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2:52 AM
ptSO election page says: "... 689 visitaram o site durante a eleição, 825 visitaram a página de eleição e 360 votaram". How can the visit count to the election page be higher, and by that much, than the number of visits to the site?
Meanwhile, esSO election has 7 candidates, but the pool is not very deep so far.
Could also be SE's mobile app strategy.
bigown is the Jon Skeet of ptSO: 214K rep, vs 94K for 2nd place user. Also C#.
And VladD on ru.SO: 141K vs 69K for runner-up. Of course, C#.
4:03 AM
@Feeds true :( especially on public WiFis here in my country
Oh, it's about Home WiFi, that's true for my case too though
@Feeds Same with the campus-wide wifi for me.
4:54 AM
is that a samoyed dog?
it looks like a panda, so it must be panda
sure, being a panda bear, why eat bamboo when you can eat steak and ham
5:09 AM
@Feeds because home routers suck and nobody knows how to administer them
"I am a sage novice..." an oxymoron or a deep philosophical statement?
I want to spend the rest of my life annoying you ...
that's what a lion would say to neighbourhood antelopes
I don't actually want to eat you, but it's set that you are my food ...
@Alex someone making stuffing for the first time, asking on Seasoned Advice
checks link
Disappointed again
5:32 AM
Cross Validated is 7 years old today... in the last year, it generated 21,251 answers against 30,335 questions... although this does not mean that the remaining questions deserved an answer to begin with.
Their most viewed question in the last year was, of course, US Election results 2016: What went wrong with prediction models?
Also the first birthday of Monero site. Their most-viewed question is How much CPU power to mine 1 coin a day?... 70K views, not bad. How much CPU power was spent requesting and rendering that question?
26 messages moved to Chimney
5:49 AM
@ShadowWizard correct, questions being HNQ for too long, and too many questions from the same site. As for many upvotes to problematic answers, per my observations this seems to happen too rarely to bother. Side note regarding your estimation of of upsides, it doesn't account for the goal of HNQ (which is to entertain Stack Overflow lemmings). Any change to current system carries a risk of making thousands or maybe even tens thousands of them unhappy, this is not a thing to ignore
...if you want to justify changes based on official purpose of HNQ the only way to make a point seem to be to somehow prove that current way isn't entertaining (eg low on views). Something like that was done in the past when few Workplace regulars made apparently, offensively boring PHP question stick at the top of the list for almost a week. Soon after that SE team introduced shuffling in the listgnat Jun 14 at 21:34
6:10 AM
@Shog9 do you mean that problematic answers in HNQ get unreasonably high score because of upvotes from Stack Overflow passers-by armed by association bonus? Per my observations this happens quite infrequently
Entertainment? At such a serious place? Who would dare?!
heh, as requested @bluefeet @ShadowWizard here is my cat in the background while my dog gives me a high five :)
it is more of an issue that many problematic answers get few sympathy upvotes from SO lemmings. No matter if votes down site regulars put it to -1, -2, -3 etc this is eventually wiped out by pitiful upvotes from lemmings and gets to zero score. This is an issue, yeah, because it breaks automatic protection and 20K delete voting but even then it's usually merely a consequence of question sticking in HNQ for unreasonably long time
@TravisJ looks lazy and of reasonable size ...
