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02:00 - 19:0019:00 - 00:00

7:00 PM
I've been noticing that meanwhile @Shadow
The apps (both iOS and android) were never meant to replace the site, only as "nice to have" bonus. That's what we should tell people.
But as you commented, the API isn't cast in concrete.
And that's also why they failed.
@πάνταῥεῖ oh, it is. Any change requires lots of time and efforts, and SE won't have time for it in the near, or far, future.
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Username similar to website in answer: Ubuntu Server 18.04/EFI/GPT/2x6TB/RAID1 by binaryrecon on askubuntu.com
Anyway since the apps are dead anyway, it's not really relevant. :)
7:03 PM
@smokey an innocent blog link, let's see if they'll get annoying with that.
@ShadowWizard Dead how?
@Mgetz Not being developed
@PrincessLuna then they should probably be pulled from the app store
They still work just fine.
I use mine daily.
@Mgetz I am with @JohnDvorak about this.
7:08 PM
@Mgetz not enough developers to pull them from the app store too since no one is on mobile teams
@hey I hate it when companies have zombie apps. Apps that desperately need maintenance for security etc and will never get it.
@Mgetz They might be later though. So they're not gonna pull it if it still works
@PrincessLuna Pulling doesn't mean deleting the source, it means preventing exposure of new users to potential vulnerabilities and other issues while the app isn't being developed
I guess we just have to sneakily break the apps then.
@JohnDvorak nah just wait for apple to update iOS
7:10 PM
@Mgetz If there's a vulnerability, most app stores block it.
it's already partially broken on iOS 11
... Which is why I still haven't updated. :/
@Mgetz Why did you send that if you hide the content?
@Catija which means that it is now exposing you to potential vulns on a larger scale!
there's no reported security issue up until now... only broken features
7:12 PM
@Mgetz You seriously have to be more "empathic" about such silly <strike>faults</strike> flaws.
@Mgetz maybe "dead" isn't accurate word. "Frozen" or "Stale" might be better words to use. They work, but they won't get any new features and bugs won't be fixed.
@πάνταῥεῖ not when it comes to security, I think that the law needs to be tightened up for exposing users through negligence
yeah... i hate not being able to fix said zombie apps... but, meh, $$
@πάνταῥεῖ ---faults---
@ShadowWizard unless they are receiving security updates I consider them zombies
7:14 PM
Well, maybe with Teams in open beta(?) Kasra and Brian will be able to go back to poke the apps a bit?
@Mgetz so zombies they are
@Catija lol no
They'll find something else to do.
@PrincessLuna Yeah, that's a bad word, that's why I tried to strikethrough :-/
Why not? They're hiring almost everywhere in the company right now...
Another markup flaw.
Tbh the apps look like cordova wrappers of the mobile website anyway, you could probably just update them to pin the website as an 'app' and then delete themselves
7:16 PM
@Catija well, if Teams will be a success, they'll need them all working on it anyway, it's huge.
I don't know what Cordova looks like but the Apps are a million times better than the mobile site, which I refuse to use.
Well, we have to wait for the news that Kasra and Brian get released from Team DAG...
If Teams will fail, well, they won't be able to pay many developers anymore.
Why wouldn't the apps be part of DAG's work?
@Catija then the mobile website should be fixed
7:17 PM
The mobile site is part of the responsive design upgrade. It's already being worked on.
Heck, I've seen it on SO since I'm on a Team. It is better... but a bit narrow for my taste, really pretty much requires landscape use.
Responsive design should replace the mobile site, no? That's it's true purpose, after all.
I think they're starting the rollout to SO and MSE next month.
There would be many improvements to do about the technical UX. But the sentiments shouldn't change IMO. These SE sites are about collecting quality, not for piling up crap.
> Responsive design pt4: We are continuing work on responsive with a goal to release to MSE for user feedback and testing this month (May).
not sure about SO?
> Working on scaling out our Teams changes to SO and the entire network. You likely won't see this until June or July.
One of the "Teams changes" is responsive design.
... or at least, that's how I understand it. I've had the left nav since I started using Teams back in... March, I think.
7:24 PM
Expecting many updates on this answer is probably a wishful thinking...
Oh, wait, that's about tags... stupid me.
Oh, wait, they use "previous month - this month" format, okay, fair point for one revision per month.
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Potentially bad keyword in answer, username similar to website in answer, blacklisted user: Question in reading the Quran and tajweed for beginner by quranteaching on islam.SE
@πάνταῥεῖ there is disclosure, so it's not spam by the SE definition
7:29 PM
User confirmed themselves.
Hmm, well ...
Last week of instruction really showing in questions list.
It's already late... and I closed this day after reading the "toppest" HNQ...
(ugh, it's already a wake-up time for those who are fasting...)
