Tavern on the Meta - 2021-09-11

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12:04 AM

^ Then they'll be fully cocked.

3 hours later…

3:07 AM

Hi all i had a question. why do the staff and employees use meta to welcome people to SE or say farewell to people? why do they use a Question and Answer format instead of just updating their blog and pointing people there. like put a Header/Link to the sticky that says Featured on meta with a link to the blog? Was going to ask this as a question but it probably can be answered here better

Ekadh Singh - Reinstate Monica

@JcbJoe iirc new employees used to be announced on the blog, but was then moved to meta. The community was quite happy about it, but I don’t remember why right now.

Journeyman Geek

@EkadhSingh-ReinstateMonica Back then, the blog wasn't a corporate blog

It was a blog for SE

I suspect a few early employees predated meta

3:28 AM

I've been working on chocolate bar annealing techniques to try to produce the perfect laser s'more. Maybe don't mention that on the grant application though.

4:07 AM

Is there any post about age to create account on SO/ SE (don't blame me, I search on meta but search lead no where. I am weak for searching keywords)? 13 years old user is not deleted for create account ?

This meta.stackexchange.com/questions/61770 ? 13 year olds can use the site (assuming they're outside the EU).

Thanks @EkadhSingh-ReinstateMonica i was going to ask that as a question. thought i would get downvoted. so i asked here

@JourneymanGeek should i ask that as a question to get more feedback or is what you said what happend?

Journeyman Geek

4:23 AM

@JcbJoe It pretty much is what happened

So - essentially 'early early' SO stuff was on Jeff's personal blog, the SE blog (and others) came later

Originally SE blog was the place for information, then stuff drifted to meta and marketing took more ownership of the blog until it was pretty useless for most of us :D

@cigien thanks.

Thanks @JourneymanGeek

@EkadhSingh-ReinstateMonica @Jcb, There were some observations made about it. 1. Unfocused: "Who is the intended audience for the Stack Overflow blog?", 2. Disliked: "StackOverflow.Blog isn't that great", 3. Disengaging: "Blog vs meta announcements" (on the blog all replies were moderated and there is no voting), more ...

4 hours later…

Journeyman Geek

8:11 AM

@JNat uh. I'm not sure if this one is for the backlog but its... straaaaange... stackexchange.com/users/22701063/sean-kropaczewski

→ 11 messages moved to Chimney

5 hours later…

Journeyman Geek

1:18 PM

→ 14 messages moved to Chimney

1:46 PM

what's with the DV -- I'm 100% certain of what I am saying, excerpts before didn't count, semantics aside

Journeyman Geek

@ymb1 can't really say unless you're the DVer ._.

@JourneymanGeek just venting :)

Journeyman Geek

Unless they assumed it was 'obvious'

If so, they should have posted an answer, with citations ;)

I'm certain excerpt edits never counted

regardless if excerpts are wikis

Journeyman Geek

I don't remember :D

and I don't think I ever did suggested edits as a newish user for some reason

1:51 PM

they're not suggested

I'm >20k and they go through right away, excerpts never counted, wikis did, I know for a simple reason:

I have but two remaining badges, and that one its progress is always on my profile

Journeyman Geek

ah

and that comment saying excerpt are wikis, is only getting negative attention and is 100% wrong -- an excerpt of a book is not a book

2:07 PM

@ymb1 well, according to SE, it is...

@MetaAndrewT. is wrong or right? please see latest update, bobble found a confirmation of what I'm saying

Journeyman Geek

@ymb1 I'd... wait for an answer

Meta is really good at digging these things up, given time

Well, can't say if/when it has changed, but I just tested editing tag excerpt only and the count increased...

The FAQ is community-curated, so it can be outdated btw.

@MetaAndrewT. thanks added as repro in the body

I'm 100% certain something changed, since when I'm not sure, but definitely within the last 30 days if not less

I also didn't want that badge, but that's something else :D

now I have to display on my profile the one badge remaining:

user image

but I'm not gonna :P unless I press that un-undoable button "track next one"

2 hours later…

4:01 PM

@MetaAndrewT. was your test an edit to a blank excerpt?

4:44 PM

@ymb1 Our Wiki calls it a "body", while your profile calls it a "description" - meta.stackexchange.com/tags/tag-wiki/info vs. aviation.stackexchange.com/users/14897/ymb1?tab=activity - see, you are credited with both actions, creating the excerpt did create the empty description.

4:58 PM

@ymb1 yes

@MetaAndrewT. thanks for the confirmation; I've updated the FAQ and announcement

trusted users (>20k) get their name attached to the blank wiki when doing so, an "oddity"

2 hours later…

6:43 PM

@SonictheAnonymousHedgehog following up on yesterday's discussion. Here's an example of one post, and another post among MSO's most upvoted mentioning "announcer" that have outdated info about the internal link exclusion. So it's no wonder I was lured into a false sense of security about that info.

There are only 48 announcer hits on MSO. But I'm unsure how welcome an update edit from me would be by all those OP's...

7:36 PM

@JcbJoe I am uncertain about your edit: "(on iOS Safari click without hold, and go back)", it implies that you can't simply click on something without a popup asking you what you want to do; that click-and-hold is the default, for simply clicking.

