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12:09 AM
there are a lot of Qs about story/book identification, seems that some should be closed as dupes of each others. The open ones are:
indirectly by me :) since I pointed Tsundoku at it
Anyways, not all of them can have the same dupe target as the closed one, because said dupe target is about fictional stories
But this one is about nonfiction, that should probably cover the rest
I'm asking here for a sanity check before flagging, because 7 old Qs is a lot
 
12:37 AM
@bobble I wouldn't really bother too much about dupe closing those
 
Some of 'em, e.g. meta.stackexchange.com/q/270279 , don't have answers pointing to Lit. Would dupe-closing those be more okay?
 
Just leave the site ID posts alone for now
I realise MSE attracts a certain sort but it isn't necessary to have everything perfectly organised and dupe closed
2
 
1:21 AM
 
2:15 AM
@JourneymanGeek relatedly, not every related question is a duplicate. I've too often seen people try to close merely related questions as duplicates (feature requests vs. discussions, bugs in a feature vs. feature requests to change how said feature works in a different way...).
 
yup
I've been of the opinion for a while that we're a little bit too hasty about that
But eh, lots of folks disagree :D
 
I think part of the problem here is that you can't cast a "don't close" vote to vote against a close vote, in the sense that an upvote votes against a downvote. You can only vote "Leave open" to kill the CV review, but that doesn't stop votes from being cast on the post itself, at which point you have to go through the reopen process...
That part's not MSE-specific, of course.
So you get a bit of a bias toward closing, I think, since the questions fall off the radar a bit after closing.
 
Well - but its also true off the front page, or 'worse' from folks looking for stuff to close
 
 
3 hours later…
5:46 AM
@Mithical group of few women, usually they're outside. Proved very "useful" during COVID, they were meeting almost as usual, while gyms were mostly closed.
@MikeG oh that's nice. Enjoy some coffee while you're here then. (Now you're not, so no point giving, but next time I'll keep in mind. If you agree. ;))
@user1271772 "the Glorfindel question" lol... :D
@Luuklag nah, I'm not one of those who fight ban with ban aka fire with fire. Well, I might, but try not to if possible. If something is tasty I'll buy/eat it no matter what those making it think of me or my country. And deal with the politics in other platforms, for me none currently exists but might start using Twitter one day for this, if I'll get too bored. ;)
@M.A.R. heh, our media made it look like it's the worst year ever. Typical, right? Well glad you're fine! :)
 
 
1 hour later…
7:11 AM
(Twitter getting downvotes)
 
@JourneymanGeek yeah, also read article saying that adding "dislike" to Facebook would be a good feature.
 
:D
Sure, why not?
 
The TL;DR of it was "This way people will express disagreement with a dislike button instead of with offensive comments".
Think some celebrity said it.
 
So someone who never got disapproval.
 
7:13 AM
They have never seen a proper meta dumpster fire :D
 
Exactly.
Let me find it....
I like him, but he really has no idea what he talks about in this case.
 
Well no
 
Dislike in Facebook will lead to thousands of suicides, and I wish I'll be wrong.
 
But people who actually "get" how these things work are rare
People who can talk about it are rarer
 
@JourneymanGeek finally!
 
7:15 AM
lol
 
Someone already on the border posting something very important to them, getting like 10 dislikes and no likes..... this might just push them over the edge. Without dislikes, they just know nobody listens, which is bad but still tolerable.
 
(Ana was pretty good at it)
@ShadowWizardWearingMaskV2 But a good chunk of those people would also be vocally negative as much as possible
 
@JourneymanGeek which? Those clicking dislike?
 
@ShadowWizardWearingMaskV2 Don't underestimate.... negative attention is attention too, to a surprising lot of people.
 
7:17 AM
@Tinkeringbell maybe with feedback, but just seeing "10 dislikes" in shining red? Doubt it.
 
@ShadowWizardWearingMaskV2 and most of those dislikers will want to have their say over why the other person is wrong
 
@JourneymanGeek again, I don't think so.
 
