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3:17 PM
Hi my room has been frozen for inactivity, how do I unfreeze it?
@JakeSymons I've unfrozen it, but make sure to actually use it otherwise it'll just be frozen again :)
@balpha thanks :)
Why are rooms which are of Chat.SE server shown with Chat.Meta server design?
You can still parent a room to Meta on chat.SE.
@JourneymanGeek Not that bad? I have the absolute most EXP humanly possible in 2017 on Database Administrators. I'm the baddest ass database guy person in the world. From coast to coast, I'm the King of the SELECT.
3:26 PM
Same as a room can be parented to SO on chat.SE.
@EvanCarroll there's no questioning the fact that you're awesome
Anyway, I'm out =) take care, and don't forget to lick no boots and opt-out before the deadline
@EvanCarroll yeah well, the whole legal crap means scrap to me
@EvanCarroll so how do you do a left inner join with a count on oracle DB version 3?
(Yes I'm being rude and pedantic, Oracle is a royal pain)
I'm not going anywhere, but generally it amounts to this: every intelligent third party entity (EFF, Pew, etc) is quite clear about us getting screwed with the arbitration clause. on this matter, by any definition SO is acting as an entity in defense of its own interests. I can't see why you wouldn't opt out, even if you think they literally crap gold and saved the world from ExpertsExchange killing everyone's first born.
3:31 PM
@Mgetz Evan, not Burleson.
The Oracle one is Burleson
@Derpy what? I'm not following
^ him, aka Oracle's version of Skeet
And even if you opt out, you have staff being very transparent that arbitration is always on the table (at least on that point). So by what measure do you lose anything to assert your rights?
Oracle is the company that owns, maintains, and develops MySQL? Right?
You want to trust your data to those guys.... ? They're doing it for the lulz.
TFS : git = sqlServer : Oracle
^ that's my personal view
@EvanCarroll and Oracle DB... I was mostly being facetious with the declaration of knowledge given how fragmented the relational DB world is
3:36 PM
@EvanCarroll Any links?
@EvanCarroll well, I won't see myself suing SE in this lifetime simply because I'm Iranian and living in Iran
@user5389107 for the EFF? stackoverflow.com/tags/templeos
@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ then Legally you should be banned immediately on admitting to that to prevent StackExchange from violating sanctions
for both I hear people claiming those are very good, more efficient, better performance and such. Yet I only see a sea of pain of over-complex syntax
@Derpy My issue with oracle is that the only way to properly support it is to buy Oracle Professional services.
if MSSQL can do 90% of that for 10% of the cost... that makes more sense
@Mgetz all this ridiculous US litigation
@Mgetz I am still searching for an old story I once read about Oracle, bugs, table metadata and prime numbers. I will try to summarize it for your fun. Tomorrow.
@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ Legislation, and this is old stuff that never got lifted.
Sadly, I don't think I will ever find the original again.
3:42 PM
@Mgetz That's a weird way to spin that.
@EvanCarroll welcome to weird quirks of sanctions law
You can't do business with Iranians subject to nuclear and other sanctions, that doesn't mean you can't provide a free service for them.
@EvanCarroll actually you can't provide any technological service to Iranians, which puts Tor in an odd spot, ditto Telegram. But the US Government looks the other way.
Link or source?
@Mgetz There were quite a few Iranians on SE before the nuclear deal, so
3:48 PM
@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ it's not illegal for them to be on SE insofar as SE doesn't know it IIRC
hence the "on admitting"
I don't think that's true Mgetz. I think SE can know, so long as business does not transpire between Iran and the USA.
most companies take the safe route and just block Iran all together
Access to information and participation is permitted.
The same is true of Cuba.
@Mgetz Hmm, does having edited the location in profile count as knowing?
@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ technically if you're coming from an Iranian IP I think that counts
if you're on a VPN I think they get out of it
3:49 PM
Q: Can you provide free technical services to Iranians?

Evan CarrollIs it legal to provide free technical services to Iranians, or to grant them access to services such as websites and social media? Is it the duty of American Companies to actively prevent access from Iranian IPs and Users? To what extent can use be permitted?

