Tavern on the Meta - 2021-05-14

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4:43 AM

stackoverflow.blog/2021/05/14/…

@Feeds Why is it so hard to get Oneboxed?

2 hours later…

6:20 AM

@Catija what I'm really comfortable with is a serif font, nothing too fancy, just so the kerning isn't annoying, and I've found that I don't mind "wide" fonts as much as I thought I would. I set the font to be sort of semi-bold. Big line widths are also a big no. This one is really thin, everything ends up swimming for me, and I can't concentrate at all. Just one data point though (sorry, can't be bothered with the right typography mumbo jumbo after a sleepless night)

Journeyman Geek

6:47 AM

@M.A.R. keming

→ 4 messages moved to Chimney

2 hours later…

Sonic the Anonymous Hedgehog

8:44 AM

Is this type of answer considered abusive? meta.stackexchange.com/a/364430/377214

or merely NAA?

I just flagged NAA, downvoted and delete voted

who shall we ping for the 3rd delete vote? @JourneymanGeek, @rene, @Tinkeringbell ?

Apparently, Geek.

yup ;)

And I've got my 1 rep back :) Yay!

@ShadowTheVaccinatedWizard just seen this familiar picture on the Dutch news as well: nos.nl/artikel/…

user image

And they claim it to be a tank

Journeyman Geek

It has tracks and barrel gun go BOOOM?

@JourneymanGeek yeah thats about it

But using a Tank to fight stationary ground targets is a bit stupid IMHO

Shows that a lot of journalist know things about writing, not about the things they write about

Journeyman Geek

8:56 AM

eh

There's only 3 reasons someone would know something like that

You are/were playing modern or sci fi RPGs, are/were or gamer or are/were serving in some military

Or all three :D

Or just someone that remembers a lot of stupid stuff

Journeyman Geek

OI! I RESEMBLE THAT REMARK

But took more then 1 year to learn the periodic table of elements

Journeyman Geek

9:33 AM

@Luuklag Bobbitted.

Hm

I need a new mouse

@JourneymanGeek It's next to your soldering iron

Journeyman Geek

@Luuklag oh, I know where my current one is

Its... accidentally double clicking, occationally stops working until you bang it gently on the table and the side panel came off

Just need to go to the store + decide if I want the wired or wireless model of the mouse I have now

I'd go for wired any day

I hate those wireless things

their easier to lose, the connection is usually flacky at best imho

Journeyman Geek

Well I've had this wired one from 2015

Some of the keys are slightly 'loose' too

6 years seams a reasonable lifespan

Journeyman Geek

9:38 AM

lol

I think my old keyboard hit 10 and mostly still works

Yeah I also had a keyboard that lasted something like that, but after a year or so most of the letters were already worn off

mostly the wasd keys ;)

Journeyman Geek

Oh I don't think you can wear out the letters on light up mechanicals

though the texturing on most of the keys wore off, and there's a shiny patch on the spacebar

Oh

and when I bought it it was clicky

the keys went silent.

My letters were just printed on them. My keyboard from work is starting to go grimey, except for the middle of all the keys, that part is just shiny

Most noticably the E key

Journeyman Geek

lol

I like my fancy keyboards

And the cmd and shift button as well

Journeyman Geek

9:41 AM

also I can remove all the keyscaps and wash em :D

I think if I tried that on this apple keyboard I'll break it

It is bended though, but still works

Journeyman Geek

lol

Thats what you get from working from home, and ocasionally having to work in the office

You have to bring your own keyboard and mouse

Journeyman Geek

Oh, I dumped a spare keyboard in the office

I guess I put my bag down a little too hard one time

Journeyman Geek

9:44 AM

Actually, if I can fix it, the chinese keyboard I was fixing is probably going to be my office keyboard :D

Its like a low budget version of my drop

1 hour later…

11:08 AM

k

3rd delete vote, not about SE: meta.stackexchange.com/questions/364433/…

2 hours later…

12:52 PM

stackoverflow.blog/2021/05/14/…

@Feeds Open source onebox on Chat

1:11 PM

Who knew Ben Popper actually reads MSE.

Maybe he got info passed on to him

Could be

seeing it was his first post on MSE

@JourneymanGeek no u

Journeyman Geek

@Luuklag I'm fairly certain at this point that relevant feedback is passed on to folks if its on meta

Which is a good thing I guess :D

1:32 PM

@Luuklag This is a tank:

no u

user image

1:52 PM

@Rob artist rendering of tiangmeng? Or whatever it is spelled ;)

Journeyman Geek

Naw, don't think its Tiananmen

Ugh, I know the artist I think, polish dude, did giant mechs in fields

@JourneymanGeek well the image clearly reminds me. One tank and one female standing in front of it.

Journeyman Geek

ah its someone else

Poll: if you had to pick one beta site to be graduated what would you pick?

2:10 PM

As long as it isn't Sustainable Living I'm okay with any pick. I want someday to be able to make the joke that Sustainable Living wasn't feasible on the SE network ....

