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@balpha Yay!
7:02 PM
Aaand that's the end of accessing webapps.SE from work. (Not that I ever did, anyway.)
I don't really like those voting arrows, but anyway.
Can we get a screenshot here? I'd like to see the new look.
sure, sec
@TheUnhandledException oh sorry! never pictured that could happen. animated gifs are the oldest thing on internet.
@rchern Congratulations, now nobody can vote to close anymore. Have fun!
7:07 PM
@Cawas I wouldn't have thought so either
I can't believe the SO team allowed that to happen, but that's what it is.
@rchern: Looks nice. I'm going to assume the stripes in the header are just compression artifacts?
@radp Oh, they did push the rep limits back to normal. I figured they were going to delay that
Should be interesting
How does it work if you propose a SE site which gets implemented? Do you automatically become a diamond mod for proposing the site?
@TheUnhandledException On SE 1 sites you did (♦♦, in fact); on SE 2 sites you don't, it's done through nominations
7:10 PM
Until GoodEnough gets 1,065 more rep, NTI just cannot vote questions closed.
@MichaelMrozek Ah, OK. And SE 1 sites are no longer available for purchase right?
You better nominate many mods :)
@mmyers, click on the image for a full view
@rchern It looks weird on my screen too, even in the full view. The actual site looks right though, so it must be something about the screenshot
7:12 PM
Oh. I just used windows Snipping Tool.
Yeah, I was looking at the full-size view.
@rchern using any windows tool, there's your problem
"Life without walls"... so, why do I need windows then?
@TheUnhandledException It's just a huge window
where the glass is made of unicorn farts
@radp Isn't that known as "the outdoors"?
@radp LOL, nice edit
@rchern That's a pretty epic number of links at the top, I just noticed that
7:15 PM
In other news
Gobierno declara estado de Excepción #Ecuador #30S
↑ Governments use twitter to announce stuff.
(At least I'm glad that isn't Facebook. Just imagine how weird it'd be to "like" that.)
I googled "ecuador state of emergency" -- it's depressing how many results I found
May 2010, Oct 2009, Feb 2008, ...
@MichaelMrozek Click more and pick latest :)
whats happening?
An attempted coup, apparently
7:28 PM
peru closed their border, encourages columbia to do the same..
Forgotten my OpenID password - can't log back in....
@ChrisF UG
Can anyone confirm this is a SE 1.0 site? answers.splunk.com
@TheUnhandledException - if I used the same password everywhere it wouldn't be a problem - but then I'd have other problem ;)
@ChrisF No forgot password system with your OpenID provider?
7:32 PM
@TheUnhandledException, I see <meta name="generator" content="StackExchange 0.9 (20100413135304-37b86aed49ad)">
Oh - yes - but then I'd have to reregister on my work computer and the upstairs one & I'd forget again and so it goes on
@rchern Thanks! I didn't even think to check that, didn't know SE put a given meta in
Ha - remembered it!
answers.splunk.com --> requires custom login
7:34 PM
@Sathya Yeah, I saw that
I was sending that as an answer to a pricing question on ServerFault chat... I almost went into a recursive loop, LOL
You can actually see the openID login URL text box
which gets cloaked
and then redirected to the custom login
Just got to get answering some questions on web apps, sorry - nothing to install so I have close rights when I stop being a moderator ;)
@ChrisF, I'd like to get more rep there so I could edit.
@ChrisF I want to but my OpenID provider is down! >:o
@LanceRoberts It's massively frustrating not being able to edit on all the SE sites
7:42 PM
@TheUnhandledException I use MyOpenID - seems to work pretty much all of the time (famous last words)
@ChrisF I use Verisign, only had 2 issues (this one included)
My sockpuppet uses MyOpenID
@LanceRoberts Well I need to get another 400 for normal edit rights and 1400 for close rights, the closer I can get to these by the time moderator elections come round the happier I'll be
@ChrisF Just tell them you're not stepping down without a fight, and suspend nothingtoinstall.com/users/7/jeff-atwood
@MichaelMrozek I'd like to see someone try ;)
If I don't get nominated or elected it's no big deal - it's nice being able to see all posts, but I miss being able to vote to close without it being immediate
@ChrisF Gosh, ain't that the truth
7:52 PM
We've closed like 10 posts total on Unix, so I don't particularly miss it :). We're kind of ridiculously problem-free, it's making me nervous
For retweet-y goodness if anyone is so inclined: twitter.com/Nothing2Install/status/26006743032 (;
@MichaelMrozek It makes sense; Unix users are traditionally involved in online communication; usenet, etc
May I add my voice to the disliking of the design of n2i?
To be honest people had quite some time to preview the design on the sites' meta
sure, screenshots don't tell the full story
Main problem for me is that I can't keep up with all the sites that interest me
And I can't even hope to keep up with the sites that interest me AND their meta sites
8:01 PM
@JohntheSeagull Indeed - and it'll only get worse as more sites are added
Well, I'm linking to the Gaming design so you can give feedback before it's too late then ;)
(the only final thing about that title is that it's going to be different)
Q: Design Ideas for Gaming Site (updated with screenshots v2)

