00:00 - 20:0020:00 - 00:00

user315433
12:04 AM
Meta.UX has weird user experience when it comes to looking for moderator history. Some posts are closed, like Moderator Pro Tem Announcement and Community Moderator Election. And I can't find any post with 2012 election result... was it deleted?

12:14 AM
I forget when I started posting those, but chances are it wasn't spring of 2012

user315433
Indeed... in 2011, WPSE had an unofficial post Congratulations to our (semi-)new overlords! but no official one. And UX has nothing... didn't even say goodbye/thanks to pro tem mods.

user315433
Of which they apparently had 4 at the time of election, with only 1 re-elected.

user315433
12:47 AM
0

The problem There are a huge number of noisy comments, and they generate a huge number of flags. But, a large number of flags are raised on comments where they won't do very much good: if there's only a few comments on a post, removing one of them doesn't make an appreciable dent in the noise. ...

user315433
I dunno. If the goal is to let mods focus, giving them a way to sort flags by some "Priority Score", like = (views of the post)/1000 + (number of comments on the post), would be better. Of course I don't know what the queue looks like.

user315433
1:06 AM
One semi-smarky comment under a frequently googled question is probably worth addressing... and anonymous visitors don't flag.

1:28 AM
@Shog9 2nd snapper got a shitload of lemon pepper, salt, and spice rack thyme, fried in butter. So much better.

@JasonC yeah :)

1:48 AM

2:14 AM
@Shog9 You guys should just completely drop obsolete and chatty out of the comment dialog. Obsolete isn't really anything anybody cares about, and chatty that's serious enough to flag falls under non-constructive.

@JasonC you must not've read the answers on the other meta post

You mean the one you linked to in huge text?

yeah, that one

Sure I did. And... you guys should just completely drop the obsolete and chatty out of the comment dialog. You wanted to drop nc.

I knew I should've put a big flashing arrow pointing to it
@JasonC Oh, NC has to die. There's zero consistency, on any site.
you can kinda see a difference between obs & chatty if you get lucky and squint
NC is just... everything

2:19 AM
That's the nature of the beast, though... tons of people make comments, tons of people read comments, tons of people feel differently about different comments. There's no way to make it not suck.
Aside from getting rid of comments altogether.

Which I still feel is the right idea
That is, make 'em obnoxiously temporary
But... That idea is DOA

Heh

There's a bunch of stuff like that, that'd have been real nice to implement in, say, 2010. Before we had 5 year old questions with no answers and +50 comments.

I wonder what would happen if you dropped chatty, kept obsolete, and changed nc to "argumentative".

it'd get used for everything
That's why I want to start by stripping this down

2:24 AM
Well I mean

first thing folks'll do is, they'll go looking for a direct replacement for whatever their favorite flag was
and then use that for whatever they were using the old one for

If somebody wants to flag a comment they're going to click the flag. At that point I imagine they're committed. The reasons are irrelevant. If you strip it down then they'll still get misused.

we ran into this problem with close reasons
"I want Too Localized. What's the new Too Localized?"

I really miss "does not have a clear understanding of the problem", lol.

@JasonC yeah, we were talking about that earlier... The big failing of custom close reasons was not having titles. So folks just remembered some word out of the first sentence.

2:26 AM
It was hilariously misapplied.

That was supposed to be the "too broad homework" OT reason, but I'd guess no one who remembers it fondly actually knew that.

But close reasons still get misused all the time. It doesn't matter if the reason you want isn't there. Comments will be even worse. It doesn't matter if you change the wording.
Lol...
The two comments on stackoverflow.com/a/30152903/616460 are polar opposites of eachother. It's kind of funny.

user315433
@SmokeDetector Ugh, the 404 page of Software Recs is so ugly.

