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10:00 AM
@JourneymanGeek anything you want me to add here?
@rene yanno how they say if you have nothing good to say you should say nothing at all? ;p
@JourneymanGeek one of your lost puppies :P
I didn't see the link
@rene quite literally nothing I can do for him
Sooo. no, nothing to add too
10:15 AM
@JourneymanGeek I assumed so. Thanks for checking.
@JourneymanGeek What did you think?
11:05 AM
do c# decimals secretly carry with them some info about the number of digits they were defined with?
11:33 AM
^ if someone is interested, this is why I was asking
11:56 AM
Marc's comment is all there is to say
Why? smells like POB (j/k, or not)
But it seems to make sense for decimal to carry the information regarding the mantissa if it's used for currency
that said, I'm not a C# programmer
@Shadow has been rescued from the clutches of Dr. Eggman!
12:12 PM
Oh, good to see someone still remembers me! :D
How much drama did I miss here? ;)
honestly, I really feel time flies...
@ShadowWizard Amy flirted with me...twice. And I didn't like it.
@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog Amy is... @Princess? (the human one ;))
@ShadowWizard very little ;p
12:13 PM
@ShadowWizard No, that's Rouge...@Derpy is Amy
@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog ohhh.. lol, didn't see that coming!
@ShadowWizard I'm glad you made amends though
@Shadow And to think, you and Rouge used to work for Eggman, until Amy mistook you for me
@Shadow I hope you received my apology
...earlier, for making those comments about you making a mockery of this and that.
@hey yeah, I assume the C# decimal type is modeled similar as the MS SQL type to make mapping trivial.
@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog I think you need a good pair of Bart if you are mistaking beautiful gray ponies for recolored hedgehog that were purple-ish and now are bright pink.
12:20 PM
throw new ColorOverflowException()
Must be genetic. After all the other one can't seem to distinguish a black hedgehog from a blue one. Perhaps hedgehogs can't distinguish colors?
(or spike shapes. Or shoes)
//lmgtfy do hedgehogs see color
12:40 PM
@PrincessLuna does she also come with a //raiseTheSun command?
@JourneymanGeek praise dog
@Derpy It does now :3
@JourneymanGeek also praise these
12:42 PM
"no hotlinking"
and that is another of the reason for not having automatic oneboxing on the chat.
that's not the MLP movie, you know.
12:53 PM
@Derpy You're just wearing a disguise.
@Derpy Not even a "Silver" one.
Q: What posts/comments fall under bigotry of any kind?

Triyugi Narayan ManiAccording to the Be nice policy: Language likely to offend or alienate individuals or groups based on race, gender, sexual orientation, religion, etc. will not be tolerated. At all. (Those are just a few examples; when in doubt, just don't.) I have recently flagged a comment that was saying...

