"Damnit Jim, I'm a mystery mutt, not a dachund"

@EleezatheOtherWorldWizard Investigating Glider lore.

@ShadowWizard Ow! Your shoes hit me on the way home!

boingboing.net/2024/08/01/…

I'm looking at this in contrast to what SE's trying to do with the dumps

@JourneymanGeek Both are monetisation of Creative Commons.

@ElementsInSpace Well, there's nothing wrong with that on its own - and I'd argue you're not paying for the data, you're paying for the hardware mostly

the difference is one opens up access to more people, and the other attempts to gatekeep access

(and ironically more people would be interested in the data dumps now than if they had done nothing, or picked a different way to prevent (or dissuade_ LLM providers from using it

heh

→ 8 messages moved to Chimney

@AndreasmovedtoCodidact Amateur.

@SPArcheon-onstrike … now with extra pepperoni.

I won't link the trailer here, but let's just say that probably @ShadowWizard would appreciate it.

You get a workshop to build your silly robot. The trailer makes it kinda clear that if you want to be childish and uncouth they won't stop you.

That said, personally I prefer the pizza megazord.

@JourneymanGeek they don't want to dissuade LLM provider from using the data. They want to gatekeep LLM providers from getting the data for free.

@JourneymanGeek Exactly. There is no ethical drive in the change. Just them trying to protect an asset

@SPArcheon-onstrike they're happy if LLM providers use the data as long as they pay

the question is really, will they, and where the money they pay ends up going

@SPArcheon-onstrike I'm a long way past seeing management as an ethical actor

nice. Editing mess put my reply above your message.

lol

.....

is this a coincidence or deliberate imitation?

co-incidence

It’s a husky.

yup

…with mascara.

naw, some of them look like that naturally

(natural mascara)

@ElementsInSpace Did you meant: Rarity?

It’s a match!

@ElementsInSpace seconds later her eyes are perfect again, so clearly the mascara grew back.

(Secret tip: always wear waterproof mascara under regular mascara)

@SPArcheon-onstrike How mean. Careful, I may run you over with my KV-1.

@AndreasmovedtoCodidact now now, at some point the russians might need that.

Also a match: (source)

@JourneymanGeek It’s probably just as safe as these lovely advanced machines.

So the 300K users can just decline my U/U flags on their comments? :)

@Starship Is there a significant backlog of comment flags? (I’m only a mod on one small site, and there isn’t any backlog there)

(On other sites when I flag comments, they usually get resolved within 24 hours, which seems very reasonable)

@ElementsInSpace My understanding is that there is one on SO. As a flagger there, it does take many many days to get resolved.

@AndreasmovedtoCodidact Maybe (at least for the larger sites), you can't review it where you have previously flagged the comment, are the author of the post, are the author of the comment, or something like that? @AndreasmovedtoCodidact

@Starship Oh, shouldn't ask me about the details. I haven't flagged anything in months (besides that answer on Politics). I just have seen nasty behaviour from 300K users before.

Ah, wonderful. They declined my R/A flag on this answer. Lovely!

@AndreasmovedtoCodidact I don't understand how that post is rude. Disagreeing with your politics isn't flag worthy.

@Tinkeringbell What other review queue is even wanted? Also, my understanding is that a significant number of flags (and an even more massive number of mod only flags) are comments, which I would assume take up a relatively large fraction of mod time for being secondary things. The existence of a review queue couldn't possibly slow things down, as it would only allow for more users to clear comment flags. The idea of two users is from the fact that it takes 3 flags to delete a comment. Continued...

SO kinda has backlogs on everything tho :D

2 users + the original flagger.

@Starship Encouraging torture of prisoners is not acceptable.

It just has massive volumes and you can't always throw more moderators at the problem

@JourneymanGeek A backlog is caused by more stuff needing doing than people who can do it doing it. If there are more people who can do it, that would help, no?

@AndreasmovedtoCodidact I'm going to invoke the vegas rule

@JourneymanGeek I'm not suggesting using more mods, in fact I'm suggesting trying to shift a mod backlog (which can be handled by very few users) to something that could be handled by hundreds/thousdans

@JourneymanGeek It's a topic which has repeatedly been discussed in this room prior to anyone mentioning posts on Politics.

