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6:00 PM
has officially reached frustrated-beyond-anger point
I know, we haven't been asking you to leak passwords for a long time
@RebeccaChernoff so now would be a bad time to poke you? :p (I admit, I have nothing witty to add to make you laugh, except possibly this meta comment which will seem stupid enough to barely grimace at by the time you get done reading it :P )
That can't be good for your morale
@RebeccaChernoff Jack Daniels helps in such cases
I hadn't realized how complex the chiclet code would need to be :\
        padding: 2px 4px;
        white-space: nowrap;
        color: #000;
        background: #eee;
        border-width: 1px 3px 3px 1px;
        border-style: solid;
        border-color: #ccc #aaa #888 #bbb;
        white-space: nowrap;
        color: #000;
        background: #eee;
        border-style: solid;
        border-color: #ccc #aaa #888 #bbb;
        padding: 2px 6px;
        -moz-border-radius: 4px;
        -webkit-border-radius: 4px;
        border-radius: 4px;
6:03 PM
@RebeccaChernoff Please vent. I don't think I could handle it if you decided to take your anger out on the SE network as a whole. (I'm imagining this, only with "arr-CHERN?" inserted appropriately.)
@drachenstern yeah.. jeff thinks I went overboard with the apple design :)
Today I learned that @RebeccaChernoff can't handle a morning without me when I'm trapped in meetings instead of on MSO chat. I'll try not to let it happen again
I briefly wondered how long I've been on the phone with this lady. Then I realized it would probably result in injury to myself or my wall.
@Jin I really like it ;)
6:05 PM
i just hope Chrome fixes that bleeding bug for the official build soon.
we put in some hack fixes, but not in all places.
@RebeccaChernoff Oh, you're still calling her a "lady." You're far from meltdown.
Chris Coyier of csstricks.com is da man.
I've started furiously tapping my foot. It is a sign of bad things to come, heh.
unfortunately it'd require html change..
I'm on hold to talk to someone else, it wasn't clear whether that person would be higher up. Heh.
Scratch that. They're all busy. They'll be calling me sometime today.
6:09 PM
Bets on that actually happening? |:
@Jin as far as I'm concerned, it's all magic...
You're better off anyway :p
I still only have 2 monitors displaying anything. (;
The problem seems to be that an updated driver installs, but the device manager doesn't report the new version. I just can't get it to truly install.
@RebeccaChernoff ehwut? all that time and now you have to wait for a callback?
6:11 PM
Q: How did 'anyway' become 'anyways,' anyway?

jjacksonAll of the time I see people use these two words synonymously. For example: Why did he move there anyway? Versus: Why did he move there anyways? I always assumed that there was once just the word anyway that one day had an S added to the end for some reason. Is this assumption correct...

@drachenstern fabulous isn't it?
@RebeccaChernoff I think this calls for a visit to a gym. Any gym. Just needs a lot of big heavy immovable things that can be safely punched or kicked.
@jjnguy, meh, I'm pissed off enough, I'll add an s if I want! (;
Oh boy did I mess up. About two months ago, my boss asked me how long something would take. I said (jokingly) "Six to eight weeks" .. I just realized that he took me seriously :/
@RebeccaChernoff It just made me think of that. No worries here. I use 'anyways'
6:13 PM
@TimPost so now you have to deliver? eeeep
@Jin Okay, at first this was a header and a white page, so I did allow-all in NoScript and now it's a header with a white page and an ad.
@TimPost you should read the book Pragmatic Programmer :)
@drachenstern Yeah. A lovely mountain of ick has descended upon me
@OctavianDamiean It is hard to find a copy of that.
@TimPost were you given spec etc at that time?
@OctavianDamiean I'm gonna guess you're fairly new here?
6:14 PM
@drachenstern Yes, sort of, it was quite open ended.
in this chat yes :)
@TimPost oh hell, that sucks
@OctavianDamiean I don't think @TimPost needs that particular recommendation ;)
@drachenstern that was more meant as a joke :)
@OctavianDamiean ah, ok then
@OctavianDamiean You forgot to use a ;)
6:16 PM
I can cobble something together quickly. It's just strange how I though everyone knows six to eight weeks means anything from ten minutes to ten years.
@TimPost Tell him you're an SO mod now and you don't have time for his "schedules"
@TimPost lol, yeah
glad I'm not doing that in my stuff :p that would surely get me some evil looks at times
@jjnguy indeed :D
Anyone, opinions
Q: Should you use two spaces after a period, or just a single one?