@ShadowWizard 1,956,945 users to be deleted (second result query)
it's kind of funny when she mentioned "rep < 2" but not "rep = 1"
perhaps they'll consider negative rep in the future :)
Maybe it's fractional... 1.5 rep.
7:38 PM
Maybe it was copy-pasted from code?
@Undo Are you still working on Stackboard?
Ha, ha, ha (ROTFL):
Dave, I've updated my privacy policy. Until you've accepted my new terms, I can't open the pod door.
7:54 PM
Interesting... staff without diamonds clearly have something special about their accounts because they can still use status tags :D
@hey and it shows that I stay close to the specs ...
@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog Not since a long time ago
@πάνταῥεῖ did you see the GDPR hall of shame I linked earlier?
Not yet. But I already need to dry my pants now ...
7:59 PM
Bladder issues ... you'll know when you get older ...
Apparently that tweet was that good in Panta's eyes
@Undo A bit awkward. Stay empathic with me plz.
I'm still curious what approach you use to dry your pants. I would just put them away and grab a fresh pair.
@JohnDvorak I at least picked that up from Grady Booch's retweets :-P
My bet is on a hairdryer ...
8:04 PM
@JohnDvorak Sure, and after I'm going to hang out the old pair to dry. No need to have them washed inbetween ;-)
@rene that's plausible
Well, I can sit that out until tomorrow :3
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Pattern-matching website in answer: Are "Dry humping" and "Molesting" the same thing? by Lizzy on law.SE
@Catija And yet they still have to suggest edits
@Undo Maybe it's time to renew development, since the official apps aren't being developed?
8:13 PM
@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog It's the API lacking the appropriate (necessary) features as it was mentioned before.
@Shog9 As a member of the Community Team, can you please tell us what the requirements are for an employee to get a moderator diamond on Meta? Anita Taylor says the Community Team has tightened these requirements.
Why don't you ask a question on MSE?
@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog well, I'll see if I can summarize...
In a lengthy, numbered list
please avoid interrupting while I type each item as a separate message
@Shog9 Please do so in an answer to a question I'm about to post
Considering the intro, I'm going to assume the list has one item.
... maybe two.
8:19 PM
... maybe three.
Item #1: must need to do moderatory-things on a given site
this concludes the list.
thank you for your patience
@Shog9 What's a "moderatory-thing" for the sake of this requirement?
something that requires moderator privileges
@Shog9 Anita Taylor has edited moderator-only tags, which "requires" moderator privileges
Like nuking a spam account?
8:22 PM
@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog Apparently, it doesn't... It seems that both staff and mods have those privileges.
(side note: why don't 1 rep users whose only post was confirmed spam get auto nuked)
@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog no it doesn't; it requires employee status
@Shog9 Then why not call them "employee-only tags"?
Well, mods can use them on their sites.
employees automatically get full edit rights on meta sites, complete with the ability to wield red tags.
8:22 PM
And why do employees have to suggest edits?
@Shog9 Anita had to suggest an edit to a question.
that sounds like a bug then
We had to approve suggested edits by Joe Friend before he got a diamond
we've kinda broken that particular feature, oh, dozens of times
Q: Broken "Edit email settings" link on the footer of Stack Overflow emails

Mike EzzatiAt footer of emails that I receive from Stack Overflow, there is a "Edit email settings" link that suppose to take me to edit email settings page. But it results in a custom 404 page. URL of link: https://email.stackoverflow.com/subscriptions/manage?id=XXX&auth=XXX

^^^ There if you want to test.
Unless MSE doesn't count as a "meta" site. :)
@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog I thought we organized a voting ring to get him to 2K ...
Really exhaustive list there
@Magisch Welcome back!
(he wasn't really gone)
8:26 PM
@Magisch How is it at your job meanwhile BTW? I hope you got into a better position since we've been talking about that times ago.
I changed jobs after finishing my apprenticeship
the new job isn't perfect either but it's an improvement
Got "volunteered" to be data protection officer D:
Cool thing.
Q: Unable to translate cookie notice

alexolutRecently I see the notice down the page about using cookies on this site: This site uses cookies to deliver our services and to show you relevant ads and job listings. By using our site, you acknowledge that you have read and understand our Cookie Policy, Privacy Policy, and our Terms of Serv...

I wonder why @alexolut isn't active on this chat room anymore
@Magisch Loads of fun with the GDSVO :-D
> Mostly active on Stack Overflow in Russian
8:28 PM
Found all the bugs, nothing more to report :D
oh, I see the problem. MSE isn't a child meta.
@Catija it kinda does, except when it doesn't
in this case, all the relevant checks are "IsChildMeta", so...
Well, I guess I was correct, then... sorta.