@AndreasmovedtoCodidact Standard practice for dangerous criminals is not torture

@AndreasmovedtoCodidact yes, but you're specifically complaining about politics moderation

on a somewhat heated topic

Bad mod.

lol

Next topic! :D

No, but you're correct, @Tink.

@Tinkeringbell there's a reason I'm not touching on the 'core' topic here

@Tinkeringbell someone trying whose sole goal is life is genocide is a terrorist in my book...

Bad mod, bad Starship, bad Andreas...

People wanting to discuss current affairs is... a bit fraught, but has different boundaries :D

But yeah, I don't think that topic is going good places ._.

I agree. If you want to have a respectful and civil political discussion, I'll do it in a different chatroom

@Starship As for other review queues, I'm not sure. I don't come to SO all that much, or know the intricacies of the moderation there. I guess I might prioritize one for 'outdated answers'? You'd have to ask SO, but I doubt comment moderation is on the top of their priority list. And on other sites, I don't really think there's that much comment flags.

@Starship Don't know if that's productive. If you think that treating prisoners like that under some circumstance is acceptable, I don't know what effect my arguments can have. Anyway, I've discussed the topic in other rooms before, so if other people that have done so there, chime in, sure, we can move it.

@Tinkeringbell I think outdated answers shouldn't be given to the community at large since 1.They don't usually need deletion, just an edit saying that it only works for up to X version, as what if I'm on an older version of something

@AndreasmovedtoCodidact Israel is short on military personal from fighting a 7(!) front war. They don't have military personnel to escort someone to the bathroom. That's reasonable. Imagine someone's kid is killed by a terrorist because too many soliders were doing that instead of fighting the war!?

@AndreasmovedtoCodidact Besides, that is nothing compared to the torture that happens to the Israeli civilians and soliders in Hamas captivity. They have quite possibly endured the worst pain of any human beings.

Move it, move it...

I like to move it, move it...

you like to move it, move it...

MOVE IT!

I was going to say drop it like a desiccated lizard, but that works too :D

@Tinkeringbell How much Disney have you been watching

But dessicated lizards are interesting, and a good addition to any bookshelf. Why would I drop one if I ever found one?!

@Starship Growing up, A LOT.

Has been a few years since I last saw/rewatched anything though XD

This kinda stuff just sticks :P

@Starship personally I preferred the old WB stuff

@Starship Replied here.

Oh, I don't care about any of that, as long as the conversation moved, it's good.

Rain, snow or hurricane, no problem.

oh, I was just quoting Wonka, no other meaning intended

Any high rep/mod users on SO, care to comment on my above proposal for comment moderation

@Starship I do think that there are some ways that the community can help with the moderation workload on SO. I do not think comments are really the place to start, though. One big one, IMO, should be having NAA flags be considered votes for deletion similar to spam flags (obviously no rep penalty or anything). Currently the SO mods just run through the pending NAA flags and rule on them, because the alternative is to have them go through the LQP queue and take forever to be deleted by recommend deletion votes or 20k del votes. If just flags worked, it'd help with that a good bit.

@Spevacus we don't even agree on what NAA means....

The reason I think comments aren't a good place to start is because 1) There's already a severe reviewer deficiency on SO, which means it's unlikely to be helpful to have another queue, and 2) Comment deletion involves a lot of discernment, and mods typically have a better understanding on SO of what comments should stick around and what shouldn't. I suspect mods spend a lot less time on comment flags than the rest of the flag types, because they're pretty easy to handle.

@SPArcheon-onstrike What do ya mean?

@Spevacus A post starting with "Although this does not directly answer the question, I wanted to share my thoughts." is an answer and apparently thinking it should be deleted as noise so that the poster may learn to not to try to hijack others question for their rep farming is foolery because no mod can be requested to know when an answer is not answering. EVEN WEN THE POSTERS THEMSELVES SAYS SO.

→ 16 messages moved to Chimney

(and if you still remember ironically self admittance was the clause Stack intended to use for moderating AI generated posts)

@SPArcheon-onstrike uhhhh

really?

@JourneymanGeek Really.

meta.stackexchange.com/help/deleted-answers

pretty sure that falls under "commentary on the question or other answers"

@JourneymanGeek I said this before. I currently see flagging as a lottery when the results greatly depends on who will handle the flag.

