Tavern on the Meta

Shadow Wizard

3:06 PM

@Moosebot are you aware that Shog might not like you?

user280395

@ShadowWizard DANGER DANGER DANGER. I'M GONNA GET SUSPENDED!

Shadow Wizard

Now that's a smart bot.

user315433

Journeyman Geek

heh, I wonder if moosebot is anything like aibobot

(my spare account. Used at a previous workplace with dodgy PCs, and for testing.)

user315433

^^ Traffic to Politics. Currently the visits and questions per day are nearly the same as for Worldbuilding... coincidence?

Journeyman Geek

3:09 PM

also, I had trouble convincing people I was not actually a bot

@zaq yes?

user315433

Except Politics is still in beta.

Stijn

So yesterday I made a phone call to inform about a house up for renting, it had only just been put online. I couldn't make an appointment yet, they'd call me back as soon as possible.

Today I saw the price has changed from 625 to 675 euros per month -_-

Been on the hunt for months so I can move out of this tiny apartment and it's just so exhausting to deal with all the shit that goes on

rene

@Stijn I got this response several times when I was on the hunt for an house I already sold that particular house now 21 times, in the last 15 minutes. But that was mid 90's

Bart

3:29 PM

Come to Geneva. There you go to a great place to rent. They ask you if you like it. And if you do, you can put your name on the list ... skipping the first 3 pages of people who have signed up already.

Stijn

@Bart ouch

How can you ever find a place then

Or do people live like bums while they're on the waiting list :p

Bart

I got lucky when I found my place. But I know people who want to move and have been trying for years. It doesn't help that the UN is there as well, and that they pay 50% of the rent for employees. Meaning prices just go up because all of a sudden 2k in rent means you can actually afford 4k.

I'd really love to move, but it would just take a shitload of time and effort

(And of course the financial sector here has no problem with the prices either)

A couple I worked with actually hired a company to find them a place. They ended up spending 5k to find an apartment.

Stijn

wow

rene

yeah, that is crazy, Amsterdam is getting like that once more

Stijn

4:08 PM

I just voted to close this. Isn't the system supposed to upvote Pekka's comment for me, instead of posting a new "possible duplicate" comment?

Shog9

@Stijn pekka deleted his comment

Stijn

@Shog9 I refreshed the page because that's what I thought, but the comment is still there

Shog9

@Stijn No, I mean he had two comments - one where he just linked to the dup with its title, and another added automatically when he voted; he deleted the latter.

Stijn

Ah, I see

rene

anyway .. I just hammered it ....

Bart

4:13 PM

Let's not automatically like comments Pekka leaves. Before you know it he'll sell genuine comment likes.

rene

Make an FR ...

Bart

Got to love Joe Blow. Grumpy and abrasive as ever :D

rene

Let's call it supportive and move on

Stijn

Google should have an option to filter out hot air blog posts

rene

basic software for winfows

Stijn

4:23 PM

I'm trying to research zero downtime database migrations on big data, and so many articles are "it's easy, do X Y and Z, all done!"

rene

That is the default marketing slogan

Bart

I hear the server-less cloud-based approach is the go to approach

rene

I agree. It basically eliminates the big, only giving you only the data to deal with

Bart

We're being helpful

Stijn

About as much as those articles :)

ProgramFOX

4:30 PM

@ShadowWizard That's useless, I don't think anybody of the dev team would want to waste time on that.

rene

waffles

more waffles

Bart

So late ...

rene

argh

bluefeet

Mmmmm waffles.

Wait that's the name of my new dog, I don't want to eat her

Stijn

@bluefeet a freudian slip...

Bart

4:40 PM

God, now I'm hungry

bluefeet

for puppy?

rene

When hungry Bart eats anything

Stroopwafel?

