Tavern on the Meta - 2010-10-14 (page 2 of 5)

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1:03 PM

so CW is done eh?

nice

You can still have CW answers.

that's ok, since it's optional.. I just didn't like answering a CW question (but usually didnt notice till after I did already)

so if somebody should have a close hammer

6

Q: Questions every good C/C++ Developer should be able to answer?

I was going through interview questions tag and found those question are quite useful, so in the same spirit, I am asking this question for C and C++ developers What questions do you think good C and C++ programmers should be able to answer? Looking forward for some amazing responses. Please a...

c++ c interview-questions wiki

you can begin having people get the point now

Morning.

What a lively debate. About CW. Hehe. What was the thinking behind it originally?

To shoot down questions like the one I linked I believe.

I like this post though:

9

A: What can we do to make Community Wiki better?

The problem with Community Wiki is a mentality one. Its existence is for the purpose of edit access, but people obsess over the fact it has no reputation. People view it from these tinted lens because that is how it is actively encouraged. Even the team goes around saying "If you want to make a l...

1:16 PM

@Moshe Read the oneboxed post above, it explains it.

Well, does anyone here feel like giving that poor question (in the pitying sense, not that that was a poor question. Maybe it was. Whatever) five trivial edits to push it into CW mode?

@PopularDemand - ah. Makes sense.

@YiJiang It is a poor question. It should be closed.

Well, 3 edits already, so just two more

@radp Well, unfortunately it's also getting popular

> What questions do you think good C and C++ programmers should be able to answer?

@YiJiang not a good reason in my book.

1:19 PM

So quickly close it, or it'll explode (as in, in popularity, not into a million pieces.)

It's exploded already

high time you close it.

6

A: Questions every good C/C++ Developer should be able to answer?

A bit meta, but I think still worthwhile: "What are the questions every good C/C++ Developer should be able to answer?" :) I'm serious - a good developer should be able to suggest these.

Yeah, facepalm high time this question gets closed

@YiJiang I want to downvote for abuse of the term "meta" from that onebox alone.

It's basically an answer affirming the fact that this is a bad question

Only ~48 more days until we can migrate this stuff to Prog SE. Assuming Prog SE lives.

1:25 PM

@StefanLiebenberg Thanks, I wanted to post a comment for Jeff, and I can't log in from here, ended up doing it as an anonymous answer.

Can somebody please upvote the comments that explain how this question doesn't belong?

not just mine, all of them.

status-completed

status-appreciated

Seriously, why didn't the mods put a banner somewhere announcing the change?

Lasse V. Karlsen

Which change?

17

Q: What can we do to make Community Wiki better?

Okay, what's the problem here? It's a well-known fact that the Community Wiki feature is not well-understood. Yet another “community wiki” clarification question Close as community wiki Purpose of Community Wiki? When to mark the 'community wiki' checkbox on a new question? Even "advanced" SE ...

discussion status-completed community-wiki

1:34 PM

@radp, well now it's closed anyway. RIP :)

Lasse V. Karlsen

Yeah, but what is the change? I don't see what has changed...

13

A: What can we do to make Community Wiki better?

Important Change - Status completed Users can not mark questions wiki anymore, across the network. I have an easy idea for a fix. Disable the option to mark questions community wiki by the question author. (allow them to become CW naturally if thats what GxD wants, or allow moderators to) ...

Lasse V. Karlsen

Heh, so they just disabled community wiki on questions?

Yep.

Lasse V. Karlsen

Ok... I guess that was a solution

1:37 PM

That question is about 3 seconds away from been reopened

"If a question makes you scream CW you should scream to have it closed" anyway

I'd really really hate to get into a close/reopen war now

Lasse V. Karlsen

Yeah, I agree on the problem that CW on questions is mostly used to try to avoid the question being closed

Yeah, people will complain "it's CW, what do you mean we can't discuss it?"

Post Reopened by Paul, R.., Prasoon Saurav, piemesons, Nemanja Trifunovic

after Bill the Wizard made it CW

I feel defeated :P

@radp Like I said, shouldn't get into a close/reopen war

1:39 PM

I gave it a close vote again..

yesterday was awesome.. i only spent about a half hour answering questions on SO, got a silver badge and hit the rep cap.