2:47 AM
@JasonC sure. And quite honestly, there are plenty of questions where enumerating all of the problems would be a good hour's work, so expecting a short list to cover it...
...But if we can get reasonably decent categorization for the common cases, we can do fun stuff like alter the processing for different close reasons, or drop out reasons that aren't getting used or are being misunderstood. And so it's worth aiming for.

user315433
What if... noise-type flags acted like downvotes. A comment with negative score (upvotes - flags) would be hidden by default, displayed only if show more is clicked.

user315433
So they'd still have some effect, instead of just being sent to /dev/null until another one comes.

user202362
3:01 AM

user202362
3:27 AM
World Toilet Day (WTD) is a campaign to motivate and mobilize millions around the world on issues of sanitation. Originally established by the World Toilet Organization in 2001, this day to draw attention to global sanitation issues is marked each year on 19 November. Since 2001, World Toilet Day has grown in scope and recognition by global partners. In 2013, the United Nations (UN) passed a resolution recognizing WTD as an official UN international day (UN Resolution A/67/L.75). == Background == It was estimated in 2015 that 2.4 billion (about 1 out of 3 people) lack access to improved sanitation...

@NormalHuman I don't want other user's flags hiding comments from me unless a mod has a say in it. It could hide it for just the flagger, though. That's not an unusual thing to do.
@Telkitty Lol I kept misreading that as "word toilet".

user202362
I wonder how many great ideas came out while sitting on a toilet seat, statistically people do spend a lot of times doing their business in the toilets

I dunno. Personally I'm usually pretty focused on the job at hand. I do all my thinking in the shower, lol.
@Shog9 Get rid of everything but spam and custom for a few months and see what comes out.
It would be fun.

3:43 AM
there's actually no spam flag for comments...
If you mean post comments too, well, we pretty much had that for the first... 6 months or so...?

Yeah I don't know why I keep inserting one in my head. Too much smoke detector.

spam + offensive + other
so, we used spam and offensive for everything
I mean, what is asking a question if not spamming us with your problems?
it works, if you squint

Let's try this again but with thinky brain turned on.
@Shog9 Get rid of everything but custom on comments for a few months and see what comes out.
It would be fun.

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Pattern-matching website in answer: Coconut sugar flavor by fodil kouil on cooking.SE

@Telkitty I had no idea this was so official.
There's a World Toilet Organization, a UN resolution and everything.
This article lists articles about notable observed commemorative days used by various governments, groups and organizations to raise awareness of an issue, commemorate a group or event, or celebrate something. == January == Plough Monday – first Monday after Epiphany Handsel Monday – first Monday of January Martin Luther King, Jr. Day – third Monday of January New Year – January 1 Polar Bear Swim Day – January 1 Public Domain Day - January 1 Myanmar Independence Day – January 4 Pravasi Bharatiya Divas (Non-resident Indian Day) – January 9 National Youth Day (India) – January 12 Indian Army Day...

user315433
3:54 AM

@NormalHuman Not the noise type ones.

honestly, we went down that road - hiding comments based on [something] - a few years back. Wasted like three months on it. Got nowhere.
I've accomplished more in an afternoon with a script or a few minutes and a regex.
Came to light this evening that Andy is responsible for like a quarter of all "noise" flags on SO... Getting him elected would also be a better use of time.
the more people/process you get involved, the less gets done

user315433
Yes, when you post those charts with comment flags I usually wonder how much Andy and I (and maybe other bots) are skewing the data.

Heh

user202362
out of curiosity, has any pet ever randomly typed anything on stackoverflow while its owner was away from the keyboard?

4:02 AM
@Telkitty Try select * from posts where TypedByPet <> 0.

user202362
@NormalHuman other bots ... you are a bot, I always knew it!

@NormalHuman I can eliminate a good bit by ignoring Community-handled flags (since they're essentially free to handle that seems reasonable anyway). But since Andy's training classifiers, a lot of his stuff is mod-handled.
still HIGHLY accurate, but, not free

user315433
A Smokey-size set of regexes (which don't need to be made public) would help a bit more... Maybe with age restriction for sanity.

user315433
E.g., assorted thank-yous and you-are-welcomes.

user315433
Worthless after a week.

user315433
4:09 AM
Well... sometimes thank-you is the only indication that the answer works. When a 1-rep user posts "thank you this is an awesome answer" but of course doesn't know about accepts, and is never seen again.

user315433
And so we're left with the noise pollution.

I mean a big community shift in attitude about some things could reduce flags, too...

