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2:00 PM
Of course, then I do a massive SVN checkout, and it's back to SO/MSO/MSOChat.
@PopularDemand You can always set your firewall to block all the sites
@JohntheSeagull I don't want that, they'll still be useful to me in the future, especially SO.
@radp, SO has create new tags set a lot higher than any other site though right?
@PopularDemand sure, but you can do it especifically when you have a question instead of all day long
@rchern Yes:
Q: Reputation requirements compared

radpYes, there are questions here! Some you can even answer! Scroll down. Main sites Private Public Golden Critical beta ↓ beta site mass Action (...

@JohntheSeagull Or I could... just not visit.
2:17 PM
Honestly editing and voting to close are the only ones I worry about.
@PopularDemand oh, but you can't
@JohntheSeagull Yes..clearly we're all slaves to the collective.
@JohntheSeagull Hey! I can quit any time I want. And don't look at my other tabs.
Worthless SO tag #4290: [work]
Hm, I'm wondering if I should advocate a change in VCS at work, from TFS to Mercurial
@PopularDemand I know the feeling. It's been tough pulling myself away from chat :-)
2:26 PM
Any of you have experience with Mercurial (or any DVCS for that matter) on a product that has 10+ team members, working on various bits and pieces?
@rchern yeah, 1.5k
@LasseVKarlsen Sorry, not I
@LasseVKarlsen Sorry. Just started using it but definitely not in a team that big.
Our main problem with TFS now is that we have some people (mainly me) that work on the framework pieces, and our toolchain
And some people that work in the opposite end, business logic and GUI
and most of the time, those other people don't have to build and handle more than the end they're working on
But any commit from my part forces them to do a full get latest + a full build
Even if my change won't impact them the slightest
@LasseVKarlsen I am guessing branching is not an option here?
2:29 PM
Instead, I'm wondering if a team-based repository clone would work better
Nah, definitely not enough jQuery
Branching is an option
@LasseVKarlsen It will work better, but you will need to replace your build servers as well. CC.Net will work well.
We use TeamCity, it would handle Mercurial just fine
Q: SMTP server hacked and Spammed - hotmail.com blacklisted

TrojWe recently set upp a new SMTP server and during the night someone used it to spamm. Next day We saw that it was over 90 000 mails in the queue folder. After that I chaned the incoming port and also added credentials to the SMTP server. But my ip got blocked from the hotmail.com. Does someone kn...

