@Derpy that area is certainly the dark side of Anime.SE though...

@hey it's anime...

@hey and that's is why I'll probably continue avoiding it.

dark side? Or super bright and cheerful to the point of being creepy side?

@Shog9 forgive my ignorance, would it be expensive to implement opt-in notification options for actions like "OP edited on a question you voted on" or "x numbers of edits happened on a question you voted on"

@Magisch do we have any opt-in notifications?

There's the thing in chat that lets you determine how fast you get notifications after being pinged

yeah, but that doesn't let you opt in / out of a specific notification type; it just changes the rules for when chat generates them.

Other than locking the SO top bar are there any options at all?

and... I highly doubt most people even know about them

I'd really appreciate it though

the failure of feedback on your moderation actions is a personal motivation killer for me

which is my point: if this is the only opt-in notification, then most people aren't going to even think to look for the option. So most folks won't opt in. So it's not very different from not even having the option.

UX customization isn't really something SE has ever invested in.

doesn't need to be rep you get or even a badge, just a way to see the impact you have would go an infinitely long way

SE is so good at encouraging participation through small incentives yet moderation has absolutely none besides milestone badges

@Shog9 kawaii and kowai are two different things, not necessarily independent

@YvetteColomb For mods, the difference is useful... to me, anyway... the problem is that no one uses them the way they're intended... because it's really not clear how they're supposed to be used.

@Magisch a badge would actually not be a terrible way of helping folks to learn about it

@Mgetz yeah, let's not confuse scary and cute. ;)

@Shog9 "Take note" - Change your custom notification settings

Do that and roll out with 4-5 different granular settings for more notifications

@Magisch so, basically, spam everyone to ask them to opt in to more spam?

@Catija I'm now wondering how many people think Kawaii is scary

@Shog9 No I was suggesting a badge name and text

@Magisch or just view the page... some people may prefer the default settings.

@Mgetz intentional.

and yet I somehow remember that the issue the staff had with Taisho wasn't related to an increase of sugar overdose induced diabetes in the room users.

damn nature, you cute

@Magisch yeah, I meant a badge for the actual action: reviewing posts you'd downvoted which had later been edited.

@Derpy Ponies can have similar saccharine effects on occasion

This shouldn't have to be one of those frustrating adventure games where you have to collect a bunch of random trash at the start to get access to a locked room 10 hours later.

@YvetteColomb for users, they are... the LQP queue. But for mods you lose some information. We can see which flag was used and even that can be a hint.

@Magisch looks expensive...

@Shog9 Sure, would also be nice

@Mgetz maybe, but as already stated in the previous message, that wasn't exactly the problem the bot had.

It was just an observation

and one that doesn't apply to the current iteration as much

@YvetteColomb it takes getting used to. I've had it for a few months but was never used to the default on SO.

I think a vast part of the discontentment new users have comes from the fact that there is often no coming back from a botched first attempt the question stays closed and downvoted, no matter what

The people who originally gauged the context do not look again, and the reviewers only get a general picture

Votes are never reversed and the question stays downvoted

Getting enough people to look at and act on your best faith effort to improve is a struggle

double-struggle due to pile on effects

@YvetteColomb I'm pretty sure that there's a great explanation of why we don't use that wording somewhere... I'm not sure where, though.

@YvetteColomb building a house or feeding a horse?

Ok, before we rehash this old VLQ vs NAA thing again... They're not different flags because that has any real utility for mods or reviewers. Reviewers can't even tell which flag was raised.

@YvetteColomb it wasn't quite the same. The top bar is a bigger focus on SO and there is no site banner with links like "tags" and "users".

Flag types exist to reflect the mindset of the user wanting to raise a flag

Any discussion of changing flag types must keep that goal firmly in mind.

@Shog9 TLDR it's like the two 100 holes in skiball it doesn't matter which one you hit, they both go the same place

why?

@YvetteColomb yeah. Compare the MSO layout with the MSE one, for example.

I don't actually think we do

flags are reasonably clear

just that expectations on what is and isn't naa/vlq need to be clarified

@Magisch yes.

I almost never flag as VLQ though. Admittedly that doesn't make it useless because I don't use it...

@YvetteColomb first off, VLQ is also an option for questions

People think wrong answers are VLQ, too... that doesn't mean they're correct. :)

@Shog9 technically

Second, there are a decent number of answers that are clearly answers, and clearly crap

@hey if it's not utterly gibberish, I don't use VLQ.

@YvetteColomb and that gets into a whole pile of weirdness, because you can raise a VLQ flag long before you can downvote.

And a helpful VLQ flag imposes its own downvote

if it's a 5-chain Google Translate'd post, I'm still not sure it's VLQ

@YvetteColomb I mean... not really

it's not like there are 2-3 users who can raise flags but not downvote

there are at least 5

ok, 1.1 million. I was in the right ballpark

"World's largest ballpark - seats 1.1 million and 5!"