Yeah, this is what got me thinking about other heuristics originally. I don't really care about the lone "thank you" comment on the lone answer. The ten "thank you" comments on the top answer on an old question can be blown away without even waiting for a flag.

As in, a silly "thank you" comment, in reality, doesn't hurt anything if it's on some crappy old question with 100 views. We're just compelled to flag it now because we hate thank yous.

user315433
4:11 AM
Do you care about the lone "this isn't a code writing service" under a frequently visited question?

irritatingly, it probably isn't getting flagged
I frequently come upon old, heavily-referenced questions with tons of old noise on them and just blow away all the comments.
folks'll reply & argue before they flag
Trivia: SO gets lots of noise flags on answer-comments, Math is more evenly split between questions and answers

How deeply have you looked into your noise flag data so far? Are there patterns of like, significant runs of flags by the same user on a post? For example, people finding posts with tons of noise and just flagging all the comments in succession?

@JasonC that happens, but
ok first I should note that the common case is always few flags because the common case is few comments
which skews everything else
There's - and I'm going from memory so don't quote this - maybe 25% of flagged posts that get multiple flags on comments
even when there are multiple comments, flagging all of them doesn't account for a majority
...even when it should
which is the other irritating thing about all this; folks have their pet peeves or target patterns & will flag those while ignoring other problematic comments on the same post

user202362

user202362
coincidence? I think not! :p

4:19 AM
"folks have their pet peeves or target patterns & will flag those while ignoring other problematic comments on the same post" ... this... I feel like maybe there's some way to work with this fact... I'm just too fuzzy headed right now to put it together.
Some way to somehow... instead of sending flags directly to mods, somehow piece together information gained from various users flagging various comments on a given post for their own personal reasons, and put it together into something meaningful that's easy on the mod side.
I can't even describe the idea properly. Maybe that made sense.
I don't think I'm smart enough to work anything out along those lines.
@Telkitty Lol
"International Day of Happines [dubious]"

user315433
> I used #rstats sentiment analysis to find the most negative comment on @StackExchange network. It did not disappoint pic.twitter.com/w0KFSPAn5W -- David Robinson at 11:42 AM - 6 Apr 2016

hey tavern!
how things are going here
I am here after long time

@NormalHuman Haha, nice.
@TGMCians \o

o/

It's that quiet time in the tavern. The daily routine: Shog's talking about something, I can barely think straight, Telkitty's posting cat pics, and soon we'll transition into smokey spam flags. Then a new day begins.

4:30 AM
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Pattern-matching website in body: Quickbook accounting software free download by wadinjatriv on apple.SE

user202362
4:43 AM
@JasonC sometimes I post dog pictures ... and other animals, like piglets, raccoons and chickens

@JasonC hahaha I see

user202362
Geek Pride Day is an initiative to promote geek culture, celebrated annually on May 25. The initiative originated in Spain in 2006 as (Spanish: Día del orgullo friki) and spread around the world via the Internet. == Origins == Tim McEachern organized unconnected events called Geek Pride Festival and/or Geek Pride Day 1998 to 2000 at a bar in Albany, New York, which are sometimes seen as a prelude to Geek Pride Day. In 2006, the Spanish blogger Germán Martínez known online as señor Buebo organized the first celebration, the day was celebrated for the first time in Spain and on the Internet, drawing...

user202362
lol

4:57 AM
Oh god

1 hour later…
6:07 AM
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] URL in title, bad keyword in title, blacklisted website in body, blacklisted website in title, pattern-matching website in body, +2 more: healthflyup.com/wrinkle-couture/ by rnyv pista on apple.SE

6:50 AM
@JasonC would likely catch fire

2 hours later…
user202362
9:02 AM
meetup - SecTalks (25th) - Hacking AWS end to end

Stop hacking AWS @Telkitty. You bringing down their S3 last week wasn't that great for us either.

user202362
thanks for the compliment, I couldn't hack a password-less account, let alone AWS

It's always fun when people I know ask "you're good with computers, right? So you could hack stuff?" ... ehm ... no ... I wouldn't even know where to start.

user202362
I make things, I don't break things!