2:31 PM
But with a team-based repository, each team would have control over which pieces they handle and modify, and thus what parts that they need to build and update, themselves
@LasseVKarlsen However, I would honestly go the branching route. That way you can have seperate builds for your own, and once your ready merge it back in. However be aware that branching in TFS currently is a pain. The plan is too improve it in V.Next. Not that it will help you now.
And could then, when they're good and ready for it, pull from the main repository and merge with their changes
Branching in TFS is an option, but I don't like it
As you said, it's a pain
Branching in and of itself, not a problem
Branching in TFS, rather not do it
The way I see branches in TFS is release branches
Not short-term branches, and lots of them
@LasseVKarlsen Thing is even in Mercurial you will have to branch if you want to do this. It is easier thought. I do something similar in a project I am working on, where I have changes that will affect 3 different versions of the same code, and still need to deploy bug fixes to the live code
Yes, but branches in Mercurial or Git or whatever is much more lightweight, and the whole system is built to handle branching, it's a first class citizen
In TFS it feels just clunky
I know that V.Next of TFS will have better branching and merging, in particular selective changeset merging
Which not even Mercurial or Git does
Team Foundation Server?
2:34 PM
You can already do changeset merging in TFS
@radp Correct
Let me correct
is it VSS++;?
It has changeset merging now, V.Next will have better visualization of it
2:34 PM
@radp Not even remotely
TFS is not the baby of VSS, it's more like the guy you hired when you kicked out the old tenant, to take his place, the bigger, stronger, more handsome guy
(or gal)
...is it distributed? I think the discussion implied it was.
Oh well.
Not as big a problem as people would have it
2:36 PM
I'll ask about how it's different from SVN and pals when you're freer
Sure, the "you don't need a central server" isn't really a feature most corporate users care about, but you can't have two servers with synchronization either
@radp They are working on it. Especially since they made it possible to install TFS on Windows 7. The next big thing is having sub TFS servers sync to a central one. The specification for it is being worked on at the moment.
Again, not a big problem
@radp It's actually similar to SVN on the SCC side. The additions is the Team Collaboration, Build Server and Test Servers that it comes with.
so, anybody wanna go find a 2k3 hotfix for me? (hint, you want to say yes) LOL
2:38 PM
@rchern Yes!
That wasn't a smug question, nor I think being distributed is a must, btw. Just asking, afaik distributeness is the current major "evolution" in the sector of source control versioning
@PopularDemand You beat me by 0.01 seconds. But thanks. Now I don't have too :P
not necessarily a desiderable one
Ah, it's so much easier for people to tell me what I want instead of making me figure it out for myself. Thanks @rchern!
@Diago Oh, well, anything for you.
awesome! i just need one that fixes the icon bug in gdi+. lemme know when you've found it (:
2:39 PM
I think the distributed part of DVCS will be one of the major things in forward-going DVCS's
As long as people focus on the things it should do, and not the things it can do
I'm rather tired of the "Can code on an airplane" argument
@rchern Hey, whoa, wait, I said I wanted to, not that I was capable of doing it.
I have black belt in google, what 2k3 hotfix do you need?
@LasseVKarlsen it's actually an argument I care about, for values of airplane approaching the train and the fascist uni proxy/firewall combo here
2:41 PM
@rchern I was feeling lucky: support.microsoft.com/KB/958911
@LasseVKarlsen How many developers have you actually seen code on a plane?
Including me
@Diago Agreed, I was led to believe that boats were the vehicle of choice for development.
Yeah, boats are much better
Well, at least I've copied our entire TFS history for our .NET code into Mercurial, will do some testing
how the hell did that not come up in my searches @PopularDemand
if this works you're a genius.
2:43 PM
I agree. I really need to get my Father in Law to finish working on the boat so I can take it out again. I now just need to make sure I can keep my Mac on it without it getting wet.
@Diago That really makes it sound like you crashed daddy's boat, possibly while on a programming spree.
@PopularDemand Well Erm.... I can't confirm or deny that statement :P
Does anyone know the list of situations that make Subversion display the white-asterisk-in-a-black-box icon? 99% of the time it's "I made changes to this file so it's not the same as what's in the repo," but that's not the case this time.
How do you know that's not the case?
2:48 PM
@LasseVKarlsen The icon is appearing on a folder.
Four folders, actually.
Usually that means they contain files that have been changed, but in this case there are no files inside the folder with the changed icon.
file deleted?
just a random guess
@rchern No, everything syncs up okay except for the folder itself.
But no explanation is provided in "history" or "notes" or anything else.
A little "article" about SO on The Register: theregister.co.uk/2010/10/05/verity_stob_stack_overflow
Ok, I didn't really expect that to be oneboxed, but I hadda try.
> Therefore that subset of the programming population which chooses to post answers on ExpertsExchange is self-selected as the most gullible tools in the box.
2:57 PM
Lots of quotable stuff in there.
@GeorgeMarian, it'd only be oneboxed if it was the only thing in that line anyway (;
Who's this "John Skeet" he's talking about?
@rchern Yah, I know. I tried posting the link by itself first, then figured I should edit the message instead of describing it below it.
Ah, missed the edit, sorry.
Heh, no worries.
> PHP looks more hopeful. Have you tried it? A fun little scripting language: a kind of like Perl, but designed to be read back afterwards.
3:02 PM
for a moment there I read "backwards"
(I think it makes more sense that way too...)
@radp I finished the article believing that he'd written "backwards."
the phrase "back asswards" popped into my mind as I read that.
nice article... and it reminded me to read the BOFH
Yep, definitely worth the read :)
Oh yah, it's been a while since I've read BOFH.
3:22 PM
@TheUnhandledException your bounty expires in 30 minutes. There's no front-runner as far as I'm concerned.
@PopularDemand I know, I'm not sure what to do
@trylands isn't available for me to suggest he answer the question "It will probably solve itself!"
Which question is that?
After I posted that second edit, the problem came back one time. But that was when I plugged in the computer while still watching TV. So, who knows what's going on?
Q: How can I stop my laptop display from flickering when I connect my TV?

