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Journeyman Geek

1:05 AM

→ 57 messages moved to Chimney

Spevacus

4:22 AM

Thanks for cleaning up there Mr. Geek

Journeyman Geek

5:34 AM

np

Feeds

stackoverflow.blog/2023/01/31/…

Journeyman Geek

@Feeds What do oneboxes really tell us?

tripleee

8:10 AM

flag-pls spam returning spammer (MS) superuser.com/questions/1765879

Journeyman Geek

8:28 AM

→ 12 messages moved to Chimney

@tripleee I'd do better but someone else was kind enough to handle both the user and the post ;)

DavidPostill

:)

tripleee

8:58 AM

flag-pls spam (MS) patents.stackexchange.com/questions/25132

user

haven't seen DialFrost in a while. Wonder how they're doing.

Shadow Wizard Chasing Stars

10:06 AM

@user well people come and go, e.g. even @Luuklag disappeared from here... :(

@tripleee -7, still alive

Journeyman Geek

The school/work year's also just started

Shadow Wizard Chasing Stars

@JourneymanGeek yeah he was always talking about ski and stuff so sounds like he was in long holiday which might be over.

Eleeza the Other World Wizard

10:32 AM

Strange, I feel like I periodically appear and disappear over months or years…

tripleee

flag-pls spam (MS) superuser.com/questions/1765911

Shadow Wizard Chasing Stars

@EleezatheOtherWorldWizard not just a feeling, that's the truth lol. You first arrived in 2019 and was active until 2020 then you disappeared, only to return two years later in your full glory. :D

@tripleee already chewed

Journeyman Geek

@EleezatheOtherWorldWizard that's a normal thing

@ShadowWizardChasingStars burps

Shadow Wizard Chasing Stars

lol

tripleee

11:05 AM

flag-pls spam returning spammer (MS) judaism.stackexchange.com/a/132988

chew on that

they previously spammed a Veganism.SE question about vegan dog food ... of course, with a link to non-vegan dog food

tripleee

12:35 PM

flag-pls spam (MS) lifehacks.stackexchange.com/a/26985

Shadow Wizard Chasing Stars

1:00 PM

@tripleee already nuked however spammer has another one.

tripleee

good find, thanks

Shadow Wizard Chasing Stars

@Glor is mod there but probably busy.

The others probably fall under "small site mods" I discussed yesterday so won't touch spam.

Shadow Wizard Chasing Stars

1:22 PM

@JourneymanGeek just to be fair, something like this is not very rare, and don't think frowned upon by staff. Just need to pick correct staff, which RP wasn't good at. Though since @V2Blast is pingable here, pinging here should be done before creating whole new room just to ask "Take a look on my question please".

Glorfindel

1:53 PM

@tripleee is this spam then too? stackoverflow.com/a/75250672/4751173

The Lifehacks posts are gone.

Journeyman Geek

2:06 PM

@ShadowWizardChasingStars and/or you know the CM's ok with it

or mod for that matter. I'm slightly disinclined to chat 'privately' unless its a matter of critical importance

I will chew on your ears here tho :D

Tinkeringbell

@ShadowWizardChasingStars You're thinking wrong ("don't think frowned upon by staff"), or there would've been no stepping in ;)

Shadow Wizard Chasing Stars

3:07 PM

@Glorfindel yes.

@Tinkeringbell the link I posted proves otherwise.

If this was bad thing or frowned upon, Catija should have said something but she's totally fine with it.

And I can find more.

Tinkeringbell

@ShadowWizardChasingStars Sigh. The link you posted doesn't prove a thing, as it isn't a user pinging a staff member to get attention for their not-so-well-received post. And sure, there may be a lot of examples you could quote, but you still don't know if it's frowned upon or just staff being polite

Winter-bash is not a good example to use.

There have also been plenty of cases where staff did not prefer to be pinged, and you've seen that too. Like with Shog and Sonic.