I make things that are broken!
2

9:13 AM
I want to install VS 2017 on my laptop
> Please close all instances of Microsoft Visual Studio 2015 before proceeding with this operation.
Guess it'll have to wait for tonight

If a RO/Employee sees this, could you please unstar my message from yesterday about Smokey, the problem has been fixed now

It'll drop off the wall eventually

9:38 AM
Don't worry @angussidney. I'll probably say a lot of star-worthy stuff throughout the day, so it won't last much longer.
2

@Bart It's like a self-fulfilling prophecy

user202362
@Bart if you say stupid things, I will star them - for all of your colleagues to see >_<

@Telkitty none of my colleagues are on here, and they are already fully aware of my ability to say stupid stuff
It's actually surprising. I don't think I've ever worked with anyone who had an SO account.

I've worked with a few people who have an account, but they're not really active
> Germany to invest 100 billion euros in country-wide gigabit network

user202362
9:57 AM
most of my friends just use this site to search for answers, they don't really post

user202362
10:12 AM
I am depressed, I think even my troll career is failing ...

!!/tea

@Stijn brews a cup of earl grey tea for @Stijn

@Telkitty Here you go, have a cup :)
I wish it worked like this in real life
just having to send a command to a bot, and a robot brings me a cup of coffee

user202362
I used to be in the open, so were my enemies. Then it became me in the open and I kind of knew who my opponents were. Now I am in the open, I don't even know who my adversaries are ... but they are definitely there

user202362
@Stijn ty

user202362
10:17 AM
I am such a useless troll ~cries~

11:01 AM
There there, you're the only troll I know with an Urban Dictionary entry. That should count for something.

11:23 AM
so the new Zelda game is receiving great reviews
but I don't feel like dropping 300+ euros on a brand new console that (apparently) is the equivalent of a potato compared to ps4/xbone

user202362
there was a potato draught in Australia a few months ago

user202362
price of potato went from $1 a kg to nearly$3 a kg

It's not trying to compete in the PS4/XBox One space though @Stijn. The comparison there is rather pointless

@Bart sure, but the price doesn't match the product

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword with email in answer: What happened to Sophie's curse? by Harry Peterson on anime.SE

11:34 AM
@Stijn it kinda does imho. You get a console, as well as a portable device. It has pretty decent perf. Really not that bad.
Then again, I have the devkit on order, so let's see when it arrives.

1 hour later…
12:54 PM
@angussidney The deed has been done.
@Stijn It basically works like that in real life, except sometimes you have to make small talk with the coffee robot about the weather.

"Sir, I am a trained barista" "No backtalk coffee robot, or you'll be unplugged!"

And occasionally the Starbucks fork of the coffee bot tries too hard to pretend to be your best friend.
"Error 0x482AFA34,23,99 (0): Sir I am a trained barista"

Their speech recognition is terrible as well. I tell them I'm Bart, but somehow the cup is always marked "Barthe" or something like that.

Yeah, either that, or I'm behind "Jesse" in line an uncanny number of times, and always steal his lattes.
Poor Jesse.
Lol...

It's confusing that the order of close reasons differs between MSO and MSE

user202362
1:15 PM
It's not very wise to troll a hacker right?

or hack a troll?

user202362
yes, that has been done before :x but not by me

@Telkitty there's the classic story where a script kiddie targets localhost with their tool

@Bart decent console, some design problems that could have been easily avoided. An average successful launch.
That said, many users - youtubers expecially - out there seems to be really wishing for it to fail.
One could go as far as claiming many were paid to post fake news...

Well, what do people want for new console actually..?

1:26 PM
Day one: the joycon are to hard to remove! Every time I have to fight because they won't come appart
Day after: my console felt on the ground because the joycon detached at random times!
.....
Maybe, next time you post a video claiming that the joycons are hard to remove....
try to push the "release" button first...

@AndrewT. personally I just want to play Zelda. Don't care about the other games.

@Stijn you haven't yet?

