?
This is what I'm still trying to piece together
 
9:26 PM
> But we have some of our own weird rules, that take a while to figure out. Rules about shopping questions, subjective questions, and “localized” questions. Those are very important rules, but when newbies violate them, we can be somewhat snarky. I did a quick survey and found that about 50% of questions that are closed on Stack Overflow are also accompanied by an unfriendly comment. So it isn’t surprising that newbies are turned off.
Circa 2012 ;)
 
We have basically no examples from the staff, as far as I recall
And the few examples produced by the supporters in the community are either 1. crazy stuff like "your code doesn't compile" being insulting but "the code doesn't compile" being okay
 
The concerns being voiced come from a wide variety of people. The point of Jay's blog post is that the rudeness is felt more by women and people of color because they regularly have to deal with it more in their real day-to-day lives. These people are fighting and struggling to have a place in tech and they're more likely to read tone in a negative way because that's how they deal with it daily and there's no tone on the internet.
 
or 2. comments like yours on my answer, where you seem to argue for exactly the same style of comments that I already use while simultaneously purporting to completely disagree with me about everything
and I just don't really get what anyone on your side is after
 
@MarkAmery hm
"Your side"
 
@MarkAmery The goal is simple. Make people feel more welcome when they ask questions or write answers. Avoid condescension because this site is here for people to learn and doesn't expect people to know everything when they get here.
 
9:29 PM
is there a "your side" and "my side" ?
 
@Catija as many people as possible, or specific demographics even if it's at the expense of the majority?
 
@MarkAmery well in theory, the majority really ought to be able to take care of itself
 
well, no, mostly just those who ask or answer questions.
considering they're the ones receiving comments
 
@MarkAmery Who is "the majority"?
 
@Catija I am!
:D ;-) :D
 
9:31 PM
@Catija What Don states is it :3
 
@Catija as far as I can tell from Meta, the majority people who prefer blunt, straightforward communication and find padding it with niceties condescending
 
@MarkAmery in theory, you do realise its potentially... not who you think it is ;p
 
I can pretty much bet you that the "majority" of users on SO (or even everywhere else on the network) are the low-rep new users who are just looking for an answer to their question.
 
@πάνταῥεῖ not sure that's helpful
 
9:32 PM
@Catija Starred!
 
@Catija or even folks without accounts looking for an answer
 
@πάνταῥεῖ A village in Tanzania?
 
@JourneymanGeek Yep. My husband is a dev and doesn't have an account ... he just browses for answers.
 
@MarkAmery communication can be blunt, straightforward and helpful
 
@Catija @Catija right, and what makes you think they prefer the niceties over straight-to-the-point technical commentary?
 
9:34 PM
@Fabby No, it's nigerian food :P
 
@MarkAmery No one is asking for you to pad your comments with niceties. We're asking people to stop implying "you idiot" every time they write a comment.
 
@MarkAmery I think the disconnect here is... in three different ways.
1) nice dosen't always mean padding
2) blunt can be useful.
 
@JourneymanGeek Tim's post explicitly calls for padding
 
3) sometimes comments add nothing and is bad
@MarkAmery Tim can be wrong ;)
 
"Lead by example by spending 50 - 100 more characters"
 
9:35 PM
Also, don't forget comments are transient, so... it probably dosen't matter.
 
point 3 seems orthogonal to tone
 
that noise is going away
 
and point 2 I agree with!
 
@MarkAmery once again, with my current approach/feeling here - a comment with good utility - trying to focus a user towards an answer can be blunt
 
@Catija I don't think I imply "you idiot" every time I write a comment in the first place
 
9:37 PM
but sometimes I pad it cause... it feels dumb to me...
until it isn''t
 
@MarkAmery Which is why I said "people" because I'm not accusing you... but there are people who I've seen specifically do that.
@MarkAmery This is like the example alternative I gave to your "this doesn't even compile" example... Ask for more info in addition to complaining about it.
 