Bart

Ooooh, damn you

I still have an hour and a half to go, and nothing to eat

rene

Or do you rather have an dropje

Aaron Hall

I seriously think the lack of a hot-sort is a serious problem for Stack Overflow.

rene

4:44 PM

What is that? select id from posts order by score hot

Aaron Hall

Sorting by votes makes no sense when some answers have been around nearly a decade, but are getting much fewer new upvotes than newer answers.

Bart

I think we have had this discussion before?

3

Aaron Hall

It's a simple fix - introduce a new hot-sort tab that sorts by net votes over the past year, and let it be opt-in.

Stijn

@bluefeet Does SE have any experience with database migrations on lots of data and no downtime? If so, I might post a question to MSE about that. I'm particularly interested in handling unexpected interruptions on datasets with up to 100 million records

bluefeet

@Bart deja vu?

Bart

4:47 PM

deja deja vu

bluefeet

@Stijn <shrug>

Stijn

@bluefeet You're a dev, you ought to know :p

rene

@bluefeet that is hopeful ;)

bluefeet

@Stijn not a dev.

Stijn

Oh, I thought you were part CM, part dev

Aaron Hall

4:48 PM

squeaks wheels

Stijn

It's just that it'd be a bit silly when the answer from SE is "we don't do such things" :p

So I want to make sure before posting

bluefeet

@Stijn sort of. I write sql and stuff as a part of being a CM

rene

@Stijn did you check Nick's blog: nickcraver.com/blog/archive

Stijn

@rene not yet (although I'm an occasional reader), I'll do that now, thanks

rene

I think the TSDB is considered big data, not the stuff that is in the sql databases

Stijn

4:53 PM

@rene TSDB?

rene

Time series database with the logging from across all layers/platforms

Aaron Hall

My biggest complaint re #stackoverflow is not the political posts of the CEO - it's that great new answers are sorted below crappy old ones.

Tweeted by aaronchall on February 9, 2017 at 4:54 PM

Stijn

@AaronHall so you're suggesting to make Active the default sort order?

Aaron Hall

9 mins ago, by Aaron Hall

It's a simple fix - introduce a new hot-sort tab that sorts by net votes over the past year, and let it be opt-in.

Stijn

ah I missed that

could be worth considering

Aaron Hall

4:56 PM

chat moves fast.

Bart

I was going to suggest you finally make it a proposal. But then again, chat history shows that I was fed up and made that suggestion in July of last year as well.

Aaron Hall

I'm not confident in getting a decent reception on meta posts. But this is a super-reasonable suggestion, it shouldn't get me tarred, feathered, and rode out of town on a rail... should it?\

Bart

Even if it does end up like that, who cares. You win some, you lose some.

Aaron Hall

I don't like my track record, I'm not exactly a people pleaser.

Dmitry Kudriavtsev

Hi everyone. I had a couple of questions about certain sites on the Stack Exchange network.

Can I ask them here?

Bart

5:05 PM

Ask and we'll tell you

Dmitry Kudriavtsev

OK. I was wondering if there are any news on Programming Puzzles and Code Golf getting a site design. We graduated about a year ago

Bart

-1

Q: How long is it before we get our own design?

We have exited beta now, as far as I can tell. However, the site looks identical to most beta sites. When will we make our own design?

rene

6 to 8 years?

Bart

Particularly a comment by @JonEricson

> As I mentioned in the post, Code Golf is not exactly a traditional Q&A site. Currently, another CM is sorting through the list of community-requested features to see which we can impliment. Obviously, any new features that get created might influence the final design, so we're holding off on doing that work until we know what, if anything, might get added.

^ @DmitryKudriavtsev

Aaron Hall

> This server could not prove that it is meta.codegolf.stackexchange.com; its security certificate is from *.stackexchange.com. This may be caused by a misconfiguration or an attacker intercepting your connection. Learn more.

Proceed to meta.codegolf.stackexchange.com (unsafe)

chrome ^^^

Dmitry Kudriavtsev

5:10 PM

OK, that makes sense. Thanks for clarifying.