Not the last few games, no

so, I can spoil it for you?

no, I might pick up a second hand Wii U some day :p

1:29 PM
(the "Please don't" option will cost you a blueberry muffin)
^_^

!!/muffin
I tried

You probably would have more luck if SweetieBot was still running around, but sadly she is long forgotten.

I should stop trying to replace breakfast with coffee

Breakfast ... I remember that

What is breakfast? Can eat anot?

user202362
1:41 PM

Oh god no.. it's almost shop's closing time...

user202362

>_<

1:58 PM
I won't say the console doesn't have some issues... but...
the stories you read around are too good...
just now I see that some people managed to reverse the joycon wrist grab attachments and weren't able to remove them afterwards.

I haven't bought new console since PS1...

I haven't bought a console ...

2:19 PM
@rene do you steal them instead?

@Stijn It's cheaper.

can't argue with that

:(

@Derpy yeah, although that's a bit of a design flaw, particularly for a console to be used by children. But meh.

@Bart mah, I am pretty sure that most children will learn how to properly use the grips (or the release button) before many youtubers will....
If I had to cry for something.... still no included screen protector?
And where is the coin in the EU LoZ BotW collector edition?

2:34 PM
@rene

:D
Looks like I had spinach ...

Trogdor's flower cosplay?

user202362

@rene Humorous sarcasm isn't the MO there, huh?
:P

Nope

2:44 PM
Should be expected, from a room of people whose greatest joy in life is judging other people.

Are you judging people there?

@rene The most broken part about that, was that it was kind of all you guys who got yourselves all worked up piling on to people.

Sure
It was all us, you were fine, right?
I'll watch my steps here

@rene Are you denying that the entire purpose of that room is literally to pile on to other people? Lol. I'm not sure what I expected.
There's a reason you guys have to walk a fine line to prevent from getting shut down by CMs and the community.
And that reason isn't me.

@JasonC Well, no, it is to pile on posts.

2:50 PM
Whatever you need to tell yourself to make it not feel like the secret police.

Why do I feel like a debate is dragged into here that's missing a lot of context?

Because alskdjflkjsahgdkjsahgd
All right I have to run, peace.

@JasonC Oh, that is true. And if I can rid of rule I'm the first to do so. but that particular rule to disallow !//all-cv-pls [user link] is at the heart of how I feel the room could navigate the murky waters of what is just acceptable.

user202362
being angry and run is a very bad combination

@Telkitty I'm not angry, I think it's funny.

2:53 PM
I only run when angry ... which explains the lack of exercise I get

@Bart I think Jason rather takes it here because here he has the powerz. ;)

But I gotta help a client fix some stupid raspberry pi based stupidness, so...

Sounds like fun :) Cya

@rene I have never, once, ever, kicked anybody that I've been in a fight with, from this room, when moderating forums, or anywhere else, ever, and that's a super shitty implication.

I think both our humor goes unnoticed, what a coincidence

2:56 PM
Christ, I don't think I've ever done anything in this room except move smokey messages and maybe kick bart for lolz every once in a while.
Oh was it humor
In that case: lol, nevermind
Ok ok for real, later.

@Bart I was thinking the same... (still reading)
So what was that all about?

Not a clue

@Stijn we had fun in SOCVR and we piled on so much fun that it overflowed into this room.

@rene sounds like fun :)

It sure is

3:09 PM
Ah, you cranky close voting bastards couldn't stop yourself from hurting poor innocent OPs?

That sums up our day, yes.

I got 99 errors...
If I scroll really carefully, I can find the single coding error that causes trouble. All other 98 are "Metadata file ... could not be found"

You can click on the 99 errors, then the list will be empty ...

@rene genius! :)

Yeah, I use that all the time, just before I sign-off to push to production ...

3:21 PM
On a Friday, I assume

3:32 PM
@Stijn that's nothing. I'm staring at something with 250 warnings :D

@Bart and how many of those are going to get fixed eventually? :p
My money is on 0

If I have my way, all 250 ... but it's probably not up to me.

finally there's a Belgian driver in Formula 1, and he ends up with the shittiest car of them all
:(
at this pace it'll be a triumph to finish each race

@Bart There is a setting in the project file ... makes everyone grumpy for a day or two but after that, victory.

