« first day (173 days earlier)      last day (4783 days later) » 

6:02 AM
He was posting on twitter 9 hours ago, apparently. So he still appears to exist in some form. I haven't heard anything else since the unicorn room the other day...
@mootinator, ok, and I just read the transcript. He's alive and not in hospital, so that sounds good, I guess.
And where's the question @Rebecca was referring to?
1 hour ago, by Rebecca Chernoff
aww, Jeff closed the edit approval privs question ):
ok, found it :)
Q: Why are users with edit privileges being blocked by users without edit privileges?

Mark ESo it's great that our whole community is now able to provide edit suggestions, but the decision to limit one-click approval status to moderators is causing me some heartburn. Much to my surprise, today I encountered a nearly-good edit, one that I was about to make, and rather than be able to ...

The "close as too localized because we haven't finished yet" seems a bit... strange. "Wait until we've finished doing it wrong to tell us we're doing it wrong" :)
Subversive thought of the day: If Jeff was in the moderator elections, would he get elected? :)
@Benjol I don't think that would have fit as nicely in the close reason box ;)
It should have been closed as not a real question because it was complaining about not a real feature.
6:10 AM
I'm still confused if I should agree with Jeff there, or disagree :P
Working my way to 300 answers, wondering if an android would be easier to use to type...
At 160 now.
Or "we opened this functionality so you would try it out, but we don't want your feedback" :)
perhaps chat is the desired venue for pre-release discussion?
(can't help but notice waffles lurking here)
I think it's a shame the question was closed because I'd like to know the reasoning behind that design decision.
I can think of good*ish* reasons.
6:21 AM
Fire away...
But prepare to be closed as "not a good reason" :)
A 2k user is more likely to put less effort (and/or expertise) into approving edits than they would making edits.
What do you mean? They're less likely to bother at all, or they're going to do it, but not very well?
More likely to approve bad edits on questions they aren't an expert on than make bad edits on any questions.
Q: iphone programming

user564963i want to implement a searchBar as similar to google search bar ? is there any sample code how to do that

All wrong. That's all wrong. The question. The answer. The comment. The downvote. Wrong.
You can't downvote an answer to a question like that.
@mootinator Why would they even bother? If it's not in one of their tags, I don't see why they'd bother to even look at the edits.
6:29 AM
@Benjol I'm assuming for the sake of argument they're a badge whore.
@mootinator, that doesn't really computer for me. If they're a badge whore with 2k rep, then they'd already be doing rubbish edits to get Strunk & White, so the problem is pre-existing.
Closed as not a good reason then :)
I'd agree with @mootinator, people do many things even when there's no clear reason for them to. The only issue I had with the question being closed is whether or not the edit is actually blocked by that pending approval...if it is, and that thing is turned on all the time now (which maybe waffles is still only doing in in small time frames), that's kind of a big problem.
Also, I suppose it's not really a design decision until the design is decided. ;)
@TimStone, I'm guessing it's temporary until we see a 'pending edits' tab in /review
otherwise it's spectacularly undiscoverable...
Yeah, I haven't been browsing about enough to notice either way.
Provided that people aren't being seriously edit-blocked now though, I'm inclined to agree with Jeff. Once there's indication that it's more stable, I'm sure the feedback will pour in.
6:35 AM
@TimStone, it ain't gonna pour in if the first attempts at feedback get closed ;)
Is this normal? A guy writes an incomplete answer so I posted a more complete answer. He downvotes and leaves commentary on all of the other answers.
A: How to resign or hide the keyboard?

MosheAs others have said, you can hide the keyboard through the UITextFieldDelegate protocol and through a [texfField resignFirstResponder] method. Alternatively, as vfn suggested, you can prevent thE keyboard from showing altogether. For that button though, you are young to want to set the clearBut...

