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user315433

2:25 AM

yawn spammer here if anyone's interested: stackoverflow.com/users/8202857/mocikun?tab=topactivity

user315433

3:00 AM

sd 2k

user315433

Same username I mentioned earlier (stackoverflow.com/users/8202857/mocikun?tab=topactivity), same brorsoft stuff, now on SU. Separate accounts though.

user315433

Personal Productivity is 6 years old. It's still not a very productive site - their top question of last year has merely 645 views, and most of those are probably HNQ. How do I focus from the distraction of beautiful people?

user202362

3:46 AM

How do I focus from the distraction of ~~beautiful~~ cute cats/dogs?

user315433

4:23 AM

sigh Interpersonal Skills are at 100%

user202362

4:39 AM

no need to sign, no one outside SE knows who you are, we all thought you were just a bot

user202362

although as a bot, this is a better profile picture

Elephant

5:16 AM

@Telkitty doll ≠ bot

Derpy

8:21 AM

@Elephant this one?

Elephant

that's a robot in form of doll. Still, doll ≠ bot, otherwise it's a robot in form of.. robot (duh).

rene

8:55 AM

delv-pls 20K code meta.stackexchange.com/questions/297527/… /cc @ShadowWizard @Bart @Tra

→ 7 messages moved to Chimney

→ 9 messages moved to Chimney

Elephant

10:44 AM

I wrote "it's impossible to revert the chat back to comment" without confirming it, but is it true?

Oded

11:11 AM

@Elephant you mean the "move comments to chat", only the other way around?

So people adding stuff to that chat room can get the new messages as comments in the post?

Elephant

@Oded basically, after a mod using "move comments to chat", is it possible to move those back to comment thread once again? Or to put it simply, undo the process?

Oded

No.

Longer answer - a mod can delete the room and undelete all the comments, but that's not exactly the same thing.

Bart

If that happens to you, just copy the comments from the chat, and post them again under the post. </evil>

Elephant

11:26 AM

Ah, I just realized the comments are copied to the chat then deleted. So basically it's possible to do that (same end result).

Though I believe it's a rare case to happen, considering comment is 2nd-class citizen, ephemeral, etc.

Thanks, it's just someone posted a comment: requesting the mod to move the comment in the chat back to comment thread because it's useful (which I don't see it as a valid argument to do that)

Oded

Yeah, that's not a good argument. If it is useful, roll it into the post.

Journeyman Geek

11:51 AM

@Elephant you could undelete the comments, delete the move notice, nuke the room. But whhhhyyyyy?

There's no situation I can think of where someone would bother

Elephant

12:03 PM

@JourneymanGeek because someone is wrong on the internet :)

Journeyman Geek

0_0

zat question

user315433

12:29 PM

> Can you please do the needful for the same?

user315433

Okay, downvoted per OP's request.

user315433

12:57 PM

Today is the second birthday of one of the least necessary SE sites: Open Source. Top question of last year: How can cheating be prevented in a FLOSS multiplayer game?

user315433

Also, the 2nd anniversary of Network Engineering graduation. Their top post-graduation question: TCPDump - Filter by MAC Address

user202362

I feel like orange juice, but I want sweet orange juice and the last orange from the bunch was really sour

user202362

I don't want to add sugar

user315433

> If I could turn back time, I would upvote every stackexchange question and answer that I found to be useful. -- roy at 4:07 AM - 23 Jun 2017 #deathbedregrets

Derpy

"@angular/common": "latest",
"@angular/compiler": "latest",
"@angular/core": "latest",
"@angular/platform-bowser": "latest",
"@angular/platform-mario": "latest"

user315433

1:18 PM

> Thats why I like the automated connection between Slack and Stackoverflow a lot, since it gives you quick discussions and searchable results -- Jo Hasenau at 4:29 AM - 23 Jun 2017

user315433

Didn't know this was a thing.

user315433

6

Q: On Detecting the Non-Wisdom of Crowds

Sometimes, organizations don't communicate very well internally. Over the years, we've found this to be particularly true when it comes to large software companies working on the same project, or university students working on (at least) similar long-term assignments. What happens is we end up w...

user315433

What is this even

Elephant

10 minutes and no comments, everyone just voted and nobody had clues

user315433

> What probably isn't a good candidate question to show someone that's poking through a tag feed looking for things to answer

user315433

1:24 PM

followed by

user315433

> We won't be using the data this system collects to alter how questions are shown on the site in the near or immediate future as far as we know.

user315433

Well, my DV is first. Unclear and not useful.

user315433

Meaning the announcement, not the project itself (about which hardly anything can be inferred from this post).