Shadow Wizard Chasing Stars

@Tinkeringbell I'm talking about contacting staff in "private", as far as SE allow private for common users. And creating a chat room with someone is kind of pinging that someone, as it send them notification exactly like ordinary chat ping.

Tinkeringbell

Yes. And unless you have a very good reason to do so, you don't. This wasn't a very good reason to do so.

Avoiding winter bash spoilers may have been.

But, since we also don't want the user to just go pinging staff in here with the same kinds of questions... there's no need to argue there's a difference between making a room or pinging them somewhere else: the principle of 'just don't' remains the same.

Shadow Wizard Chasing Stars

@Tinkeringbell I disagree, but can't find the time to start serious discussion.

Tinkeringbell

@ShadowWizardChasingStars Then don't start it by saying you think things are fine.

Because they were not fine.

Shadow Wizard Chasing Stars

3:16 PM

I believe that having staff available here means users can contact them and ask questions.

Tinkeringbell

@ShadowWizardChasingStars Sure, to a reasonable extent.

This wasn't reasonable.

Shadow Wizard Chasing Stars

@Tinkeringbell no, that's not what you and @JourneymanGeek keep saying and acting against.

Journeyman Geek

@ShadowWizardChasingStars naw

Shadow Wizard Chasing Stars

whenever someone dares to ping or contact a CM.... boom.

Journeyman Geek

This is generally a social space

Shadow Wizard Chasing Stars

3:18 PM

Slash and chewing.

Journeyman Geek

Any 'official' action, mod or CM's basically cause we feel its helpful

and that's generally the stand I've had throughout being a MSE mod

Tinkeringbell

@ShadowWizardChasingStars I have been saying stuff like it since starting this conversation with you: chat.meta.stackexchange.com/transcript/message/9410492#9410492 < The link proves nothing because it's about a different situation and chat.meta.stackexchange.com/transcript/message/9410503#9410503 which talks about a 'good reason to do so'.

Shadow Wizard Chasing Stars

@Tinkeringbell but who decides what's "good"?

I think it's legit to ask about something you care about.

You don't, and that's fine.

Journeyman Geek

@ShadowWizardChasingStars well in general - whoever's involved first, and secondly the mods or CMs

I think it breaks down to letting staff be regular users as well without having to constantly deal with 'work'

Tinkeringbell

@ShadowWizardChasingStars Sure, so we can all go ping CMs to death with any feature request we care about? You do realize how silly that sounds, don't you....

2

It's what has driven CMs away from this room before, users endlessly pinging them to take a look at this post or that comment and to reply to that.

Kevin B

3:22 PM

but my ideas are more important

Tinkeringbell

Yeah well, if we follow Sha's way of doing things, you better automate a script to create rooms and send pings, or you'll get no attention ever.

Journeyman Geek

makes @KevinB fill in an environmental impact statement for the idea lightbulb

Shadow Wizard Chasing Stars

@Tinkeringbell sounds good.

Tinkeringbell

Honestly, we're not 'evil' mods that swoop in to assert our power whenever we see the chance. We listen, we take requests, we talk. In this case, it's not just Geek going into that room rubbing his hands together thinking it's an excellent chance to be a mod...

Kevin B

most, anyway

Tinkeringbell

3:26 PM

So, if there's some mod going 'don't ping CMs or create rooms with them just because you want attention for your post', that probably means something. And arguing on other user's behalf that it should be fine (with an example that has totally different context too) is really... unuseful.

@KevinB shhh, most of SE staff hasn't picked up on me yet :P

Journeyman Geek

@KevinB If I want to be evil I want people to know it

I mean glorious kabooms, marching bands, THE WORKS

Shadow Wizard Chasing Stars

@Tinkeringbell nah, that's not how I see it either. I do see a "You are not allowed to do certain action", while that action should be allowed sometimes, to some extent. Extent that isn't clear or documented anywhere.

And that's probably the problem.

Journeyman Geek

@ShadowWizardChasingStars though - uh...

why did you pop into a "room for user and another user" ?

Shadow Wizard Chasing Stars

@JourneymanGeek because I can?