Anyone to answer? Looks at a pup with mod hat
what is 'Extension of indications' when it comes to new medicine does anyone know?
I think I'll see what the local mods have to say first ;p
@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog the MLP fan in the Sonic universe is Eggman, not Amy
12:57 PM
@Derpy She has a disguise so she can sneak out of Eggman's lair should she get trapped again
Does anyone play Sonic Dash?
@JourneymanGeek Consider that within the context of a religion, it's impossible for one sect not to percieve the other as bigoted
@user5389107 the hinduism site just has too much drama :(
also, I think we mostly get along
I think vaishnavites are awesome and the smaller temples in my part of the south have this lovely tradition of telling folks who walk in about the local deity
@JourneymanGeek By steering away from topics that divide us, I think
@user5389107 Consider Mi Yodeya or christianity.
They seem ok
heck, judaism actually does very practical rules interpretation questions that work very well on the SE platform
12:59 PM
With a herculean effort, strict topicality requirements, strict "No preaching" requirements and a metric ton of community moderation
the third isn't an issue?
none of those are
Outside folk who want to pick and choose scripture
@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog do you even need a disguise? During SA1 they were basically having a pajama party on the egg-carrier and he almost didn't notice it.
1:00 PM
it's just what I meant by "steering clear from what divides us"
Sonic Boom isn't canon, by the way.
I don't envy tim post right now
His job just got increasingly more difficult balancing interests while being bashed from both sides
@user5389107 or most of the CM team
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword in answer, potentially bad keyword in answer: Did Lord Rama create or invent fire? by Yaqub on hinduism.SE
1:03 PM
must feel like being a playground monitor with 2 fighting kids
except the kids have baseball bats and are grown adults
@JourneymanGeek good! I guess...
and you have a sign that says "please be nice to each other"
@user5389107 thanks! You saw the tweet(s)?
1:04 PM
@NogShine the problem with questions like that is they literally want an answer to bash people over the head with
@ShadowWizard yah
@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog that is the company that said that Knuckles and Sonic stories in Sonic & Knuckles happen at the same time. They don't seem to understand reality, go figure now what "canon" is in their vision :P
@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog yup, got it
@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog Sigh. Users don't know Be Nice policy there. That's the first reason.
Know is one thing
But you actually need to understand why its important
1:06 PM
@NogShine I'm pretty sure I know the policy by the word by now. Understanding how to apply it properly has proven ... challenging
What's nice even mean? ;p
I have a tendency to take everything literally so the nuance of it is trial and error based
I mean, I guess I have it easy
I've seen what the opposite is, especially in positions of authority.
I've also seen exactly what I can be at my worst.
I just... do the opposite ;p
@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog does "Let promise the old man a weapon of mass destruction in order to achieve my revenge against the world" count as "working for"?
@JourneymanGeek understanding is second thing. If someone says be nice, others say don't divert the topic in the name of rules and policies. What can we do with it?
1:09 PM
@NogShine I guess people need to work out two things.
Does being right mean more than the overall health of the site
@Derpy Well, Rouge was really an agent working for G.U.N.
@JourneymanGeek you see me when I get heated
and why they're on the site.
@user5389107 true.
See? You get mad.
room for improvement
I get mad. or sarcastic.
1:10 PM
I need to work on not actualizing that anger into comments better
@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog that took her time pursuing a different emerald than the ones she was meant to protect :P
I mean in real life.
nope, she was there just for the gems.
I hurt folks I cared about.
In real life I actually have the opposite problem
I'm extremely non confrontational and will almost never speak up on my own
1:12 PM
@JourneymanGeek You once claimed here that you never had to provide any sort of explanations to your actions. Did you do that in real life too, if I may ask?
@JourneymanGeek Do we do everything for helping site? - This is actually a comment on meta. There are many things people are interested other than site.
@PrincessLuna and..... she just stole your work.
@user5389107 Same with me. I am more open on the internet.
1:17 PM
I thought of something scary about SOfT. Is the private Q&A really private, without any periodical monitoring from staffs? What if a syndicate of drug dealer uses it?
@Derpy You'd be surprised how little work you need to do when you have sock puppets ;)
@PrincessLuna don't say you weren't warned when the little fillies will start playing with Celestia plushies during Nightmare Night then.
@hey They wouldn't notice ... we use code words throughout ... wait ... wait ... no ....
You apparently haven't noticed the //raiseTheSun command yet :>
@JourneymanGeek A modified version of this post should be an FAQ:
A: Remove upvoting on comments under a question, only allow downvoting

allquixotic If you don't know an answer, why don't you simply pass-by? Your meta-question (quoted above) is based upon the assumption that the question you asked on the main site meets our criteria for what a valid question is. IF you asked a question that is: On-topic, Answerable (with something oth...

