12:59 PM
I have simple question for you: How did you modified your bar (tools instead of review) & deleted "about" & added rep change or what the hell is that?
 
ah, moderation tools. Wow, thank you
Do you think that 3,725 reputation is fine for 56 days on SO ?
@CodyGray: ?
 
1:16 PM
@TJCrowder thanks for entering.
 
@genesis The point isn't earning rep, even though it seems like some people treat it that way and I think nearly everyone falls into that trap occasionally. The point is giving and receiving help in areas we're all interested in. Rep just indicates how much, and how well, you do that. Rep, like happiness, is a by-product of doing things right, rather than to goal unto itself.
 
@TJCrowder I do it to help people but also to get rep
@TJCrowder I want to be in top 10 users in some time.
However I didn't get something. why doesn't "posts awaiting edit approval" show to all people with rep > 2000 ?
 
:) Re the actual question about 3.7k in 56 days. I've been on SO for not quite two years and have ~71k of rep. (Puts me on page two of the all time rep list, not that I'd ever look or anything.) About two months in, I probably had 2.5k of rep. My participation comes and goes. :-)
@genesis Re edits awaiting approval: I don't know. :-) I haven't spent a lot of time figuring out how those various bits and pieces work.
Right, under deadline, have to dash. Best in your quest for top 10! Be prepared to spend a lot of time on it, and be sure that's really where you want to spend that time.
 
@TJCrowder Thank you :D
 
Remember that SO and the SE network are just websites, and whatever the FAQ says, push comes to shove they're run by the SE management. Consider how you'll feel if you spend a huge amount of time and effort acheiving top 10 (or top 10,000, which is frankly still pretty darned good) and fall out with management.
 
1:24 PM
@genesis you need 10k for that.
 
@Sathya but 2k to ve to approve questions/answers
 
@genesis: However, pursuing that goal, you're likely to learn a lot of things, make a couple of friends, etc., so there are other benefits. Just be sure you're going in with your eyes open. Right, really going now. :-)
 
@TJCrowder You want to say me that SE could end anytime?
 
@genesis you need 10k to view the list of all questions that have suggestions. If you happen to come across one, then yes that needs 2k.
 
@Sathya it does not give me sense but ok ;)
@TJCrowder you just got it now: I'll learn a lot of things :)
 
1:26 PM
Agreed with T.J. Reputation is not everything. There's nothing wrong with nearly 4k after about 2 months of participation.
 
@genesis Of course it could end. Similarly, you might do something that seems fine to you, but gets you banned from the SE network. Or the SE management might do something that you find inappropriate that makes you want to distance yourself from it.
 
Most of us "high-rep" users have either spent an insane amount of time here each day, or we've been lingering here a long time.
 
(hi @CodyGray)
also to note I don't have high rep but I do spend lots of time in here
 
@genesis I've seen that happen, on the SE network and elsewhere. And it's always sad. Someone puts in a lot of time and effort, and then poof.
@Sathya :)
 
@CodyGray SE is like facebook for me, it's like a drug :p
 
1:29 PM
@genesis yeah I never really got into Facebook... SE is a lot better drug. At least you're learning something useful while you waste all that time.
 
@TJCrowder you're right. If similar thing happens, I am ready to launch my own SE network :p
@CodyGray me neither, but many peoples has Facebook as a drug
 
@genesis :) Have fun. Okay, that deadline really isn't going to go away. laters
 
@Sathya you're a high-rep user on SU. that has to count for something.
 
No matter what will happen, it's possible that SE ends, but I'm ready to create something new. Maybe not better, but at least usable :p
 
@CodyGray 's true, I was referring to Meta.SO since we're in here :)
 
1:32 PM
I don't think SE is going anywhere any time soon, least of all Stack Overflow. It's been wildly successful since it was created.
@Sathya Hmm yeah I'm trying to break 10k on Meta. It's frustrating not to have the privileges you've come to love and expect.
 
@CodyGray I know it was. And I don't wish SO to die. I'm just saying what WOULD happen if ...
@CodyGray yes, that's the reason I'm rushing for REP, too
 
@CodyGray yep, I can see that. I'm just glad I crossed the 3k barrier.Can VTC, for everything else I can flag. 10k can wait.
 
BTW what SO lives from? I've seen only few adverts to SE sites
 
There are definitely ads, though you see less of them once you hit like 200 rep
 
adverts, affiliate links, careers.so
 
1:35 PM
They also have services that cost money, like Careers
11
Q: How does Stack Overflow, Meta Stack Overflow, etc. make money?

Wikis At Area 51How do Stack Overflow, Meta Stack Overflow, etc. stay up? Someone has got to pay for the infrastructure and people's wages. So how do these sites make money? Is it purely through the tiny advert visible to Internet Explorer users (but not Firefox with Adblock!)? If you vote down please specif...