Tinkeringbell

@ShadowWizardChasingStars Well, in which hypothetical situation would you think it's appropriate to ping staff you otherwise are having no conversation with, out of the blue, about a non-well-received question of your own, instead of flagging it for status-review?

Shadow Wizard Chasing Stars

3:31 PM

You could set it as private or delete.

Journeyman Geek

Well yes, then people complain we hide things

Shadow Wizard Chasing Stars

@JourneymanGeek of course.

Journeyman Geek

Also , there's generally a lot of context behind the scenes we can't talk about

Shadow Wizard Chasing Stars

@Tinkeringbell in situation where the staff appears to be nice and friendly in comments, and maybe seeing past examples of users starting rooms with staff. (That I can't really know.)

@JourneymanGeek hehe that's what you always say eventually.

Journeyman Geek

@ShadowWizardChasingStars "Nice and friendly" dosen't mean "at your disposal" tho

@ShadowWizardChasingStars which is generally true

Tinkeringbell

3:34 PM

@ShadowWizardChasingStars Yeah, no. "no conversation with", so also no conversation already going in comments about e.g. improving that question.

Shadow Wizard Chasing Stars

NATIONAL SECURITY!!! TOP SECRET!! CAN'T BE DISCUSSED.

Tinkeringbell

And if you see past examples and you're wrong, well, then there's mods to tell you you interpreted the past examples wrongly.

Journeyman Geek

@ShadowWizardChasingStars I can ping/email quite a few members of staff

I'm not going to though unless absolutely essential

Tinkeringbell

Honestly, all that was happened was that a user was told to in the future, not make rooms with staff members for asking about their own, negatively voted posts out of the blue.

That's a simple, straight-forward rule to abide by.

Shadow Wizard Chasing Stars

@JourneymanGeek easy to get confused for random people. ;)

Journeyman Geek

3:36 PM

@ShadowWizardChasingStars Well - explicit consent is good

Tinkeringbell

Honestly, life consists of two simple rules.

"When in doubt, don't"

"When not in doubt, do, but be prepared to be told you should not next time".

There could be a "when in doubt, do", but that's mostly for irrational stuff like fear of heights XD

Shadow Wizard Chasing Stars

@Tinkeringbell nope, that's not how it was presented at all. The rule I saw being thrown at the user is "Never contact staff again in chat" - it wasn't mentioned that the issue is the negative score of the question.

Tinkeringbell

@ShadowWizardChasingStars Well then you need to get your eyes checked, because Geek's very first message states: "its really not ok to ping staff cause you need an answer to something that's well not critical."

Not "it's really not okay to ping staff period"

Journeyman Geek

@ShadowWizardChasingStars well that's context the non staff party would know

And the closure of it.

Tinkeringbell

and that it's very non critical

Journeyman Geek

3:43 PM

The community can deal with it

And frankly I was very deeply meh about it either way

Tinkeringbell

Even if it were critical: there's status-review tags, flags (for an emergency CM escalation) or the contact-us form, which are all better bets than creating a chat room.

Shadow Wizard Chasing Stars

@JourneymanGeek same, there are deleted comments so you know. But still, something irked me in the chat conversation.

Journeyman Geek

@ShadowWizardChasingStars well there's no in irksome way to tell someone not to do something

At the same time, well. It's not your business to be irked over 😁

Kevin B

i mean

> Never contact staff in chat

seems like a fairly simple rool to follow

staff being in chat, or on site in general, is different from you or I being here: they're on the job, and being here is effectively work even when outside of work hours, it's not polite/effective to ping individual employees when there's multiple that could handle a given task/inquiry

Shadow Wizard Chasing Stars

4:01 PM

@JourneymanGeek yeah that's a known bug I have.