Bart

np

rene

I don't want to disappoint you but at least one designer recently left the company so that wouldn't help the backlog of sites that wait for designs either

Bart

@AaronHall the https situation is still "in progress" so to say

Dmitry Kudriavtsev

@Bart Quick off-topic question: Is your profile picture related to a certain Quora user

Bart

@DmitryKudriavtsev now I'm curious, but no. I don't use Quora, so I have no idea who you're referring to.

rene

5:19 PM

Wait, you aren't Cody Gray?

Bart

Sssst

Shokhet

Hey, is there a way to search for questions that I asked and answered myself via the search bar on the top of the page?

Bart

I don't think there is a self-answered search option, no

rene

that ^

Shokhet

Is that something that can be done via the Data Explorer?

rene

5:23 PM

Yes

Shokhet

Thank you both!

Jason C

@Shokhet you could do it with a sede query though, if you don't mind missing results from the past week worst case. I'd throw one together for you but on my phone.

Er

Shokhet

@JasonC Thanks for the offer :)

I've never written a query for SEDE before (doubt I know where to start); I'm looking for a prewritten query now

Dmitry Kudriavtsev

@Bart quora.com/profile/Brooke-Schwartz

Found her

Jason C

Lol I need to just stop chatting on my phone. The keyboard hides the current messages. I'm always one step behind.

rene

5:27 PM

@Shokhet try this one: data.stackexchange.com/stackoverflow/query/626221?UserId=578411 but use your own userid (and change the site)

Shokhet

@rene It worked! Thank you so much :)

Did you just write that now, for me?

rene

yeah

Bart

@DmitryKudriavtsev hah, don't know her. But excellent taste in glassed I'd say. :D

Shokhet

@rene That was so nice of you! Thanks :D

rene

np

Quora is way too strict when it comes to BNBR. We should definitely invite pseudo @Bart to the SE network. We're less strict ;)

Bart

5:39 PM

> My answer to "Is kidnapping a woman in order to have a child justifiable?" was reasonably respectful until it ended with, “Shame on you.”

Shokhet

@Bart I chuckled at that

Bart

... right ... I may stay away from Quora

rene

yeah

Jason C

6:07 PM

Lost your nail clippers? Use a belt sander. Life hack!

Bart

Doesn't involve wetwipes. -1

Jason C

6:24 PM

Lol

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Link at end of answer: How does Internet link bonding work? by Megha Sinha on superuser.com

Shokhet

6:40 PM

@rene Want a quick and easy (minimum) 25 points?

0

Q: Is there a SEDE query that finds all questions that I asked and answered myself?

I'm looking for a particular question that I answered myself, because I want to find a meta-discussion in the comments about whether that's okay (spoiler: it is). Has anyone written a query that will find those questions for me?

discussion data-explorer

Shokhet

7:07 PM

Collect your points. Thanks again, @rene! :D

rene

you're welcome

Shadow Wizard

7:24 PM

@ProgramFOX well, there's something similar with @xkcdBot which posts a daily onebox... is it open source?

@xkcdBot help

...

@JasonC hey! How's the PM doing?

@rene were you serious? lol

@AaronHall did you check your MSE login? Is it really different?

rene

@ShadowWizard I already thought of giving you an headstart. Didn't expect you to bail out ;)

Shadow Wizard

If that's the case you can just add your main login to MSE, use it, and it should auto link your accounts. I think. @Aaron

rene

@Magisch can you check what is answered here in relation to The Workplace. It doesn't feel right.

Shadow Wizard

@rene bail out? Cody? confused

rene

@ShadowWizard oh sorry, I didn't click to where you replied to. Well, no in that case I wasn't.

Shadow Wizard

7:29 PM

@rene the answer author has 11 rep there and member for 6 days.... guess he doesn't really know the site.

@rene oh lol. So what did you think I was referring to? ;)

The SEDE query?

I'm just not good with cursors and conditions in SQL, etc.