Humans have egos :D
 
@ShadowWizardWearingMaskV2 I've seen it enough on here... people just doing stuff to get attention, no matter how many downvotes it would get them.
 
Or in a sense the "plain" downvote only works cause its ingrained into our culture
 
7:20 AM
Again, negative attention is attention too, to a surprising lot of people.
 
It's people who don't really care or give much attention, they see something they don't understand and ignore it - these days. With dislike, they'll also have way to express their disapproval of such things.
 
@ShadowWizardWearingMaskV2 So? In real life, people can express their disapproval too, why should the internet be different?
 
In my last days on Facebook, I posted some serious political views, and got maybe 1 Like. I didn't care and that's not what led me out, but I'm pretty sure that with dislike, I'd get a bunch as well, without feedback. Which would already make me feel bad.
 
@ShadowWizardWearingMaskV2 Facebook already has the angry emoticon to react with, IIRC.
 
@Tinkeringbell nah, very different.
 
7:23 AM
@ShadowWizardWearingMaskV2 I mean, sure... a thumbs down conveys 'disapproval' a bit better than an angry emoticon... but I for sure just used the angry one.
Posting off-topic sob-stories in one of the crochet groups I was in was sure to get your post flooded with them.
Sadly, again... these people seemed to thrive on the negative attention, and seek out more of it XD
 
@Tinkeringbell not talking about them, talking about people posting on their own wall.
 
@ShadowWizardWearingMaskV2 Well your own wall is your own echo-chamber, essentially. If you don't like what people do on your wall, there's tools to stop them.
 
@Tinkeringbell looks like we don't understand each other today, lol.
I mean someone posting on their wall, and the post gets dislikes. That is all.
 
@ShadowWizardWearingMaskV2 So y'all downvoting each other?
 
o/
 
7:35 AM
@ShadowWizardWearingMaskV2 what is the difference between a downvote and a dislike here?
 
@JourneymanGeek no difference, don't think I said there is?
 
@ShadowWizardWearingMaskV2 Yes. And if you don't like getting dislikes from the people you're friends with, that can see your wall... there's an excellent solution for that: Remove their access to your wall.
Just like you kick out 'friends' that start throwing around the furniture in real life.
 
oh were talking about people killing themselves, how fun :/
 
@Tinkeringbell sure, and might as well just delete the Facebook profile and stop sharing what you think.
 
@ShadowWizardWearingMaskV2 Well, why not? :P Facebook is evil anyways.
 
7:36 AM
@Luuklag Well and/or downvotes/👎 and their effect on people
 
@Luuklag indirectly, yeah, but even if not killing themselves just feeling badly due to downvotes dislikes. ;)
 
@ShadowWizardWearingMaskV2 also - well
 
Anyways, if you share what you think, people should be able to disagree with it as easily as they can agree with it.
 
its generally an angglomeration of factors
or whatever the right word is
 
Yeah, you can't contribute it all to one thing
 
7:37 AM
Of course
 
But the thing with downvotes/dislikes is, is that it's generally easier to throw those around then to write a (snarky) comment.
 
@JourneymanGeek conglomeration, I think. Or accumulation :)
 
as you are less "exposed" in doing so
 
@Tinkeringbell Well, both! Maybe one!
@Luuklag and less confrontational in a sense
 
@Luuklag But if the software offers likes, which are easier to throw around than to write a comment... the software should also offer dislikes, which are easier to throw around than to write a comment. All things in balance.
 
7:42 AM
@Tinkeringbell If they wan't the place to become a toxic sespool, then yes.
 
@Luuklag It's way more toxic if there's no balance between the ease of agreement vs. disagreement, then you get a positively toxic place. If disagreeing is easier than agreeing, you get a negatively toxic place.
 
Chat has no downvotes, or anti-star feature, so the chat is positively toxic place? ;)
 
@ShadowWizardWearingMaskV2 Essentially, yes.
 