Lord TorgamusI have a laptop with an HDMI output port running Vista, and an HDTV with HDMI input ports. The laptop is set to extend its desktop onto a second monitor. When I connect the computer to the TV with an HDMI cable, my laptop screen usually flickers rapidly. Most of the time it lasts for about 30 ...

@LasseVKarlsen Most creative answer gets +100 in 29 minutes ;-)
Got to warm up lunch before conference starts, see you in a bit.
3:26 PM
anyone think maybe we should shorten the number of recent tags on Web Apps and put in an ad for other Exchange sites?
@Chacha102 Sounds like a good idea
I bet it's the resolution
We have something similar at work, we have a 40 inch (I think) flatscreen TV in one meeting room
and we have exactly those symptoms, except for "rapid"
the screen flicks on and off, and the cursor is back in the middle
it flicks on and off every 30 seconds to a minute or so, but if you change the resolution, and not just let the auto-change part of Windows handle it, it goes away
at least it did for us
Wasn't HDMI either, was normal VGA-cable (the non-DVI type, perhaps it's not named VGA)
@Lasse interesting. I've got it set to 1920x1080 though. Not sure if that's the same as the auto-configure value.
The TV in our meeting room isn't full HD
and our laptops are 1440x1050 (I think it's 1050)
Clone or extend?
3:33 PM
so when we plug it into the TV, it downsizes everything to 1280x720
that is, clone
with extend you can choose
but if I manually set it to 1280x720 before I hook up the TV, no flickering
Well, even though that's not my exact issue, you're probably as close as anyone.
I upvoted the one about the EDID thingy, it sounds like what our support guys told us, that there was some autodetection that got a bit eager to try stuff
@LasseVKarlsen I wasn't able to verify that one. I didn't look too carefully though, I get lost in hardware specs.
3:38 PM
I think all of the answers are hard to verify
I mean, if you've updated the drivers and firmware, there's not much more you can do
Unless you find that the TV has firmware too
... that you can update
3:49 PM
That's basically the whole Y2K post-reaction in one cartoon strip
Does that mean I get a star?
Oh, allright
But just one
Dinner soon
Stop cheapening the stars I've received!
They were near-worthless to begin with, after all.
That's impossible
Easy come, easy go, sigh
4:03 PM
I'm starting not to like NTI/Webapps.SE... A large portion of the questions are pretty ridiculous requests.
@Fosco Hey, it's been nice knowing you.
@PopularDemand lol.. what's your problem?
@Fosco, how do you mean?
@Fosco Problem? I don't have a problem. But you do. And her name is rchern.
4:06 PM
Hah! ok well I am allowed to have an opinion :) I'll give some examples
Huh? I'm a problem? ):
Admittedly, everything is subjective.. My reaction to a lot of the questions is "Who the f*ck cares?"
"How get all thumbed-up songs on Pandora?"
I actually was looking for that answer..
"Organizing large Netflix queues"
@rchern Bah, I was trying to hype up a deathmatch between you and Fosco after he complained about NTI. But fine, don't take the bait.
4:08 PM
"Mass-Listing Twitter Users"
@PopularDemand, q:
"When does ESPN3 allow you to watch NFL games?"
that got closed >_>
(didn't it?)
@Fosco All of those questions seem viable to me..
"Gmail inbox- preview last email, not first, in conversation"
4:09 PM
Then again, some of the features they ask for just aren't part of the web app..
@Fosco what's wrong with this one?
it just sucks! Gosh!...:P
@rchern If the person isn't completely mistaken about how it works, wouldn't you look in the GMail options? If it's not an available option, what makes them think some random internet person will know how?
If NFL games aren't in the ESPN3 player, the answer is "not now!"
Why are you mass-listing twitter users? get a life!
@Fosco I think WebApps has a different mentality
4:12 PM
Maybe you shouldn't have such a large Netflix queue!
A lot of the questions might be unanswered
because the app doesn't have the feature they want
hehehe.. I'm just having fun.
I'll be back
I got stood up for lunch, have to amuse myself somehow.
4:13 PM
Look at it this way
the espn question was about how to watch nfl games on espn3 if your isp doesn't subscribe wasn't it? which is a bit different
The way every application is seemingly moving towards being a web application...
but anyway, if there's something to be improved upon, of course i want to know (;
@rchern Nope.
... webapps is basically "programs.stackexchange.com"
Won't this have some of the same problems as gadgets?
4:14 PM
Too many questions, too many sites, not enough experts?
I'm not a good person to judge any of the SE network other than SO, since I'm not really one to ask questions...
The 2 things I decided to ask the SO community went unanswered, because if they were answerable I would've found it elsewhere before giving up and asking on SO.
Surely I don't mean that like it sounds...
Stupid meeting caused me to miss the bounty expiration
Probably for the better
@Fosco, maybe, but a first-impression sort of feedback is valuable too.
4:22 PM
@rchern I'm always willing to give feedback.. I wish it were helpful though. :)
@rchern how'd the GDI fix go? Or are you saving that for later?
@PopularDemand I don't understand... the bounty expired, but it seems I can still award it? I am confused
@TheUnhandledException Perhaps they implemented the post-bounty grace period?
@PopularDemand They must have
Did any of the answers help more than others?
I'm leaning towards awarding it to
A: How can I stop my laptop display from flickering when I connect my TV?

