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1:53 AM
-- Note from editor: Don't let the original author of this query anywhere
-- near your databases. If you were considering letting them anywhere near
-- your databases, look at the revision history of this query first. (And
-- if you haven't time for that, just look at the previous revision:
-- <http://data.stackexchange.com/stackoverflow/revision/90306/145532/>.)
-- Defend your database servers with sharp objects if necessary. That's how
-- bad the previous iterations of this query were. (And if you couldn't
2:06 AM
Also, this needs to be closed already!
1 hour later…
3:11 AM
I don't know how to look at the revision history of a query on Data Explorer.
But the revision that commenter linked specifically is pretty...awesome.
@jadarnel27 PostHistory.Comment ;)
or something like that
@Braiam Heh, I mean how to look at the revisions of an actual query on Data Explorer. Not how to look at revisions of posts by using Data Explorer.
Oh, there they are.
You can see a list of them if you click the "fork query" link.
3:42 AM
Hmmm. I get a free PluralSight trial membership, and the first thing I see is waffles.
1 hour later…
4:48 AM
is there any site that suitable for a question about wedding etiquette (rsvp-ing)? ... i saw "the workplace" and figured there might be another of that sort
by the way "the workplace" is invisible on chrome on this page: stackexchange.com/sites?view=grid#lifearts
@Frank the workplace is not a life/arts site
oh, i see. when i used CTRL+F to search the page, it showed up, and it's also there in the source for the page (name and logo), but i don't know enough html or whatever to understand why that would be unless it should show up
anyway, i see that it is under professional. thanks
i guess that's just how the page is designed (to show logos only for the selected category)
3 hours later…
@Shog9 - sorry for the late answer. I have already read some of the post about the problem on meta sites and I am the first to recognize that many of them are whining posts under disguise. That said my concern remains. While other seems more concerned about the people getting undeserver downvotes, I actually question the value that the downvote will bring to the community.
@Shog9 - As I said before, probably I am biased in my view since I come from a very low traffic (ie - very low vote ratio) community. If you look at SO, you will see that valuable info gets voted a lot. A good answer will most of the time get at last 30-40 votes. In that sea of agreement, a single revenge/unjustified downvote is just a mere drop.

But please, for a second consider a site where [good answers strive to get 10+ votes](http://sharepoint.stackexchange.com/search?q=is%3Aanswer+score%3A10). SharePoint has 46k answer - only 5.5k go past 3+. That is the situation that concerns me:
@Shog9 - I am no Skeet. I come on the site to learn. To get answers to things I don't know. That means that if the question is intricate enough I will probably lack the knowledge to detect hidden issue in an answer. That also mean that I need to "walk in iron boots" when I try to chose the answer most appropriate in my situation.
7:53 AM
@hichris123 yeah, that's a one man project, George asked for permission, got it, and did it all by himself.
@Shog9 - so the concern is all there. The downvotes just add noise to my efforts to evaluate the answer: I cannot discern if the vote is cast to indicate real concern in an answer/problems or if it was just a moment of fun for the downvoter. So, in that precise situation not only the vote did not aid me in my search but actually worked against me to increase the confusion I already had when I starded searching for a solution to my problem.
@Shog9 - I can understand that you don't want to force anyone to do what they don't think they have to do. I can also understand that many users think they are entitled to the privilege of not explaining if they want to - it is their time, they think.
Some of them may even think they are entitled to vote randomly since the system permits that. But sorry, I still beg to differ from that view. I believe that vote are a service to the system - if you don't want to complete it you may as well not start at all.
@LaszloPapp - see the above posts
8:18 AM
8:35 AM
6 wagons in morning train, not bad
Damn you @Mat. You broke the train, which is a horrible thing to do, but you did so with "brown", which is awesome. My feelings are so damn neutral right now!!!
Any idea what the right thing to do with this sort of question on MSO is? I put a custom close reason, but that really looks crappy. Should we have a canonical Q/A for those on MSO?
@Mat we should let it be for now
This is on topic for MSO as it's about Stack Overflow
As for canonical Q/A I think this faq is better be moved to MSO, as the post ban is most active in there
@Mat oh and as punishment for breaking the train, no waffles for you today! :D
I'd rather not move the FAQ but be able to dup-close between child meta and MSE for this sort of thing. Would save a bunch of time I think.
Or have questions automagically "belong" to all child metas.
1 hour later…
10:05 AM
@jadarnel27 on a sidenote: They provide very good content ...
That's great, @rene! I've heard good things. I look forward to getting some use out of it.
10:19 AM
Does anybody know if this has a fix coming:
Q: Questions are misaligned when I visit a question from a comment link

Billy MailmanThis one's a bit weird. Any time I view a question through a direct link to one of its comments (Whether through an inbox notification, an outside link, or just clicking the time on a comment on a page I'm already on), the page loads up with the title whole content area (answers, vote buttons, si...