To be fair, he wasn't wrong, but it's a bit obnoxious. IMHO.
The downvote, or the comments? If he wasn't wrong, I don't see the problem. The tone doesn't seem obnoxious
If he was right that your answer was wrong, then his behaviour is [status-bydesign], it's what should happen.
Ok. My answer is not wrong. He didn't answer the entire question, although his partial answer was better in what it did address.
It is kind of annoying when someone picks out part of your question not really important to the answer which might be imperfect, downvotes you for it, then doesn't remove the downvote when you fix it.
But c'est la vie.
6:46 AM
I find all people on SO annoying, myself included
I almost can't read a single question without becoming annoyed at someone or something
@DanGrossman I agree with this wholeheartedly.
Not that you're annoying, specifically, but that everyone, including myself is.
I'm very annoying
I have to go to sleep and stop answering questions so late at night. But then again, I do need to catch up ny q to a ratio.
You re both annoying in that I have no stars to star your admissions of fault. I'm annoyed that I can't star them. @Tyler, pin please?
People need to stop upvoting me on a particular question I won't be able to keep the rep for. Futility.
@Moshe lol
Which question?
Nice. Gnight.
Someone called?
7:18 AM
There are a decreasing number of nominees who I would be unhappy to see elected.
Currently BenjolApproved™ nominees: Tim Post, George Stocker, Justin 'jjnguy' Nelson, Robert Harvey, Michael Mrozek, Lasse V. Karlsen
(The idea of someone who doesn't even have a meta account being elected horrifies me)
elections now show meta info
we felt that was probably the most important stat beyond the user card itself
Justin and George are absolutely killing in the meta stats
7:35 AM
@JeffAtwood I guess MSO activity is only counted for SO
very nice btw
@Jeff, glad you agree with me :)
I've looked at the number of [status-accepted], George rocks for that as well. 11 questions, IIRC
let me see if Yi's cool page is loading or not..
@JeffAtwood, it always loads, now that @Dan is hosting it :)
Please wait, Reticulating Splines
Loading elections page using YQL
Loading user profile on main site
Loading user tag information
Loading badge information
Loading Meta profiles
Loading user activity
it just hangs there for me
Weird, I've never had that, even when it was on dropbox.
Just tried again. Works on my machine :)
7:39 AM
Yi blamed YQL I think, but there's a cached version of each page available
ok so I load the page..
I click "Programmers"...
then it just says the above please wait stuff and nothing happens
@DanGrossman, the cached link is just #, how does that work?
trying the page in Chrome Incognito mode just in case
@Dan, ok. @Jeff, does cached work for you?
7:41 AM
well it could be our changes to the page broke this.. does it work for anyone else?
it works fine for me
what browser?
hmm, me too.. doesn't load either normal or incognito.. are you clicking "programmers"?
Yeah, page loaded okay
7:42 AM
yes, all of them work
Programmers loaded fine too.
is it something flashblock would block?
I don't think so.
that's all I get
7:45 AM
I get the same behavior in Firefox
it also works in firefox for me, tried that
do you have firebug? you could probably figure out what ajax request is failing or something
this page is a bag of fail for me.. and I have no idea why
Works for me in chrome and firefox, I've tried SO and programmers so far
it can't be my identity, it also fails in chrome incognito
@JeffAtwood it's using your connection; could it be that the employers'...
oh well.
7:47 AM
Yahoo is blocking your IP :)
@JeffAtwood, if you did manage to work out why it wasn't working, it would probably help Yi a lot. Difficult to debug a problem you can't reproduce.
it's not a browser thing, so it has to be something about my IP or connection
Chrome's developer tools, turn on resource tracking, look at which request fails or has an empty body. It's probably your connection to YQL since it doesn't make it past the first step.
also fails in Opera 11
shocking, I know
@balpha, hi, can you get Yi's page to load?
yeah, works fine for me
7:50 AM
Does clicking the "static version" link help?
I've tried all 6 and no problems, even pretty snappy for the smaller sites
I guess the SO api has blacklisted Jeff's IP
Well I get the same thing here in oz - if it helps the only request it makes is to
it knows he's up to nothing but trouble
With the response document
7:50 AM
It's, um, quite outdated but...
ah yes, it's not calling the api directly obviously
I get a huge response from that same URL
soooooo, Yahoo!'s fault
Yahoo fails, that's no news to whoever tried to use anything cool of theirs like Pipes
then again he didn't have a lot of choices
Yeah, if I run that I get the same result.
7:53 AM
@badp But why would it fail systematically for some, and never for others?
because Yahoo sucks?
@badp, broken for me, your link
@Benjol it is, minimarkdown swallowed a few asterisks
7:55 AM
@badp That last one just returned an empty document after a short delay - all of these are 200 OK btw.