@radp Eh, this is a perfect candidate for being closed and reopened at least three times each.

@Fosco Yeah, keep rubbing it in, see where that gets you.

@PopularDemand higher up on the weekly rankings?

@Fosco "Hey, you know what just isn't cool"?

@PopularDemand "Getting your questions closed and reopened."

@waffles stackoverflow.com/questions/3933263/…

"Why are we talking in quotes?"

Lasse V. Karlsen

1:42 PM

That's not the right question

It should be phrased like this:

Why are "we" "talking" in "quotes"?

@Fosco It's a reference to bash.

nice, @LasseVKarlsen

Lasse V. Karlsen

You mean, "nice"? :)

5 hours ago, by Benjol

This is going to be FUN:
WikiPolice: "This question is subjective, you should make it CW"
Newbie: "How do I do that?"
WikiPolice: "You check the Community Wiki box"
Newbie: "Where?"
WikiPolice: "Under the question, stupid"
Newbie: "But there isn't one!"
WikiPolice: "Yes there is, look it's ... oh..."

Lasse V. Karlsen

Damn, raining outside, guess I can expect one wet cat shortly then :P

1:46 PM

@Benjol tsk

This is what happens instead:

WikiPolice: "This question is subjective, you should make it CW"
Newbie: "How do I do that?"
WikiPolice: "You check the Community Wiki box"
Newbie: "Where?"
WikiPolice: "Under the question, stupid"
Newbie: "But there isn't one!"
WikiPolice: "Yes there is, look it's ... oh..."
WikiPolice #2: "It's okay, this question has 25 answers already, when it hits 30 it goes CW."
WikiPolice: "Yeah, or we can edit the question till it becomes CW."
WikiPolice #2: "Yeah! We saved the day again."

Lasse V. Karlsen

So a question can still become CW when enough answers or edits accumulate?

Yes.

@LasseVKarlsen Yep, it happened on the one we were complaining about.

I think so.

@PopularDemand No, that question actually had a mod flipping the switch.

1:49 PM

@radp This is both really depressing and exactly what I expected the moment I saw that [status-completed].

@radp Oh, thanks. My brain fast-forwarded on "a question can still become CW" there.

@LasseVKarlsen Lock the door 'til it's been sunny for several hours.

Lasse V. Karlsen

hehe

Truthfully speaking we really shouldn't agree too much here, esp. on things that technically speaking are supposed to be "community decisions", lest we become the Tavern Police

Lasse V. Karlsen

Was this a community decision?

How exactly is a community decision formed? Is there a poll?

Or does someone with commit access pick the voices that agree with one's own opinion and just implement?

A community decision is formed through sufficient amounts of whining on meta.

4

Lasse V. Karlsen

No, that's not a decision

1:51 PM

@LasseVKarlsen Voting to close/reopen is in one sense that

Also, did anyone notice how the [featured] tag got added to Meta?

meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/tagged/featured

@LasseVKarlsen If your whining doesn't cause a dev to understand and agree with your point and turn it into reality, it is not sufficient.

@radp had to star that...

Lasse V. Karlsen

But if I whine enough that someone takes notice and turns it into reality, is it really a community decision?

Or is it just "he whined the loudest, and he whined last"

If your amount of whining doesn't convince others to whine with you, it isn't sufficient.

Lasse V. Karlsen

Ok, so let me ask again

Was this a community decision?

1:53 PM

@LasseVKarlsen - Loud whining wins, unfortunately

@LasseVKarlsen - Whatever the mods say it is.

Lasse V. Karlsen

That's not community

Yeah, now @PopularDemand will need to help waffles sustain the backslash

@LasseVKarlsen the topic has been discussed by the community for months

@Lasse, honest question, not sarcasm: how do you define "community decision"?