For example, this is the "has full edit rights" check: Current.Site.IsChildMeta && IsEmployee
While this is the "can use moderator tags" check: currentUser.IsModerator || (Current.Site.IsMetaSite && currentUser.IsEmployee)
MSE fails the first one, but passes the second... So you get this weird situation where employees have to suggest edits, but can push mod-only tags through
Ah. So can you change the has full edit rights one to match the tags one?
maybe? Depends on why it's like that
8:37 PM
@Magisch I've been attending a nice webinar last week about that topic, about what it means for the developers duties. As far as I can tell you, you're not in danger. Every developer has to take that burden in first place. Your job is simply to notice them appropriately.
I've been missing our product managers attending that event tough :-P ...
@Shog9 gonna guess "oversight". child metas have no suggested edits, so someone probably punched a hole through for employees without remembering MSE
seems likely
@Shog9 So the circumstance I mentioned before many times, where an employee started moderating a site in their spare time purely through their staff rights (not by getting elected or appointed beforehand) is less likely to happen now?
that rarely happens anyway
May 14 at 18:00, by Adam Lear
@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog Bret did some of that on Aviation, IIRC
8:47 PM
yeah, there are... maybe 3 instances I can think of off-hand?
I was curious about your message last night, @Shog9 ... The numbers were really surprising to me since I see so many users posting coding questions here that do have SO accounts with only one rep, so I've been assuming that a lot of them are q-banned on SO.
Enough to where we put together a guide for them, but not enough to where we built a process around it.
@TimPost Please make getting that survey going your next task once the GDPR stuff settles in
@Catija naw
folks just get lost
or they hit a rate-limit
sometimes both
IIRC many people follow a link to MSE and not realize they're on a different site. I hope this doesn't start happening more often once certain design elements become universal under Joe Friend's plan.
8:49 PM
Ah, that makes more sense. I have asked a couple of times and I thought that I'd been told that they were q-banned but I suppose I might have just caught a few random ones.
don't worry: the design team has a plan to make all key UI elements on MSE bright flaming red as a visceral "hot! don't touch!" reminder for new users.
@Shog9 In regards to what?
moderating sites as an employee
Jeff's thoughts about their "after life":
I want a giant version of this heatsink as my tombstone, just right on top of my grave. Even in death I RUN BLAZIN' HOT FIYAH
that looks sorta like a pasta maker
8:50 PM
Cool grave design, though
@Shog9 Anything salient in that guide?
Or a weird typewriter.
@Shog9 So you're paid for that?
though I'd prefer to reside in the upper chamber
not really
8:51 PM
Sounds like the same Kindergarten jobs I have to do at my company ;-)
So if an active moderator of a site who moderates purely through their staff rights later ends their employment with SE, they have to get elected or appointed again in order to keep serving as a moderator?
On a beta site without elections, is it likely that they'd just be appointed right afterward?
Appointed mods don't have right of return.
@Catija Meaning?
8:55 PM
I suspect it's possible, if the appointed mod team and/or community said "dude, we really want that employee back because he's a great moderator". CM team would probably strongly consider that.
again, you're essentially trying to suss out a process from something that we've done so rarely as to have not decided on a process for beyond "if you're into it, you can do it, just read this guide first"
When I first started working at Facebook, I made this my profile picture. I had so many people trying to "debug" why my profile picture wasn't loading, I had to change it.
@Derpy Thanks for reminding me. I forgot it the last two years. Since I'm rereading the whole trilogy, I guess it would be appropriate to bring a towel now.
@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog Elected mods who leave on good terms are able to request their position back at any time. Appointed mods are not... that's just ... always been the rules as I've heard them.
FWIW, this was the comment Cat referred to a page or so back:
This is a common misconception, @Catija. Of the 13689 users to encounter a comprehensive ban on Stack Overflow over the past 90 days, only 3677 - about 27% - had even half of their questions deleted. And speaking of 27... That's the precise number of users to hit the q-ban with all of their questions deleted in the same time period. See the bullet above about really unlucky users... — Shog9 ♦ 17 hours ago
8:57 PM
rare look at Shog's clipboard
Someone's going to Canada. :P
I normally use it to hold a list of cities ineligible for sweepstakes
@Shog9 Does it start with Colorado Springs and Denver?
@Shog9 Quebec n'est pas une ville
8:59 PM
close enough
aaand joke fail
@Catija Try a "putine", they frequently say it's good. I am not convinced yet, but just shudder. Personally I love bread dumplings with gravy way more.
@Catija If you end up in Montreal get some Poutine, it is awesome.
@πάνταῥεῖ Poutine? Alas, I am not going to Canada... I will be unlikely to travel anywhere for the next 2-3 years because we're spending all of our moneys on our house.
I need more moneys.
@Mgetz I'm more about the "bread dumplings with gravy" though. You can get that at my awesome county.