(See the deleted comment on that post)
1:22 PM
@rene i heard some kind of flowers can be used as a drug >_> :p
@hey yes, but I'm not cannibalistic ...
@hey I understand that involves crushing them and then treating with toxic solvents. Some flowers may object.
Well while away from MSE chat, I became pretty active on Twitter... still not sure what's my place there, but it's huge and interesting. :D
@ShadowWizard be careful not to cross the dark side line...
@hey Sounds like it's too late. Only an exorcism can help now:(
1:29 PM
@ShadowWizard When I opened Twitter, there are many tweets... scrolled down for a long time to see tweets by others. ;)
@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog Only when I mess up
@hey still not sure where that line is in twitter... ;)
@NogShine lol
@ShadowWizard I tweet mostly boring stuff.
Since my cousin follows me ;p
@ShadowWizard the obvious and easy line is a drama/controversial tweet from a user with 1000 or more followers that got retweeted over 50 times. The rest is "play by ear" :(
@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog Nope
1:42 PM
@JourneymanGeek of, so only SFC stuff... I see... :P
@hey what about such tweets? I did reply to several of those, by local politicians. Am I doomed? ;)
oh, well, question closed with a plausible dupe. Yet, the answer doesn't sound right to me, even if it is from Skeet.
@Derpy you're welcome
If that is the reason, then Microsoft does not understand arithmetic
because, for them apparently 0.00M * 0.00M becomes 0.0000M
Technically correct is the best sort of correct
if they indeed had significant figures in mind.... that is really wrong.
like -very badly wrong-
Sorry, the question is closed as you wish, but I won't trust that answer I guess.
2:37 PM
@Feeds halp! i studied something that doesn't even exist D:
I told them not to use the gravity drive. They wouldn't listen. — Tim Post ♦ 18 secs ago
(cc @Derpy)
@SmokeDetector tpu-
2:52 PM
@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog it's called "flux capacitor"
@SmokeDetector if my onternet is good, I saw this post got nuked at -2. Curious if it's done by a mod or a staff... (which, either way, they recognized this kind of trolling?)
3:13 PM
@user5389107 Solution: find emails of the management team and send your complaints directly, so the CMs don't need to unfairly bear the burden.
@user1114 I doubt I have anything interesting or novel enough to say to be of value there
That doesn't need to stop you.
what if I value my time and theirs?
3:15 PM
it's a net gain of time to post to a smaller set of people.
Until they throw you into the the spam list ;p
firstname lastname @ stackoverflow.com will probably work for most of the people on this list.
I don't intend to email SO management
I guess my email got into their spam list since I contacted SE for buying Winter Bash hats
If you harass Bill Maher enough maybe he'll talk about it on his show.
3:17 PM
@hey I don't know what happened to the mail I sent to them recently. :D
I expect reply in 6-8 weeks.
@hey know that you weren't the only one. If after 5 years they still keep that line in the FAQS, to me it means that they like those mails.
Just try to be creative.
@JourneymanGeek FYI, Charcoal HQ decided that it's not a spam though
3:26 PM
@JourneymanGeek There is a website included
Its clearly spam.
It's someone asking in spanish for help in getting a US visa
and a link to a site.
... yes? and?
3:28 PM
Google translated:
> I would like tips or help for the processing of the American visa. They recommended an office in Guadalajara but I do not know if someone has already done business with them. This is the page: American visa Any help?
If that was in english I'd flag?
so, it's borderline
@hey There is a link under American Visa
3:28 PM
That's totally spam! Unless I've gotten rusty since becoming a mod.
it's not spam!
estoy viendo la posibilidad de visitar US, soy Colombiano y vivo en mexico como residente.
They live in Mexico, want help on how to get that visa
But that's what you'd say if you were a spammer trying to drop a link to your visa office
Or well, that's what they claim... I don't know, maybe I don't know what's spam anymore, but I thought it required someone trying to sell or advocate something
By borderline, I mean whether this is an unfortunate lost user who desperately needs to confirm if that service is safe, or a smart spammer.
@hey I would say latter
3:30 PM
So sniff test? Would I nuke it if it was SU?
Maybe the user too.
I... what, really?
Unless it's on Travel.SE, surely it'd be nuked for whatever the reason -_-
What is the user's history network wide?
3:33 PM
first time poster, and first time link
[delv-pls] meta.stackexchange.com/questions/310035/… @JourneymanGeek @rene @ShadowWizard
already done
3:57 PM
@hey , it's [tag:delv-pls] ;-)
@πάνταῥεῖ yeah, I usually refrain from editing a message when there are ping targets, because those who use desktop notification could get annoyed with... those notifications reappearing multiple times every time it gets edited ._.
(and that's also the reason why I seldom pinging in general)
Aww it forces a lower case B
now it's a pirate
Arr then ;-)
the discussion on the TOS doesn't get much friendlier: meta.stackexchange.com/a/310037/158100
4:13 PM
from someone who requested the TOS to be translated (which I apparently upvoted it), seems.... pretty serious in concerning the new TOS...
@rene Well, no warranties
I didn't expect or requested any
Me neither
4:46 PM
@Catija Well, if not for the 1st comment be it any, anyways. My point is that we should encourage users to answer questions, instead of asking for more clarification in inappropriate ways. There's already a close reason for this, and the text shown to the OP is under control of a community consensus. If a comment really helps the OP and they change their post, and it receives a positive score afterwards, I am open for all kinds of refunds as mentioned.
@πάνταῥεῖ I'm pretty sure that I've already mentioned that I think your idea is arbitrary and... just not good. Charging only for the first comment makes no sense to me. — Catija 6 mins ago
@Catija I could even think about a doubling charge for each comment left in an exponential manner :-D. In the spirit of avoid long discussions in comments.
But there needs to be done something mechanical and additional instead of plain flag moderation.
Comments aren't those 2nd class citizens anymore, the company promoted them years ago.
5:16 PM
@JoeFriend Have you considered leaving a witty comment on my question directly addressing you?
@rene Maybe you too, since you wrote the query I used to post the question.
5:53 PM
The last witty comment I wrote almost got me suspended ...
@πάνταῥεῖ I don't really think that charging for comments is the answer we need. I'm going to really be interested in seeing whether changing the "ask a comment" text will help.
Q: Será que o SE está a impor algumas visões politicas com as recentes atividades no metão?