8:16 PM

→ 8 messages moved to Chimney

8:38 PM

love preparing to be downvoted to oblivion :)

how are all your days going

Two years ago we discussed adding pronouns to profiles but (at that time) we were cautioned not to by our legal department out of concern that we would be collecting data that could be scraped by others and used nefariously.

We weren't even allowed to encourage people to put their pronouns on their about me.

caird coinheringaahing

It's a well-intentioned feature request, and one that I'd like to support. But I can see it being abused to do the exact opposite of its intention all to easily

@cairdcoinheringaahing yes, i've addressed this at multiple points in the feature request

Many of the platforms that do collect this information are not particularly cautious about PII. We even dumped the table we used to have that held the contents of a birthday field. We just don't want to have personal information that we don't need to store about people.

@AudenYoung also to be clear, i understand there are objections to it, i'm mainly just worried about less well-intentioned objections.

caird coinheringaahing

8:44 PM

@AudenYoung I know. I don't think your suggested efforts would work

@Catija I understand that, but - you also currently have a location field which is certainly personal information, the field wouldn't be required, and people are already putting their pronouns in their bio in a way that honestly shares more personal information than if there was a pronoun field (for the tendencies i state in my proposal).

Sonic the Anonymous Hedgehog

@Catija I think you registered here after SE stopped using that field publicly - before 2015, user's ages were public.

@cairdcoinheringaahing could you elaborate on why you think this? i'd be happy to think about the objections/respond to them/propose alternatives.

Sonic the Anonymous Hedgehog

Of course, when the page was redesigned to not have the age be public anymore, the field became useless.

caird coinheringaahing

I go by he/she/they pronouns. Those are specific ones, if you used xe (e.g.), you'd be using a pronoun I'm not comfortable with. Your suggested options don't adequately cover me and my pronouns. Now, you can suggest expanding the list, but you'll always miss someone out. A free text form would be best, but also worst, as trolls would almost certainly use it to be transphobic

I don't see any way you can have both the inclusivity you're aiming for, without also opening yourself up to the trolling you want to avoid

@cairdcoinheringaahing (In case the implication wasn't clear, the emphasis on "specific" is to show that the "no preferred pronouns" option, or an option like "any pronoun is fine", don't work)

8:49 PM

@AudenYoung solicitation of the information generally means that more people will actually provide it... which means it's higher risk. If there's no field, people often don't think about including them. Heck, I only have mine there because of Glorfindel's userscript that shows pronouns on posts for people who have the script installed.

caird coinheringaahing

^ Same here

I'm not saying that we won't do it. It's been two years and we have a team focused on Trust & safety (that I'm not on) so I hav no clue what they think about this or whether we want to change things. But it's important to us to consider these things.

9:01 PM

@cairdcoinheringaahing or it could be made so you can select multiple options. i also included an option to 'ask for pronouns' for this reason.

@cairdcoinheringaahing right, that is why my last option is for 'other'/'please ask'. i do think your situation would be covered by the ability to select multiple options though.

@cairdcoinheringaahing i'd also say that more inclusivity, even if it's not as much as would be optimal is a step forward.

@Catija yes, and there's a field for location/personal website/github/etc already. i'm not sure i follow the objection here.

(just a general note that I added the idea of selecting multiple pronoun sets to the overall proposal; thank you for the idea @cairdcoinheringaahing)

Location isn't the same in my mind. An entire city or state or country of people isn't as important or defining as pronouns

1 hour later…

10:17 PM

@Catija and personal websites aren't defining?

i do understand to some extent what you're getting at, and the privacy issue is i think a legitimate counterargument to the proposal, but i'm not sure it's as extreme as you're making it out to be.

unrelatedly, i sure am tired of people in the comments saying 'this isn't helpful for me, so therefore this shouldn't be a thing' - such a strange argument.

10:32 PM

only on MSE I have this issue: normally I type whatever post I'm typing on the website, but on MSE specifically, there is a performance issue, and I'm not using by any means an old device, e.g.: if I hit Enter two times, the whole thing freezes and the up/down arrow keys don't move the cursor, is it something known? if not, any pointers before I write a bug report? (for MSE I resorted to typing in a text editor then copy paste when I'm done, but still moving cursor is annoying when 1/2

adding links. 2/2

using latest FF on Win10

11:09 PM

-3

Q: Don't forget to update your name on the network profile if desired

If you've changed your name for any reason, do not forget to update it manually on the network profile (if it's public) if that's desired. The info there does not automatically update, and needs to be manually updated: From your profile: and then from network profile:

discussion display-names network-profile tips

I saw the tips tag, and this tip did help someone, what have I done wrong for -3 right away?

-3 = something super wrong I did, at least let me know what it was is all I ask

caird coinheringaahing

Is it really on topic for MSE?

there is a tips tag!

what is it for?

caird coinheringaahing

I'm not as familiar with the on-topic culture here as I'd like, but it seems to me as though it isn't a question about MSE. Maybe if it was framed as "How do I update my username?" and then the tip was as an answer

I'm familiar with tags, and tags are always about what's in question body, even if it's not a question, e.g. a communication on a local meta

but thanks though, good to know that and I left a comment asking:

Have I misused the tips tag? — ymb1 1 min ago

caird coinheringaahing

(also, as an aside, I don't think tips should be a tag, but that's a discussion for another day)

11:14 PM

if a mod answers I did, I'll delete this tip

caird coinheringaahing

Ironically, this is unanswered

ironically indeed :)

now -4 and no close votes ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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