SE is very marginalizing me
This network is far more right-wing then American society at large.
So I could see that.
I'm in the padding right now
@EvanCarroll check your sidebar, it's OFAC
@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ I never said the policy was a good one...
it's made by people that don't realize they are undermining the US morally abroad
@Mgetz I was actually joking
3:52 PM
@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ fair enough, I wasn't
I'm very worried right now that my government is trying to seek Casus Belli right now against Iran
@Mgetz that seems to reaffirm my stance.
OK, sooo, what do they say as the final farewell?
Hasta La Vista, baby
@EvanCarroll you still have to apply for and get those licenses
3:54 PM
Wait, wrong goodbye
That leads us to stuff that might have once been on a pedestal, but shouldn't have been, including stuff the three-year-ago you might have upvoted. If it hurts people, it needs to go. Where do we stop? Where people stop feeling hurt.
it might be worth asking if SE has them
That is going to be unworkable
Tim has been successfully brainwashed.
He is no longer on our side.
3:55 PM
Some people feel hurt being told to do anything by a woman because they come from a culture where that is a great shame. How does SE square that with equal treatment?
I feel hurt by the prospect of a one-strike policy.
I don't understand what Tim is saying.. ?
Who was being an asshole? I saw one dude get Tim-slapped but he was kind of being a jerk.
I guess Tim banned him?
@user1114 which side is that?
It's a pretty bold move to assume that the side you disagree with is insane.
3:58 PM
I think you're being unfair to tim
If I call @rene a tree tumbo, is that offensive?
Stack is adopting unsatisfiable ideologies that have no stopping point.
That is not sane.
@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ yes, flagged
He's been very reasonable in every interaction I've had with him so far. I'm sure you can still discuss this with him reasonably.
3:58 PM
That is the chaos of modern politics
invited in the front door
with a welcome mat
You know, I try to not take stuff personally, and I really try to take stuff in jest, even when it's something from my personal account being hauled into work. But calling me SANE? that's just crossing some major lines.
That escalated quickly
3:59 PM
@TimPost Now you're moving the goalpost
@TimPost 1000 years dun . . . Network-wide ban
We just have to reconsider Tim, all of him.
@TimPost that would mean conforming to norms and getting rid of the pink fuzzy bunny slippers you wear in meetings
I agree with 1114. SE should be very careful that they don't hurt well-meaning people that make mistakes in conversation. That group includes me.
/me checks to see if I called @TimPost insane.. Noappp. Wasn't me! whoof.
Someone getting a short vacation. Lol.
4:02 PM
@JohnDvorak our philosophy has always been to moderate behaviors, not people. I think that's a good path to stick to.
@user1114 That's my personal account, I make it very clear that tweets are my own. You're more than free to stop following it, looking at it, or interacting with it in any way.
To be less quipped, I guess the sides are “the community” versus “Joel’s feelings”
joel is as far removed from the community as you can get
I don't buy my feelings at a Goodwill shop where Joel donates his used feelings, I have my own mind.
I think it's pretty mean to assume tim is just parroting a company line on his personal account
4:03 PM
I didn’t say he was parroting
Or to draw his personal account into this. Nobody wants their private feelings to be brought into their work like that
I know I would hate it. Random musings of my day don't need to follow me to work
he is internalizing the views of the company at large. It is an accurate reflection of he types of beliefs leading the recent rhetoric which is burning off valuable users.
That's again pretty infantilizing. Whether you agree or not, why do you assume these aren't his own developed views?
Tim is unfortunately one of the few public faces of that
Is this devolving into another anti-CoC debate? If so, that's the most not-shitty move StackExchange has ever made.
4:05 PM
it’s not about Tim, he’s just a mirror behind the wall.
<- supports the CoC
Evan is a in a funny spot.
Then maybe not cite his personal account as evidence of company policy going awry
I've never been a fan of Clash of Clans, though that might be caused primarily by low exposure.
When Joel bothers to post be sure I’ll tell him directly.
4:06 PM
I'm gonna bow out of this conversation
@user5389107 I already did
Anything that makes the little alt-right contingency rage quit is a friend of mine. If StackExchange gets me some more MAGA tears, it'll be more useful than the inferior knockoff of Yahoo Answers.
@EvanCarroll I'm not part of the Alt-right, in fact I'm quite liberal. The reason I bowed out is because it was an argument and if you're arguing you've already lost
What is an argument? The CoC?
@Mgetz It's hard to argue against that logic.
4:08 PM
It’s such a shame that Pekka didn’t end up applying for the job. He may have been the piece the company needed to keep its head on straight.