@rene - Since he is part ragdoll he always has such interesting positions when he lays down, but since he is part siamese he runs all over the place and meows a bunch too. Between him and the dog he is the alpha, even though he is only 9 lbs
6:27 AM
@TravisJ you have 1 lazy cat
@Telkitty - He does enjoy his leisure, then again, he also seems to enjoy running around meowing in the middle of the night for no freaking reason.
6:46 AM
7:08 AM
@rene whoa, deleted by The @Trav!
ha hah! ;)
@TravisJ ohh cute! So the dog doesn't try to eat the cat after that?
@ShadowWizard - Nope, if she did the cat would probably beat her up up a bit lol (no claws though, he is very gentle, like being hit with a small pillow)
@gnat so if, for example, HNQ will be limited to three days max, you will be happy?
@TravisJ lol... makes sense. How you got to have them both? :)
The cat was rescued from a humane shelter in honolulu, and the dog we got as a puppy when she was only 10 weeks old - the cat was just 1 year old at that time. So they were together from a very young age, and the dog has always had him around.
7:12 AM
Hmm... nice. So you live in honolulu?
I did from '09-'11, so just for 2 years. I am in Santa Barbara now.
I see. So they're both 6-8 years old now?
Yup, somewhere in there
@Trav what did you do in Honolulu back then? Work?
Their birthdays were in May
I went to school there
7:16 AM
I see these days Hawaii Five-O, it's actually just one big advertisement to Hawaii, lol :D
Working in honolulu isn't really an option, the pay is really low for some reason
Yeah, the scenery on that show reminds me a lot of living there.
I was just back there for a bit this month, went to Oahu (honolulu) for 3 days and then Maui for 7.
@TravisJ huh.... no school where you lived before that?!
@TravisJ yup, well, the places are probably real, they just don't show the "less good" sides, obviously. :)
Well, with the whole economic turmoil, the UC (University of California) system lost its ability to issue student loans, and as a result the schools took only a tenth of their normal student applicants that year.
So when presented with going out of state, Hawaii seemed like the natural choice as opposed to inland :)
oh wait.... "school" you mean univercity? I'm used to "school" meaning elementary or high school, so assumed you meant highschool. (making you in your mid 20's now ;))
Yeah University, for Computer Science. Although since I had already completed so much at UC, it only took me a year and a half to complete there
7:22 AM
@TravisJ nice... I also learned in two universities, one year in the first then moved to another one. Though since I didn't really do well in that year, it didn't count. :/
I got forced around by geopolitics =/ shakes fist I had a 3.6
@ShadowWizard based on what I see in SO questions in HNQ (which almost always drop off after just several hours) this probably wouldn't hurt. Though I can't see how this could address another issue you mentioned, "too many questions from the same site" (you sure remember, trolls in our halls:)
Are people gaming the HNQ system? It seems like some of the metrics involved are for the most part organically generated.
@gnat hehe, indeed. So suppose two requests are done: Each site can have maximum of 4 hot questions at any moment, and each question can be hot only maximum three days.... will this "fix" the concept of hot questions as you see it?
@TravisJ probably, what I see often is "catchy" titles being used.
@TravisJ what's 3.6? Think we have very different grade system... :/
A: Why was this question about handling the fallout of a crass joke deleted?