Hah, unfortunately we're talking Unity here ... where you just click the "clear" button and all warnings disappear
If only I could turn them into errors

3:37 PM
@rene this project has the setting enabled, really annoying when debugging code and it complains about unused variables

@Stijn yeah, freaking shame. The guy is so talented.

@Stijn I'll promise I'll help pushing when he needs to go up Eau Rouge ...
A friend of mine visited the F1 race on Spa last year. He had a pretty good time.

I've been wanting to go for some time, but tickets ain't cheap

I'd love to see a GP, but indeed, so expensive. Le Mans seems to be much better value for money

user315433
> @df07 I once used Google speech reco to IM my wife: "I have another meeting to go to". It used the word "mistress" instead of "meeting". -- Yaakov Ellis at 6:30 AM - 8 Mar 2017

3:47 PM
:D

On the plus side: after that he didn't need to be on time for dinner ever again ...

I'm going over F# 4.1 release notes, didn't expect to see a name like this
> Struct annotations for Records (by Will Smith)

4:03 PM
There is still music in F# ...

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword in answer, bad keyword with email in answer: Does schizophrenia cause a loss of intelligence? by paul mervyn on cogsci.SE

user315433
7

I don't like the idea of ignoring flags. It sends the wrong message to users that are trying to help clean stuff up. I propose a different solution: Automate comment removal. I've been automatically flagging comments for removal since July 2014. Of the 238,966 comments flagged on Stack Overflow...

user315433
Yeah, if I have double-digit pending flags stuck forever, I'm probably going to flag less in the future if at all.

4:40 PM
Oh hey. That's mine. :)

Not sure that user is trolling @ShadowWizard. The app apparently isn't clear enough about bug reports. There are tons of those in the same format all the time, but apparently nobody is bothered to improve things.

5:00 PM
The MSE front page is cached for an unexpectedly long time
nvm, the question I answered is on -20 so it's not visible

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Blacklisted website in body, link at end of body: that you essentially read about copying off weight inside by user705375 on superuser.com

@Stijn you're desperate for rep, so you answer anything you can get your hands on?

@Bart nah, I don't see lots of these empty reports. IMO it's clear enough you should add context to the report, and the OP has been given hour to come back and explain. Deleted now, as it should be.
@Stijn yeah, even the great Shog can't protect his own questions from being dropped off the front page when they get -8.
(though not really sure why all those downvotes?)
@Norm you feel blue today?
echo echo echo

5:34 PM
@ShadowWizard I see at least several each week

@Bart hmm... maybe because of the glasses...

@rene I need a source of income to fund my bounties :p

user315433

user315433
Some legit comment, but also promotion that's at best loosely related. Edit?

user315433
5:45 PM
Okay, I'm editing the first one. The second one is murky, with the question asking for service rec.

Smelly smells

sorry

user315433
@ShadowWizard That should have been a feature of [announcement] tag.

user315433
At the scale you're operating on currently, I could run this locally & keep up with comments on Stack Overflow, which might be the better option here - building this in would require training it on each site where it was needed, which would probably take forever on all but a half-dozen sites. Something I've been mulling over since you announced this; quite honestly, I just kept hoping you'd be elected moderator & run it yourself ;-P — Shog9 ♦ 35 mins ago

user315433
Well, how many additional mods should be called up from Fall 2016 election so that Andy is in?

5:54 PM
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword in body, bad keyword in title, pattern-matching product name in body, pattern-matching website in body: How Rapid Ageless works? by shariq.saied on superuser.com

user315433
Looks like 2, which is a reasonable number.

6:09 PM
So? We now all put 200 flags in the mod queue daily to raise the load ?