@YvetteColomb how many do you want to flag?

is this considered VLQ? (hypothetical text from real answer)

> By counting all this, Ren-chan's "Frog Song" is a singers of a Japanese singer with a single name and singularity.

NAA doesn't have that penalty... and I don't think it should. There's times when NAA answers are still honest attempts at... something... they just miss the point, or the goal posts get moved...

(Google Translated through 5 languages, back to English from)

> Considering all of these, Ren-chan's "Frog's Song" is either a parody of a famous Japanese nursery rhyme with the same name or otherwise just an original song.

@YvetteColomb 44K have raised at least one flag. Avg is slightly over 2 flags, but that's kinda meaningless. At that rep level, 1 flag is a huge win - just getting new folks to say something when they see a problem is a major challenge.

Which is why you want flags that reflect what folks see as problems

So to answer my own question... I want a lot more than 44K

@YvetteColomb to...?

how many of those one-flag wonders have a declined slapped against their face?

If they did, we didn't really teach them to express their concerns.

I don't think any of the flags come with the goal of editing... they're all pretty much requests for deletion or mod attention (r/a, custom).

@JohnDvorak not quite 18K

LQP queue has 'edit' as one of the options though

Folks have you considered: A/B testing... and getting actual data?

That's... a lot.

A/B testing is only useful when you know what you want

@YvetteColomb if the goal is editing, the flag would notify the user, not a queue of other people.

@Shog9 or you want to test an idea on a limited number of people

If you know what you want, why are you testing?

@Mgetz much more fun just brainstorming about it.

@Mgetz It's the UX equivalent of Knuth's "small efficiencies" - when you need it, great - but you usually are wasting your time

If editing is a simple solution, flagging is unnecessary.

@Catija I certainly remember a recent FR on this (ah, the 'obsolete comment' flags)

@rene Brainstorming is good but doesn't get anywhere if you don't actually test some of the hypotheses

@JohnDvorak same reason you dig out the profiler when you need to hand optimize some little routine that gets called a million times a second and you've already exhausted your options for not needing to call it a million times a second.

@YvetteColomb I'm pretty sure that very few people use those... I never do, personally, and I rarely see the canned comments on the sites I mod.

sigh

not quite 11K canned comments left from LQ review on SO in the past 30 days

It's sort of irrelevant, though... the flag (not the review) is what we're talking about.

Flags don't do that.

That's about 1% of all comments, but slightly over 10% of all LQ reviews and over 50% of all LQ tasks

You CANNOT eyeball this stuff on SO. Your eyes are too small of a sample to be relevant.

so AFAIR, a VLQ post got automatically downvoted because I edit it to make it better

@YvetteColomb 30 days

yeah, 1 million comments a month, give or take

BTW, this is relevant to the need for flag reasons that are accessible to folks who don't have a deep and broad knowledge of how the system works:

10% of all flags raised are from users with <1K rep

@YvetteColomb I started reading it yesterday

It's long

@Shog9 distribution of those flags? I mean types.

@Derpy post another question...

@Shog9 cough truncate table comments cough

Ideally one that doesn't try to ask 5 questions at once

I can always run a couple of queries before bed, but if I gotta figure out how to present 3 dimensions... I'm gonna go to sleep.

@Taryn Feels like cheating. I like it.

@Andy abusing all my powers

@Taryn DELETE FROM comments WHERE text NOT LIKE '%taryn is awesome%'

now that is abusing your powers :p

hi :)

So, from now on, I have to use [taryn is awesome] as punctuation in comments?

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword in title: Muscle testing pendulum by abe R on judaism.SE

@SmokeDetector wut

Good morning

@MartinJames can't hurt ...

@Shog9 oh, to be fair I hadn't realized that the data above was from a question you replied to. I had assumed those was some stat you just calculated because (whatever reason you had to) and was wondering if you had the numbers spitted by type. It is not like I actually wanted you to do more work. I just asked because I was wondering if those results could be somehow linked to all the flagging work folks do on site they normally don't follow - see SmokeDetector and such

I'm at a loss. I just opened my laptop, went to my app, and almost all the configuration option cards are missing from the page ._. no branch changes, no code changes since yesterday

What on earth

@YvetteColomb For foaling?

@SterlingArcher Sorry Europe use, you aren't supported anymore because GDPR

They are evolving, Now they auto "fix" the app you build too.

Huh?

@YvetteColomb Orite :(

Oh I'm stupid, and just laughed like Julia Roberts in pretty woman.

I altered my permissions testing, so I lost the view options

haha only in the morning..

some thunderstorm here ...

@rene It's gone quiet here. Rain stopped. If it's still OK in a half-hour I'll try to get the perpendicular pooch off the settee and out for a walk.

ugg why must my body overreact to trees so badly

Nature wants you to suffer for what you did?

@SterlingArcher existing?

Exactly

ohhi

It's like, allergic to oxygen?

are those Australian / New Zealand trees?