geoffcI had heard some debate on this topic, and I had always learned to use two spaces after a period. But it would seem there is an argument against it. However, I do not understand what the issue is against this practice.

I posted that it was an exact dupe of
Q: How many spaces should come after a period/full stop?

Lord TorgamusIn the past — or at least, when I was in elementary school — periods/full stops were followed by two spaces. Lately, it's become more and more common to see just one space. In the modern world, should we still use two spaces between sentences, or is just one okay? Does it depend on...

6:18 PM
The great thing about where I work is, everyone uses SO. The bad thing about where I work is .. everyone uses SO. "Get back to work and quit playing on meta" is a common thing to say here.
@Jeff Atwood started
Q: Two spaces after a period: English or Writers?

Jeff AtwoodWith regards to Should you use two spaces after a period, or just a single one? which has a so called "cross-site duplicate" at: http://english.stackexchange.com/questions/2544/how-many-spaces-should-come-after-a-period-full-stop I'll refer you to an article used as an answer in one of the hi...

Any brilliant ideas?
I'm not sure I aree with him, but want to hear some point of views...
@Trufa no dot at all ... problem solved :p
@OctavianDamiean hmm??
@RebeccaChernoff By the way, the reason why I pinged you earlier was because I thought it might be good to temporarily patch livequery to work around that Chrome bug, so that people can userscript without fear while I figure out how what's really going on there, heh.
@OctavianDamiean ohhhhhhhhh
@OctavianDamiean that was slow of me
My bad
6:22 PM
Ah. If that's easy, sure, why not? If you do a search is anyone else complaining about livequery?
@RebeccaChernoff Yeah, but I figured the easiest way was for you to change the file on stackflair, heheh :) I haven't seen anything, no...it seems pretty difficult to trigger this bug except in the actual userscript scenario, so I imagine no one else has come across it (or hasn't thought to complain if they have)
Honestly, I'd rather embed it and remove the stackflair dependency.
(nothing to do with this particular error, it just seems better to embed it?)
@Trufa I think it's a lame argument (my opinion)
@jjnguy ok, we agree basically
6:26 PM
@RebeccaChernoff Maybe, but for the moment I figure this is easier. I'm not even sure if we really need livequery to begin with, or if we can just hook into the message-adding another way.
@jjnguy what I see is that this is a very subjective matter in itself and the fact is, both the most upvoted answers and quite similar
@Trufa It's basically a spaces vs tabs argument. The only way to win the argument is to not argue.
@jjnguy I'll take that advice!
@jjnguy went to the source?
6:31 PM
@Trufa It's a good message.
@jjnguy indeed! thanks for the advice
@RebeccaChernoff Around line 180 there's a comment // Create a new method, and changing the function there to function() { var jQuery = $; var r = old.apply(this, arguments); jQuery.livequery.run(); return r; } seems to skip around whatever the Chrome bug is causing to happen.
so just add var jQuery = $;?
oh, and then the run call
I won't paste the link to onebox and NSFW but clickit to read the title caption yfrog.com/h4sy2vdj
@RebeccaChernoff Yep.
6:36 PM
Hopefully that should resolve the problem for the moment.
seems to agree?
does seem to agree! (:
When .apply() randomly destroys the outer scopes, it seems to at least leave the local scope intact, so assigning the jQuery reference to a local variable before that step seems to prevent it from causing an issue.
console windor is clear of errors
6:38 PM
I wish SO would offer caas (chat as a service). Now that I've gotten used to it, I miss it at work.
Still need to figure out why .apply() does that so I can report it, but.
".apply() randomly destroys the outer scopes" <-- not a phrase that seems like something I want to encounter.
Originally I thought maybe the call stack was getting too deep and it was screwing up, but if you walk through the code with the debugger, this never happens.
@TimPost what's that quote about the best products often start out as features?
So it seems like more of an obscure timing issue.
6:40 PM
@KentFredric I would actually prefer to see that as the bugtracker info myself
@KentFredric Yeah, I wasn't too thrilled about it either. ;)
We use Skype for collaboration with distributed teams, which sucks.
If they bundled this into kiln, and tied copilot into it, I'd buy it. I seriously would.
That basically gets rid of team viewer and skype, makes it relatively OS agnostic and all you need is a browser.
@TimPost so I'm not the only one that often makes the mistake of confusing FogCreek and SOIS because of Joel's involvement in both?