@rene I fear bugs in MSE aren't on the team's list of things to do yet
Hmmm, OK...
I can't imagine there is something more important to fix than that, anyway moving on.... :-)
I'll take a guess they're still busy with migrating things and monitoring how the split is going, and remember MSE got no moderators so it means less time for bug fixing.
No worry though, bugs will get attention in 6-8 weeks! :D
If that are the same 6-8 weeks it took for the split...
@ShadowWizard How does having no moderators have anything to do with bugfixing?
@rene the team is handling the moderator flags and other things moderators usually do (e.g. nuking spam accounts)
Another bug that is super easy to fix and silently ignored is this one
Q: Side-by-side diffs are not side-by-side

ughoavgfhwThis only seems to be an issue here on Meta. When in the side-by-side edit view, the two versions appear above each other instead of beside. The issue does not seem to depend on the browser width, and does not occur for side-by-side markdown.

10:32 AM
ha, lets see how long it takes before mods are appointed :-)
And to be honest, it's more "fatal" than the IE bug as it's in all browsers and I see lots of edit revisions
@rene 6-8 weeks, of course! :P
Maybe we can speed up the process by raising more flags...
@rene brilliant idea! Just don't blame me if you get yourself suspended ;)
11:35 AM
This is a repost by the same author.
@Louis I left a comment and close voted the original question as well as a duplicate...
@rene Thanks. We need one more vote on both to close them.
The following one could also do with duplicate close votes. Different author though. (Sock puppet?) I unfortunately voted to close as too broad before I knew about the dupe.
1:20 PM
@Louis @rene @R.J you should contact our folks in the PHP room, we have browser extensions and a backlog for requests that might be useful to you.
1:46 PM
Where has the SO flag queue gone?
@JeroenVannevel It's no longer available to 10k users because it was making more harm than good.
Most flags were moved to their respective queues
(NAAs are in the low quality queue).
Oh god. The only queue that had reasonable reviewers has been merged into the normal reviews?
Is there some meta post on it? Can't find it immediately
Q: Let's get rid of the 10K flag queue

Shog9The 10K tools are pretty cool... You get a birds-eye view of activity on the site, a "dashboard" view of what's happening. Some of the individual tools haven't scaled particularly well with Stack Overflow's growth, but the concept behind them is still sound: we trust you to enough to be a bee wat...

> /tools/flagged is no more.
Oh sure, I'm almost at 10k and then they do that.
@Bart shog was right, it sucked.
I used it from time to time and apart of the terrible UI, it just wasn't useful
1:59 PM
But privileges!
You can get waffles, much more tasty ;)
Ooh, waffles
Maybe now we can ask for new 10k privilege to replace it, any ideas? :)
At the moment my brain can only think of privileges which include coffee
That said .... let me get some coffee
@ShadowWizard maybe if we could be shown deleted posts?
2:04 PM
Anybody else having trouble with some site login activity in Chrome?
I suddenly can't go to one of my site metas, or login to chat, on Chrome unless i'm in a private window
and I disabled the only two extensions that ought to be problems (Ad blockers)
Oh, wait, HTTPS everywhere
Odd that it has such particular problems though - MSO and MSE were fine
but a particular meta site didn't work
and SO chat was fine, but not MSE chat
Oh well!
@JanDvorak umm, but we can
@Bart Everyone who says the flag queue sucked is right. You've missed nothing.
unless you mean see a list of deleted posts in user profile?
2:09 PM
now that would be nice
It was all for nothing.
Q: Windows 8 Tile App and SQL Server

Megha JainI am creating a new windows 8 tile app to display the contents of the database table. I am following WCF service approach for my app to talk to SQL Server. I researched lots and found few good articles and following this one: http://www.c-sharpcorner.com/UploadFile/rohatash/insert-update-and-del...