Shog9I left a comment on the question when I deleted it, but I'll elaborate here... The moderators caught wind of a group of sockpuppets operating on the site, and asked me to investigate. It quickly became apparent that several questions asked within the past few weeks had all been created by the sa...

^^^ yes, people are gaming HNQ. I did something like that myself a few years ago with a bunch of TWP regulars
7:34 AM
@gnat lol thanks for the upvote, you found different question while searching for the "Trolls in our Halls"? lol :D
Abuse should definitely be handled on a case by case basis, but it should be being taken care of I would assume.
@ShadowWizard max 4 questions seems closer to it
@gnat well that's extreme... there was also one case of spam reaching HNQ, I think, using sock puppet ring.
(Or just pure trolling)
@ShadowWizard In the US, our grading is based on percents and letters. 59% or less: F, 60-69: D (1.0), 70-79: C (2.0), 80-89: B (3.0), 90-100 A (4.0). There are also +-, x0 - x3: -, x4-x6: even, x7-x9 +. So, a 3.6 is an average A-, or roughly 90-93%.
@TravisJ so ultra complicated... almost like your voting for president system.... lol
Here it's just numbers. 0-100.
0 means you didn't do anything at all, e.g. submitted blank page, 100 means you did perfectly. That is it. :)
7:40 AM
Hey, I didn't invent the grading system, or the electoral college :P
Why making it so complicated???
@ShadowWizard well the question was are people doing this, not how frequently this happens. Wrt how frequently I don't have data but it is hard to imagine it happening regularly. For people to regularly abuse some feature there should be some benefit, but it is difficult to figure a benefit of a feature which only purpose is to entertain Stack Overflow lemmings
So 3.6 is 80-89? That's not bad.... @Trav
A 3.0 is 85, 3.3 is 87, 3.6 is 90
I have no clue why they came up with this grading system to be honest.
If you asked me it should all be done on the ELO system like chess lol
@gnat lol, you really love that word. but you have a point...
7:43 AM
What are you rated? What is this homework rated? We will try to pair you with homework that matches your rating :)
@TravisJ so 90 is good.... why shaking fist?
Oh, I shook fist at the geopolitical stuff forcing me to move states
I generally did good in school by always trying to stay two weeks ahead of the classes I was in. It worked well as a strategy.
Well, good thing you had money to do all of this.... guess many who don't have, just ends up without degree. :(
Heh, not then :( that is why we were forced to move. Literally lived in the ghetto, and went to school on a federal loan
@ShadowWizard frankly I don't love this word (would prefer something less confrontational). But the more I observe this behavior the more it seems like this is the only fit...
in The Water Cooler on The Stack Exchange Network Chat, Jun 29 at 13:25, by gnat
@Lilienthal funny to see how chatty comments keep piling on even after clear, detailed and upvoted 11 times mod message explaining that this is not the way to go. There are already 3 of them (and I saw 2 more deleted by flags). And guess what? every one of these "helpful" commenters that are there now has got their "fair" association bonus from Stack Overflow. Probably along with the habits to ignore everything that was written to them. Lemmings indeed...
7:46 AM
Q: Can the recidivism system be applied to comments?

Travis JPosting comments, like posting questions, should be seen as a consumable resource that can in fact be depleted. Some Background There has been a lot of meta discussion lately regarding moderating comments. For example, the +1/-1 debates, the reworking of comment flags. Issues with comment flags...

Always getting your comments deleted? How about a throttled comment ban? :D
@TravisJ won't help in HNQ (though yeah, generally good idea). No matter how many lemmings you throttle there will be tens or hundreds more standing in line to dump their ohh so valuable bits of wisdom. "Have a textbox - will type"...
Q: Can we get a comments only lock?

yannisCurrently moderators have the ability to lock posts, for any of the following reasons: Content dispute (~ edit wars), Historical significance (to prevent great but off topic questions from being deleted), and Offtopic comments The locks can be applied for an hour, a day, a week, or permanentl...

