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2:41 AM
19 messages moved to Chimney
 
3:28 AM
The point of automation isn't to make the boring parts more interesting
its not to do it at all
 
3:55 AM
So, automate creating the automation?
 
4:26 AM
I mean not do the boring stuff
We have a daily task where we need to copy data from one spreadsheet to another
the ideal is... not
I basically press a button, wait 5 min, check through (cause there's some stuff I don't know how to automate), press another button, then send the upload.
I don't even want to do that
 
@Feeds Deeponeboxes
 
@Feeds Chat analytics: Less oneboxes, more text
 
 
2 hours later…
6:54 AM
@JourneymanGeek well, I get it as "if you don't have to do the boring parts, what's left are the non-boring parts of your job, so it's more interesting". The concept is valid. :)
 
@ShadowTheKidWizard what if your job is all boring? :D
 
If all your job would be automated, well, you'll stay without a job.
@JourneymanGeek ^
:D
 
@ShadowTheKidWizard I didn't say I could automate all of it :D
but the bits I streamlined/automated are not "more interesting"
they're "I can get this over with quicker"
 
So less relevant for the blog post. ;)
 
People read the blog posts? :D
(Actually they do but..)
 
7:08 AM
lol
 
@ShadowTheKidWizard fairly content lite
but it does sound like "don't do boring/complicated stuff"
over "make it "fun""
 
Yeah, you got a point. As usual. ;)
 
7:24 AM
@Feeds if I saw a post like that on SE with SEO keywords like "assistant" linked to related pages on someone's site in a way that doesn't make sense in the sentence, I would flag it as spam.
 
Isn't one of the purposes of the blog to... spam legally?
 
@RyanM I'm assume partner posts involves SE getting money :D
 
I sure hope so, if they're gonna write like that.
The links are all reasonable except for the "assistant" one, where they clearly couldn't figure out how to work it in organically.
 
@RyanM Or its something they're used to
@ShadowTheKidWizard with respect to that comment thread
Sometimes I wonder if that period of time that things were super bad (SE basically scrambling to sort out finances, firing people, going community hostile)...
If people were incompetent or malicious (and trying to basically drive stuff to the ground), and which would be worse >_>
 
@JourneymanGeek not sure what you mean. Yes, things were bad, and there were reasons. Even the grumpy me though don't think anything was done with malicious intent by management. They just.... didn't know how to do it better.
So yeah, "incompetent" is the key word. :)
 
7:36 AM
@ShadowTheKidWizard Well yeah, but the level of cluelessness for some of it is just... hard to grok
 
Maybe "lack of caring" as well, which is closer to "malicious", but still not exactly there.
 
Hanlon's razor
 
@Mithical your new shaving razor? ;)
oh well I'll Google
 
Hanlon's razor is an adage or rule of thumb that states "never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." Known in several other forms, it is a philosophical razor that suggests a way of eliminating unlikely explanations for human behavior. It is likely named after Robert J. Hanlon, who submitted the statement to Murphy's Law Book Two (1980). Similar statements have been recorded since at least the 18th century. == Origin == A similar quotation appears in Robert A. Heinlein's novella Logic of Empire (1941). The character "Doc" in Heinlein's story described the "devil...
 
For sake of others, I'll quote it here:
> never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity
oh it's oneboxed. :P
 
7:39 AM
@Mithical well - I've seen some of it first hand, and it was cluelessness
and an unwillingness/inability/communication break down
 
@ShadowTheKidWizard And ignored the advice of people who did know what they were doing. That's bordering on malice already.
 
@Mithical heh
"No, I've made a decision, and that's final"
(current boss ._.)
 
@Mithical closer, yes, but keep in mind they might just not trust those people, or even ego is involved. "No way they can know better than me!"
Ego wars can kill the best places...
@JourneymanGeek sounds like most bosses. :D
 
@ShadowTheKidWizard ah, the tricky thing is as SE got bigger the veil got thicker
 
@ShadowTheKidWizard Yup. Utter incompetence. Luckily, things have improved.
 
7:42 AM
@Mithical luck, and some very capable people inside who didn't give up.
 