6:24 PM
@NormalHuman yeah, but it's not really a special tag yet

user315433
Vegetarianism site got pro tem mods

Eh, kinda expected this to do poorly; doesn't demonstrate a compelling problem (which is the case most of the time when discussing comments - they're death by a thousand cuts). I debated holding off on it until after I had data from a revised set of flags, but...
1) that would mean I'd have to deal with a bunch of complaints then
2) more focus on the copy changes
(and I hate discussing copy changes. It's always speculative. I'd all but given up on messing with comment flags until @Aaron reminded me that the current ones were worthless)
Best part of this? Two people so far arguing that there isn't a problem because mods aren't declining comment flags. Ha.
I should've called it, "World's Greatest Comment-Flag Plan of 2017"

6:46 PM
Comment moderation: the "Let's invade Russia!" of meta.
3

user315433
Is there a compelling problem on sites other than SO? Math went without elections since 2014, so apparently the workload isn't huge there.

user315433
Either that, or the Fischers are camping in the queue all the time.

Workplace has a comment problem. You'll often see threads purged with a note from a mod to not use comments for idle chatter. Math tends to be more tolerant of comment discussions. Perhaps it's because mathematicians are better at keeping things on topic?

user315433
Also, chat does not have MathJax, unless you are in the know about bookmarklets - Which main site users are not.

user315433
Also, way too much of "not going to answer because it's your homework, so let's have a tutoring session in comments"

user315433
6:58 PM
I think the TWP problem is with comments, more than with comment flags.

@NormalHuman yes, but not the same problem. Some sites just get no flags (which is a serious problem in and of itself); others are almost entirely generated by folks treating each comment thread as a place to battle over conflicting ideologies. SO is simply a matter of scale - we have enough mods to handle it right now, because each flag takes very little time to handle... But when there aren't, they pile up very quickly.

7:15 PM
@Shog9 hehe, I hear your frustration this far away.... but really I don't think comments are that horrible. Comment flags are indeed terrible, but comments by themselves are essential part of Q&A site in my opinion. And SE did a decent job with comments, keeping them rather simple (no comment threads like in other places), and reducing most of the noise by requiring the 50 rep.

@JonEricson mathematicians are better at keeping things on topic ... I hope they are. It does matter a lot if you subtract or multiply ...

@ShadowWizard that all helps, but... a lot of that perception is an illusion created by years of deletion

7:31 PM
@JonEricson Workplace seems like the best place to test autohiding comments after a day.

> Two people so far arguing that there isn't a problem because mods aren't declining comment flags. Ha.
Wait, so I can go back to being anal about the flags again?
I wish I could tell people not to bother flagging anything but Rude comments if the Question has only one answer and/or less than 50 views.
priorities.

@AaronHall No, I don't think that's particularly helpful; comments aren't important enough to make precisely classifying issues with them worth the time and thought involved. "I'm taking action" -> helpful, "I don't see anything to do" -> declined should suffice; problems arise when folks expect precision that doesn't exist.
(observe also the two wildly different opinions on what NC means: "it's close to rude" vs. "it's close to chatty")

7:47 PM
I also like it for "goes against purposes of the site" for comments like "you should have googled"
not actually rude, but also bad, and maybe we should keep record of it.
"no longer needed" implies "needed" at a prior point

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Link at end of answer: How to create mockup like this? by Tom on graphicdesign.SE

@AaronHall why isn't that actually rude?

non-noise being unactioned requests to Questions for more data or requests to Answers for improvements?
Doesn't feel "rude" - just feels like "noise"

@AaronHall I mean... Kinda feels like splitting hairs, doesn't it? It's rude - that's why you're deleting it. If it'd said, I donno, "If you'd googled this exact title, you'd have found this other question that I just closed this as a duplicate of and saved both of us time" you wouldn't be deleting it.

user315433
7:55 PM
"You should have googled, asshole" is closer to my interpretation of rude.

user315433
If a prof tells a student "It's on the syllabus", is that rude? (I don't do that often, for the record)

Well, a professor should say that.

user315433
I don't doubt those should be deleted, but "rude" in my mind is something that will lead to suspension if unchecked.

Users should not say "you should have googled it" - the site tries to create googleable Q&A, which easily googleables, even if dupes, help us do.

Either it's rude, or you're flagging it for some other reason.

7:58 PM
Jeff's original reasoning for NC was for derailers.

I'd find it hard to argue that, for example, LMGTFY is inherently noise: you're linking to a query that presumably could've helped the author; there's actual information there.
We discourage it because it's patronizing - rude - not because it's unhelpful.

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