eh, can we not call people lemmongs? Seems impolite
@JourneymanGeek it is about 1000th time I hear that. "frankly I don't love this word (would prefer something less confrontational)"
has textbox - will type
@gnat so another sensible feature request is requiring users to have 10 rep on the site in order to post comments on hot question.
7:54 AM
It is a textarea... shheesh
That seems easy enough @ShadowWizard, although 5 edits seems a little easy to do. How about 20 rep?
> A lemming is a small rodent usually found in or near the Arctic in tundra biomes. Lemmings are subnivean animals. They make up the subfamily Arvicolinae (also known as Microtinae) together with voles and muskrats, which forms part of the superfamily Muroidea, which also includes rats, mice, hamsters, and gerbils.
how about "multiple Stack Overflow users armed by association bonus having no idea about norms at the site they arrived to and not worrying about it, only willing to keep entertained in a way that they used to, that is posting useless repetitive answers and comments and dumping their upvotes at everything that seems entertaining to them". Not lemmings, yeah
Doesn't sound that bad, @Journeyman ^^
@TravisJ nah, 10 or even less when I think about it. 5 might do too IMO.
So 30?
The problem is with those who didn't take part at all on the site they visit.
7:57 AM
@ShadowWizard might be technically difficult for system to automatically detect when question is hot
@TravisJ you're good at bargain.... :D
@gnat that is true, but I talk about ideal world... :)
@TravisJ xD
@ShadowWizard in ideal world system would simply delay granting association bonus until at least after 2-3 days visited at smaller graduated sites (was easy to find this because it's my most downvoted feature request)
8:02 AM
@gnat so... a lot of people agree ;)
@JourneymanGeek guess what, I also agree ;)
I mean, I agree you feel its a problem. Using language like that de-emphasises the problem and causes people to act... somewhat emotively
@JourneymanGeek oh that. Not a problem to me at all. No matter how people act or feel about this, it ain't gonna change anything, because nothing will be done. In that sense I don't care. Whether the problem is deemphasized or emphasized, nothing will change...
consider giving a read to an article that laid down the way how things work over here: Listen to Your Community, But Don't Let Them Tell You What to Do. The second part ("Don't Let Them Tell You What to Do") seems to be followed almost religiously — gnat 15 hours ago
8:06 AM
and tbf, I've occationally found sites I engage in (sometimes!) via HNQ
> 90% of all community feedback is crap
Very first point he made
(we are part of the community)
@JourneymanGeek currently, "Don't Let Them Tell You What to Do" seems to be applied to 100% of it, not 90%. I somehow learned to live with that
and on that note, I am going to bed for the night, have to get my car worked on tomorrow
ehh. I've had decent luck with bug reports. I have a feeling they don't really want to futz with core stuff too much since QA is a matureish product, people get grumpy, and it probably feeds people into the revenue sources...
8:25 AM
@TravisJ sleep tight!
3 hours later…
11:21 AM
8 messages moved to Chimney
11:37 AM
@TravisJ adorable
12:17 PM
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword in body, bad keyword in title, blacklisted website in body, pattern-matching product name in body, pattern-matching website in body: Endovex male enhancement by moni stivin on graphicdesign.SE
2 hours later…
for some reasons I read 'patents' as 'parents'
I hope someone works out what that picture means, rofl :p
You cooked your parents into steaks?
2:53 PM
I have never seen what human flesh look like when cut up but it probably doesn't look like this. Here is a hint to my original question.
Seared Tuna
spot on
3:21 PM
quietly gets out
@Inc. over human flesh?
4:03 PM
Down to 10 candidates: Raghav Sood withdrew.
Really? Seemed he had plenty of support?
But those comments were deleted, so...
On the subject Alex mentioned, I was wondering if it made sense to edit my Questionnaire post to a withdrawal statement for the next 24 hours and then delete it, or just delete it outright
Ssssst, he's here .... don't mention the thing ... you know ...
If you feel like making a statement, you could. If it doesn't add anything, meh.
> Based on the discussions in the comment, I have decided to withdraw from the election this year.

While I do feel that I would be a good moderator for Stack Overflow, I have realized that I have not been a major part of the community in recent times. Looking at the facts as they stand, I felt that I would not reliably vote for myself as an unbiased voter.

I will instead be taking some time to participate more actively, both in terms of content and reviews.