and I can't bring myself to write that way sometimes XD
"Hey did you try the thing in manual page 23" or "you have an error message that says that your filename is wrong, try renaming it" are blunt.... and helpful...
but... that's ok
 
@Catija the info in that case wouldn't be useful. The comment about the code not compiling is useful only insofar as I'm telling the asker to go fix that so that they'll have an answerable question, which is why my proposed comment didn't solicit info.
 
on the other hand "did you try the manual" or "that error message is self explainatory" dosen't help
 
Unfortunately, the computer-illiterati that look at SO from outside cannot understand and/or appreciate how abysmally terribru some of the questions are. They can only understand the comments that appear unhelpful:(
 
9:40 PM
@Catija I can believe those people exist. But the staff aren't giving us examples and, as noted before, the examples that others have given are... more perplexing than enlightening
 
@MartinJames slightly controversial viewpoint...
comments are not that well thought out.
 
@MarkAmery Did you see the answer I wrote on MSO a few days ago about this specific topic?
 
nope
 
23
Q: Second guessing myself - too snarky?

Patrick ArtnerIn lieu of the coming Unwelcoming or snarky” comments classification app from Rolling out the welcome wagon and this users response here: How to store data in a list .. do I have to unsnark myself?

 
goes to profile-stalk Catija for it...
ah, thanks
 
9:42 PM
Particularly, read the comments on the question...
 
@Catija The question linked in that meta was rude and abusive in itself:(
 
@MartinJames That's beside the point. The OP of that MSO question didn't look at it that way, so it's irrelevant to the subject at hand.
But there's a reason my answer has a score of +81... because people agree with it... the people who actually show up on MSO to look at questions that aren't featured on Main... so, saying that the majority don't want less-snarky comments... just doesn't seem to be shown up in the limited data I have.
 
@Catija your answer there is interesting. I know I'd be far more likely to feel condescended to by your comment than Patrick's, but the votes are in your favour that time around.
 
Anyway... I have some actual work to do... since this isn't my job... :P
 
that seems justifiable :)
 
9:49 PM
@Catija The OP tried to get SO contributors to conspire to write a complete block of extra code in order to break the ToS of a site. I didn't think that describing 'i++ + ++i' as 'trash code' was rude and abusive. so can I have my 12-month suspension back?
 
thanks for the engagement thus far. maybe step by step the two sides will reach some kind of mutual comprehension, at least. We can hope, anyway.
 
Ohwait - I didn't mean I want another 12 months! :)
 
lol
THAT COULD BE ARRANGED!
(just kidding)
 
@JourneymanGeek I think I'll stop posting for today and just get drunk. Maybe safer that way, before I commit metasuicide.
 
or post drunk IDK
 
10:02 PM
I've come across another setback towards inclusivity: new users aren't told that editing an on-hold question will make it get considered for reopening.
 
Does it not suggest that they should edit to improve it?
is it just missing the "this puts it in the reopen queue" bit?
 
@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog Starred.
and with that I wish you all a good night!
 
I don't think it needs to be that verbose
 
The close notice says to edit. The tour says that questions are closed "until they are improved", but users often either forget about it or think that an edit won't get it attention.
You can't assume new users know exactly how the system works.
 
10:06 PM
you can't assume they can't infer reasoning either
 
There's a reason why the high-school teaching program at my school puts first-timers into a class of first-graders.
 
@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog how often do edits actually result in a question getting reopened? I recall the stat being something like 0.2% of the time
 
It's to teach the prospective teachers that they can't assume the students of their class have the same general knowledge.
 
I've at least never witnessed it happen in my personal experience on the site
 
@MarkAmery Evidence of your number there? Is it SO-only, or on all sites?
@MarkAmery It does happen quite a bit on MSE.
 
10:08 PM
Shog9 posted some stats once on MSO
don't recall the question title
 
will try to find
 
to me that reads like suggesting to put "click here" on all of the links
 
hmm, I think meta.stackoverflow.com/a/266844/1709587 is what I was remembering. My remembered numbers are way off.
 