In theory if there was something completely terrible going on, I at least know who to blame talk to now
on the record
@ShadowTheKidWizard As I was telling someone....
 
SE went from 4 CMs , who I suspect were vaguely on "we're trying to get them to leave"
to basically roughly as many CMs as we've ever had, with the team growing by roughly a new CM a quarter
workload's probably heavy
@ShadowTheKidWizard If
 
also from "escalations handled in months" to "escalations handled in days"
 
@JourneymanGeek well yes, that's major part of the overall "getting better".
 
7:47 AM
@ShadowTheKidWizard which I'm appreciative of
but I kinda think the 'worst' of it should be a cautionary tale
 
@JourneymanGeek and here I lost you. ;(
 
(or just don't know the background?)
 
Oh just in general!
That things were bad, they got better
 
...which is good, because I've raised 11 escalations in the past 6 hours.
 
7:49 AM
but people need to remember the bad so it dosen't get that way again
@RyanM still waiting on my big one
but the small ones have been ok
 
Yeah, mine should be pretty easy, unless the voting rings are bigger than they look to me.
It's all voting fraud and plagiarism.
 
@RyanM I wonder if that really really shiny/expensive tool shog used to use is still around
 
Expensive?
 
@RyanM in terms of computational resources
like you could run it, but it took ages
 
@JourneymanGeek SQL queries?
 
7:50 AM
but would throw together really nice graphs linking users
 
@ShadowTheKidWizard bit more than that
 
Oh, yeah, they still use that.
Envious that you don't know the answer to that question off the top of your head ;-)
 
also tbh
@RyanM Not really as bad an issue on MSE and SU
 
Yeah, hence the envy :-p
That's not a slight on you by any means.
 
7:52 AM
And I'm mostly running on fumes so there's a lot I forget/don't follow up on
@RyanM there's less value to SU rep than SO
the only value in MSE rep really is 'access' as far as getting taken seriously I guess
 
Mostly that we see responses with nice charts and a userscript to view a table...pretty regularly.
 
In theory if you're in the 'right' places in the world, might help you get hired by SE
 
lol
MSE has all sorts of strangeness
Like how we need tables of contents for posts
 
haha. yep...and people don't get annoyed at you for posting 13 answers to a question.
 
7:56 AM
Well sometimes its justified
Its the wierd situation too of "Its not a ticketing system, but people like to use it, so its a ticketing system"
 
I was going to guess I was somewhere close to the record...but actually I'm not. The record is 67 answers to one question.
 
lol
maybe more
there's also deleted answers
 
Good point. Just checked, though, and that's still the record (and the correct number for that post).
 
In theory you should have the same on MSO?
 
8:07 AM
ah ok
but the rough thing :D
 
On MSO, the record is 25, on the incredibly buggy high-contrast-mode launch.
 
8:40 AM
ah, one thing we're bigger in :D :D :D
 
Also, more programming questions :D (compared to MSO)
 
.....
Its so bad I think every MSE mod has the lost souls userscript installed
 
I have the Super Shotgun installed instead.
Adds a lovely "Not Meta" button that downvotes, closes, and deletes the post in a single click.
There are other buttons, too, but I get less use out of them.
I also have another button that instantly closes a post with a generic "not about programming" reason in one click.
A button that bans and destroys a user in one click and three confirmatory keypresses... that one gets a lot of use.
 
I tend to think needing to use a userscript for this feels like a failing
 
Oh I agree.
A lot of this stuff should be part of the UI. But it's not, so...
Also the fact that destroying a user doesn't also ban them for a year is annoying. That would save a lot of spam in our diamond inbox. Like half of it is us banning spammers.
 
8:51 AM
I feel like that's something we can ask for
 
Yeah we probably should.
 
If there's a mistake the user can probably contact SE and ask
 
@RyanM Is it really necessary for it to be a year? IIRC, it already adds a 14 day suspension, is that not enough for SO?
 
Yeah. Or they could let them reply to the ban somehow when they recreate the account, but that would be more dev work.
 
@Tinkeringbell 7
and they come back
 
8:54 AM
@JourneymanGeek 14
 
@Tinkeringbell I have seen people wait that long and post more spam from the same account, and I've seen them quickly recreate profiles.
 