But yes, I agree. If they would build this into the FogBugz/Kiln product series ... zomg
No, I realize the distinction. That was mostly wishful thinking 'out loud'
Yeah, it would rule
and then tie in kiln's trackability to projects
6:47 PM
You could get interesting metrics, like how long a certain bug or feature has been discussed
Even when I go to the office (which is rare), everyone is quietly screaming at each other over Skype / IM
Programmers hate blocking tasks. I hate talking on the phone almost as much as I hate meetings.
Phone... sobs
@TimPost I'm pretty sure those are subclasses of the same parent: extends UnproductiveTime implements ISocialInteraction
When I'm sitting here figuring out just why certain exceptions can't be handled with OpenSSL in python, the last thing I want to hear about is progress or some other idea on an unrelated issue. Interruptions are insipidly difficult to manage when done in person.
Unless you have a big fat "(X) Dismiss" on your forehead (and don't mind a really hard click), don't bug me in person when I'm working :)
Skype-- # a blocking task.
Having to wait for the other person to be done talking so I can say my piece sucks
Well, don't blame Skype for that. It's a feature of all verbal communication, not the software.
6:58 PM
/me blames human development for tailoring people to be more vocally/acoustically oriented on average than they are visually oriented.
Okay, who was responsible for implementing human development?
Jeoff Atwood. Blame him. File a bug. =p
Thats what you get when you only spend 6-8 weeks on something that has to last 60-80 years.
Quick question. Was there a rep recalc lately? I noticed my rep took ~500 point hit. :-P
@ChrisJesterYoung it happens on a semi-regular basis. The best thing is just to rep-recalc yourself on a regular basis anyways
@drachenstern Are you sure?
7:05 PM
@jjnguy not entirely
@ChrisJesterYoung Happens automatically if you are the victim of serial voting in either direction.
@ChrisJesterYoung I feel your pain. I stand to lose ~500 as well. Hoping to hit 30k first.
Not sure if that was the case for you, personally, of course.
@PopularDemand Ah, makes sense (yes, someone serial-downvoted me yesterday).
7:05 PM
@drachenstern I'm almost positive it doesn't happen regularly at all
@ChrisJesterYoung That's the reason then.
@jjnguy Cool.
@jjnguy Good luck! Hope you get your 30k. :-D
@drachenstern That sounds like a sensible strategy...for paying taxes. :-D
@ChrisJesterYoung Thanks.
Space unicorn... soaring through the stars...
delivering the rainbows all around the world...
@ChrisJesterYoung Wait, people still care about the rep game these days? sheesh
@jjnguy a) I did say only semi-regularly, and b) apparently there are activities that will spark it off, as noted above, which is probably the source of my misinformation
7:10 PM
@Pollyanna Win. :-D
@KentFredric I don't really care, no. But that's because I have enough rep not to care. :-P
@drachenstern Fair enough.
@KentFredric If a rep recalc caused you to lose your 10k benefits, though, you might care.
@ChrisJesterYoung I'd be all "Thats lame, but I wasn't using them anyway"
@KentFredric Heh. (BTW, your absence in the channel is noted. :-P)
Hi again! :)
7:12 PM
@ChrisJesterYoung Yeah, too many IRC windows gets bothersome -_-
@KentFredric Aww.
there is never such a thing ):
@RebeccaChernoff I once mentioned to Jeff that I used to have 350 tabs open on my Firefox.
@ChrisJesterYoung irssi is great, but when you're >20 channels and switching to the next channel is "/win 21" instead of just "alt+key" , you're not happy with it.
@KentFredric I'm used to it. (30 irssi windows open at the mo, most of them PM windows.)
7:14 PM
@ChrisJesterYoung I may have to tell PETA about that.
@PopularDemand Yeah, incendiary canines are awesome and shouldn't have tabs opened on them.
@TimStone I just returned, you around?
@PopularDemand Mozilla Firefox doesn't fall into PETA's definition of animals. :-P
Yeah, what's up?
Ah, just checking re: Gaming's town hall
7:16 PM
@KentFredric Firefox is actually a red panda.
@ChrisJesterYoung Its actually the previous CEO's haircut.
@KentFredric Wow. Hardcore.
Did you have questions about the proposed new format @TimStone?
No, I don't think so
@ChrisJesterYoung i.imgur.com/z8Nu9.png # seriously.
7:18 PM
Ok cool. Actually this doesn't make sense to discuss here
@KentFredric O_o
Look! This guy has two diamonds!
@Nyuszika7H Freeeak
Hmm, have we got any administrators on SE 2.0 sites?
7:25 PM
@Nyuszika7H same as trilogy
@badp Hmm?
@Nyuszika7H Nope. The admins are basically the emplyees of sois
@jjnguy Aka Agent Smith. All $BIGNUM of them. :-P
@ChrisJesterYoung Exactly
7:31 PM
A: Why did the red pop-up box turn orange?