I want to thank all those who pointed out my shortcomings, as well as those who supported me for this run.
4:07 PM
Looks good to me
"in the commentS"
but other than that it's fine
Whoops, I'll fix that bit
It was a bit of a mixed reception indeed. You had both supporters and users with critique ...
Indeed. Reflecting on the other elections I've stood for, I definitely agree with those who criticised me this time. When I ran previously, I was far more active across the board. Definitely need to get back to a high level of participation if I want to do the moderator position justice in the event of being elected.
@RaghavSood - I don't think that all voters would have that concern, and I do appreciate more qualified candidates, not fewer.
4:14 PM
Sure. I don't doubt that I would still get votes if I stayed in, but I do feel that there are more than 2 other candidates who are currently more in-tune with the Stack Overflow community and more active than I am. I feel they would be a better fit at the moment
Other voters might not agree with you. You have already put yourself out there as a candidate. If you think you can't do it, that's a reasonable reason to withdraw, but I don't like you withdrawing just because of some critical comments.
@RaghavSood if the stats show you're low in numbers it is kind of hard to argue against that unless they picked Jon Skeet or Martijn Pieters as a reference, which I think wasn't the case here.
Fully agree, I'm not arguing with the stats presented in the meta comments. Fully admit that my numbers are low, lower than most 20k+ active users would have in all probability
@RaghavSood what was your candidate score (?/40)?
39, iirc
4:17 PM
That's really strong, and I'd like to see more strong candidates...
You'll always have the critics. But mods are human exception handlers elected by the community. You've already put in the effort and paid your dues. Withdrawing is a little wishy-washy, but I think you should forget about the critics and do it.
@AaronHall One can have 40/40 based on one's activity in, say, 2010-2014. Doesn't make one a strong candidate in 2017.
My score was 39 in 2015 too, which is kind of my issue here. Even without active participation, I'm a strong candidate score-wise. Which is also why I feel I should withdraw, spend time being active, and run again in the next election
Arguably a flaw in CS calculation, but one that's not easy to fix.
well, I won't brow-beat you into running if you don't want to, but I'm disappointed that I won't get you as a choice.
I'm willing to deal with critics, I've had them in all three of my previous runs as well. I just personally feel that I've been largely inactive for too long, and may not be the best fit at this point
Don't get me wrong, I really, really appreciate your support, and will definitely be running again in the future
4:22 PM
@Alex I think we should let the voters decide. I don't like having fewer choices.
There is kind of pre-voting now on the meta-questionaire. Voters are already deciding. If you want to counter that effect you should propose to disable comments on both the nominations and the Q/A, which doesn't seem feasible.
Raghav may or may not be in my top 2. But I'd rather him have a chance of being elected in the case that either or both of my top 2 aren't selected.
I see your point @AaronHall but I would personally only persuade nominees to stay in the race if the critique is unjustified which did happen IMO in earlier elections. In the case of Raghav I think he makes the right call based on the feedback he received. But you're free on having a different opinion.
@rene I appreciate your personal opinion - but we have tens of thousands of users that will vote - and you're encouraging them to have relatively fewer qualified options.
If a user feels they may not be the best fit, what's the point in having other decide that they are? Not a great start to a mod position if you're thinking "you know what, I may not be up to this right now".
4:37 PM
Maybe, or maybe he's just letting a few opinionated meta users brow-beat him into withdrawing.
Still up to him to make that decision
Quite true, but I've offered a decent rebuttal here, and I still hope he changes his mind.
4:56 PM
> manually raising 3k helpful flags
to counter the Mod bots I guess ...
Yes, and one nomination says "no auto flags". Inflation.
"Artisanal, hand crafted, locally sourced flags"
Q: area 51 not safe

ItamarG3Area 51 gave me this: which is weird, since I got there by navigating to a user's profile (which was also "unsafe"), then edited the url (to the one in the above image). some info that might be useful: does the freehand circle say it all?