 
But somebody tell me now. Why does Jon Skeet "work" for SO alltime ?
I mean, he's best and he will be, but whaT's his point ?
 
Jon Skeet is probably best example for time management done right
 
but why does he do it ?
 
As I understand, Jon Skeet does it all for fun.
He works for Google, but he doesn't even do C# programming there. He learned the language and wrote a book just for the fun of it.
 
93
Q: Why Does Jon Skeet never sleep?

AamirI mean, for God's sake, we are made to believe that he is a human just like us. So, please take a nap while mere mortals like us can answer some questions and get some (not-so)well-deserved reputation points. Or at least, give us some timeslots(in GMT Please, no algorithms here) during which you ...

 
1:39 PM
@CodyGray he works for google? :D I didn't know that
 
Yup, Google London.
Honestly I've never understood the fascination with Jon Skeet though. I guess I missed out on the early days of the site when everyone knew everyone else
He's obviously a smart guy, but we've got a lot of smart people here
 
BTW, how did SO grown so fast in early days? It was first Q&A site about programming ever?
 
No, not at all. There have been lots of others, like the MSDN forums and Experts Exchange
 
so tell me. What made SE so unique?
 
The goal of SO was to do things differently than all the other sites. Mainly eliminating all the "noise" of other forums and focus on answers.
For a long time, there were no comments. All you could do was post an answer. I'm still getting used to chat stuff...
 
1:44 PM
aah, so at start it was so unique because nobody could spam with "me too" to answer, right?
like on forums
 
@genesis that wasn't there earlier, it's something SEI has incorporated from feedback
 
Right. It's still like that. If stuff like that gets posted, they're deleted very quickly. Under a minute is not unusual.
 
So how did it start?
 
what made SE unique was the voting & rep. Rep brought in the game factor, voting means the right answer (almost always) bubbled up.
@genesis there hasn't been too many drastic changes from an appearance POV
 
even when there were 50 users only?
 
1:47 PM
I'm not really sure what it was like way back then. I only joined about a year ago
And I've been faking it ever since
 
okay, @Sathya even when there were 50 users only?
 
amongst the major changes that I can recall are VTC (initially required only 1 vote), rep on questions(earlier 1upvote on question == 10 rep), downvotes are now free on questions ( earlier it would cost you 1 rep)
@genesis yeah.
today' going to be my 600th day in SO.. even though I wasn't an early joiner by any means
 
@Sathya And how did it look with admin only? He had to notice few people who would "answer"
 
@genesis I'm not sure I understand..
know this: Jeff & Joel have a huge pull on the developer community. Pretty sure it wasn't just 50 days on day 1
 
@Sathya when Jeff ran it up, he was alone here. And tell me: How people started to join? I doubt somebody browsed around empty SO and joined
 
1:52 PM
people have been waiting to join since:
 
Yeah, remember that Jeff and Joel had extremely popular blogs already among programmers. With that many readers, it didn't take long for people to show up.
 
with even 10% of his 115k feedbase you get about 11,500 people.
 
Imagine what things would be like if they'd named the site FelloWhackers.com (codinghorror.com/blog/2008/04/help-name-our-website.html)
 
hehe
they'd probably grab Fellow-Hackers.com :P
 
Well, and their blog... Was popular because it was in early days of programming/web ?
 
1:57 PM
they've been writing for a loong time
 
I see first post near 2004
 
Joel Spolsky's blog (joelonsoftware.com) has been active since at least 2000/2001.
 
aah. And how did people found these blogs? I'm very interested about starting projects, how did they start etc
 
I don't know. Probably slowly at first. They started writing, their friends started reading, they told their friends, and so on. Eventually, the word got around.
And people stuck around because they liked what they saw. The writing was good, the ideas were good, it was a positive experience. Same deal for SO/SE
It's quite rare that big things happen overnight
 
true. in my case, I loved SO since day 1 even though I couldn't answer anything, lol
 
2:05 PM
@Sathya because?
Does anybody here think that's good idea to start with PHP blog in these times?
 
@genesis dunno. Don't you ever get this vibe about something being good? Guess the same
 
I'm not sure what vibe is
 
Nothing wrong with starting a blog
Even if it's small
Writing is an important skill even for programmers
 
But do you think there's chance to be popular in these times? (every fourth blog is about programming I think)
 
Jeff Atwood has been encouraging programmers to start blogs for years. Even if you don't like writing or don't think you're any good at it, blogging can make you better at it.
 
2:10 PM
@genesis vibe == feeling.
@genesis write well & you will stand out.
no matter what it's about.
it'll take time, don't expect progress over a night or even a month
and mostly, don't ever give up.
 
Yeah, agreed. If you think you have something to write about, nothing wrong with writing it.
Even if it never becomes a major success
 
well, thanks @cody I'll read it after I'm back
is it common issue that programmers can't make design & nice looking sites?
@CodyGray ? @Sathya ? Nobody knows?
 
too small a sample size to say anything.
 