Bruno CostaTem havido bastante conteúdo no Stack Exchange no meu ponto de vista no minimo polemico. Ora vejam: "Stack Overflow Isn't Very Welcoming" especially [...] marginalized groups? Does Stack Exchange have an ethical responsibility to address global discrimination and marginalisation? Moderator ba...

Google Translate works very well these days.
There have been times I've read an auto-translated page for half a minute before realizing.
minirant of the day: At SO scales, technical changes are the best - and possibly only - way to effect social changes. Moderators have always been pretty rough on this kind of content. We can draw a slightly harder line, but it's not going to be the huge change folks need.
6:01 PM
A: Será que o SE está a impor algumas visões politicas com as recentes atividades no metão?

GabeAcho ótimo que nós estamos, finalmente, admitindo que o SO tem um problema histórico com diversidade e inclusão, e fazendo alguma coisa pra lidar com o problema. Já tinha passado da hora. Espero que o SOpt siga o mesmo caminho. Demorou bastante pra empresa dar todo o apoio necessário às equipes...

@Undo Does this minirant relate to anything in particular?
Musings in the bathroom at work.
You take yourself for walks?
Broadly related to the blog post in a "what even can we do?" mentality. Conclusion I always come to is that any purely social change isn't feasible. Gotta put up technical rails first.
Like better comment tooling, or question templates.
I tend to agree with what I've heard a few people say in here... it's not going to be possible through completely technical or social changes... either are only half of the problem... for example... we have flags for comments... how many people actually use them? I get lots of comment flags on IPS because we repeatedly tell people to flag stuff.
So, the social change is getting people to act and making sure that the moderators are on the same page when it comes to what an acceptable comment is...
but the technical solution already exists... though it could be improved, too.
6:07 PM
@Catija Yep. Figure out what social change you want (which we still have to do, IMO), then figure out what you need to build to get there
@Catija Comment flags simply don't scale on SO. Tooling works fine on smaller sites, but it just doesn't work when you're staring down 200+ comment flags.
It relies on opening each post individually to get context. No one has time for that on SO, though it works fine when you have two or three comment flags a day.
@Undo That is problematic, sure... but if there's a wider flagging society in place, many more comments will be flagged by sufficient users to not need moderator intervention at all.
Would need numbers on how often that happens; suspect on SO it's less than a percent of all comments flagged.
Heck, it works fine when you get 50 a day... which we do... most days.
On IPS? Wow.
But that's why I love Shog's script so much. It makes the context much easier to follow.
6:10 PM
SO is pretty good at getting at least one flag on a bunch of nasty comments. Trick is whether they get a flag on all the bad comments in a thread - we only see that one comment, so if we don't open the post... you end up with stuff left over
@Undo And that's where the mod info is lacking... only the CMs can see that data. We really need an admin page for comments - user deleted, flagged (by reason), self-deleted, most flagged users... etc.
Fairly simple technical change, which would take a big chunk out of this problem.
If the flag page allowed you to expand all comments on a post without going to the post would that help?
I have some scripts that do that, but nowhere near as good as a built in solution
@Catija Well people don't read :-P
6:20 PM
people don't read unless they have to
unless they think they have to
On Stack Overflow, over the past 365 days, roughly 10% of comments have been deleted
roughly 1% of comments have been flagged
and roughly 12% of deleted comments were flagged
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Username similar to website in answer: Wrong nameserver set by resolvconf and NetworkManager by ookangzheng on askubuntu.com
@Shog9 That's why I proposed to have them some cost. Unless such, they won't even think about if there was something overseen ...
@Shog9 are those stats significantly different on smaller sites. Not talking about IPS and the religious sites