(stars are like upvotes)
@Tinkeringbell heh, so lucky I have a mask. :D
 
It seems a bit flimsy to keep out anything toxic though XD
 
7:49 AM
@JNat hello, any backlog you're working on? ;)
 
@ShadowWizardWearingMaskV2 I think he is waiting 6-8 weeks for his big red nuke-button
probably someone needs to give Yaakov a kick to build that ;)
 
@Luuklag lol
@Luuklag nah, I made it myself already.
Enjoy! :P
 
haha next time I'll tag you for a cross site spammer @sha :)
 
@JNat @sha Cross site spammer: stackexchange.com/users/17635035/antier-solutions?tab=accounts (might have posted this one before, name sounds familiar)
@JNat @sha cross site spammer: stackexchange.com/users/22166288/essay-v?tab=accounts CC @journey one for you as well
 
8:10 AM
@Mithical I've never quite forgiven SE for the crap they pulled on monica and shog, so they could start there if they're serious
 
@magisch you wouldn't be the first to post an answer about that ;)
 
I commented on that answer also and upvoted it
Ultimately that was the little bit that pushed me to seek greener pastures and prevents me from really coming back
I can't really work in favor of a company that pulls stuff like that and then doesn't rectify it
I haven't forgotten how they tried to make shog sign an NDA and we had to crowd fund his severance.
I haven't forgotten how we had to crowdfund Monica being able to sue SE to retract their obvious slander
 
@magisch How are those greener pastures? Still keeping you busy?
 
8:15 AM
I'm not currently a CM anymore there due to time constraints and personal events, but I will return to the role as soon as i'm able again
and I had a lot of fun and fulfilling work for over a year
 
Sound good! :D
 
Depending on how things shake out I'll probably go back in september or october
 
Fingers crossed then :)
 
Are those greener pastures the same as monica's pastures?
 
nah
entirely different
 
8:17 AM
@Luuklag The internet is much bigger than those two pastures :P
 
tink knows where i've been hanging out
 
Do I? ... I must admit I probably forgot then. I'll go dig through some memories.
 
either way I found someplace where I can apply my interests and make a positive difference
 
@magisch found you!
 
hah
on a serious note i just couldn't justify continuing here
 
8:19 AM
@magisch And that's why I love the internet: It has so many places there's a spot for everyone :)
And if there's not a spot yet, you can just make another!
 
I liked both shog and monica a lot and what they did to them was egregious enough that I lost my motivation to continue entirely
 
@ShadowWizardWearingMaskV2 Tink is there too! chat.meta.stackexchange.com/transcript/message/8947186#8947186
 
@magisch this place is independent from SE itself in many ways, can't see reason to stay away but hey that's your call and I respect it. :)
 
@Luuklag I wouldn't mind... to be honest, the place does look pretty :)
 
yesterday, by Luuklag
user image
 
8:23 AM
@Tinkeringbell I noticed you have a different parrot
 
@magisch Yeah. Derpy couldn't stand the phallic shape of the previous one :P
 
Derpy's still around?
 
Under a different name, yeah. They're more 'back' than 'still around' though, I guess.
@SPArcheon we're gossiping about you ;)
 
@Tinkeringbell wait, what? Wasn't it the one with glasses I gave you? It wasn't phallic...
 
@magisch they do seem to be making a serious attempt to rebuild the CM team
 
8:26 AM
@Tinkeringbell nah, "still around" is accurate. They never really left. ;)
 
I can understand the need to move past but personally a prequisite for wanting to do anything that helps SE again would be them actively repairing the damage they've done to shog and monica
 
@ShadowWizardWearingMaskV2 In the sense that we pay little heed to the powers that be? :D
 
@ShadowWizardWearingMaskV2 They were out of the Tavern for quite a while :)
 
@magisch that won't happen.
 
@magisch Shog still dispenses sagely advice, and moved to a mountaintop somewhere
 
8:26 AM
I'm not being petty that's just an issue of principles to me. I don't care for the couple hundred bucks either, I consider them well spent, but I really don't support bullies.
 
@Tinkeringbell surely still monitored it from a safe distance. ;)
@magisch you should really talk with Yaakov somehow, in private, he was able to explain to me what happened in a way that changed my opinion.
 