@MarkAmery I will tell you about an issue related to that, however, on MSE. There's a user who goes around MSE and edits questions for grammar and spelling. However, by their edit, they deprive the post author of their chance to get their question reopened by editing.
The situation is in the update here: interpersonal.stackexchange.com/questions/14228/…
 
10:10 PM
seems more like a problem with the system that a problem with that user, tbh!
 
10:47 PM
Is being underage the issue here? meta.stackexchange.com/questions/311856/…
 
i find it odd that you'd ask that after stating it was
 
@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog No, it's not.
 
aww man
 
@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog Clearly Community doesn't like having its secrets given away.
 
10:53 PM
@Catija Roomba?
 
community has had it coming for a long time
 
> deleted by Community♦ 40 mins ago
... Like... literally, Community. Not R/A.
 
@Catija Not even a rationale for Roomba deletion?
@Shog9 Under what cases does Community delete a question without specifying a Roomba rationale, or also locking it as a spam or abusive post?
It wasn't deleted automatically as a negatively-scored post upon user deletion, because such posts aren't deleted on meta sites.
Was it deleted because the user was destroyed? In that case, why not have the moderator who destroys an account take credit for deletion, instead of Community?
 
@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog Because the moderator who destroys the account is never associated with deleting the posts... it's run by the system, not the mod.
 
11:06 PM
0
Q: Why was this question deleted by Community with no explanation or corresponding lock?

Sonic the Inclusive HedgehogThis question was deleted by the Community user. There is no supplied Roomba rationale, neither is there a corresponding lock at the same time (which would indicate a post deleted by spam or abuse flags). I then considered that maybe it was automatically deleted as a negatively-scored post at th...

 
Is there any indication that MSE counts as a "meta site" for the purpose of that? That said, the question had a score of +1, so it wouldn't have been automatically deleted for being negatively scoring anyway.
 
@Catija The entire purpose of that paragraph is to prevent dupe close votes from <10k-ers who think that it's the same problem.
0
A: What the Hell? Entire Account Deleted!

Shog9Creating accounts to circumvent suspension of previous accounts is not allowed. Use the contact link at the bottom of any page if you have questions.

 
Well, that's more of an answer than I was expecting.
 
@Shog9 Is there such a thing as a "clean start" here on SE?
 
Sure
But...
... you do have to actually start, y'know, clean
Not do the same stuff you got messaged about a dozen times already. For instance.
 
11:15 PM
On Wikipedia, if you are blocked (the equivalent of suspension), and you create a new account and make constructive contributions through it, they might let you by without lifting a finger. Even if someone knew it was you, they might turn a blind eye as per the official rule "if a rule prevents you from maintaining or improving Wikipedia, ignore it".
(Sorry, was typing, didn't notice your messages.)
@Shog9 Also, the question linked here in my post was posted by that user.
 
@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog yeah, I'm just gonna delete that question. This user has garnered enough attention already.
The reason is that destroying an account deletes everything
regardless of score.
 
" It would make more sense if the moderator who destroys the account takes credit for it."
 
oh yeah?
Given this is used almost exclusively for spammers and prolific trolls, I don't agree.
 
so that they can be personally attacked by a user that's clearly abusive
 
Since they technically asked for the deletion.
 
11:20 PM
Delete isn't destroy, @SonictheInclusiveHedgehog They're two different things.
 
It's like, they went through the user's posts and deleted all of them, before deleting the account. It makes sense.
@KevinB As their account is now deleted, they can't see the mod who deleted it. Not a concern.
 
there's ways around that, such as it being discussed here
 
@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog You're the one who always comes up with edge cases... what about a user with a high rep account and a sock... sock is destroyed... high rep account can see who destroyed their account because they have links to the deleted posts.
 
Speaking of which...have we had any moderators who were "moles" of any sort?
 
11:43 PM
@Shog9 Is the close vote here a careless use of that close reason?
 
@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog Seems more like status-completed?
 
@Catija Yep, the link below is the corresponding CV task if you want to review as Leave Open.
This answer reads kind of abusive and accusatory: meta.stackexchange.com/a/311843/377214
 
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