@Kragen as I mentioned, the URL was wrong
@waffles that's not his problem...
hmm, someone's crawling something odd, I Just got an automatic e-mail from an old script notifying me that a database server I no longer run is down
All this just to avoid parsing html with regex :)
It's not like Yi didn't have trouble with malformed HTML in the profile of jQuery/Javascript/HTML people :)
7:57 AM
fyi ... I just deployed a new version of suggested edits, feedback on the new side-by-side diff welcome ... also html side-by-side coming soon
@waffles I'll try one on Physics that itched me, then :)
@badp its only enabled on SO
@waffles, is there any easier way for us to find pending edits than to create them ourselves by logging on anonymously?
oh well.
7:58 AM
I can not monitor all the sites, besides I do not have the domain knowledge
@Benjol , the queue is empty at the moment anyway
@waffles, ok...
there will be a way easier way (the /review route) but that is coming soon
breaks out IE
@Benjol stackoverflow.com/review/suggested-edits gives a 404 with your user bar at the top, classic "you're not sexy enough for this" wall :)
@waffles. Edit > CAPTCHA > LOLCAT :(
8:03 AM
no ... let me look at the log
yeah ... I see it ... something to do with the captcha ... testing
wtf ... I can not even open that page in ie
not good
it's says it's not my fault, but sorry anyway :)
8:06 AM
I blame me
working on a fix
btw ... if you log on you can still see the pending edit
@waffles, I can't. On Chrome, or Firefox, I get Failcat. sorry
I've killed that poor guys question :)
WTF?! This is cited as 'criticism' on the wikipedia article for stackoverflow. I'm guessing this is the worse they could find?
How to get answers accepted on StackOverflow? Answer as quickly as possible with any old crap. Fast is better than right, apparently.
lol seriously?
The only other is this: artifactconsulting.com/lapeira/…
which is just a rant about having been screwed by experts and not trusting stackexchange. closed to comments, obviously.
Reading the bits on Notability on the talk page is a pretty good laugh too! :o)
8:11 AM
@Benjol fixed
I blame caching ... its always cachings fault
He's got a point though. The absolute battle-tested best way to get more accepted answers: answer something useful as fast as possible, then after you've submitted, you can edit your answer to flesh it out. Otherwise someone else will do the same and the asker comes and sees two good answers, but theirs has an older timestamp and gets accepted.
this of course has been discussed one million times
@waffles. Some comments, if I may: I don't know if it's immediately clear that the highlighted text is the edit comment. And I wonder if it shouldn't be at the top.
ah @Benjol that's a good idea, the edit comment should be at the TOP
@JeffAtwood, precisely. Fastest Gun in the West dates back to Uservoice era. Prehistoric :)
8:13 AM
(yeah, I commented that too :|)
@waffles, and I still would prefer a side-by-side 'diff', sorry :(
@Benjol ... did you click the pencil
it is there
> We sampled votes that are casted when there is a tie before the policy change (i.e., when there was a bias towards to older answer) as well as after the policy change (i.e., when you guys started random subsorting) and showed that there is actually not a significant difference. In other words, although the public thought that there is a bias towards the fastest gun, our analysis showed that there is not really a bias towards the fastest gun.
@JeffAtwood, is there a badge for saying something you agree with? that's two strikes today :)
8:14 AM
@waffles, sorry, my eyes didn't see that, my brain thought is was the upvote/downvote buttons :)
those icons are from the ghetto
Jin is going to give us some shiny ones this week
@JeffAtwood, science also apparently thinks that the past participle of cast is casted :)
@waffles, ah, yup, that's nicer. How does it render for horrendously-long code blocks?
8:17 AM
@waffles The "tab" buttons are barely readable, but I like the different styles :)
@badp yes yes I hate those unicode icons with a passion ... Jin is going to help
@waffles, I don't know if this is by design, but just in case:
- before still has title 'diffed'
- 'after' actually shows diff
- not sure that 'diffed' markdown is more readable/useful than 'diffed' html
yeah ... I think that is by-design confusing, will fix it
- [very minor] the bottom padding is too big, feels like there's something missing
8:19 AM
This is quite readable for me :)
- [minor], would you consider hidden divs rather than ajaxing-in the tabs?
clearly I am not going to approve that @badp :)
@waffles I wondered if you were going to notice the HTML comment tbh, given that the default views are the HTML ones :)
@waffles Very nice, but can you enable it on Meta as well so people can have a play in a sandbox?
8:21 AM
I am not against enabling this on meta ... @Jeff ?
Also I'm still in favour of the diff being on a separate page - its just a tad cramped in that dialog.
“The guideline for poll questions isn’t that they are not allowed, it is that they must be constructive”