gnostradamusI'm guessing it was changed to better match the color scheme for SO (i.e. the same color as the upvotes, the highlighted menu options, the overflowing stacks in the logo, etc.).

> +1 for “overflowing stacks” :P – Nyuszika7H 1 minute ago
@Nyuszika7H Actually, it's because the site drank some orange Kool-Aid.
> Fractals. They're porn for techies. Well, truth be told, porn is porn for techies. But fractals aren't far behind.
Ironically, I only read the first two sentence before scrolling down to look at the shines. I took issue w/ that 2nd sentence, saying to myself "Actually, porn is porn for techies, but whatever."
Mmmm. Recursive bodily organs.
@GeorgeMarian If you had fractals combined with porn, you'd totally be there.
7:40 PM
wonders if there's a business plan buried in that idea
@GeorgeMarian hey!
@Trufa hola
envisions the recursive tree of phallus
@GeorgeMarian hehe como estas?
@KentFredric That's not exactly what I had in mind. :)
@Trufa Bien, y tu?
(I know a wee bit of spanish, but just a wee bit. High school was a long time ago.)
7:42 PM
@GeorgeMarian I was about to ask whether you were abusing translate.google.com hehe
@ChrisJesterYoung LOL
@GeorgeMarian "I hurd you like porn and recursion" ... -> logical conclusion -> $something_unpleasant overflow.
@Nyuszika7H -1 disables useful feature
@badp Its just CSS =)
7:47 PM
@badp I wouldn't actually do that on my site… and you can't vote for chat messages! :P
but yes, if you disable my resize, I'll use firebug to bring it right back again.
jQuery('textarea').css('resize', 'resize');
Most useful application of it is when combined with either "horizontal" or "vertical"-only size restrictions so resizing it doesn't break your layout.
jQuery('textarea').css('resize', 'horizontal'); # values are ['none','both','horizontal', 'vertical' ]
@KentFredric Hmm, it seems both and resize are the same.
I think the "resize" value works because its not a value, which will probably make it go into error state and be the same as "inherit"
and the inherit value => both
7:55 PM
@KentFredric ahha
suggests you try ('resize', 'yomomma') and see if the same thing happens
could be wrong, its happened before ;)
@badp Me!
7:58 PM
Oh, web apps? pssh
Oh wow!
I do not have the rep requirement though :(
@jjnguy That's understandable, it's Web Apps.
7:59 PM
@TimStone haha
I'm glad I'm not going to be the one checking the [facebook] tag.
Hi :) Happy Monday !
@ChrisJesterYoung are you there and do you have electricity?
@TheRenamedException Hey... did your boss change his mind?
@Fosco haha no I don't think so, he's just been overwhelmed :-/
8:14 PM
@TheRenamedException Yes and yes.
@KentFredric: Let's have a chat:
@TheRenamedException Ok, thanks..
Cmon Gaming ask faster!
@ChrisJesterYoung Hm. No power here for at least 15 minutes!
@TheRenamedException Yipes!
@ChrisJesterYoung I know!
Must be the Duke+Progress Energy merger :-p
8:19 PM
@TheRenamedException Hahahaha. Is your office on Duke or Progress?
Ah. /me is on Duke.
must be why :-) I'm sure this is some wahoo crashing into a power pole nearby or something
in WebApps on The Stack Exchange Network Chat, 15 mins ago, by Barry
So....um.... there are 3 nominations and 3 mod positions available. What's the purpose of the Election?
and the lights are back on again! \o/
8:31 PM
Power outage at Newark Airport.
@badp this confuses me
8:42 PM
@ChrisJesterYoung sure enough "a vehicle damaged some of our equipment" was the message from the power company
Yeesh. Get a local meetup, you two.
@TheRenamedException Fail. :-(
@balpha That's a significant discrepancy in the story
all caused by confusing "th" and "s" :)
which, fwiw, is a classical problem of many germans when they speak english
8:47 PM
@balpha It's called lisping (at least for the reverse issue). :-P
because we don't have the "th" sound in german
@balpha You can tell an old person wrote the original story. Anyone born after 1980 would've said "PICS OR IT DIDN'T HAPPEN" during the interview.
@balpha Don't be ridiculous. How would he produce pigs? They all floated away!
sighs Why can't "I'll take care of it" ever be the end of the discussion?
8:51 PM
@TimStone How will you take care of it? When? Why? Details, we want details!
@GeorgeMarian Rule 42 isn't it?
@PopularDemand I see you've met my coworkers
This is ancient, but it somehow escaped my notice until just now:
Q: Convincing a Stack Overflow user to switch careers

SLaksI would not have believed that someone could finish an entire website without understanding that there are two different machines involved - a client and a server. The story that follows has been deduced from this user's question history and apparent overall intelligence. It is not guaranteed t...