I did those a lot (stored procedures in various projects), but don't really like it.

rene

OK

@ShadowWizard that is why I like this one. No more cursors

Shadow Wizard

@rene temp tables... also something I still got to learn about, used it once or twice but without really knowing what I'm doing. :/

Just too lazy and not motivated enough, I guess.

rene

@ShadowWizard technically I can get rid of those as well but it becomes rather messy in that case

@ShadowWizard privileges differ per beta/graduated site and IIRC can even differ per site.

I think either zaq or shog mentoned that once

hmm interesting: api.stackexchange.com/docs/…

Shog9

Obvious example: on Meta Stack Exchange, creating a comment requires 5 rep

Downvotes are available at 100

Totally arbitrary, doesn't match anything else

@Shog9 as it turns out, I was kinda wrong about this.

rene

7:44 PM

Ok, I'm going to incorporate that /privileges endpoint

@Shog9 did you mentally block that you had 1337 waiting messages?

Aaron Hall

@ShadowWizard Yeah, I don't know, I don't think so.

I did check the page, though.

Shog9

@rene no, I've just gotten into an unconscious habit of clearing them.

Which the new topbar arrangement has temporarily thrown a wrench into

rene

lol

Are there more unconscious things that you might have been doing lately, like declining feature requests? You can't tell, right?

Aaron Hall

Everything seems to work right now (except SO chat at work - which I've mentioned to @Shog9 on 2 occasions prior, this being the 3rd) - and I don't mind the status quo too badly, so I'm going to let it be for now.

ProgramFOX

8:06 PM

@ShadowWizard Yes... but at least, that is much more useful than a daily "brews coffee" message. If you want to spend your time writing such a bot, go ahead, but I don't think any Smokey dev is going to code it, or accept the code if you write it for us.

Aaron Hall

> This site can’t be reached

The webpage at https://chat.stackoverflow.com/rooms/6/python might be temporarily down or it may have moved permanently to a new web address.
ERR_TUNNEL_CONNECTION_FAILED

SmokeDetector

8:22 PM

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Pattern-matching website in answer: Terminal login hangs by Robin D on apple.stackexchange.com

Shadow Wizard

9:04 PM

@AaronHall exit the tunnel, duh

;)

@rene huh, so it's possible via API but not SEDE?

rene

@ShadowWizard I have updated my answer here. It now includes the privilege table per site

Shadow Wizard

@Patrick did kind of SEDE with API as backend, no? Maybe it can be used for that...

rene

@ShadowWizard yeah, I don't recall if he did the /privileges as well

Shadow Wizard

@rene nice!

rene

The last 45 minutes of that implementation went into getting the &^%$#@! CSS right

Shadow Wizard

9:06 PM

@ProgramFOX oh well, @rene and @Bart won't have their morning coffee so easily. If they'll become grumpy, I know who to blame.... :P

rene

or at least not 100% broken

Bart

"become grumpy" ... yeah, that ship has sailed

rene

Tavern on the Grumpy

5

Shadow Wizard

@rene whoa. I also hate CSS, spent half a day this week on something REAALLLLY stupid. And didn't get it solved. :/

@Bart do I sense tone of grumpiness here? :D

@Shog9 hopefully not too many chat pings? ;)

Bart

Shadow Wizard

9:09 PM

@Bart hey is this you? ;)

Glasses might match...

Shog9

9:48 PM

@ShadowWizard nope. You're the king in that arena:

Chat user     Pings and Replies
------------- -----------------
shadowwizard 12603
nickcraver    9247
deanward      6981
des           5183
hynes         5088
adamlear      4906
kurtisbeavers 4487
shog9         4479
max           4397

(top 10, last 365 days)

rene

Congrats @sha you're at the top of an list from the employee that handouts networkwide suspensions as an hobby ...