JinHi all. I'm Jin and I'll be working on the designs for the Stack Exchange sites as they graduate from the beta phase. Each site will have its own unique theme that will reflects its topic. However, all sites will share quite a bit of common elements so they feel like they're part of the Stack Exc...

@ChrisF sad but true. Let's see what the geniuses come up with?
@JohntheSeagull Well there's the plan to merge half the sites with Programmers ;)
re: gaming site's retro look:: meh.
@JohntheSeagull Now we'll get the howls of protest from people saying either they prefer the sketchy design
Oo - founder badges should start appearing on Area 51 soon - area51.stackexchange.com/badges/204/founder
"Participated in the definition, commitment, and beta phases of a successful site."
8:09 PM
So how was thatonelevel.com finally decided?
@JohntheSeagull it wasn't
it was the best name when the mockups were made
we still don't have a name
I haven't paid much attention to that discussion - is it still going on?
I like this design a lot more than the other one. I have one suggestion though. I'll put it on the meta thread
@ChrisF I have mainly given up on tracking it
it's really disgusting to see top answers wave up and down between -1 and 4
@radp That's one reason I gave up too - all the suggestions just seemed to be down-voted for the hell of it
8:17 PM
continuing the random pictures with a random link:
google street view with a dead corpse o_O
Maybe he's just napping over bloody pee
or maybe someone cut him with a chainsaw
Although it seems likely he was ran over
Welbog is Jin the designer???
@JohntheSeagull No
Their gravatars are similar but different.
yes, went to check it
8:29 PM
@radp I love it:
Q: Add a character palette to the editor

radpA small character palette in the sidebar would go a long way to bringing more Unicode awesomeness to StackExchange. I for one am tired of typing -- in place of an em-dash — and we live in 2010, for balpha's sake. Some SE sites would need this more than other. For example, I can see English makin...

Q: Will an option to migrate to Nothing To Install be added to Super User's Close dialog?

ChrisFThe title says it all really. Now that Nothing To Install is live, will it be added to the close dialog?

@ChrisF +1, it should be!
@ChrisF You lost no time with that one :). I'm sure it will be, but last I heard they're still implementing the new migration system
It's not as if the go live date snuck up on them is it?
Well no, but being told "you have n days to finish this" doesn't mean they'll actually get it done in n days
I have no idea what the progress is, but I tried to get migration between Unix and Ubuntu added while we were still in beta and was told they haven't finished implementing the feature yet
8:42 PM
I know - my tongue was in my cheek (slightly)
Wow, that's a massive number of downvotes
People like downvoting on meta
The total is 719/-732
@CRoss Especially when it costs nothing :)
o: where'd you get that image from?
8:43 PM
@rchern data from posts/{id}/timeline
ah, manually created?
(Yes, on July 15th the bars overlap by one unit.)
I like it. The extent of my graphical capabilities is the chart I made in Chat feedback
@MichaelMrozek It's just a few "clever" settings, a stock style and the Ubuntu font just because :)
I knew the timeline existed, just didn't recall a graph there (:
one less beta icon!
8:51 PM
@rchern YEY!
9:03 PM
Q: Login via Verisign PIP OpenID not working