Elephant

I'm more excited in waiting for the Project Reduplication of Deduplication's paper

cazc_941

Rockwell - Detroit (Original Mix)

►

Today's Listening

Andy

1:38 PM

@Elephant Agreed. I'm looking forward to that too

As of a month ago, it was under review

user315433

1:52 PM

Starting with the title... I'd get more from "Likely duplicates will be automatically flagged for review" than from "On Detecting the Non-Wisdom of Crowds"

user315433

Advice given to me once: when the title of your paper begins with "On", think of another title.

Elephant

OnClickListener()

user202362

void setOnCreateContextMenuListener (View.OnCreateContextMenuListener l)
void setOnDragListener (View.OnDragListener l)
void setOnFocusChangeListener (View.OnFocusChangeListener l)

user202362

thanks android documentation, I shall use 'l' as parameter names more often from now </trollololo>

user315433

As for repeated homework questions, the joke is on those answering them. The rest should learn to DV at sight, which takes far less time than reviewing possible duplicates.

Elephant

1:55 PM

Repeated as in "moving goal post by same user" or "same task, same question by many users"?

user315433

The latter one.

user315433

Printing shape X with character Y in language Z, for example.

Feeds

2:44 PM

The hardest refresh requires both a Mac keyboard and a Windows keyboard as a security measure, like how missile launch systems require two keys to be turned at once.

user202362

hardest reset - you mean ... get a huge flat brick/rock/concrete slab and put it on your keyboard to reset

Jason C

4:35 PM

→ 10 messages moved to Chimney

Aaron Hall

8:30 PM

I hear there's a happy hour?

rene

9:03 PM

A lot of hours are happy ...

bjb568

9:15 PM

But this hour is.

user202362

9:55 PM

2

Shog9

I'm getting pissed off waiting for happy hour

user202362

don't wait for happiness, chase after it!

user202362

sounds like a marketing line

Shadow Wizard

10:35 PM

If there's no message during Happy Hour, will it still be Happy Hour?

@Feeds now I finally know the reason for Scroll Lock. Thank you!

It's a Trojan Horse planted in the past.

0.00000000000000000000000000001% of the people are using it (that is, the single person using it is the one who invented it), yet it exists in all standard keyboards.

Shog9

11:07 PM

oh hey, it's the @ShadowWizard

I feel like there was something I was gonna respond to you about

but, it's been a busy week

and I've been sober

so lemme do a search...

Aha!

Indeed, this is a happy hour

yesterday, by Shadow Wizard

@Guero but he's acting as the Voice of the Management, attends all the important meeting, and in there represents us, the community members. e.g. "Hey Shog, what the community thinks of the new top bar?" so he can say "You need to change that review icon to text so that people will review again". That's what I meant, that he doesn't need confirmation from us.

This is one of my favorite topics...

...because I get to link to this post:

182

A: Can we talk about the voting culture here on Meta?

So I've been kinda chewing on this since your email, because... It's one of those simple questions that defies a simple answer. You're not the only person to raise this concern, of course: several respected users, moderators and even co-workers have expressed dismay upon seeing reasonable questio...

That's straight talk, y'all

if I could choose my job title here, it'd be Tom Smykowski

My job - the job of a CM - is to act as the representative of both the company, and of the community

and if you think about that for a half-sec, you'll come up with some kinda uncomfortable implications...

...but that'd be crazy, so you probably don't.

Most folks don't.

See, fact of the matter is... Company doesn't necessarily want to hear what community has to say. And Community doesn't necessarily want to hear what company has to say. Both want to hear what they want to hear, and if the other party keeps quiet or speaks vaguely enough they can pretend they've heard it & be happy.