Shadow Wizard

@rene until then, something to boast about... ;-)

rene

:)))))

Shadow Wizard

10:05 PM

So thanks @Shog I am honored! :-D

rene

12604 ...

Shog9

these are small numbers compared to the top chatters on either of the other servers of course

But, still kinda interesting

Shadow Wizard

@Shog9 challenge accepted! Who are those top chatters and how many pings? ;)

Also, who is des? This one?

Des ♦, Honolulu, HI, United States

1 1 2

Not a single post...

> 9981 all time messages

yup, she is the one

Over half her messages are pings and replies. Nice.

checking self

94329 all time messages

Only 13% pings and replies.

Shog9

10:20 PM

@ShadowWizard you know that table is pings/replies directed at you, not from you...

Shadow Wizard

@Shog9 oh. huh. oops. lol

I blame WAG

Shog9

I guess a ratio of "talks vs talked at" might still be interesting

Shadow Wizard

@Shog9 why FOX9000 isn't there? He should have tons of pings and replies too...

oh, last 365 days

If you'll check backwards, Mr. @FOX will also be in top 10.

Shog9

@ShadowWizard for the past 365 days, he's #13

For all-time, #4

Shadow Wizard

@Shog9 yup, makes sense.

in Shadow's Den, Aug 13 '16 at 5:47, by Shadow Wizard

=== Word Association Game Leaderboard ===
1. FOX 9000.........................29403
2. Shadow Wizard....................17572
3. DroidDev.........................11446
4. ProgramFOX........................4665
5. rene..............................3698
6. CRABOLO...........................3100
7. Frank.............................3082
8. SPArchaeologist...................2859
9. SilentKiller......................2786
10. MysticMagicϡ.....................2441
11. berserk..........................1953

Shog9

10:24 PM

waffles

All-time meta-chat top-10 pinged:
Chat user             Pings and Replies
--------------------- -----------------
shadowwizard          50613
nickcraver            42428
petergrace            38154
fox9000               32994
shog9                 30784
droiddev              26545
adamlear              26489
davidfullerton        25000
balpha                23156
kylebrandt            20832

Shadow Wizard

@Shog9 are those only pings that turned into notifications? Or all pings?

Shog9

@ShadowWizard ALL pings

every time someone @-mentions you in chat, even if you immediately clear it

every time someone replies to one of your messages

Shadow Wizard

Cool, is this available somewhere for us mortals? :)

Shog9

doubt it

kind of an odd stat

Shadow Wizard

You and your magic tools.... :P

Shog9

10:26 PM

(note that rchern is still #12 on the all-time list...)

Shadow Wizard

heh, @David is at 25k exactly, he should throw a party.... :D

@Shog9 who's rchern?

Jon Ericson

@ShadowWizard I'll ping him to let him know . . .

Oded

Why am I not in any of these top 10 lists?

Shadow Wizard

@JonEricson no!!!!!

Shog9

@ShadowWizard ):

Shadow Wizard

10:28 PM

@Oded you can always join WAG, it's only matter of 2442 words and you're #10

Shog9

@Oded haven't done a top-10 deletes crap before it even ends up in my feed list yet

Oded

I demand a recount!

Shadow Wizard

(MysticMagic has left ages ago and @ber no longer playing...)

Oded

Or an alt-top 10-list

rene

@Oded we didn't want to tell you but now that you brought it up: you're not that popular ...

Shadow Wizard

10:29 PM

oh you're too cruel @rene

Shog9

@Oded here's the top alt-10 chat pingees in the past 365 days:

oded                 2903
gregbray             2874
rene                 2864
kirtithorat          2803
mattsherman          2797
jnat                 2775
willcole             2762
alexwarren           2725
stevetrout           2639
hairboat             2585

8 hours ago, by Oded

lol

lol

@Shog9 that's... unexpected.

rene

10:30 PM

yes ....

Oded

I trust in this alt-list

Shadow Wizard

@Shog9 what's "chat pingees"?