what is “constructive” to one is not to another thus subjective.


Jeff, stop. You’re acting just like all the other egoistical bitch programmers out there which make our profession a craphole to work in.

Who cares man! If it’s subjective but useful, who cares!

posted by user "SomeOneWhoIsSickOfThisLameBS"
Clearly he wants a forum with SO levels of ergonomy
...a forum, not a Q&A site
...with a Q&A's audience, not a forum's
...and maybe a couple satellites too.
@JeffAtwood, now THAT is worth citing on wikipedia ;)
@waffles Are the approve / reject buttons meant to work too? Because I've got an edit on one of my questions that I can't approve.
8:25 AM
@Kragen you can half approve it ... you need to convince a second person
@waffles Isn't that a bit pointless, being that I have the rep to manually make the change myself anyway?
also ... I need to clarify this in the UI ... Eg render "You have a approved this edit suggestion, one more vote is waiting"
@waffles, I know the question got closed as being too early to comment, but what is the reasoning? (We were speculating earlier)
Is one reject enough, though?
@JeffAtwood help
8:27 AM
When I clicked reject on my anon edit, the proposal seemed to vanish entirely
yeah ... as an post owner you have 1 vote reject
@badp, I'm guessing that maybe-just maybe- someone else rejected your html comment :)
I would not budge on that
the short version is, you will get reputation for valid edits. This creates a way to create infinite sockpuppets... with reputation... all starting with 1 rep.
@waffles no, the post wasn't mine
8:29 AM
@JeffAtwood, I'd abandon rep for edits, personally: it opens a can of worms, and then - apparently - you have to add extra worms on top...
I'm just going to reject all pending edits so I can make my doesnt-need-to-wait-for-more-approval edit :x
7 hours ago, by badp
Here's a twist. 101 rep guy edits; a 2ker approves ("Sponsors") the edit. The edit goes live immediately but remains on /review. If a second user approves the sponsored edit, the editor gets a +2 and the sponsorer advanced towards a nice sounding badge. If a second user rejects, the sponsor loses 1 rep. Or somesuch.
yes, let's make it even MORE complicated
you can always approve edits on your posts
though, I don't think we can give rep for those.
How come we have slaved all this time for love, and these young whippersnappers come along and get 'paid' for it? :(
only up to 1k rep, cap
you cannot get more than 1k rep from edits, ever
8:31 AM
@Benjol yeah heavy caps ... I also want a ratio cap
actually -- once you have 1k rep, you just don't get rep for edits any more
@JeffAtwood, get to 1k? or get 1k?
like 10% from edits max
this is a way to bootstrap new users into editors
468725: ok
8:31 AM
and at 1k you earn the right to approve other people's edits, well, it takes 2 of you
at 2k you have the right to edit anything of course
@JeffAtwood, I just totally fail to see the motivation to approve/reject edits
for me, as a 2k+ user, the frustration of not being able to complete half-assed edits is just so great I don't even want to see them.
but at 2k you don't have the right to edit something with a pending edit, or to approve a pending edit alone even though you're trusted to make your own edits without approval, it makes no sense
I'm unsure about the whole needing 2 people to approve edits - it means that posts can be essentially locked for editing until 2 people approve an edit, which is just going to be a pain.
@dan the problem is you're giving rep to others, so it's not a trusted transaction
put on your game theory hat and think for evil
you're creating two problems then, why not create none
8:33 AM
anon user could be YOU
make two accounts, get 1k on both, rep factory presto!
i don't care about giving editors rep, I just care about curating the question at hand
there's a ton of stuff to edit, you're making this theoretical assumption that YOU will be blocked
the reality is the long tail of stuff you will NEVER EVER EVER edit
"I might be blocked! ahh!"
it's the little things that make you hate a site
8:34 AM
I was a 20k+ posts member on several programming forums before SO
each screwed up in little ways over time...
you know my position on this. I will pay you to leave.
hysterics in the formative stage of a feature is just dumb anyway.
@Jeff I suppose it depends on how much it gets used. If it gets used a lot or if people suggest edits on unpopular or old questions then you might end up with a lot of locked posts - I suppose only time will tell.
yeah, but there's a fixed queue of edit slots
@JeffAtwood no it's not, because afterwards you get rejected with [status-by-design] :)
there can only be (x) suggested edits in flight at any time
8:36 AM
what happens to the old non-approved ones?
there's also a limit by IP address of how many can be in flight
@waffles is afraid of merging, but you could allow merging of edits
don't complain to me.. complain to him
@Jeff, we did. but:
10 mins ago, by waffles
@JeffAtwood help
to be fair, merging sucks even when it's easy.. and it usually isn't
You should write out edits as text files, create new git repositories for each one, and make git merge the edits, then read out the text files into SO!
@badp yes you could have multiple accounts in collusion, we're trying to avoid the simple one user case
8:39 AM
:Submits prototype to thedailywtf.com:
8 hours ago, by badp
Just make a git repo for each post! What can possibly go wrong.
If you own the post you can always reject edits
seriously, though, that's what gist.github.com does, so it's not entirely too impossible
so the only time this hypothetical would happen, is if you don't own the post and you want to edit it, but there is a suggested edit in flight
so you could vote to approve the edit, then flag it for mod attention, I suppose
or just flag it
we could potentially allow VERY high rep users to approve suggested edits, like 20k
Have you considered starting out with NOT attributing rep for edits, just to see if that will work? Seems to me that would avoid a lot of these niggles
8:42 AM
there's a lot of ways to tweak this process, but the idea that users can generate 1k (but never any more) of honorable rep through good edits, is something I feel very strongly about
so good luck changing my mind on it. You're gonna need it :)
@Jeff, Fine, but why do you feel strongly about it? Because you think that there won't be sufficient motivation otherwise? Because they 'deserve' it? Other (Please specify)?
really, for the long tail edits we are looking at, I HIGHLY doubt this "I am blocked oh noes!" scenario is going to be at all common
we COULD limit it so anon users can ONLY edit old stuff, for example.
e.g. anon users can only edit posts that are 7 days old minimum
long after you guys have forgotten it exists :)
8:45 AM
@JeffAtwood, I'm not so sure. It's not 'I was going to edit this and I'm blocked' we're concerned about, it's "I want to approve this (to get it off my 'pending edits list'), but in it's current state, it's unusable"
I would have no complaint anymore if you did that
When will StackOverflow start mailing me my badges so I can stitch them onto my sash?
this is why I don't like a lot of bitching about stuff before we've even finished it
it's all in flux
We bitch because we care :)
We probably care too much, but you're not going to complain about that are you?!
8:46 AM
(Sigh If only I could...)
don't forget my check on the way out! I pay up!
What you gonna pay me with, reps? :)
A: Help design our Stack Overflow T-Shirts