JoshThis sounds like a graphics drivers issue. Have you updated to the absolute latest graphics drivers? Both NVIDIA and ATI provide mobile drivers directly from their websites now - in most cases you don't need to go to your manufacturer's website. It may also be that you need a BIOS update - in wh...

4:30 PM
@TheUnhandledException Not particularly. The one you linked is fine with me.
Not sure what could be influencing me ;-)
I don't see a [status-completed] tag on the grace period feature requests.
well we'll see what happens here :-)
well, seems to have worked
@TheUnhandledException Yep, I see it.
@PopularDemand, it has been installed, but requires a reboot. that'll get done this evening.
4:34 PM
ahahahah poor guy...
Q: Do thick people ever learn how to program?

StarterHi I am trying to learn C# and ASP.NET, I read some books I do the exercises I kind of understand what I do when I do the exercises but when I have to do it on my own I have not Idea what to do to start creating a program. I also did a course for 1 month and I worked for 2 years as web maintenan...

I'm seriously considering an MSO proposal to abolish the CW option.
@PopularDemand I'd give you a half and upvote and a half a downvote for that
so generous!
Well I'm split on that
It's confusing as hell and misused 90% of the time
But there's that 10% it's perfect for :-)
@PopularDemand How about a proposal that only users with >1500 rep can create CW posts? :-)
That way it gets used for only what it was intended for... or something
4:41 PM
@TheUnhandledException I'd like to see some examples of the 10%. I can only think of one, and it's one of my own posts.
@PopularDemand I'll send some later. I know the accepted answer for my /me command request was a good example
I'll save my post as a draft, then.
It was CW because I wanted the community to be able to improve the code I provided
@PopularDemand Yey for new features!
I wanted to make a Programmers.SE post CW, but I wanted the rep.. so I didn't.
@TheUnhandledException Psh, I'm not figuring out that draft feature. I'm keeping an off-SO backup.
4:43 PM
It would have been a benefit for people to edit/add to my post rather than have a string of half-answers..
Hey quick SVN question for the experts
Q: Option to extend bounties by 24 hours.