parse error
6:35 PM
undefined behavior
@Shog9 Is it easy to get stats on how many comments were community deleted without mod intervention?
@Undo 26% mod deleted
Huh, lower than I thought
Although I guess a big chunk of that other 74% is automated duplicate comment deletions and single-flag keyword deletions
6:41 PM
68% deleted by their own authors
Ah, there we go
Anyways, if it's such a low rate, is the concern about toxicity legitimate or just a ghost figure?
@πάνταῥεῖ I don't think that's true... when the link you're looking for usually says "add a comment", you're going to notice that it says "suggest improvements" instead...
@πάνταῥεῖ impossible to tell from these numbers
... at least a few people have noticed the change and wondered where the comment link went.
6:46 PM
@Shog9 That's a start :-D
The question is whether the change in text actually causes a change in thinking about what "comments" are for...
@Catija As mentioned, the 2nd class citizen argument doesn't seem to work out well anymore.
And that may take a few months to actually see... many users are used to years of the comment text reading the way it does... but it's like a mantra... the more you see it, the more likely it is going to change your thinking (even subconsciously) about what comments are for.
I didn't say anything about second class citizens?
But I did, and SE company did.
remember, > 1 million comments / year on Stack Overflow. 1% is a lot. 10% is 10x a lot
6:49 PM
I think that, even internally, the value of comments is recognized. The "second class" nature is more about how we're not really picky about deleting comments that aren't useful and less about comments being useful.
@Shog9 Yes, there should be less.
And this isn't IRC or Slack, where none of those comments are public and most of 'em become inaccessible after a short time. 90% of comments remain visible to anyone on the 'net
@rene for the rest of the network:
PctDeletedComments PctFlaggedComments PctDeletedCommentsFlagged Site Name
------------------ ------------------ ------------------------- ---------
11.532263168913    1.989882612992     16.359875031664           Super User
6.927017085496     1.137887173845     13.912324234904           Server Fault
13.207547169811    2.156334231805     14.285714285714           Stack Apps
12.244086662691    2.219571987013     16.720779220779           Cooking
7.500385369183     1.662592763867     21.25660598943            Home Improvement
Getting rid of comments entirely is a horrible choice for SE because it leaves us no way to ask for detail in a question or get clarification in an answer... it'd lead to something worse... people using answers for it...
Um...the comment un-hiding button on IPS still refers to them as "comments". On Area 51, it shows as "show [x] improvement suggestions". Is IPS going to get that fixed?
I answered that question on Meta IPS
6:52 PM
> 42.621605224652 14.981620927161 33.274721594239 Interpersonal Skills
Wow, and here I was thinking TWP was bad... but we're ahead by 10% :/
@Shog9 _"Master of raw data"_ [tag:badge-proposal] ;-)
You're doing a though job.
@Shog9 I couldn't find it. Link please?
search better. It's the last post I wrote there
6:57 PM
@Shog9 I think the one thing that this doesn't show (unless your headers just don't give the info) is what percentage of deleted comments were deleted by flags without moderator involvement? So, single rude flags or three+ NLN/rude flags?
Correct, that is not included
I'm typing SQL while on a call and chatting here and in another room, don't expect nuance
You imply that I should ever?
hey, I can be nuanced
Well, throttling input was the idea. Don't answer "gasp" plz.
@Shog9 No, your last post is totally different. Your second-to-last post is about it, but it doesn't explain why the button to un-collapse comments shows as "show [x] more comments" instead of "show [x] improvement suggestions" as it does on Area 51.
6:59 PM
you were so close...
No other changes until the experiment concludes, @thunderforge — Shog9 ♦ Apr 27 at 17:00
I've been assuming that it's something they'll change eventually, if the test is considered a success and they start rolling it out more widely. I'm not sure that all sites will want the change but making it network-wide may be more effective.

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