I am even aware of people using the "flag until you get a mod that agrees" technique.

@SPArcheon-onstrike eh, its subjective

oh that usually dosen't work on my sites

I'm a big fan of chatty mods :D

> I have a project that reference log4net. In the package I have specified that the assembly should be deployed to the GAC. When I try to deploy the application from VS2010 I get the following error: [cut]

Answer:

> At the risk of answering a question with a question, why use Log4Net?

Flag status: disputed

that would get converted to a comment on a site I'm on :D

Well, if it was an NAA flag and it was disputed, that means the review disagreed with you, not that a mod disagreed with you.

@JourneymanGeek which brings us back to "flag until agree"

want another? This.

Stumbled upon this while working on the ui-grid some time ago, had the same issue.

Asks why the rendering for the pager is off.

Answer: you can hide it.

Flagged once.

Disputed.

Flagged twice. Declined

> This post cannot be considered an answer to the question because it attempts to provide an alternative approach where the original asker has clearly stated (as reinforced by his comments on this very post) that he want to understand why the original approach doen't produce a result identical to the sample found in the component documentation and is not currently seeking a workaround.

So, forgive me for being blunt but whoever wrote this clownery...

> Declined - flags should not be used to indicate technical inaccuracies, or an altogether wrong answer

did not even read or understand my flag.

Well, it could be an technically wrong answer, and in this case, especially looking at the answer, one approach

IT IS NOT AN ANSWER.

See? Subjective

IT. IS. NOT. AN. ANSWER.

An answer to a question has to ANSWER the question.

Just a quick tl;dr: The question is "Why do the pagination controls look weird" and that answer says "You can hide them like this"

If the question ask you to explain why something does not work providing an alternative IS NOT AN ANSWER.

It doesn't explain why the pagination controls look off. It doesn't explain how to fix them. It'd be like saying "Why do these french fries taste funny?" and saying "Here's how you can eat without french fries"

And trying to hide behind "I can't judge if this is right" only makes you look a clown.

AT BEST that is a comment.

And if someone says otherwise, this means that I am free to go explain how Twilight became an alicorn on a post asking how to configure SharePoint online managed properties.

Because is is the exact same thing.

BTW, since Piper was wondering about what "motivates" users on the site, I may add that this is one of the core mood-killers I have about how the site works.

I don't really care about rep as a number.

Especially when I am told that the "plz help me reach 1000 followers" youtube like post has the same dignity as an answer as my research.

@Spevacus Let's say that not enough users review and there is a backlog. That's still a plus as they've eliminated at least some of the work for the mods. I would imagine that anyone at 50k has any idea of what comments should be deleted, and at least have an idea of what they don't know. Also, how is too hard to high rep users but also very easy to handle?@Spevacus

@SPArcheon-onstrike I need an explanation.

@AndreasmovedtoCodidact The MLP fandom is a void that absorbs all light. Over the years thousand of great songs, animations and fan comics have been lost and are basically disappeared from the web today, while many horrible creations remain still.

Among the lost great fan comic there was one that depicted Twilight having a nightmare at night about Celestia wanting to turn her into an alicorn to sell new toys.

The comic ended with Twilight waking up and screaming, while in the distance Princess Celestia is seen talking with Hasbro HQ on the phone.

@SPArcheon-onstrike Never knew Sharepoint configuration was this intricate.

@Starship While I see the rationale, in addition to what Spevacus and Tinkeringbell said, handling some comment flags (Unfriendly or unkind and harassment, bigotry, or abuse) may warrant use of mod tools, even if they aren't custom flags. If a hypothetical user is posting sufficiently inappropriate comments, that could rise to a level where some mod tools (suspension, mod message, etc.) are needed.

!!/tea Spe before leaving to wash dishes

ooo Earl Grey

Oooof, tea.

🚽

@Spevacus well, not Early here, exactly 12am actually.

gong

@SPArcheon-onstrike yay! Sounds good. ;)

@Starship oops. At least those were my soft shoes. :D

@KevinB Haven’t been here in ages, but came in just to give us a toilet? Better give some 💩in return. ;)

@ShadowWizard Early Grey, colour of the sky.