Pretty sure it was a week
 
It's 14 days.
 
mea culpa ._.
 
8:54 AM
But at least you managed to get me to search for evidence :P
@RyanM Yeah, recreation shouldn't really be a problem if they're suspended, but if they really wait 14 days before posting again from a recreated account, that's dedication XD
 
I can't say for sure if people are posting spam on the recreated accounts, too, in part because, once again...the tooling kind of sucks.
 
@Tinkeringbell just have a script that cycles through credentials
 
Fair enough, automated the boring parts...
 
A lot of these accounts are definitely created in advance..."aged accounts" is (apparently) a thing, according to a spammer shilling them on Stack Overflow.
it's not unusual for the accounts to be a few weeks old when they start spamming
At any rate, we currently do, as a matter of course, suspend spammers for a year when we destroy them...
 
I had a one year 3 month old account spam
then nuke it
 
8:58 AM
...which might also be partly because it's easier to do that than to just destroy them, and now we're back to "the mod UI sucks"
 
@RyanM Ehh, yes and no
the mod UI does sometimes suck
 
... take a 14-day recreation while waiting to recreate account?
 
but the fundamental problem is the tools to stop it also need some focus
 
the tools to stop spam?
 
@RyanM well yeah
or as I like to say "reduce the profitability of spamming"
 
9:00 AM
I think that's a separate, but related, problem.
 
need moar periodical accounts clean-up system...
 
but definitely a real problem.
 
@MetaAndrewT. I need a better way to say 'expensive'
But it takes a lot of resources to clean them up
manually or automatically
 
unfortunately
 
@JourneymanGeek costly
 
9:04 AM
@ShadowTheKidWizard ._.
I mean in terms of resources, not cash money
 
> costing a lot; expensive.
> "major problems requiring costly repairs"
Sounds like it can also be used for resources.
Something costs a lot of resources, so it's costly. :)
 
@ShadowTheKidWizard people assume it means money tho
but It could mean that
or dev time
 
+1 costly ("costly in terms of...")
 
 
2 hours later…
11:28 AM
@JNat and yet another cross site spammer waits for your handling, after long years of being silent member on SO. Thanks! :)
Smells like the speed of @Journeyman's nuking. ;)
(it was SU spam)
@JourneymanGeek oh, so the other SU mod who roams here, perhaps. :D
 
Actually no
community killed
the user tho
 
@tripleee k
Fun fact, spammer has account on SO for over a year, but without spammy info.
 
@ShadowTheKidWizard the interesting thing is I think someone cleared out the account
and the spammer didn't even notice (but then again, its probably a bot)
 
@JourneymanGeek no, unless identity stolen, looks like it's really her. Wonder if it's worth reporting to LinkedIn she's spamming sites over the internet.
 
@ShadowTheKidWizard unless that's fake too
I could put there that I'm vice president for left sided toilet seats at spoo and urien inc.
 
11:40 AM
@JourneymanGeek well goal of spam is to help the company gain visits, so if they hire spammer that taking the identity of one of their own employees it's quite silly.
@JourneymanGeek oh, you mean fake LinkedIn?
 
11:54 AM
yup
 
I think they mean if you trust information you find on LinkedIn, I have a high-ranking question and answer site for sale
 
lol
Well from own experience 90% of LinkedIn profiles are job hunters anyway.
 
12:16 PM
15 messages moved to Chimney
 
and yet, I'm still here =^^=
@ShadowTheKidWizard I'd move there though!
 
12:48 PM
@curious you're the 21st
@curious purrfect! :D
 
21 is half of 42, seems like a good number
 
 
2 hours later…
3:16 PM
@V2Blast I get the intent, but its rather amusing to see SO get referred to Stack Overflow (in english)
 
3:35 PM
@JourneymanGeek Lol, when I was originally making the list (internally) I was handling a request from Stack Overflow in Portuguese to change the setting, so it was a necessary clarification at the time :P
 
 
2 hours later…
5:36 PM
Fast Moderation 101
 
Oh THAT was me
 
hehe
Should put a message on SU: "Don't bother to spam, it would be nuked in matter of seconds". :D
 

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