Lasse V. Karlsen

I don't know

@LasseVKarlsen "With sufficiently loud whining, your personal opinion becomes indistinguishable becomes community decisions" With apologies to Arthur C. Clarke

Lasse V. Karlsen

1:54 PM

It's a serious question, how to define a decision decided upon by the community

To be honest, if you had to have a poll to allow all kinds of subjective questions on StackOverflow, it'd pass

Lasse V. Karlsen

I would just be a bit careful with throwing around that "this is for and by the community" when in reality, there is no definition for what that is, and it is clear that whatever the community says might be overruled anyway

"yay more is better!"

Lasse V. Karlsen

Note, I don't disagree with removing CW on questions

@PopularDemand Create a poll, let the community vote on what they think are the correct answer/part-answer. That's the first one that comes to mind

Lasse V. Karlsen

1:55 PM

I disagree with someone with commit access just doing it

@LasseVKarlsen searching "this is for and by the community" gives me this line

Lasse V. Karlsen

That wasn't a direct quote mind you

anyway, have you read the posts and questions that led waffles to flip the switch?

3

Q: I can make any question Community-Wiki?

See also http://meta.stackoverflow.com/posts/67604/revisions for a proof-of-concept. It seems that, the community-wiki checkbox is only hidden for general users, but it is not validated on server-side. This makes it possible for the client side to inject the CW checkbox and force a question to ...

bug community-wiki privileges

cringes Why are programmers so lazy? (rhetorical question, don't answer)

resists getting involved, still headsore

Lasse V. Karlsen

1:57 PM

There has been too many (in my opinion) "decisions" lately that it seems that SOSI is sometimes forgetting that it is supposed to be for the community, and not be the community

Or is that SOIS? I forget

@LasseVKarlsen IS - Internet Services

Lasse V. Karlsen

Ok

And again, note that I'm not disagreeing with the removal of CW on questions

@LasseVKarlsen After 1.5 years on SO, I have some serious reservations about some things. I say remove CW

@LasseVKarlsen Actually, it's "stack overflow internet services, inc", so SOIS inc.

lol, here's Juan Manuel explaining his view on the migration paths from Gaming:

> How do I play sc2 while riding a bicycle, chatting in proper English while managing to keep my job as a webmaster mathematician (or should I begin working on my start up?)? Should I post this to my wordpress blog? – Juan Manuel♦ 4 mins ago

2:01 PM

he missed a few.. but still funny.

I know

The Unhandled Exception

Good morning everyone

Hi Josh

The Unhandled Exception

Hey there. How are you @Fosco?

@AidenBell I think it's useful to be able to be able to write an answer that everybody can edit (well at least almost everyone.).

2:04 PM

@TheUnhandledException very well, thx.. you?.. any XMPP progress?

@Georg - true. But if mods can't be consistent with how much "communtiy" should be reflected in Q&A then there shouldn't be any.

The Unhandled Exception

@Fosco Doing better thanks. Started getting really over is last night.

@Fosco No XMPP progress, this has been a crazy week as I'm trying to get everything done -- taking next week off

Look for some XMPP progress next week, since I won't have pesky work responsibilities :-)

> How do I programmatically move the paddle in pong while microwaving my leased iPod connected via VPN to an Ubuntu client with horrible UI that is receiving geotagged photos of brownian-motion-moving flashes in O(n log² n) without harming my unicorn-branded Android-powered robot bicycle unit?

2

The Unhandled Exception

At the moment all I have is an XMPP conf room called "TheTavern" which does... nothing

@radp jQuery?

@TheUnhandledException Obviously.

The Unhandled Exception

2:06 PM

OK. Just making sure we were clear ;-)

@radp +1, though I think you missed RPG there

The Unhandled Exception

And yes, you are #1 on chat XD

@AidenBell is there an alternative to CWs? especially for answers which are composed of multiple answers I can't imagine living without CW.

The Unhandled Exception

And congrats to @rchern for passing @Ivo to reach #2

She'll soon supass you @radp

Chatty Cathy...

@TheUnhandledException Definitely, in terms of stars :P

2:07 PM

@TheUnhandledException Super User Password her!

@YiJiang Don't worry, I was too lazy to answer you anyways.

@Georg - the real question is "is there an alternative to mods" lol

Lasse V. Karlsen

@Georg It's still possible to mark answers as CW, isn't it?

anarchy!

@LasseVKarlsen it is.