Shog9

@ShadowWizard people who are pinged

targets of replies or @-mentions

...terminology here leaves something to be desired

Shadow Wizard

@Shog9 what the difference with the other list?

Oded

Targets of ping.

Ping targets.

Shog9

10:31 PM

@ShadowWizard it's an alt-10

rene

what do people want from those ping targets?

Oded

Dunno why this reminds me of the fork handles skit.

The two ronnies - Fork handles

►

Shadow Wizard

ohhh, Rebecca! Now I get it.

Shog9

and we didn't even have to wait until... Friday

Shadow Wizard

@Shog9 it's Friday here. 34 minutes into Friday.

Shog9

10:33 PM

oh well

while you're in the future, roast some coffee for me so it'll be ready by the time I wake up

Shadow Wizard

@Shog9 I can, but someone here don't want to automate the coffee...

!!/coffee

SmokeDetector

@ShadowWizard brews coffee for @ShadowWizard

Oded

He's already on his weekend. No work for the Wizard tomorrow.

Shadow Wizard

@Oded well, I have to make schnitzels, take the kid from school, etc. Full time work. :P

Oded

Yeah yeah

Shadow Wizard

10:38 PM

BTW, after using it for quite a while I can say that I don't dislike the new top bar @Shog, though I still prefer if it won't be sticky. So, looks like you were right, it's not as bad as I thought it would be.

Shog9

@ShadowWizard the only way it could possibly be really bad would be if it had an envelope on it.

Shadow Wizard

@Shog9 hey, I liked the envelope! But maybe I'm just being nostalgic.

Shog9

Don't be silly; everyone who liked the envelope rage-quit after we removed it. Every single one of them. Thus, the only people left using the site are those that hated it.

Same for folks who hated the not-quite-black top-bar.

Oded

@ShadowWizard there may be some news about that tomorrow.

Shog9

"Twice as sticky, twice as white"

Oded

10:42 PM

"Shiny"

In the words of Kaylee

Shog9

I miss the fake specular highlights that were so popular back in the early 2000s. Apple used them in their chat, Cingular (now AT&T) used them in their ads, Windows XP used them on everything...

Everything looked like it was made of plastic, and shined to a glossy finish

there's some nostalgia for ya, @ShadowWizard.

0

Q: Would like a histogram option added to Stack Exchange Data Explorer

Looking at the Help link on Stack Exchange Data explorer, I don't see any way to create a horizontally scrollable histogram. I want to develop queries that could let's say, show how many votes I got for answers for various tags at various points along a time scale for example, or even for specifi...

feature-request data-explorer

rene

@Oded it is going to blink, right?

Oded

And scroll from the right to the left. Marquee should have never been removed from HTML.

rene

+1 for that

Oded

Bonus for @rene is that every link on it you click will take you to SEDE.

rene

10:47 PM

lol

Oded

You think I'm joking?

rene

...

Oded

Anyhow, off to bed, to curl up with a fresh copy of Refactoring.

rene

sleep well

Oded

I thought I just said that.

Jon Ericson

10:56 PM

@ShadowWizard The thing that really sold me on stickiness was when I switched to another site and realized that to get to the bar I'd need to scroll all the way back up the page. It was maddening.

Shadow Wizard

11:08 PM

@JonEricson what site? Just ask in their meta to add a sticky top bar... ;)

(and see the solid stream of downvotes... :))

@Shog9 yeah, I didn't really like it, but accepted that's just how things look, and will keep looking. Surprised it changed.

@Oded hope you mean turning off the stickiness?

oh, oops.... don't want to interrupt Oded in the middle of curling up...

Jon Ericson

@ShadowWizard Judaism was the one I noticed on. On that note, I think it'll be trickier to make a nice sticky bar on other sites than it was to make the black bar look good. Ask Ubuntu is a potential nightmare.

Shadow Wizard

@JonEricson that is true. Don't envy the designers...

user202362

11:37 PM

Transcript for