It's hard for everyone to design nice looking sites
Not everyone agrees on what looks "nice"
 
I can't speak for others but I suck at design. Or web programming, for that matter.
 
2:18 PM
okay, I mean, that programmers, like me, can't make even easy design in ten minutes
 
I don't think that's weird. Good design is hard for everyone. Ten minutes is a pretty short period of time
 
This is simple but nice design for me php.vrana.cz
it's few lines of CSS. I would do it in like 3 hours ...
 
Nothing wrong with that
 
do you think so?
 
If I had to design a site, I'd probably steal bits and pieces of CSS from other sites I liked
 
2:21 PM
@CodyGray that's what I'm exactly doing
but I'm just waiting for someone's lawyer :p
 
Well that's why you wouldn't steal from only one site. People could copyright their entire design, but not bits and pieces of it.
 
@CodyGray one question ... is my English bad ?
 
Haha that's kind of hard to answer. It's not perfect, but people can certainly understand what you're saying.
 
so this is fine?
 
what is it?
 
2:28 PM
that' my "blog", in 10 minutes, with similar design as php.vrana.cz has
and do I have gramatically mistakes or just ... what aspect of English could I improve?
 
Oh, haha well I never said I was good at design either.
Probably grammar, yes.
Some things sound awkward in English because that's not how a native speaker would say them. And then you have to be careful that you conjugate words correctly depending on what part of speech they are
The same stuff everyone has trouble with in foreign languages. Like me with German. Grrr
 
YES, that's exactly what are people saying to me, too. Somebody told me that "My English isn't bad, but isn't spoken as native speaker would speak"
 
That's totally normal, though. From what people tell me, there are as many exceptions to the rule in English as there are rules.
That makes it pretty hard to sound like a native speaker
 
I hope I'll improve as much as possible to sound like native speaker. I'm still young and I thing I have a lot of time to learn it perfectly
 
Are you learning English in school? Or just on your own?
 
2:35 PM
I'm on second possition in my class though
in school. But we have dumb teacher
 
haha that just happens sometimes
no matter what you're learning!
 
Most of my English practice came from internet, social networks, like warez-bb, SO, blogs, etc
 
I'm not sure if warez-bb are the best place to learn English...
 
yeah...
 
"are" ?
 
2:37 PM
drop by SO chat everyday.
 
It's forum
 
speak to your friends in English, if possible
 
oh. I was assuming that was "warez-bulletin boards" in which case it would be plural and you'd use "are".
shows what I know about it
 
oh, that's warez-bb.org ;)
Probably biggest warez site. But tell me. Why is it so bad idea and SO chat isn't ?
 
From what I've seen in warez forums, the English is pretty bad. But this is the first time I've spent more than 5 minutes in a SO chat
 
2:39 PM
@CodyGray why's that so?
 
It would be good to show some flag near English native speaker :p
so I can see who to learn from
 
@Sathya just not really a chat person. I never really have been. Probably because I'm antisocial in real life too
 
@CodyGray ah. f/e
 
See, that means I don't know all the abbrevs. What does "f/e" mean?
 
I hate these shortcuts :D
 
2:41 PM
@CodyGray sorry that's fair enough
 
Crazy. That wasn't on my list of possibilities. @Sathya You speak English very well though. Did you spend some time in the US?
 
@Sathya isn't native speaker?
Well, I forgot to watch his profile. Sure he isn't
 
@genesis :) I'm not, I'm from India.
@CodyGray Yes, I have. Was in Austin, TX for about a year
 
Yeah you can kind of guess by looking at profiles. But people do move around.
@Sathya Oh really? Why? Did you study here for a semester? (That's where I live)
 
I see (on wiki) that Inidia has English as official language, also with hebrew
 
2:44 PM
@CodyGray was in Austin for a project implementation :)
@genesis we have.. lots of languages but not all are fluent.
where in Austin, if you don't mind?
 
Well, right now I'm home for the summer and we live about 30 minutes north of Austin. But normally I go to the University of Texas, so I live just off campus in downtown Austin.
 
@Sathya: Yes I "have" ? Isn't that "Yes I spent" as you are not in currently?
 
Although I'm primarily a PL/SQL developer, I've had experience with talking to our clients - can't do that unless you have good grip over language.
@genesis it..wouldn't be right grammatically
 
why ?
 
@genesis "I have spent" is correct. I said "Did you spend?" and he said "Yes, I have spent".
 
2:48 PM
@genesis English is a funny language :P
 
and what time dimension is it ??
 