Well duh
That's why it's called Area51
5:13 PM
Suppose I wanted to calculate the stats in that candidates chart based on the last three years only. What would be possible?
Reviews and edits from SEDE.
Not votes, and no CS of course.
@Alex do you need badges?
@Alex CS?
There are so many CS abbreviations. I am confused
Badges are needed for CS (candidate score) but most of them are earned once, so you can't blame the candidates for not earning them recently.
5:22 PM
I suppose I could pull those for this election in theory but I don't really feel like it. If I have time though I can do it.
css-tricks.com makes me laugh. The articles are generally awesome, but the site is so mind-bendingly ugly.
When I view it I have to zoom out 50%, triple the content column width, and double the font size just to see it.
It's like that ^, but for web sites.
5:42 PM
old person detected
#11 vaultah
But the questionnaire answer doesn't seem to be doing well
I don't really like that part of the process. I'd rather candidates put a link with answers on their blog or whatever. (Hey, free blog traffic)
Although comments under responses are sometimes relevant.
5:49 PM
@Alex well, I voiced some concern during SU's last election but it almost got interpreted as not wanting David to be elected
What if candidates were directed to post their questionnaire answers as a meta Q instead, that would be locked against votes and comments (directly under question). Still leaves room for reasoned criticism in answers and comments under answers.
It's undeniable that earlier posting nominees get an advantage
@Alex that's a pretty good idea
Questionnaire votes are of dubious value to the process.
It's especially good because it doesn't change the current system
So no dev time, just some trivial mod work
On the plus side, hopefully Andy will do it this time.
How many election candidates were appointed when they had already ran in previous elections @Alex? Might be a fun stats to gather
@M.A.R. 17 by my count (on SO only). The list of mods for whom it took more than one try:
6:00 PM
Madara Uchiha	4
Andrew Barber	3
Brad Larson	3
Flexo	3
George Stocker	3
Jeremy Banks	3
Jon Clements	3
Ryan	3
Undo	3
deceze	3
Ed Cottrell	2
Matt	2
animuson	2
bluefeet	2
casperOne	2
jjnguy	2
meagar	2
I wonder if I should try to guess who will win...
I can't use tabs, but that's okay because I prefer to be well-paid.
@AaronHall We don't know the entire pool yet.
As it stands, I'd go with Andy and NathanOliver.
But there are more strong candidates than we can possibly elect at once.
6:04 PM
@Alex wow, more than I expected
@Alex wow, I didn't realize that
Martijn only needed one though :D
The only user who ran more than 4 times is slugster: 7 attempts, no luck. (By now we are well aware how important good luck is for candidates.)
I wonder if slugster will run again.
Ran in elections 1-7 but not in 8. This is #9. Who knows if 8 was a break or retirement...
6:33 PM
After I started using reputation filter, not only is the question list easier on the eyes, but also my answers get upvoted and accepted more frequently. \o/
@Alex yay, sounds like a happy customer
Wait a minute, are you working for reputation filterz co?
Flagging as spam
Hello @tripleee
Grr. I'm in a coffee shop now, which is a bad place to hit 404 page on Stack Apps.
At least it's not at a university cafeteria.
7:06 PM
sd k
A: Introducing: Channels - Q&A For Engineering Teams

canonWhen it comes to supporting engineering teams, is SO's focus too narrow? Is there any intention of offering other SE sites through channels, e.g.: https://serverfault.com https://dba.stackexchange.com ... or are we expecting to lump all that content under the SO channel since we can't really ...

Man, I'm so glad that post is on meta.SO rather than meta.SE so my rep can't get tanked.
is there a history of user aliases somewhere in the ui?
7:26 PM
@canon only for mods
there are some SEDE queries that can help you reconstruct former names
@rene figured. Thanks.
I was just looking at this post and wondered if Ryan was once minitech (iirc).
@canon yes
@Inc. "Is it rude to abide by the law because someone else is too impatient to do the same?"
7:58 PM
Ergh, HNQ spoils Google Result... searching for "com.appstart.AppStart" returns totally unrelated SE posts.
@Inc. I wonder if it would affect google crawling/parsing if HNQ were rendered in an <aside> tag.
There's already a question for that: Preventing robots from crawling specific part of a page
That question predates HTML5. Still, I'm no expert on the black magic cultist rituals performed by googlebot.
I'm pretty sure it involves a blood sacrifice on the altar of SEO.
googlebots are like Google's clergy. They go out, spread the good word, collect your tithes... and see if those offerings please The Google. And if displeased by your offering, excommunication.
8:38 PM
#12 MZaragoza, not much to say
@Alex nope, I left a comment ...
I see we're now registering a protest on down votes ...
8:54 PM
@rene ?
@canon meta
meta effect (there) + chat effect (here)
9:40 PM
A: Barbell says 20kg on each side. Am I lifting 20 or 40kg?

rickIf you are a dumbbell, then you are lifting 40, else 20.

Is it rude to say someone is a dumbbell?
@Alex That's not spam, just NAA.
Our am I too harsh there?
10:13 PM
This Friday evening 8PM EDT ( 00:00 UTC) we will migrate all services back to our primary data center http://stackstatus.net/post/163188390264/data-center-failback-july-21-2017
10:39 PM
Saw this today and was confused... 55 apartments? Or the adults are 55+? Are adults active, or their apartments?
10:57 PM

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