The difference between a discussion and an argument is subtle and very very important.
It's a tool to piss off right wingers that don't like women/poc in tech, they're abundant here. Anything is a change in the right direction.
newbie question, CoC mean what ?
Code of Conduct.
@yagmoth555 Code of Conduct
4:09 PM
ah ok!, thanks
Google thinks it's Clash of Clans
@JohnDvorak I think this is a lot more amusing if that was the case
@user1114 maybe go for a walk?
:6950684 language
Kinda seems like you're frustrated about something that... we can't resolve here.
4:12 PM
CoC is liberals "Mission Accomplished" banner.
Evan you don't have to pour salt in the obvious wound too
not really
I don't think the current code of conduct is political
@EvanCarroll I can't agree with that
Code of Conduct ^
4:13 PM
Where I come from there are more then 2 viewpoints to any discussion so categorizing something into either strictly conservative or liberal is reductive.
Ok, most people on the right of me (99% of this network) -- think it'll make a difference, we'll see. They don't make a difference. Wish they did make a difference. Wish they were what people were afraid of but they're not.
I'm fine discussing the code of conduct, but I'm not here to discuss politics. If you want to discuss the reasons for the policy that's fine. But if you want to make it political I'm going to step out because that is going to turn into a flame war
That's my opinion: the problem is alt-right racists, sexists. Solution is developing principles and banning people that don't adhere to those principles.
You just know there's a backstory to "Do not use the pool if you're ill with diarrhea" rule
@user5389107 most policies have a backstory, it would almost be better if the story was included in the policy along with the line "and this is why we can't have nice things"
4:16 PM
@EvanCarroll let's not
How about we don't turn this into an arena for political grandstanding
Lets discuss these instead:
@user5389107 wildcats or under a sofa?
Sand cats
Felis Margerita
meow we are getting to the interesting stuff
... I'm going to the purrgatory for that pun, aren't I?
@user5389107 But do they like Margherita pizza ;p
@JohnDvorak get out meow
4:20 PM
I approve of questionable cat puns
@Mgetz tequila is bad for kitties
@Shog9 not following the Tequila path can mew explain?
Tequila is bad for everything
but that never stops me
@Mgetz apparently limes are toxic to cats
@Shog9 I'm just wondering how you went from Margherita pizza to tequila
that's an ocean of a jump
Quite literally from Italy to Mexico
4:24 PM
yeah... an ocean of tequila w/ lime juice!
"A margarita is a cocktail consisting of tequila, orange liqueur, and lime juice often served with salt on the rim of the glass." :P
@yagmoth555 Pizza Margherita
I had a lot of tequila in mexico on a boat and i woke up on a lounger at an "adult experience" hotel
I gotta tell you, I did not need that experience
> The sand cat (Felis margarita), also known as the sand dune cat, is the only cat living foremost in true deserts.
They're so small even when they're grown up and they have little hair tufts on their feet to keep them from the scorching sand
@user5389107 that explains the ears, they need them for cooling like Fennecs
4:27 PM
@Mgetz oh, didn't knew it was a real meal, just google it
@Mgetz actually, like the caracal, the tufts on the ears are designed to funnel sounds into the ear for extreme hearing (most tufted ear felines are bird hunters, so they need super feline hearing for that)
Well, I say actually but I don't know if it provides a heating relief on top of that
I want to cuddle sand kittens
but they're really not domesticated.
tis the same with crocodiles
@SterlingArcher so I knew about the tuffs from bobcats. But I was referring to the actual size of the skin of the ears itself. and if you look at it (both on a fennec and these) you'll notice an unusual amount of bloodflow. IIRC cats like dogs don't sweat and need alternative mechanisms.
4:34 PM
Hmm, usually exposed veins and skin is for heating up, rather than cooling down. It may be possible that the ears have more bloodflow because of the muscles needed to move them?
much like how the human tongue has huge veins because it's a complex muscle
> The fennec's characteristic ears are the largest among all foxes relative to body size,[4] and serve to dissipate heat, as they have many blood vessels close to the skin.[9]
Both Sand Cats and Fennecs are nocturnal IIRC
don't deserts get really cold in the night?
desserts, too
@user5389107 Depends on the desert, and 'Cold' is relative. Here in Colorado it can drop 40F easily
I remember hearing some deserts would drop from 45C day to 5C night
4:38 PM
yah deserts don't retain heat for long
the sand is only hot on the surface
@user5389107 depends on the time of year
Death valley for example goes from a mean high of 34C to 5C overnight during March
they should rename that to Health Valley
@SterlingArcher After they rename this
in JavaScript on Stack Overflow Chat, yesterday, by Benjamin Gruenbaum
@room I'm going to see if this place dies down, and if everyone is still on discord in 2 weeks we'll have a discussion about this place.