If you didn't have "have" in there, it would be "I spent". The pronoun "I" almost never uses "has", it always uses "have"
 
@CodyGray ah ok. I used to stay at Great Hills
 
@Sathya My aunt and uncle live there; really nice area. I know most of Austin pretty well. I didn't know you were a developer though.
I assumed that you probably weren't since you weren't that active on SO
@genesis It's still past tense.
 
@CodyGray I try my best, but by the time I've formulated an answer, at least 3-4 higher quality answers would have been posted.
@CodyGray yes, I loved that area. Favourite hang out of mine over there was North by North West ;)
 
2:52 PM
@Sathya I never really notice that, and I hang out in the supposedly popular tags. But I guess I'm a pretty fast typist and being a native speaker helps
 
@CodyGray I can type pretty fast but it still takes a bit of time for me to compose a decent answer in my head & then type it out. Something I'm trying to improve.
Also, PL/SQL is a niche topic... and most of the questions are fairly tricky
 
@Sathya That makes sense. I like the tricky niche questions now. I've gotten tired of the same ones over and over. You see a lot of that in .NET/C#...
 
@CodyGray And how would I say "I was there past year and I'm still in" ?
 
"I was there the past year, and I still am"
there are multiple ways to say it, but that's as good as any
 
@genesis "I was at x the past past year, and still am"
 
2:58 PM
@Sathya Isn't it "I have been in Czech Republic" ?
 
I have been to the Czech Republic
or I was at the Czech Republic
 
In the second sentence, it would be "in" rather than "at"
 
right :)
 
(Wow, you can edit in chat? That seems weird... Totally new world for me.)
 
yes, there is a 2 minute time limit though.
 
3:05 PM
But when I say "I opened window", it means that I opened it but it isn't necessary still opened. But when I say "I have opened window", it means that I opened it and it is still opened, or am I wrong? edit :)
 
Yes, that's correct (although you're missing the pronoun "the" before the noun "window").
But "spent" is a different kind of action than "opened".
 
@CodyGray: what do you mean by "different kind" ?
AAh, that's why I thought there isn't "have".
 
I'm not really sure... It's been way too long since I studied English grammar
Actually, I think the key is that "time" is indeterminate. Because you could also say "I have opened a window", and that wouldn't necessarily mean that a window is still opened.
 
But when I say "I have opened the window" it necessary mean that it's still opened
Dammit, it looks like I have to edit every post ...
 
Right, because "the" points to a specific window. "A" does not point to any specific window. Neither does "time".
 
3:13 PM
so "I spent a year in the US" is wrong, but "I have spent a year in the US" is correct, correct?
 
Haha, actually no. Either would be fine.
 
and can that second case that I'm still inside the US ?
 
3
Q: Spent or have spent?

FlavioWhich is grammatically more correct? Thanks everybody for the great 2010 moments we spent together! vs Thanks everybody for the great 2010 moments we've spent together!

by stroke of luck, it appears that exact question has been answered
 
@CodyGray and can that second case that I'm still inside the US ?
 
It could, but it wouldn't necessarily mean that to me if I were reading it.
 
3:16 PM
OKAY, that's what I meant :)
Thanks so much for your time. I like people who like to help me :)
 
Sure, no problem
Definitely ask questions over on English.SE though
 
Most of my English questions ended up as closed/downvoted
 
Really? Hmm.
 
okay, two from seventeen
 
I wouldn't put too much thought into downvotes, and I don't see that many that are closed
 
3:20 PM
so should I ask if "I have spent a year in the US" can mean that I'm still in ?
 
I didn't mean that you should ask this particular question. I just meant in general, that site should be a great resource.
 
yes, it is :)
 
I honestly haven't paid any attention to it. I don't know how people participate in more than 2 of these SE sites
Occasionally I like to get work done, too
 
Me either.
Thanks for your support. I'm going for short ride by bike. Hopefully I'll be as good as you when I'm 22 ;)
 
haha, hopefully so
 
3:23 PM
Do you think it's possible? :p
 
I don't know, I've been speaking English for a long time. When I was a kid I used to read all the time, and that helped me a lot. You learn new words and phrases and stuff like that.
 
You aren't native speaker (Englisman)?
 
Yeah, I am a native speaker. But there's a lot of words you don't hear in everyday language.
 
@genesis I built my English from abysmal in 5th grade to pretty decent in 10th
 
See, and like that. Mistakes that are commonly seen in informal speech, but stuff you'd never see in formal writing. That should be "there are are lot of words", but instead I said "there is". Totally wrong, shame on me.
A lot of native speakers don't know better. An unfortunate number of US high school students fail exit tests that cover simple material like that.
 
3:26 PM
Would always carry a dictionary, refer to it whenever I came across an unknown word. Read lots of newspapers, magazines
 
Thanks for a tip
@Sathya: You have to consider I'm 15
 
10th grade is like 15 to 16, right? I'd say you're pretty decent.
 
@genesis you still have time, you always have time to learn & correct.