Everyone has lines they won't cross, this is mine. I'm not judging anyone who stays or doesn't think it's that big of a deal
 
@magisch heh
I've thought a few times about leaving, and heaven knows SE (the company) has a lot of rotting garbage in its back room. It is a big deal
 
@magisch but you did stay here for a long while after the big drama, what changed?
 
but at some point, its either "we gotta get them to do better" or realise its a shitty relationship, and just walk out completely.
 
8:30 AM
@ShadowWizardWearingMaskV2 It definitely was.
But I can't find the image proving it at the moment.
 
@Tinkeringbell the one I gave you?? Let me check it again...
 
So - if SE can't hire me cause of timezones, least for now, I can keep reminding them that they promised to hire mods and folks in community as CMs until they keep that promise
 
@ShadowWizardWearingMaskV2 I found another community that valued me for me, and I was able to make decisions on my own to avoid similar pitfalls. I realize it's different when you have a profit motive, but after having a taste of what good leadership in a volunteer project looks like I realized that I'd been ignoring entirely too much I was not okay with
 
(Still waiting on that FWIW)
 
@Tinkeringbell To be fair, despite your treats of switching back... it seemed like you weren't very fond of that detail either :P
 
8:33 AM
@magisch heh, those places are rare :(
 
You said that "I can't unsee it after someone made me notice" and it didn't seem you was very happy with that ^_^
 
And now, well, at the other place, the leadership listens to arguments, broadly discusses with people, we get reasonings for every decision, we get to participate in making the decisions, our arguments are always heard and adressed and there is absolutely no bullying or crap like that
I like that I have a hand in making sure of that myself
I don't think I can ever go back to being anxious about how arcane outside leadership doesn't talk to any of us before deciding things and worrying what they're gonna mess up for no reason next.
 
@magisch FWIW, I haven't had 'major' meta anxiety in a while :D
Minor, sure
 
@SPArcheon Eh, I'm just too lazy.
 
One more reason
 
8:36 AM
@ShadowWizardWearingMaskV2 Here's a similar image to what my brother sent me.
I recreated it, especially for you.
 
Some of the people responsible for the 2019/2020 crapstorm are still employed at SE and there is nothing - and I do mean nothing whatsoever - that would convince me that's not a major downside to ever returning here
 
@magisch ... uh
actually almost all of them are gone
I think all of them are gone?
 
I don't think that's something you can recover from at a job.
 
Huh! Found the original!
Nov 19 '18 at 13:33, by Shadow Wizard
user image
@Tinkeringbell well you can draw such thing anywhere.... ;)
 
@Tinkeringbell if they're that far apart... one might want to see a doctor.
 
8:39 AM
@magisch fair enough.
 
@JourneymanGeek :P I know ;) But you can't really unsee it once you saw it, especially around the head.
 
@Tinkeringbell I actually think the eyebrows make it
 
In any case, the other place has never mistreated me, management never took a shit on my free time I put into it, and it's been more fulfilling then participating in SE. They've earned my loyalty, and once I have enough free time to participate again, i'll go back there.
 
@Tinkeringbell almost every bald head can be seen as phallic. ;)
 
@magisch which is fine
@ShadowWizardWearingMaskV2 mine isn't!
 
8:40 AM
@ShadowWizardWearingMaskV2 This is a parrot though, and it doesn't look bald to me :P
 
@JourneymanGeek show! ;)
 
@ShadowWizardWearingMaskV2 naw
 
I am an international man of misery, I mean mystery
 
@magisch In the meanwhile, it's nice to have you here in chat again ;)
For a bit.
 
8:44 AM
@JourneymanGeek OK, found random bald man then.
 
I feel that disproves your point :D
 
Yeah, same.
 
9:10 AM
@ShadowWizardWearingMaskV2 and those were the Wizzard last words.
 
@SPArcheon is this an attack of the Hebrew letter ×›?
 
9:49 AM
 
@Luuklag got 2 of 3 :D
 
@JourneymanGeek ah well, now JNat has no cross site left
 
10:07 AM
@Luuklag what am I supposed to build?
 