@drachenstern No matter what it is, there's porn of it somewhere on the internet?
@drachenstern Those were your coworkers? HA! HAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
@drachenstern Yeah, I know.
9:04 PM
@PopularDemand sadly. Who's working the tap? :p
@drachenstern Not me. I'm headed out.
@PopularDemand rofl. Awesome.
> Ex: for ($i = 0; $i < count($a); $i++) {
sigh That's from the Zend PHP 5.3 Study Guide.
@GeorgeMarian aside from being lazy, I like it. And actually that should be threadsafe, assuming count(var) is threadsafe, because it won't keep going should a suddenly decrease in size.
Or is there something I'm missing aside from the lazy?
It's a bad practice. The size of the array won't change in the course of one request.
9:18 PM
Even if the for loop does something to reduce or truncate the size of a?
what if the purpose of the loop is to prune a, and it used cheap mechanical tricks to reduce a while using a? (granted, I would build a new list and discard a after the loop)
That's a different issue, which brings along it's one set of issues. :)
Its not smart to modify an array you're iterating anyway.
especially in PHP
It's better to just create a new array (in most cases).
Good example of nighmares that will occur: inject a value at '2' some time after you iterated past '4'.
> On Stack Exchange, an inquirer asks the right age to begin Jedi training, with apparent experts providing answers.
user image
9:30 PM
Oh boy, apparently I've been trying to figure out these Chrome JavaScript issues for too long....just tried to write console.log() in my Java code.
BTW, apparently Java has a similar large floating point number bug as PHP: theregister.co.uk/2011/02/07/java_denial_of_service_bug
Yeah, that blob of code is used everywhere
@GeorgeMarian This article is great just because of this part:
> Bryan Sullivan, a senior security researcher at Adobe Systems, has dubbed the bugs...
9:43 PM
They've finally revealed the official title for the Eunuch Paralympics - http://twitpic.com/3xdrcx
I like your new Gravatar @balpha
thanks. It needed an update :)
@Yij There's something very wrong with the way the election watcher fetches primary votes
Also, there's something wrong with the way the election page handles primaries for me
When I reload, the vote arrows are always on a neutral state even if I've already voted for the person. This causes all kinds of weird situations.
Say, Grace has a +11. I upvote her: +12. I refresh. Grace now appears to be +12 with no vote from me. I upvote her: +13. I refresh: +12 and no vote from me.
...no longer. Thank you :)
@rchern Will you give us an interview? confirm: http://tinyurl.com/4jthenu
9:53 PM
And now I'm on win7 :D
@RebeccaChernoff huh?
Still transferring files off the old HDD behind me, and damnit I can hear the disk whirring. I think that machine is shortly to be cut for the scrap heap :\
@GeorgeMarian That was my reaction. (;
Fair enough.
10:05 PM