So if I wanna make folks happy, all I have to do is say nothing.

...that doesn't get anything done though.

Journeyman Geek

which eventually pisses everyone off ;p

(hi!)

Shog9

Hi! Welcome to Happy Hour

So what if I wanna get something done? Something the Company wants done, or something the Community wants done. Well, that means Persuading a Large, Critical Audience.

You can read my theories on accomplishing that in the post I linked to above

but here's the tl;dr: it never involves stamping my foot & saying "this gotta happen!"

you gotta have an argument. A problem. A relatable problem, and a plausible solution. Ideally, a plausible cheap solution.

Ideally, a plausible, cheap, and attractive solution.

...for the review thing, I've got maaaaybe two out of three.

Good ol' canon came up with a nice attractive solution, so now maybe I have three.

...we'll see...

but wait, there's more!

see, we got a bit of a problem right now when it comes to getting stuff done in Q&A: see, we got three hundred-some people working here, and they gotta eat. Which means, we gotta stop dicking around and make some money. Or, as our fearless CTO put it,

I appreciate that there are a lot of issues on Stack Overflow that need to be addressed, and maybe we haven't been responding to them as quickly as we should. But Stack Overflow Q&A is a big, established product, most of the problems left are hard, and we can't let maintenance become the only thing we work on or we'll just slowly run out of money and go out of business. We are trying to both maintain Q&A and solve new problems for developers and reach new audiences. The latter is hard, and maybe we'll fail on a lot of our ideas, but we're not going to stop trying. — David Fullerton ♦ May 17 at 21:10

Now, there are literally millions of people visiting Stack Overflow. Hundreds of thousands of people doing stuff on Stack Overflow. And a few thousand people reviewing.

So it's not just enough to say, "review is broken" - first I gotta make a compelling argument for why review even matters

That is, why - if it's broken - we shouldn't just shut it all down & save everyone a lot of time.

Fortunately, I've spent a bit of time thinking about this:

177

Q: Stack Overflow is not yet a vast wasteland: a history of moderator tooling

Warning: this is long, rambling and extremely boring. I'm writing it because I tend to get a lot of questions regarding the rationale for changes to the moderator tooling on SO, and I'm hoping to have something to point to next time. If you already know all there is to know about this - or just d...

discussion review flags

(hey, I don't write pages of crap so that I can not link to it)

Journeyman Geek

11:23 PM

As a mod on one of your sites, that's kind of the point of meta posts ;)

Shog9

So now hopefully I can go into these meetings well-prepared: evidence of a problem, evidence of need, and a cheap, plausibly-effective, attractive solution.

And, hopefully this Happy Rant answers your question, @ShadowWizard.

bjb568

Yay, I liked the Happy Rant.

3

Jon Ericson

11:43 PM

@Shog9 <devil's advocate> Since the close vote review queue is an order of magnitude larger than all the rest combined, maybe we could just ditch that one. (See also:

89

Q: Thought experiment: What would happen if we didn't have close votes?

After reading "My Love-Hate Relationship with Stack Overflow: Arthur S., Arthur T., and the Soup Nazi" one of our developers wondered what would happen if we didn't have close votes. Disclaimer: I don't know of any actual plans to actually get rid of close votes. Like legalizing marijuana, a chan...

discussion vote-to-close

Shog9

@JonEricson quite honestly, we could take the literal interpretation of that & just give badge-holders insta-close / insta-reopen votes, combine it with delete-voting on any downvoted question, and probably get more done with less effort.

Delete-voting wasn't really... fleshed out... when closing as it now exists was implemented; I kinda suspect all this would've worked differently if it had been.

closing plays two very different roles: the Check & Balance to voting for questions that are popular but problematic in some way (dup, off-topic) and the Only Avenue for Community Moderation on any answered post that's just... bad.

And because of that dichotomy, every decision has to break in favor of either one or the other: the former demands pomp and ceremony, the latter demands efficiency, and so we have an overwrough process applied to questions no one particularly wants to look at.

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