George EdisonHere is a scenario that actually happened to me... I asked a question I got less than helpful answers I created a bounty With hardly any time left on the bounty, someone posted an answer Here is the problem: I didn't have time to check the answer to see if it worked before the bounty ran out...

changeset 11778 through 11826 need to be undone. Do I svn merge --revision 11826:11778 or svn merge --revision 11826: 11777 ?
svn cry;
That is, to undo what was done in 11778, do I need to merge to the rev prior?
I'm pretty sure I do, but I reverse merge so infrequently
4:46 PM
@TheUnhandledException, that being the accepted answer is meh. I don't want a script so that I see /me properly. I want it implemented so that I don't look like an idiot when I do /me.
@rchern Oh I agree 100%
/me doesn't think you look like an idiot.
Please make @balpha implement my script, answer stating you did so, and I will accept
/me agrees
No SVN experts? OK, trial-and-error wins the day again!
Chat continues to have seizures
@TheUnhandledException Seizures?
4:49 PM
I minimized Firefox for a sec there but I haven't had any problems... ever.
@PopularDemand My posts weren't appearing, instead it was just scrolling all the way up
yet they really were appearing, apparently
@TheUnhandledException, what makes you think @balpha ever does anything I suggest? (;
apparently my requests are boring
I do occasionally have the chat not stay scrolled to the bottom when someone posts an extra-long message. Vertically long. Like, say, a muffincat.
@rchern LOL! Instead they implement their own version of stackflair :-(
Jeff hates long messages
in Root Access on Super User Chat, 18 hours ago, by Jeff Atwood
one line easter eggs are best.. something that scrolls the page so much.. meh
@TheUnhandledException nope, [status-reproduced]
4:53 PM
@TheUnhandledException And I hate having to notice that chat is continuing but I can't see it because my scrollbar is only 95% of the way down the screen.
!     C Contents
      >   local delete, incoming delete upon merge
!     C index.php
      >   local delete, incoming delete upon merge
Usually when I'm in chat I want to be able to continue reading with no manual input.
WTF? None of those were deleted. I think svn is telling me it's time for a lunch break
@PopularDemand Funny, when that happens I notice I'm the most productive ;-)
the only time it doesn't stay on bottom for me is when i've been gone for awhile and so it lets me catchup (;
feature, not bug! q:
in Chat feedback, Oct 1 at 20:20, by balpha
Your feature requests really get boring. Either they're crystal clear "yes of course, we should totally do that", or they're "meh, whatever". Can't you request more stuff like /me or something, which leads to heated discussions?
When I have an issue with a web app, I go right to the source... i.e. I'm trying to register a domain with namesecure, and it won't let me despite there being no results from a WHOIS... so I have a request in with them.
4:57 PM
@rchern Feature request: change the name of Web Applications to Nothing to Install.
@balpha let me request /dcc
@radp ! /dcc would be awesome.
@balpha wanted a controversial feature request to decline so...
*ei fu
siccome immobile
dato il mortal sospiro
4:59 PM
va fa napoli
@radp and was, as property, given the mortal sigh ?
@radp Mi piaci
@rchern HAHA, I love it
@radp blocked by Barracuda
Anyway lunchtime for me
5:04 PM
@radp ah..
5:17 PM
tomorrow is gold badge day.. exciting!
nuh unh. yesterday (SO today) was! (;
Anyone heard of Paybox? paybox.me/r/gfosco seems too good to be true, scam-worthy maybe?...
@rchern grats!
I never paid attention to the all rooms page while it was loading before.
Even the "there's an image here, it's loading, just be patient" icon is grayed out under the gravatars of idle people.
I wonder if that's by design.
I bet it is.
err, not sure what you're referring to...
5:27 PM
@rchern You know how icons of users are grayed out if they haven't talked in a while?
Before those images load, Firefox loads the little placeholder, but even the placeholder is grayed out for the idle users.
That icon.
eww, so when you load the page you see tons of those? ouch.
You're missing the headline here.
Also, it's sad when SO goes down.
5:45 PM
@JoshKodroff What's up?
anyone know where one might find automapper experts on irc?
or... I could just post my question to you fine people.
What makes you think you're talking to automapper experts here?
SO people are frequently plugged into OSS.
And they're smart.
5:58 PM
I got a bug and I need some help. :-D
did anyone else lose their gravatar on the main site?
it's coming through here just fine, but i see the default fractal on so.com
6:17 PM
@Moshe Fix it yet?
Anyone familiar with iOS development?
anybody willing to shamelessly edit a meta question to bump it for me or am i gonna have to bounty up? (;
@spoulson - No
@Moshe What was it?
Q: Type to find user should maintain the sort order selected