Yeah, I wonder if @The is up to the newest news about the newest feature hiding

The Unhandled Exception

2:09 PM

@radp New features? I'm all ears

@)

@TheUnhandledException Askers can no longer mark their question CW by using the checkmark.

enjoy your new feature!

The Unhandled Exception

heh

Since when is removing a feature... a feature?

Lasse V. Karlsen

You mean, they are "no more"? seeing as apparently the code is still in there :)

The Unhandled Exception

And when did this happen? last night?

Today morning.

The Unhandled Exception

2:11 PM

Ah

I think the name was confusing as hell

I think they served a purpose...

32

A: Should the community wiki police be shut down?

Important change End users can not mark questions wiki anymore, so the only appropriate way to get action on a question you believe really should be wiki, is to flag it for moderator attention. A couple points.. Vote-to-wiki will not be implemented. When the answer to a problem is "let's ma...

The Unhandled Exception

> the only appropriate way to get action on a question you believe really should be wiki, is to flag it for moderator attention

I suppose that's okay...

I'd prefer it to be a rep threshold

Like, users with >4000 or >5000 rep can make questions CW

because what it seemed to me was, it confused young users

young as in experience with the community, not calendar age

@TheUnhandledException Not going to work until we actually come up with a good definition as to what to CW and what not to. And more importantly, what really shouldn't be asked in the first place

sighs

I prefere it that way. The percentage of questions that should be CW is quite low anyway.

The Unhandled Exception

2:15 PM

@YiJiang Yes, I see your point

I've only every used CW twice I think, so I really don't have a strong opinion

The feedbot just got activated, yet I see no new feed posts. What's wrong?

@YiJiang where? you mean on the side?

@radp The row of user icons. Every time someone say something, that user's icon get's shifted to the top

status-norepro

@YiJiang When someone loads certain older posts, Feeds gets used.

2:18 PM

@YiJiang It means someone is looking at an old transcript, and the feedbot is updating old information.

@lurker we've busted you!

Marc explained a few days ago about how Amazon oneboxes need to be updated after 24 hours, or something like that.

@PopularDemand @Fosco Well that explains it

g'morning

... is the OP on this C/C++ question the "big bro" guy?

2:18 PM

Also, the autosuggest gave me @Feeds as an option

@rchern Hi there (:

see? I @-reply a lurker and up! comes @rchern.

Might want to add that as a bug to the Chat Feedback

o:

@radp Well actually I think I was the one that activated it. I clicked through to look at @balpha's pinned message in full

2:22 PM

/blame @YiJiang

@PopularDemand It is!

/blame @rchern "Backward facing emoticons are the source of all evil on this Earth and shall be banished!"

The Unhandled Exception

Good morning @rchern

@YiJiang They confuse a lot of people but evil is a touch string dontcha think?

I like a good "you're doing it wrong!" as much as the next guy, but it's really just terrible to yell that incorrectly.

Lasse V. Karlsen

Agh, Windows Live Sync closing down

2:26 PM

@TheUnhandledException Hyperbole/Running Gag. Are we getting a little too serious in here?

The Unhandled Exception

@YiJiang NO! YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG!!!!

I'm almost never serious in here

@TheUnhandledException So was I. Dammit... how many times do I have to cripple my own and other's jokes?

The Unhandled Exception

Only in The Roach Motel, and that will soon be moved to chat.stackoverflow.com and then I can be serious only under @Josh, and always silly under @The

@YiJiang better now?

@TheUnhandledException Much. No, I mean MUCH

The Unhandled Exception

Great! :-)

2:30 PM

I wonder if special Wikipedia links work here

Wikipedia:Lamest edit wars

Occasionally, even experienced lose their heads and devote every waking moment to over the most trivial thing. This page documents our lamest examples. It isn't comprehensive or authoritative, but it serves as a showcase of situations where people lose sight of the big picture and obsessively expend huge amounts of energy fighting over something that, in the end, isn't really so important. Back in the good old days, people would just get out their swords and guns and fight a duel; nowadays physical combat has been replaced by careful inciting of , strategic templating and , timely ...

Yes it does!