Steve WThe actual Versign web page for PIP appears to be down: https://pip.verisignlabs.com/. Does anyone know if this service is going away from Verisign? Or is the Verisign site down?

Anyone else know why Verisign PIP is down?
9:16 PM
Because Verisign is EVIL
In what timeframe and with which means of transportation?
@JohntheSeagull nasm
@radp I love that story
At firs I though it was going to be the 500 mile email story
10:08 PM
I used to love that story, before Reddit decided to share it and the story of Mel with me several thousand times
I still love that story, overused as it may be :-)
so, is there any Unicode character you'd love to use more often in your answers that isn't one of the following?
 ┌─┬┐ αµ ~∀ ±− ­ ↖↑↗ ≤≥
 │┼├┤ βϱ `∃ ײ – ←⇔→ ⇐⇒
 └─┴┘ πω ¬∊ ÷³ — ↙↓↘ ⊂⊃
&shy; and \forall makes the above not align properly on my monitor :/
(the first block of not immediately useful characters is for <pre> tables)
care to point to the story for us uninformed?
Q: Add a character palette to the editor

radpA small character palette in the sidebar would go a long way to bringing more Unicode awesomeness to StackExchange. I for one am tired of typing -- in place of an em-dash — and we live in 2010, for balpha's sake. Some SE sites would need this more than other. For example, I can see English makin...

@JohntheSeagull Which story?
10:15 PM
How far can you go?
@JohntheSeagull have you tried clicking on the link? :)
I for one just wouldn't have started that journey down teensy line at all.
I'm off
Later @Chris!
10:21 PM
@radp type alt-0151 on your keypad to get an em dash —
0150 for an en dash. –
0149 for a bullet •
Windows only, @Emtucifor
Mac is Option-8 for a bullet
step 1: switch to windows?
0147, 0148 “”
10:22 PM
that IS windows
I'm on Windows XP right now.
Wow, this place just started hopping :-)
@Emtucifor, yeah, but @radp was pointing out it isn't a cross-os solution.
hold down Alt, then on the numeric keypad (not the top row numbers) type 0151.
then let go of alt.
Oh, I understand, sorry.
I understood it backwards. :)
oh wait, i mean
10:23 PM
how about allowing certain accent characters to be entered as two inputs, like in MS Word and Yahoo Messenger?
Such as you press Ctrl-' and press e and you'll get an e with an acute accent.
or ctrl-shift-; then u to get u with an umlaut
Those are dead keys, again keyboard layout specific.
dead keys?
Some keyboards, like the German, have those.
so some keyboards don't have a semicolon?
A dead key is a special kind of a modifier key on a typewriter or computer keyboard that is typically used to attach a specific diacritic to a base letter. The dead key does not generate a (complete) character by itself but modifies the character generated by the key struck immediately after. That way you do not need a dedicated key for each possible combination of a diacritic and a letter, but only one dead key for each diacritic, in addition to the normal base letter keys. For example, if a keyboard has a dead key for the grave accent (`), the French character à can be generated by firs...
no, ctrl-' + letter to get the letter with an acute accent would be a dead key combination.
10:26 PM
@Emtucifor That seems like it should be the OSes job. Like:
i gotta commit alt+0586 to memory
A: How do I put a hat on 'e' (ê)?