A big red nuke all cross-site spam profiles button for JNat
 
10:24 AM
@Luuklag red? or orange?
 
orange is just a lighter shade of red ;)
 
@Tinkeringbell and white is just really really really pale orange?
 
@Luuklag Ehh, I don't think that's true :P really light shades of red are often more associated with a pale pink then orange...
@JourneymanGeek white isn't a color at all ;)
 
@Tinkeringbell And black is really well concealed orange?
@Tinkeringbell But orange is!
 
@JourneymanGeek Oh. OMG
Popcorn ensues
 
10:32 AM
@M.A.R. on the bright side, they don't need to go far to complain on twitter
 
@ShadowWizardWearingMaskV2 eek, should prolly get to it some time this week, yeah
 
@JourneymanGeek Yeah exactly. IMO Tweets will never stop being abrupt, rash and condescending. This just gives an easy and official way for attention vampires to designate their tweet as 'controversial'
Oh man the fun we would have had if there were downvotes during Trump
He probably would have complained why he's not getting upvotes
Missed opportunity shakes head
 
@M.A.R. I'm pretty certain there will be folks who would do that in future
 
@JourneymanGeek Certain people will always be more successful at being pathetic than others
-- Albert Confucius
 
10:48 AM
I thought it was the chinese philosopher "Shih Tzu"
 
@JourneymanGeek I thought that was a dog ;)
 
whooosh
:D
 
11:14 AM
Hey Yaakov, long time no see
(no ping because staff don't like to be pinged unless it's important)
 
@Ya
Funny, those are first two letters of my own name as well. :D
 
@ShadowWizardWearingMaskV2 Not the first two letters of half of israel ;)
 
@Luuklag hehe, yeah... Yael too. Yagel. Yanis isn't Israeli, but common too. And lots more.... :P
First three is different story, not many start with "Yah". :P
 
@ShadowWizardWearingMaskV2 not many hebrew names there
 
@Luuklag that's true, but my own is there. proud
;)
 
11:27 AM
@ShadowWizardWearingMaskV2 Yaholloh
 
First four names are used in Israel.
The rest.... not really. :)
 
Hi. I just finished writing a little Python script to help with making Markdown tables (especially on the phone). I used an earlier version to make the table here: physics.stackexchange.com/a/652569/123208 Anyone want to test it & give me feedback? You can run it from your browser. (The script runs on the SageMathCell server).
4
I put the script link & instructions in the Sandbox. chat.meta.stackexchange.com/transcript/message/8949902#8949902
 
11:46 AM
Thanks, mystery star person. :)
 
@JourneymanGeek bless you
 
Good thing he's wearing a mask...
 
12:26 PM
Kind of amusing seeing a HNQ asked and answered by SE staff :)
 
@PM2Ring Consider posting on Stack Apps: stackapps.com under the apps tag. (Do I need to disclose I have diamond affiliations with that site?) I guess that guarantees better findability then some vague chatroom message ... just saying.
 
@g3rv4 hello! You started working for SE again? ;)
 
@ShadowWizardWearingMaskV2 o/ nope, August 9th is my first day
 
Or are you waiting for the coffee? ;)
@g3rv4 ohh still pretty far. :/
 
yeah, I gave a really long notice
 
12:29 PM
You're at least in vacation until then?
 
nope ;)
 
it's alright, I offered it
 
!!/give vacation to g3rv4
 
@ShadowWizardWearingMaskV2 No such command 'give'.
 
as I'm leading a team (and only been here for 4 months) I'm trying to do everything I can to make it a less crappy situation for $currentCompany
 
@g3rv4 hehe, fair.
 
@rene AHH SPAMMER! I MEAN FLOWER! ITS A BIT BLURRY
(I think it should be fine)
 
hey @g3rv4
long time no see
 
@magisch I'm lurking here pretty often :)
 
12:36 PM
By that I mean I haven't been here often
 
o/ welcome back then :)
 
@magisch so be here more often.... ;)
 
I'm surprised I still have RO
(that's what the cursive name was, right?`)
 
yes, you can still kick @sha from the room ....
 
don't think i'd do anything like that
I haven't been in here so long it's not my place to do that
I thought someone would have removed RO from me by now
 
12:40 PM
I still could, if you want to...
 
feel free
I can't find a button
 
The times it comes up is mostly when adding new Room Owners, as far as I can tell... and we didn't do that so :P
 
merci
 
There you go then :)
 
12:42 PM
@rene :D
expecting a kick
 
A dream come true. I'm on a roll today!
 