I imagine a much less welcoming to newbies (and much more welcoming to new experienced developers) experience. Not doing the stuff we never enjoyed doing (like answering uninteresting or easily researchable questions, arguing with people who just barge in and claim "X is bad", etc).

I'd like to genuinely create a safer space for more experienced devs that will help deal with burnout and other effects of uncontrolled interaction with newbie programmers in
Fork it.
4:44 PM
@user1114 as someone that spends time in Lounge<C++> and having seen this before... yeah Forking is necessary
Isn't the Lounge still the exact same, just less people?
@SterlingArcher nope, mostly because its dead most of them moved to discord
tbf most of the drama ended when two particular users left
I have a feeling most of the JS room will leave
I'm not actually familiar with what happened there only that it eclipsed the Lounge in terms of drama enough they decided to do something about it
5:03 PM
I am not even sure if this is some abusive insult:
Q: how does a ramanathapuram mandai dog look like?

Rafeek Mohamed Origin: ramanathapuram district. Hieght:26-30 inches. Life span:18-19 years. Look: Mastiff look with big paws,big head,thick long tail,strong jaw,heavy boned ,skin fold below neck and long and thick ears. Eye color: Black, red, brown, golden color. Bark: Loud bark as an dane. Color: 13 ...

@πάνταῥεῖ ...what on earth
@πάνταῥεῖ I wasn't even sure how to comment a response to that, I just flagged and voted. I feel like I should respond with a comment... but with what?
@Mgetz Better no comments. Don't feed the trolls.
Hi everyone.
Stil the inclusion policy debate?
looks like R/A to me
Yeah, somehow.
May be along with a particular name to insult
Flagged as R/A now.
5:13 PM
@JohnDvorak R/A?
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Blacklisted user: System Crashed After Gpu Driver Update by ysfl on elementaryos.SE
Blacklisted user - blacklisted for //elementaryos.stackexchange.com/a/15297 (https://m.erwaysoftware.com/posts/by-url?url=//elementaryos.stackexchange.com/a/15297) by the metasmoke API
sd fpu-
@SmokeDetector fpu-
sd poof
@SmokeDetector fpu-
5:17 PM
@πάνταῥεῖ FYI the u in fpu is unnecessary in most cases. It doesn't remove users from the blacklist; it whitelists them from username checks.
Unless they're caught by "blacklisted username" or "potentially bad keyword in username," it doesn't do anything
Ah THX for the info. That user just seems to have linked to their personal blog once too often.
To remove them from the blacklist, use !!/rmblu -- I've done that already in CHQ
THX again. That was my intend.
hmm, I wonder what the GPDR impacts on smokedetector will be
5:23 PM
Tim lost his keys
It's a strange coincidence that 8 users would all lose their keys.
@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog Because people on meta vote with emotions not based on the value of the question
+1. Aside: you suggest adding an explanation, but don't propose what the explanation is. Automatic deletion of open 0-score questions always struck me as pointless and destructive and I don't know why we have it.
Whenever I ask that question, the real question is, why are people disagreeing with it?
@MarkAmery Short answer: xkcd.com/979
A: Why aren't abandoned questions deleted on meta sites?

Shog9This only applies to the RemoveAbandonedQuestions check; all other automated question deletion routines documented on that page run on both main and meta sites. I have no idea why meta sites were excluded, but if I had to guess I'd say it's because they don't particularly benefit from being incl...