People still post their c̶r̶a̶p̶ programming questions in MSE.
The close reason list seems to be missing an option, though
"The question was intended to be a question at another site."
I wish it was funny, but one of the reasons for the split was to prevent exactly those things. :(
The one you and I chose is okay, but pretty clear this is going to be still a big reason for closing
I'm sure it's less frequent
Oh well, let's close them away! :)
2:18 PM
and hichris or someone else will do an analysis at some point of how much less :)
One thing is for sure, those can't be innocent mistake anymore so those users deserve insta-ban on the first strike
@ShadowWizard I guess that means we can reverse the split.
"Insta-ban: just add hot water and BAM!. You're banned!"
There's probably a fortune to be made somewhere in there...
Question not related to my stupidity OR other peoples' stupidity.
How long does 'protected status' remain on a question if Community applied it?
Indefinitely (until someone removes it), or a particular period of time?
@Joe ordinary protected status is permanent, but recent change allows any 15k user to unprotect any question
If you mean locked status, it can be temporary though
@Louis yup, with animation of a unicorn casting the ban from his horn.
2:33 PM
@ShadowWizard Hmm... or from its rear end.
@Louis nah, too gross ;)
3:34 PM
@JanDvorak That won't happen.
It makes things simple when "deleted" mostly means "gone".
@SecondRikudo feeling destructive
Wow, weird ping sound here
I like it more than SE's
3:38 PM
@Braiam I like Stack Overflow's the best.
@Undo OMG...
@Undo I'd review ban all three of them instantly.
Is that guy still at it?
Hmm, apparently not.
3:43 PM
@Braiam done
I detest this box.
@Undo me too
4:18 PM
A: How to make a Multi-pane landscape layout?

Plamen PetrovIf find a solution. Thank you. :) I'm sorry. Can you unban my account?