Christopher SwaseyI beg everyone's forgiveness for my TERRIBLE photoshopping skills in this mockup. Again, I'm drunk. The idea is that the badges "overflow" and wrap around the back

8:47 AM
Removing reps from people we upvoted isn't reps :(
user image
actual check
oh god
zooms and enhances on blurred sections
that is the best video ever
8:51 AM
I ran your check through an unblur filter >_>
@Jeff, seriously, right after this I'll stop bitching. I've understood that it's still in flux, I just want to be sure that you've understood what my concern is: namely that I can't 'fix' a pending edit before approving it.
I think I failed
@Benjol declines are safer and encouraged as well
@DanGrossman oh but now we know how many digits are on the bottom!
@JeffAtwood, so the short (and nasty) cut would be to decline, then edit it myself :)
ok, I can live with that. Case closed...
8:52 AM
I was surprised I couldn't find a funny "how do you unblur" question on SO/SU
now just enhance each; by each by looking at the reflection on the unicorn's horn's tip you should be able to see the cheque's reflection in the lens camera!
long tail edits is a big big deal, it is something we have wanted for a long time.. the promise of ANYONE editing ANYTHING
how else do you keep 1.3 million questions and answers up to date?
by asking moar questions!
(↑ kidding)
8:54 AM
plus, think about it as a new user.. you can make +2 rep for each GOOD edit you submit!
You hire Demand Media to put 3000 of their home workers on the job!
that's incentive to stick around and contribute
we're seeing some really good edits get submitted by low rep and anon users.. once we required a meaningful edit comment it's almost all signal
What amazes me is the number of 'fly-by' visitors there are on SO. I think @waffles said only 5% (or was it 2%?) are actually registered.
this makes the sites better for everyone, and it can bootstrap useful and productive new members of the community
I don't think any of the programmers I know have bothered to register.
8:56 AM
that's right, now they can all edit!
(although it IS weird that we allow anon and 1 rep users to edit, but not vote or comment..)
I did see a "thank you" edit which made my blood curdle a bit
if ($('#edit').val() == 'THANKS') { $.unicorns(); window.location = 'http://www.expertsexchange.com'; }
@JeffAtwood There are edge cases where allowing them to comment could prevent some noise: like when people want to ask the OP for more info on the question.
Hi there! :) Good morning!
@JeffAtwood Nice to see you there!
hi @Nyuszika7H

« first day (173 days earlier)      last day (4783 days later) »