Pretty sure those are probably poisonous too.

@Derpy I'm in the US and no it's not the Death apple

72 Most Dangerous Animals: Australia is a great docu-series on netflix to watch (there's also one on Latin America)

sd tpu-

Wow I just got a completely random email from someone who claimed to have interviewed with my company and never had

aaand reported as phishing

sd fp-

@SterlingArcher I love the fact that Austrailia has so many dangerous animals, and the common feral housecat is pretty much a threat to all of them

I'm not sure if that's because cats are just that persistent, breed that fast, or just very cleaver at getting around those defenses

:6988697 why the removal? Your comment was fine.

Australia has the Gympy Gympy tree

which is a tree that wants you not dead but alive and suffering for years

@Magisch at least the death apple is very quickly painful

@Mgetz cats kill anything.

@JourneymanGeek They are however cute, which is why we don't mind the dead birds they leave on our pillows

@JourneymanGeek That looks like a maine coon... I'd be up a tree if it chased me too

@Mgetz Cute??

@πάνταῥεῖ occasionally cute and evil

So human like :3

sd tpu-

Tolerated once, second time is spamming

@πάνταῥεῖ what's up?

@Dannnno Loads of things it seems ;-)

Appreciate to see you.

sure thing

is there something you needed/I can help with?

"Narrow space" means to get "inclusion" correctly in comments.

I'm not sure I follow

People feel excluded for all kind of things and misconceptions.

makes sense

is there an alternative phrasing you would suggest?

Answers for off-topic questions are counter productive IMO.

@Dannnno Not really, I prefer to use site mechanics meanwhile.

Doing otherwise is why I was suspended from Stack Overflow probably :-P

meh. if a simple comment avoids a low quality question being re-asked and/or asked elsewhere, why not

@KevinB Because it will be misinterpreted in all kind of ways, and rejected as offensive.

There's really "narrow space" for comments nowadays.

so are you referring to my initial "Welcome to code review! ..." comments? or the "it looks like it was intended to be a comment" comment?

Better do not comment at all :-P

@Dannnno I didn't really want to say that your comment was bad. But just saying nothing would make an overall look better (maybe)

for example, in this case the user needs to be informed that instead of leaving a comment on the question, they should ask a new question on the appropriate site. the close reason isn't going to give that information

@KevinB it's actually the opposite in this case, they asked a new question that should have been a comment :) but they didn't have that information in the question originally, so it just looked like another "my code is broken so please fix it" question, for which I think the close reason provides enough context

eh, no, comments are for clarification, i didn't think the user was asking for clarification here

The OP already started with a misconception, that they can't post anything regarding their concerns below 50 rep. Teaching them to differentiate kinds of posts they could leave seems to be more helpful.

We need big and blatant banners for any sites established at the SE network.

sd naa-

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog so that you can view who contributed to them

@Shog9 There is a little bug: posts that were migrated from MSE back when it was called MSO still show "migrated from meta.stackoverflow.com" in their migration notices, and their links go to 404 errors on the new MSO. To view the migration stub's history on those posts, one must manually change the URL to meta.stackexchange.com.

There are quite a few of those on Meta Super user, most of which were migrated on July 22, 2010

hmm... yeah

@Shog9 Perhaps the best solution is to make links to anything /posts on MSO redirect to MSE if the post ID is less than 250000, which was done for question and answer URLs.

probably

//shrug

@πάνταῥεῖ Omega left a while ago

@Shog9 ^^

I know. There's... one little hitch

What?

deleted users aren't always named "userNNNN"

trying to determine how much - if at all - this is a problem

@Shog9 Oh, you mean old account deletions where usernames weren't changed to user codes

not JUST that

that's less of a problem, really

who needs to know, and why?

(although, potentially still a problem)

Why was it implemented this way in the first place?

:shrug:

:)

presumably cause it made sense when it was written ;)

and fixing it didn't make sense when it was changed

Expediency is always an option, too.

Something to remember about a lot of this stuff is that anonymous (later unregistered) posting was a big deal at the start: the idea that you could participate without creating an account was hugely appealing.

Was the concept of "anonymous" posting more like editing originally or was it similar to just being unregistered?

The way that's worked pretty much forever is that the system creates a user anyway the first time you post, and that holds any info you happen to provide... But in theory it could work without that: posting anonymously just creates a Post that holds what meager info you provide (name, maybe email).

Think... How posting anonymously works on most blogs

there's no "account"; folks just see your post, whatever name you provided with that post, and the admins can see your email.

to be clear, that's NOT actually supported

but... It could be

or rather, could have been

it ended up being kind of a bad idea for pretty much the same reason it's a bad idea on blog comments

Disgusting vitriolic comments?

and spam

mostly spam

Ah. Yeah. We still get that anyway.

Well, the spammers need to make a bit more of an effort?

cv-pls meta.stackexchange.com/questions/310734/…