4:33 PM
There was a "show the code" request which went unanswered.
5:51 PM
I like how the person who created this app.config file encrypted the database username and password before storing it in here. I don't like how they took that idea, and applied it to all the other general application settings and queries stored in that file.
<add key="customerSelectQuery" value="KEJFBSKhebABunchOfGarbagewk++"/"(sjdiAJjabr" />
This will be sooooo secure now!
Should have encrypted the keys as well though
For maximum security, encrypt the schema.
@Bart true, this guy is slack.
5:59 PM
@Louis Did you read my message above?
@Louis That would be awesome. You open the app.config, and it's just a mass of unintelligible letters, numbers, and symbols.
@SecondRikudo Must have missed it.
5 hours ago, by Second Rikudo
@Louis @rene @R.J you should contact our folks in the PHP room, we have browser extensions and a backlog for requests that might be useful to you.
@SecondRikudo Have a link I can bookmark?
in PHP on Stack Overflow Chat, Apr 16 at 15:24, by DaveRandom
cv-pls: Docs, Backlog | Tools: Explain, phpdbg, http://devdocs.io/ | Addons: [cv-pls], PHP Manual Linkifier | Snippets: ext/mysql | Reference: QAs
See the Docs, Backlog and [cv-pls] addon.
6:03 PM
@SecondRikudo Thanks.
@Louis The extensions are set to work on the PHP room (and sandbox) only, so some alterations may be needed.
6:30 PM
@SPArchaeologist no, you still misunderstand... I can't force anyone to do what they don't think they have to. I can encourage them, and the system can as well, but there's absolutely no way you can make someone leave useful, constructive feedback if they desire to do otherwise.
The past five years of discussions - and many more, if you include the various systems and communities that preceded us and upon whose experiences we often draw for inspiration or warning - are all concerned with somehow finding a loophole in this one core truth.
@Shog9 what's your opinion on anonymous commenting for downvoters?
@JanDvorak I'm against anonymous commenting period. But in this context it is nothing more than a band-aid over a problem that shouldn't exist in the first place.
the problem being that people like to revenge-vote people who post criticism?
I'd love to see a solution to that problem.
@JanDvorak "I'm not the downvoter, but ..."
@Bart I don't like to lie
6:35 PM
@JanDvorak the only way anonymous commenting solves that is if you make all comments anonymous.
@Shog9 how come?
oh. By posting a comment with your name you can prove you didn't downvote. Not a good attribute.
@JanDvorak that's part of it - and of course, you can always comment first. The bigger problem is simply that as much as folks don't like downvotes, a lot more folks don't like criticism - so you're essentially creating a system where you're encouraging folks to leave critical comments anonymously and positive ones under their own name.
"a lot more folks don't like criticism" - Ouch. Really?
I do like constructive criticism on my post
That surprises you @JanDvorak?
@JanDvorak If all negative comments are anonymous, there's no real motivation to be constructive in your criticisms. Indeed, it's reasonable to assume that many folks would jump at the opportunity to be as brash as possible, thinking themselves safe from any repercussions. Oh, sure, we could implement something to work around that too - but still, essentially you've just laid out a red carpet for trolls.
6:43 PM
"-1 cuz EF is totes better than hibernate duh" - anonymous 5 minutes ago
@Shog9 good point, thanks. That's indeed a danger that need to be avoided.
is it a good idea to defer explaining downvotes until a "y u downvoet" comment appears?
@jadarnel27 well, at least now you know...
"No Bart, stop shopping for sniper rifles and plane tickets. It's not @jadarnel27 who used "totes", it was just an illustration of a point"
So yeah, folks keep coming up with ever more complicated schemes to fix the problems introduced by the previous, slightly-less-complicated solution. At the end of the day, you're still left to face the fact that someone who doesn't want to comment constructively won't.
Which brings us to the major philosophical rift in all of these: are votes worth anything sans comments? I feel strongly that they are; others disagree.
I'd like to help those who would like to but are afraid of retaliation, though.
Personally, I'm not particularly diligent about commenting when I vote, or voting when I comment. I vote when I want to vote, and comment when I have something to say, and ignore the system pop-ups that tell me I should say something when I have nothing constructive to offer.
6:46 PM
I do agree that downvotes are really hard to react to without any explanation of them.
but I also agree that most folks don't care to improve.
@Bart Totes McGoats - I definitely purchased this T-shirt (for my wife).
@JanDvorak in my experience, I got a lot less (not none, but less) revenge-votes when I stopped leaving knee-jerk responses every time I down-voted. Obviously this reduces my exposure, but it also had a more subtle change in the sort of comments I left: freed from having to write something, I spent more time on my writing when I felt it valuable. IOW, less "what have you tried?" more "Have you read up on RAII?"
Not that I want to encourage you to return to the rifle shopping...
@Shog9 perhaps you have no idea, but is retaliation an actual thing? Sure, we all have seen it happen (or had it happen to us) on occasion. But I sometimes have the idea we're unnecessarily making outliers a lot more important than they really are.
@jadarnel27 don't fear, I think that by merely stating that I'm already on several watch lists ...
@Bart It happens. It's not insanely widespread, the problem is that folks remember it.
6:50 PM
@Bart I feel safer already =)
Myeah, that's my point. The one time it happens lingers on in your thoughts and suddenly it's an issue that needs addressing @Shog9
I rarely comment to questions, but if I downvote an answer, I like to explain.
SE should obviously create a feature that makes people forget the revenge downvoting happened. That is the solution, @Shog9.
@jadarnel27 so, you suggest ditching the "serial voting reversed" message?
Not a bad idea, actually.
I would have guessed "lobotomy" @JanDvorak.
6:53 PM