"the primary value of the Abandoned check is in getting old, unanswered questions out of search results where otherwise they'd just add to the ever-growing pile of noise"
in Charcoal HQ on The Stack Exchange Network Chat, 13 secs ago, by ArtOfCode
yeah, we'll worry about that if we have to worry about it
5:27 PM
I'm not sure the rationale makes sense
@NobodyNada the problem is when you have to worry about it it comes with a 20million Euro or 4% of turnover price tag
Noted - I saw your comment before Yvette cleared up
Please do not accuse others of trolling. It falls against the "Be Nice" policy.
> a warning in writing in cases of first and non-intentional noncompliance (source)
@MarkAmery TBH I preferred jpp's version
5:30 PM
@NobodyNada That assumes regulators assume good faith
@user3956566 You've restored your username on Stack Overflow?
I still don't get your feelings on the matter, tbh, @SonictheInclusiveHedgehog. You have a username taking the piss (at least, I presume that's the intent) out of the notion of "inclusivity", but also find even the mention of your heritage as to be offensive? I'm struggling to understand the mindset from which it's possible to have both of those views simultaneously.
@Mgetz are they really going to assume bad-faith for a tiny volunteer organization who happens to host a tiny web server that only we really use?
(Unsure if the comment above is offensive by your standards, for obvious reasons.)
5:32 PM
@MarkAmery No, I found your comment saying that I was trolling offensive. The reference to my heritage was more of a matter of personal preference.
Most users prefer it when others not comment publicly on someone's heritage.
Blacklisted user - blacklisted for //askubuntu.com/a/1036189 (https://m.erwaysoftware.com/posts/by-url?url=//askubuntu.com/a/1036189) by the metasmoke API
Also, I very much agree with the notion of inclusivity.
@NobodyNada I can only speak to what my employer said during their training which was that GDPR is capable of fines on the first instance.
5:35 PM
i very much dislike the notion that one can assume what someone else may be offended by.
Hmm. Fine. FWIW, "trolling" was meant as a value-neutral description of your motives (stating an opinion that you don't sincerely hold for the purpose of provocation); I am not sure what you read into it, but I am not of the view that "trolling" is necessarily a bad thing and sometimes very deliberately engage in it. I'm not sure if we have a difference in interpretation of the word or a difference in values over whether it's a legitimate tactic of discussion.
@SmokeDetector fp
@πάνταῥεῖ Registered answer as false positive and removed user from the blacklist.
@MarkAmery While people may have different personal opinions, it's a fact that your comment saying I was trolling falls against the Be Nice policy.
Again, I wholly disagree
5:37 PM
Stop trolling everyone please
The reason why I know this is because in the past, I accused someone of trolling in the same manner as you did, and I was told it violated the policy (that it doesn't care about it being true or there being evidence).
Like @SonictheInclusiveHedgehog, I am in fact giving a sincere opinion.
everyone meant everyone
Am I acting more like Makyen now?
@Shog9 What do you think of my FR here? meta.stackexchange.com/questions/310163/…
5:40 PM
So, again, what's your issue with the word? Do you think that the (incorrect) assertion about your underlying motives was inherently against the Be Nice policy? Or do you consider the word itself to be an insult, independent of its meaning? I'm not clear on what your objection is.
@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog why does that need a ping? It's totally your choice...but I personally wouldn't ping Shog unless he's really urgently needed somewhere
Also: the whole interaction makes much more sense to me now that I grasp that your username here is meant to be genuinely pro-"inclusion", rather than mocking it. That hadn't even occurred to me as an interpretation prior to this conversation, to be honest; perhaps it should've.
It doesn't fall against Shog's 9 Rules of Pinging
I avoid pinging him unless I'm replying to him, or there is a firestorm
I'm pretty sure Shog already saw it.
5:42 PM
@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog are you taking a stab at them?
No, I wish Shog would explain things very detailed much like Makyen.
@Sonic I'd follow just the advice and flesh out your FR to something more concrete.
i.e. add the explanations you wish to see.
Apparently SE is hiring a new CM
I wonder who'll end up taking up that mantle
@user5389107 o_o
@user5389107 Aww I want moderator privileges on MSE
5:52 PM
I have a feeling the job comes with a whole lot more then that
@user5389107 Just a jab
The existing CMs seem pretty level-headed and I'm very grateful for that in the wake of the welcoming blog post -- hopefully the new one is as well
But it'll be interesting and it's also good news because it means that the community team will have more ressources
Thats always a good thing for the site at large
As long as the new CM understands the goal of the site instead of trying to change them
5:55 PM
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Pattern-matching website in body: Can I set dwm.exe to run on integrated GPU? by rzippo on superuser.com
Oh yikes, there's a new CM?
New job listing
It doesn't indicate what the salary is
Oh right, sorry, missed the 18:50 comment
Probably really person and experience dependant
Evan is maybe into it....
Can't we nominate existing mods?
5:59 PM
They may favor to bring in someone with a new perspective
Or not, their hiring process isn't exactly public outside from what they do for devs
@user5389107 ...yikes
I mean, you can encourage people to apply. But it's a bit odd to have people nominated for a job.
Has there ever been an instance where someone who gained moderator privileges entirely through becoming a staff member later used them to moderate a site and get involved in it?
new perspectives aren't always bad
@user5389107 hey nice!

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