wafflesFind as you type user feature always sorts on name. I find it a bit confusing that the sort order is swapped without me asking for it. If I am sorting on popularity it should also sort on popularity. For an added bonus, when the user filter box is cleared, the paging numbers should re-appear a...

6:18 PM
I'm trying to modify Matt Gallagher's AudioStreamer class. I want to display the currently playing song.
At the end of the article he gives some tips, but I'm not having much luck with them
My HTTP header "reads" (my own term) are returning empty arrays.
Now for some specific code:
			CFHTTPMessageRef * header = CFReadStreamCopyProperty(stream, kCFStreamPropertyHTTPResponseHeader);

			NSDictionary *dict = CFHTTPMessageCopyAllHeaderFields(header);

			NSArray * dictKeys = [dict allKeys];
			NSLog(@"Keys: %@", [dictKeys description]);

			NSArray *headerKeys = [httpHeaders allKeys];

			NSLog(@"Header Keys: %@", [headerKeys description]);
The first two lines return warnings and those NSLogs are returning empty arrays.
First warning: initialization discards qualifiers from pointer target type
Second line give two warnings
just out of curiosity, why are you asking here and not on SO?
@rchern - I did, but it's kinda hard to explain everything there.
Warning 2: passing argument 1 of 'CFHTTPMessageCopyAllHeaderFields' from incompatible pointer type
and it is easier here?
Warning 3: initialization from incompatible pointer type
Q: Objective-C datatypes and HTTP stream variables?

MosheI am trying to read out some values from response headers from a Shoutcast stream. In the following code, what datatypes should my variables be when reading the values? *datatype* header = CFReadStreamCopyProperty(stream, kCFStreamPropertyHTTPResponseHeader); *datatype* varname = CFHTTPMess...

So that's the question and these are my bugs. Any help would be appreciated.
well, you just asked the question, give it time, and you're also specifying more information here that i don't see why you can't add to the question.
6:24 PM
@rchern - Ok, so how would you add that to the question?
select what you typed here, copy, paste into question?
It sounds different when you're having a "conversation".
But ok.
@rchern - edited.
I HAVE RETURNED!!!! Aren't you all soooo happy now? =b
Haha, awesome
I'm not, because now I have to fix svn. boooo
6:37 PM
@TheUnhandledException Hi, I got your email. Now you are going to be waiting for my reply. Ha! ;P
@spaulson - have you looked at my question at all?
@Moshe Haha, no problem. Take your time!
@TheUnhandledException I will. And I need help with my iOS project. See my question, linked above.
@Moshe I'd help if I could, I'm a total n00b in ObjC
@TheUnhandledException ok np @every1else - any takers?
@Moshe Looks like most people are AFK/sleeping
6:42 PM
@TheUnhandledException oh well. Time to work on building all of my unfinished app ideas to my iPad so I can show off icons of apps that I don't have time to work on.
At least my icons look nice.
And maybe I can work on setting up Siphon
yey for purdy icons!

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