Annnnd heeeee's... gone!
 
More people having wishes/commands I should fullfill? I have.... 2 more minutes to kill XD
 
backs off slowly
You can have my last Rollo @Tinkeringbell ...
 
12:46 PM
@magisch YW. Just let us know if you want it back ;)
@rene Wow. That's a brand name I haven't heard for a long while XD
 
@rene huh? This one?
Doesn't look very tasty. :D
 
I'm assuming he used one 'l' to much, and is talking about Rolo, which is a kind of candy ;)
 
There is no public notice of a kick happening?
 
Rolo is een merk ronde chocolaatjes met een kern van karamel. Ze worden gemaakt door Nestlé, behalve in de Verenigde Staten, waar de rechten sinds 1969 gehouden worden door The Hershey Company. Vele jaren werd er in Nederlandstalige landen reclame voor gemaakt met de slogan: "Bedenk goed, wat je met je laatste Rolo doet." Rolo werd het eerst gemaakt door Mackintosh's in 1937. Er zijn tegenwoordig vele varianten van de Rolo, zoals Rolo-koekjes, -ijs, -muffins, -verjaardagstaart, -toetjes, mini-Rolo's, extra grote Rolo's, Rolo-yoghurt, -milkshake en -paaseieren. Er is ook een versie met witte chocolade...
 
@Luuklag Nope. I think Room Owners and mods get to see a banner (and maybe a ping sound?), but otherwise, not.
 
Shhh.
Otherwise I'll start getting hungry too!
 
@Tinkeringbell yep, banner and ping, for all diamonds, so I assume you woke up all SE devs
 
@Luuklag nah, what for? Just extra drama. ;)
 
12:50 PM
I once impulse-bought a big bag of Rolos. They lasted... A very long time. I got somewhat sick of them 20% of the way through the bag, and basically started giving them away at a point.
 
@rene does it say who kicked?
@rene LOL
 
@rene and an annotation on your profile? xD
 
@Spevacus that's sad... there's a term "big eyes" in my language, for that.... :D
 
@Luuklag No annotations for a single kick... maybe for the three within 24 hours though?
 
@ShadowWizardWearingMaskV2 We use the phrase "(Their) eyes were bigger than their stomach."
 
12:51 PM
@rene That's okay. :D
 
@ShadowWizardWearingMaskV2 yes, with a video stream and photo moment of both the kicker and kickee, one showing joy, the other amazement. SE chat is pretty awesome in that regard ...
2
 
@Luuklag I used to be so convinced I had annotations on SO
because I annoyed the mods so much
but apparently they don't annotate to say "that guy is kind of an ass" :D
 
@Spevacus yeah that's more accurate. ;)
@Tinkeringbell getting ready to be test subject
;)
 
@ShadowWizardWearingMaskV2 Nah, can't do that :)
won't do that too.
 
No kicks on demand?
 
12:57 PM
Nope, no more.
 
damn, the last time someone kicked me was shog when he suspended me from chat for 2 weeks
It was in 2015
 
Spam account for a resident mod to shred, should they feel so inclined: meta.stackexchange.com/users/1039096/dawn-gryder
 
come to think of it a large part of my social skills and community skills are a product of reading posts by shog
 
@Spevacus shredded :)
 
<3
 
12:58 PM
i've even stolen a lot of the community management principles he talks about time to time whole cloth
 
@Tinkeringbell Time for one more? chat.meta.stackexchange.com/users/152859 ;)
 
@Spevacus No, sorry... I really need to get back to work now ;)
 
The long posts about perceptions and implementing changes have worked wonders in smoothing things over
 
Aw. Maybe later. :)
 
Maybe :)
 
12:59 PM
@Tinkeringbell :(
 
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