And I don't particularly like or cherish that specific user, downvoting many of their posts etc, it's the.... concept? Not sure. lol

@KevinB yep, and that's the vibe I still get. :D

Journeyman Geek

@KevinB that's not the rule tho

Kevin B

why can't it be? all rules have exceptions

Journeyman Geek

It's 'don't pester staff's especially as a way to end round around proper processes

@KevinB uh this

Unless the staff has exceptions - like the backlog

Kevin B

> unless it's unrelated to their job as an employee, or the pings were specifically asked for

Shadow Wizard Chasing Stars

@JourneymanGeek and @g3rv4 who do like to be pinged from time to time.

(he replies ~30% of the times which means he has decent "I'm busy" filter.)

Journeyman Geek

4:15 PM

@ShadowWizardChasingStars well not about work and there's a clear understanding of it

And virtual coffee

Shadow Wizard Chasing Stars

@JourneymanGeek hmm

Breaking the rules time!

@g3r hey, what have you done at work today?

:P

Coffee is for me.

user

5:07 PM

did anyone else suddenly get the cookie policy popup on stackoverflow.com?

g3rv4

@ShadowWizardChasingStars o/ chime in on a lot of things that are really not my problem... that's awesome... I don't have to follow up on any of those

DavidPostill

@user Yep

Meta Andrew T.

11

Q: Stack Overflow is adding a 1st party targeting cookie

We have created a new 1st party targeting cookie, “prov_tgt”. This cookie collects the information we will use to serve targeted course advertisements. You can find this new cookie in the list of targeting cookies Stack Exchange uses with your consent. In accordance with our policy on when we req...

Journeyman Geek

Hmm. Why is it on mso

Ah

user

@MetaAndrewT. ah thanks!

Shadow Wizard Chasing Stars

6:10 PM

@g3rv4 hehe, you're a good person. :D

@MetaAndrewT. eww that cookie does not look tasty.

I don't want online courses.

@user yw

:P

user

@ShadowWizardChasingStars not you D:<

Shadow Wizard Chasing Stars

plz-delete slow internet connection needz one moar. @rene @Mith @Spe and I always forget who else asked to be pinged... :(

Mithical

already voted

Shadow Wizard Chasing Stars

Interesting part, mod(s) deleted several newer off topic questions and somehow missed that one.

ohhh, probably because it has answer so they assumed it's on topic.

(or the script they're using, more likely.)

@user you're still welcome. :-D

hehe @rene for the silent rescue. ;)

Spevacus

rene too powerful

user

6:22 PM

@ShadowWizardChasingStars =.= *accepts the generous offering

Shadow Wizard Chasing Stars

yay

taking some extra power from @Spe and giving to @use

user

@ShadowWizardChasingStars MWAHAHA UNLIMITED POWER

Shadow Wizard Chasing Stars

@user fake power actually. buwahahahaha

Using it will result in falling asleep instantly. :D

user

@ShadowWizardChasingStars NOOOOOOOOOO-*loud snoring

Mithical

6:40 PM

@sha I use a laptop and a phone, there is no such thing as "middle click" for me :P

user

@Mithical on some laptop / OS you can set three/four finger press/tap on touchpad as middle click

Feeds

7:08 PM

CEO update: Eliminating obstacles to productivity, efficiency, and learning

Prashanth Chandrasekar on January 31, 2023

It was a busy and successful quarter, so although my first update of 2023 takes place in a fundamentally different environment than my first of 2022, my optimism for the future has not changed. It’s simply joined by a dose of pragmatism.

Kevin B

blah blah buy teams blah blah

2

Shadow Wizard Chasing Stars

@Mithical oh. And yeah, right click and opening in new tab from the menu indeed does not mark it as read.

user

8:23 PM

@ShadowWizardChasingStars feature-request made in inbox post: meta.stackexchange.com/a/384266/997587

it's more of a technical limitation due to how browsers work. The way browsers work here might be a plus for security: It gives you a way to open something from a site without that site knowing what it is (unless it's one of those links that the site modified to do a ping to itself saying what you clicked)

Kevin B

9:12 PM

dunno if i'd consider it a limitation, given they clearly know how to determine how much of a page has been read by the user

at least, not a technical limitation

monetary maybe

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