I was thinking about more of a "Total Recall" approach...but your idea is fine as well, @JanD.
Haha, @Bart was close =)
@jadarnel27 as in, reversing downvotes before they happen?
I don't know if I should feel proud or concerned @jadarnel27
We don't have any oracles, I'm afraid.
No, selectively erasing people's memories using futuristic, implausible technology, @JanD.
6:54 PM
@jadarnel27 umm... Total Recall doesn't feature that, I'm afraid
MiB does, though
Someone has obviously tampered with my memories of the plot of Total Recall.
@Bart right. So yeah, there's a system that automatically identifies these, and we also clean them up manually on occasion - that's happened to 27 users in the past 90 days on Stack Overflow.
@jadarnel27 actually, you can have a person forget everything already by propelling a metallic object through the person's cranium. You can also use the heart, but it acts slower.
@Shog9 So "Stop worrying about retaliation and start leaving constructive comments" then ...
@Bart That's what I do. It works pretty well, actually.
6:57 PM
@JanDvorak Ha, sucks for you. I have neither a brain nor a heart. I win .... wait ...
@Bart If you have something constructive to say, say it. If you don't, STFU.
A shockingly large number of revenge cases start with an non-constructive comment from the "victim"...
I've had about three reversals in my history.
@Shog9 Sounds like good advice.
@Shog9 hmm... I feel that revenge comments are actually warranted in that case...
@JanDvorak rolling your eyes and going for a walk is usually a better option.
7:00 PM
@Shog9 Will do, thanks.
At least I hope I will. I've already had a dispute that I should have walked away from.
My memories are not wrong. There is selective memory removal in Total Recall (at least in the 90's one, which is the only one I've seen).
Which is important. Right? Right.
What were we talking about?
@Bart My world domination plan.
Ah, the same thing we do every night Pinky ... I mean @SecondRikudo
Wow. Animaniacs reference. Classic.
7:11 PM
You have no idea how immature I truly am @jadarnel27.
@jadarnel27 actually a Pinky and Brain reference
@JanD man, you are all about correcting me today, eh? Pinky and the Brain was a "sketch" on the show Animaniacs.
In fact you are both right. It was a part of Animaniacs at first. Later it was an independent show.
Damn. I've been corrected again :-)
Huh, I actually didn't know that it eventually got a spin off. Good thing I washed my feet today.
7:20 PM
This one is likely to hang around for a while unless other folks jump in to close it. does not get much traffic and it seems that gets even less.
@Louis cv from me...
7:42 PM
Louis CK from me
@Louis OP improved the question...
@rene Yeah, I was off the computer and saw that when I came back. I've revoked my vote. (A rare occurrence indeed.)
@rene What do you usually get? (Yep, saw that before you deleted it. :P)
8:04 PM
hand gestures
@hichris123 one hour left!
@rene Oh, right.
Forgot there was a meetup today. :P
I don't know if that already exists, but I just made a userscript for that for myself
Ooooh neat
@3ventic Nice! Care to publish it?
8:09 PM
I want
Sure, but where?
is a great place
@3ventic How large is it?
Either gist or a github repo.
It might be missing something and certainly could do with a few improvements
(and not sure if it works outside tampermonkey for chrome but there it is)
Works in FF with greasemonkey as well..
8:15 PM
Well that's a plus
And when wrapped in a function works once in IE11 from the dev-tools
your link to the VLQ is broken, should be: low-quality-posts
Oh, whoopsie
Yup, just found that out too :D
There, fixed
I want to make it work like the help dropdown (click outside of it and it closes) but not sure how to do that yet.
@3ventic Click handler on the document?
or body?
8:26 PM
Ha, I just reviewed a low quality answer from Anna Lear...
@rene wat
She posted in the Sandbox question so I skipped :-)
Now I reviewed it...I give new users on mSE a chance...
@SecondRikudo Broke the whole thing for some reason
9:00 PM
@hichris123 ?
@rene Lol, now she's hiding evidence.
No! That is getting her banned, right now!
@SecondRikudo wrong room ? :)
Should have downvoted the answer...
@Simon_eQ Or maybe you are? :D
9:04 PM
@SecondRikudo I didn't know you hang out here.
Can't say I'm a regular here.
9:16 PM
Alright; who's been making fun of unicorns with 'alternative lifestyles'?
innocent whistle
Would answering "Because Unicorns" to that Meta post be pushing it?
Try "Because waffles" @Bart, I think that's safer.
Entirely depends on the colour of said waffles ....
9:39 PM
How can a users with a network wide suspension still post on various metas across the network?
Is it not instantaneous?
@Bart it's not.
Okay, that explains that then
it merely schedules a ban on every site
Thanks @JanDvorak. Didn't know that.
9:57 PM
Ha, a user that takes advice very seriously. Wow.. stackoverflow.com/questions/23214558/…
No problem @rene. Flagged as constructive.
You mean not constructive..
@Joe Huh? hears name
@rene I was gone, sorry.
10:05 PM
np...there were 3 of us...
10:20 PM
I really love it when people say they want to parse XML and produce XML and what they show is not XML.
10:46 PM
Anyone around?
Opinions on if this is spam:
A: ArrayList generics

www.chennarapu.comimport java.util.ArrayList; import java.util.Iterator; public class ArrayListIterator { public static void main(String args[]) { ArrayList al = new ArrayList(); al.add(“Santosh”); al.add(“Nag”); al.add(“Rajesh”);//www.chennarapu.com al.add(“Santosh”);...

@Undo does't answer the question, spam
flagged as spam
clever one
A: Sorting in arraylist

www.chennarapu.com import java.util.ArrayList; import java.util.Collections; public class ArrayListSort { public static void main(String[] args) { ArrayList<String> list = new ArrayList<String>(); list.add(“cc”); list.add(“AA”); list.add(“bb”);//[www.c...

^ That too.
11:12 PM
For your daily dose of programming questions on meta:
Q: Got a couple of Unity Bugs:

NocturnalKnightProblem: Assets/Scripts/NetworkManager.cs(15,63): error CS0236: A field initializer cannot reference the nonstatic field, method, or property `NetworkManager.playerPrefab' Problem: Assets/Scripts/NetworkManager.cs(15,51): error CS1502: The best overloaded method match for `UnityEngine.Network.In...


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