Steve BurdinePress Ctrl+Shift+U and an underlined U will appear. Next to it type in EA, which equals ê. Found the info here

oooo hrm that code doesn't work here though.
J i don't want a J!
Besides none of those gets me a nice, cuddly →
I suppose you're right, it should be the OS's job.
@MichaelMrozek LOL, a hat :-)
In the meantime, why not support it through javascript, and do it without changing the keyboard layout?
want a sombrero
10:28 PM
Q: Add a character palette to the editor

radpA small character palette in the sidebar would go a long way to bringing more Unicode awesomeness to StackExchange. I for one am tired of typing -- in place of an em-dash — and we live in 2010, for balpha's sake. Some SE sites would need this more than other. For example, I can see English makin...

hmmm, works in chrome's omnibox but nowhere else?
now i'm sad
I'm really surprised how popular that proposal is; adding individual character pallete boxes to every website seems terrible. Your OS should have that capability and if it doesn't you should get a program that adds it automatically
Making every website implement it separately is completely backwards
@MichaelMrozek please note I didn't propose accented letters and the such
@radp It doesn't seem like there should be a difference
greeeeeeaaaaaat. /questions is broken on NTI ):
10:31 PM
@rchern Aren't you some sort of important person there? Fix it
I use /questions pretty much exclusively, so that'd be sad times for me if I followed WA^H^H NTI regularly
ditto. all of my bookmarks are for /questions
I wish I could log in...
10:32 PM
@MichaelMrozek by the way I'm using a custom keyboard layout to have some more unicode awesomeness at my fingertips (including arrows)
@radp That seems like how it should be
fun stuff...
eh, balpha, no onebox for odata either?
spoons when you need a knife? Still ironic.
how is that ironic ?
10:36 PM
@TheUnhandledException I prefer this:
@radp Is that Gaming's oopsie image?
That's awesome
It should be. (@jin)
@radp Are you posting a question on meta or should I? :-)
I'd definitely upvote that, that one is perfect
Feel free to steal this one for Programmers, btw
A: What should the 404 image be for the site?

badp Page Not Found We're sorry, we couldn't find the page you requested. However, we did find the release date for Duke Nukem: Forever.

@MichaelMrozek Not so perfect, Ms Pac Man on the wrong side of the killscreen could get us into hot legal ground...
10:39 PM
@radp The killscreen has been printed pretty much everywhere, so I assume it's fair use
Description A screenshot of level 256, otherwise known as the "Split-Screen Level", in Pac-Man. Fair use in Pac-Man Though this image is subject to copyright, its use is covered by the U.S. fair use laws because: # Namco has released no such images into the public domain, and a replacement image could not be created that would adequately provide the same information. # The image is being used for no purpose other than to identify the subject of the article. # The image resolution has been significantly decreased from the original, so copies made from it would be of inferior quality. # Th...
@radp Then what do you do if DNF makes schedule next spring?
@mmyers Switch to Half Life 2: Episode Three
Q: The site should use a Killscreen image for the error pages

JoshAs badp proposed in chat, this site should use a killscreen image for any error pages:

and proceed from vaporware to vaporware
(also, on a pacman but not 404-page-related note, this is an extremely interesting breakdown of the game)
10:42 PM
Thanks for the edits @radp
@TheUnhandledException Why did you post it separately? There's already a 404 suggestions post
@MichaelMrozek That's a 500 Internal Error suggestion.
@radp I will edit again
@radp Oh. It should probably say that somewhere then, I didn't even know there were custom images for that page
@MichaelMrozek I just clarified
Sorry for confusion
10:44 PM
@MichaelMrozek workin on ur problemz?
@radp Yeah, but I hadn't seen any betas propose custom images for it yet, I figured it was just going to be left a lolcat or whatever
If you're allowed to choose custom 500 images you should probably format the post like the 404 post; "What should our error image be?" instead of "Our error image should be this"
↑ In case anyone's spoiling for a good fight.
@MichaelMrozek Others can post competing answers
10:47 PM
@mmyers I pretty much auto-ignore any post/comment/etc. that at any point utters the phrase "what about democracy?"
@mmyers Here, have a ↑
@radp And it doesn't seem a little unfair to have one of the answers be in the question itself?
It's like posting a moderator nomination question with the body "I should be a moderator"
Bye. Have fun storming the castle. Here's a happy goodbye omega for you: Ω
@radp Thanks, I love arrows. And slings.
@MichaelMrozek feature-request usually have the request itself in the question body. This one is not different.
Other questions are tagged discussion.
10:50 PM
@MichaelMrozek Yeah, that was added after it was closed. area51.stackexchange.com/posts/21841/revisions
@radp It seems unnecessary to do that post differently than all the other posts about design decisions, which are pretty much identical across every site. But I'm not active on gaming so I don't really care; if nobody there objects then go for it
@MichaelMrozek Yeah, I'm requesting it be this one... but I can change to a discussion if everyone prefers
meh, not a big deal imho
@mmyers I'm sure, I meant any sympathy I might've had for him about a closed proposal vanished when I saw that part; I assumed he was just trolling and closed it without reading his arguments
I just feel adamant this is the best one!
That's insane
I thought you don't earn rep for posts to SE metas?
@TheUnhandledException It still shows it there, but you don't actually get anything
@MichaelMrozek Should it not show it there?
A bit confusing, no?
I'm probably nitpicking
It is rather confusing; I think it's been brought up before and called [status-bydesign], but I'm not positive
11:00 PM
For some reason [status-wontfix] doesn't exist in the SO world, it just got merged with [status-bydesign] as though they're the same thing
There's nothing wrong with "that's not a big enough deal for us to bother fixing it", but it's completely not the same as "yeah, we intended it to be that way....for some reason"
@MichaelMrozek Exactly!
11:03 PM
@TheUnhandledException I don't think it's that, it just seems like they don't care about the distinction, but it tends to cause unnecessary arguments when users reply with "that design decision is insane, why would you want it that way". The argument could be avoided if they just said "maybe you're right, but we've got bigger things to worry about"
@MichaelMrozek Agreed
I just noticed the status-bydesign tag info -- well done @Shog9
And this is a very minor issue for me. No hate for the SE team over here! SOFU sites are awesome and everyone at Stack Overflow, inc deserves praise :-)
Yeah, it's become more of an inside joke than an actual complaint at this point, it's like saying "guys, your features never take six to eight weeks, why do you keep telling us that"
does anybody have the image that used to appear in the result for api.stackoverflow.com/0.8/help/help?
11:08 PM
@MichaelMrozek heheheh...
@radp what is [top-7] ?
@TheUnhandledException One of the 7 Essential Meta Questions of Every Beta
@MichaelMrozek Thanks!
I should have known that, lol
I had no idea what it was the first time I saw it, I think somebody asked in a comment and it was explained
It became a semi-convention on the beta metas
@MichaelMrozek I'm barely active on the betas
11:11 PM
"Beta meta" is hard to say when you're reading it.
Need to find more time. Just as I was starting to get more active on the betas @balpha had to go and write chat
Now I have no more free time, lol
@mmyers Agreed
@TheUnhandledException Eventually you'll find the best beta and you'll have no desire to check out any of the others
@MichaelMrozek I found it! But I need to work to up my rep there :-)
@TheUnhandledException why on earth should you have known that?
@Shog9 Because I read that blog post, and I'm somewhat active on metas
11:20 PM
ah. Well, don't worry then - so did I, and it meant nothing.
Ok. I feel better now :-)
11:38 PM
Heh. Of course around 5pm I had all my code working almost perfectly, so I had to go and screw it up completely so now I have to stay here ALL FRIGGIN NIGHT fixing it. >:o
I just got my failing tests passing. I'm making sure it builds on Windows and then committing and leaving before the CI server can tell me something is wrong
@MichaelMrozek Good plan. Take it from me :-)
Leave while you still caaannnnn!!!
11:56 PM
1 hour ago, by mmyers

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