9:02 PM
I'll gladly take an all-expenses-paid trip to... well.. just about anywhere, at this point.
I've always found houses interesting, financially. Consider a house worth $100k, and a vacation worth $1k (scale numbers appropriately as desired). It seems perfectly normal that after closing on a $100k house, you're unable/unwilling to take a $1k vacation.
But scale the numbers down: After buying a $100 item, it'd be weird to be unable/unwilling to buy a $1 stick of gum
This story has no punchline, just musing
Well, when your loan adds a chunk to your monthly required expenses that is equivalent to the cost of the vacation... you sort of don't have any money to spare.
@Catija You're completly unlike me then
There are very few things that motivate me to leave my city
I love to travel.
There used to be a time when we made very frequent trips to India
9:05 PM
Tents! I've always been a compassionate camper for holidays :-P
I'm kinda meh on travel. I actually like the logistics of getting places more than I like being there, usually
Austin is great... don't get me wrong... but I really love seeing the people in other places... things I take for granted here as "normal" are... not a thing elsewhere.
@Undo OK. A car some equipment and a tent ...
I like Austin too...San Diego gets too boring.
For example, I'm fascinated by the fact that in London (maybe all of the UK), the stop lights turn amber in both directions... when going to red (as they do in the US) and when going to green... so running a yellow light is much less likely because everyone's ready to shoot right out into the intersection the second it turns green.
9:07 PM
Once we had a 3 hour layover in Denver or wherever. On the tarmac, I managed to figure out that our airline had a flight boarding in literally ten minutes to our destination... We had no layover in Denver; they happily moved us to this earlier flight because the later one was overbooked. It was on a nicer, faster plane and got us there three hours early.
I rode that high all week.
I don't like flying
@Catija In many Indian cities (e.g. Nagpur), the lights run just like they do here in the U.S., but there's also a clock indicating how many seconds are remaining before the light changes. People always run the light when there are 5 seconds remaining...
Always get this unfounded sense of dread that the plane is gonna crash
@Magisch I used to have that. Totally understand - you can pump your brain full of all the statistics you want on how airliners never ever crash, it doesn't matter when you look out the window and the wing is flapping around like it's held on with a rubber band
statistically speaking I'm much more likely to get run over while biking to work
9:09 PM
@Catija You got to see my flight log
but still..
I had one flight where there was a loose screw on the engine I was sitting right next to. I determined that the tiny screw was probably not holding anything terribly important on, but didn't keep me from staring at it all flight
A lot of air accidents could have been prevented if passengers were observant and noticed something wrong outside, and alerted crew
@Magisch You'll never get in these joys about the potential Tomato Juice can have. What a pity.
@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog I did. :)
9:14 PM
@Undo ?
@Catija Like the picture the Air France pilot drew?
The worst trip I had was when I was working on Scotland. We travelled up to Edinburgh from Manchester every Monday, usually on a BAC 1-11. Anyway, one Monday the 1-11 was bust, so they shovelled us all into an ancient Viscount turboprop. When the thing eventually reached Edinburgh, a powerful sidewind gust hit us just as the main gear hit the concrete.

I was looking out and saw the wingtip brushing though the grass beside the runway...
The DC-10 still is a great aviation engine. I've had the honor to be forced using it.
@πάνταῥεῖ lol
@Martin I was sitting with straight view at the wings and flaps. Not every work out convinced me to have my doubts gone.
But anyways aviation seems to be much safer, than using Stack Exchange ;-)
10:07 PM
@πάνταῥεῖ Aviation is more of a threat to mental health rather than physical injury/death in crashes. Every time I walk into an airport I shudder - what check-in/security screwup is going to make me miss my flight this time:(
The overall statistics seem to approve that well.
I mean, is there anything more depressing than security rope-lines that are so full of manic, depressed pax that you cannot even see the scanners/X-ray bays in the far distance?
@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog I don't really have time, but could probably open source it if you can find some folks interested in it
warning - it's probably pretty ugly
Three day weekend upcoming... time for everything to break.
Let's agree that taking a flight isn't really an enjoyable experience (besides the Tomato Juice served)
10:13 PM
@MartinJames Ever think about the irony of collecting defenseless people in giant groups outside the secured area? Seems to defeat the purpose to me...
i haven't flown on anything bigger than a 2 seater cesna
Wow. That seems to be even more need of trust @Kevin
i rather drive for most trips, even if it means breaking the drive between two days
like, this past weekend it was a 12 hour trip, so we drove 6 hours, stayed the night, and the next day toured a brewery before going on the 2nd half
I love driving. It gets you companioned with the country and landscape.
One of my best trips was just straight through the RSA and their "Karoo" desert. A flight from East London to Kapstadt would have left "Tomato Juice Taste", but not any of these great experiences.
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