Some of these really are bad

The Unhandled Exception

To be serious for a moment, I would love some constructive criticism of some of my recent edits. Do they look good? Should I focus attention elsewhere? Should I continue on as I have been? Etc.

> A lame edit war started in the wee hours of the morning on May 31, 2008 (for those in UTC) over whether or not the article should state that, from a certain angle, a cluster bomb resembles a certain part of the male body.

The Unhandled Exception

@YiJiang It should not

@TheUnhandledException "Using <del>a </del>jQuery UI Dialog"

No need for that a there - Using jQuery Dialog should be more general

The Unhandled Exception

Thanks. I'm not a jQuery expert

That was one I was very unclear on. I commented:

> You said "The title say everything exept one thing", but I didn't understand what the title said. I changed it to: "Using a jQuery UI Dialog, how can I load content from another webpage?". Is that what you're asking?

2:42 PM

in full disclosure, i'm being lazy and haven't searched yet...

is there an easy way to have a div's height be bounded by the bottom of the window and then overflow?

it isn't an outer div, it's an autocomplete div

@rchern CSS? Javascript? What type of solution are you looking for?

css would seem better

The Unhandled Exception

So you want it to stop at the bottom of the window and have a vertical scrollbar @rchern?

@rchern If you're talking about the jQuery UI autocomplete dialog box, then jQuery would of course be the best solution, since the position of that box and it's dimensions are dynamic

The Unhandled Exception

Is the box absolute positioned @rchern?

I can think of a JS solution

not a pure CSS one

2:45 PM

@TheUnhandledException If she's talking about the jQuery UI one, then it will be

yeah, that's the one

The Unhandled Exception

@rchern "bounded by the bottom of the window", so if it's less than the height of the window, it shouldn't be at the bottom?

it just grows until it hits the bottom?

@TheUnhandledException They seem reasonable to me.

The Unhandled Exception

Thanks @PopularDemand

i've added autocomplete on the user field rather than inputting your id. and depending on your search there could be lots of results. doesn't seem to make sense for that div to extend so you have to scroll the whole window

The Unhandled Exception

2:47 PM

I enjoy editing but I have this (small) fear I'm just mucking things up, like some confirmation I'm actually making the site a better place with my edits :-)

@rchern I think you should set the minlength high enough that that won't happen normally

The Unhandled Exception

I think JS is the way to go @rchern -- although if anyone has a pure CSS solution I'll be impressed!

Or maybe just show 10 results and put at the bottom "and 2000 more results"

@TheUnhandledException Not much point... the whole dialog box is positioned and has it's dimensions set with JS, so why look for a CSS solution?

The Unhandled Exception

or use JS to set max-height to viewport.height - top

@YiJiang because:

6 mins ago, by rchern

css would seem better

otherwise, I'd go JS :-D

@TheUnhandledException Not very possible, given that the height is set in stone... figuratively

2:53 PM

@YiJiang I'd love it if some attributes could be set in stone, literally, some day. Can we get a programming language that requires chiseled granite tablets as input?

@PopularDemand Because const just won't do for some people? Oh I see, even more literal than that...

The Unhandled Exception

@PopularDemand sQuery?

@TheUnhandledException Nope, sQuarry.

instantrimshot.com

The Unhandled Exception

@PopularDemand far better

@PopularDemand collective groan

The Unhandled Exception

2:55 PM

@PopularDemand That should be a chat meme/easter egg

@rchern did my JS idea make sense? It was very loosely described. I could easily whip up some code for you, but it would be Prototype.js based which doesn't help you :-/

@PopularDemand did you ever manage to figure out how the gaming egg worked?

@TheUnhandledException I stand by my... stance that showing less/not showing for large result set will... result in a better user experience

The Unhandled Exception

@YiJiang I agree with you

displaying >50 results is nearly pointless

but I'm a programmer, I just do what the UI guys tell me to :-)

@TheUnhandledException I think it just didn't like my work computer. I tried it one more time and got some spaceship movement, but didn't care enough to keep making attempts.

The Unhandled Exception

Not nearly as fun when it's a staic image @PopularDemand but at least I made some FHC for you...

@TheUnhandledException You can go and read the source code

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