@RebeccaChernoff Can you confirm whether that the API returning no +/- split votes for the nomination questions is a bug or not?
The election posts - they no longer return split up/downvotes when accessed through the API
10:13 PM
I suspect it's by design to prevent "pile on" down-voting
10:24 PM
I'm not sure meetings are supposed to last that long...
I did nothing else today
10:41 PM
I wish I could get this driver installed correctly. ):
@RebeccaChernoff oh no, you're still struggling with that? )-:
I haven't for several hours, was feeling lucky and ran the installer again. Cuz ya know, the 13th time is a charm, right?
@RebeccaChernoff What OS? WIndows 7?
@Moshe on no you didendt just post a yahoo answers link!!!!
@TheRenamedException yeah, I have an older version of this and if I run this, the Program Compatibility Assistant warns that it didn't install correctly, and the device manager says the old version is still uninstalled. So that's where I'm digging now.
10:50 PM
Sorry, I am probably being repetitive, but did you uninstall, reboot, and see if it could then be installed?
@RebeccaChernoff do you run it as administrator by right click (dumb questions always help - is the power cord plugged in? you're not putting it in backwards are you? ~ I've been bitten by both of those often enough)
@TheRenamedException Thought the content was funny.
Q: System Tray Balloon Notifications from Adobe Air?

Josiah SpragueIs it possible to make an Adobe Air app create a native windows balloon notification/tooltip? I know it is possible to make a window appear in the corner, but I would like to use native windows notifications.

@Moshe I know, the above was my lame attempt at humor
@TheRenamedException Ok
I triggered a recalc and lost 2 rep Oh noes!
10:53 PM
@TheRenamedException You forgot to pull Pikachu back first.
And, you folks can upvote my wonderful (borrowed) answer if you feel so inclined. Or, worse, click the link so I can get one of them badges, if enough people click on it.)
@Moshe I don't think that works on oneboxing
1 hour ago, by Popular Demand
This is ancient, but it somehow escaped my notice until just now:
@TheRenamedException Yup, when it finishes the reboot, it starts installing the old version of the driver for me since it detects the hardware. (:
@PopularDemand I just looked through that user's activity and found this nugget. I especially love @Will's comment
@drachenstern Yes, yes, no. (:
10:57 PM
Q: can we use wordpress in asp.net?

Surya sasidharhi, can i user or integrate wordpress in asp.net, thanking you.

@RebeccaChernoff lmao, the other two were examples of where it benefitted me someone to ask those :p
What happens if you uninstall and reboot into safe mode, does it go ahead and install it for you there too?
there's a way to remove the driver from the registry but it's all dark magic and juju and voodoo
Also, I've rebooted more times today than I generally care to, ever.

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