@Luuklag Mis-remembered:

Tank Man (also known as the Unknown Protester or Unknown Rebel) is the nickname of an unidentified Chinese man who stood in front of a column of tanks leaving Tiananmen Square on June 5, 1989, the day after the Chinese military had suppressed the Tiananmen Square protests. As the lead tank maneuvered to pass by the man, he repeatedly shifted his position in order to obstruct the tank's attempted path around him. The incident was filmed and shared to a worldwide audience. Internationally, it is considered one of the most iconic images of all time. Inside China, the image and the accompanying events...

🚽

user image

user image

No, not that tank man.

2:19 PM

Don't worry, JNat is here. He will defeat him, as usual.

@rene lol

Journeyman Geek

@rene i.stack.imgur.com/WqeWt.png 🤔

@JourneymanGeek yeah ... fun, isn't it?

2:39 PM

@Rob ah silly pronouns ;)

1 hour later…

3:44 PM

Does anybody here know how big is the SE staff’s backlog?

I imagine there's a staff member that might know

@EkadhSingh a couple of years back Shog9 showed a screenshot of their internal ticket system. It had six thousands items on it. I doubt it is much less now.

I was expecting one or two hundred, but wow. Six thousand? No wonder they’re hiring new people

i mean

they did the opposite of that between then and now

True

i meant hiring as in hiring CMs recently

4:00 PM

I don't quite get the idea behind having CM's that don't interact with the community outside of holidays

Maybe they’re there for clearing the backlog?

@EkadhSingh Uh, on every project I have done 200 items is nothing. It is so easy to write an FR or bug report, takes minutes ...

But fixing bugs would be difficult (for a good portion of them anyways)

and other types of backlog would also be difficult

such as giving graduated sites a theme

Journeyman Geek

4:16 PM

Themes are design folks

Oh

my bad

everything takes time and days have a limited amount of hours.

Journeyman Geek

CM's very much don't really do much design or dev work, outside liasing with the community for feedback, and pipelining things that's needed.

(some former CMs were devs - and it was useful buuut, I don't think they were directly involved )

Good to know

Maybe some government organization can afford to have so many people on the payroll that whenever a workitem pops-up you have someone available to assign it to. If you want to make money you better be a bit understaffed ...

4:22 PM

I would hope that at least the backlog on major things would be smaller

like the amount of graduated sites without a design is astronomical

I hope they have one backlog that gets prioritized every day.

Journeyman Geek

@EkadhSingh Assuming custom designs are a priority

I think right now, the focus seems to be getting stacks worked out

@JourneymanGeek In my (often incorrect) opinion, a site design matters a bit to the users of that particular site.

Journeyman Geek

A lot of the issues/backlogs are over years

@EkadhSingh Oh, it certainly does

@JourneymanGeek what do you mean by “stacks”? (Probably something obvious I don’t understand)

Journeyman Geek

4:25 PM

but at the moment, we're dealing with about half a decade of stagnation

@EkadhSingh stackoverflow.design and github.com/StackExchange/Stacks

Essentially its the system that SE's Q&A type products is built around

@JourneymanGeek I thought SE was only stagnated from 2019-2021? Was it also in a bad spot from 16-19?

Journeyman Geek

@EkadhSingh Oh, the problems are a lot older

@JourneymanGeek good to know👍🏽

@JourneymanGeek when did they start?

Journeyman Geek

2017 was one low meta.stackexchange.com/questions/303005/… but there were issues for the rest of the network earlier

Some of it is being addressed but there's a lot of it is still backlogged

Good to know

Journeyman Geek

4:32 PM

In theory at some point, they should have stacks good enough it mainly needs maintainance and they can probably have an easier time on graduated sites

especially with slower new site creation

More like no new site creation

Journeyman Geek

Don't expect anything spectacular like world building or anime

i doubt anything will get graduated for at least the next 2 years

Journeyman Geek

@EkadhSingh Area51's one of those things that's backlogged on updating :D

And a lot of 'old' site promotion mechanics they used to do are no longer a thing - like site swag

Also site requirements are sky high

(mostly only 10 questions per day)

Journeyman Geek

4:36 PM

@EkadhSingh I think that's based on experience

Even with 5-6 qpd you can still have a viable site

like politics SE

Journeyman Geek

Possibly

it gets a ton of traffic (so basically that means a ton of money for SE)

Journeyman Geek

@EkadhSingh depends on whether they run ads and how adblock goes

still, more traffic generally means more money

Journeyman Geek

4:38 PM

Or more costs

Also Politics has so many active users

Journeyman Geek

Very much the heart of the problem is folks looking at public Q&A and getting confused to where the revenue is...

@JourneymanGeek true I guess, but it is most likely at least somewhat possible that it makes money, right?

Journeyman Geek

without realising the other products have no value on their own without public Q&A

@EkadhSingh the money is indirect

Ok

Journeyman Geek

4:39 PM

That someone passionate about $site might be a teams user or SME for an organisation that uses teams or enterprise

Lets say you built a clone of SO Teams... What's your chances of selling it, as a standalone product, without a fairly well established name behind it?

Very low

Journeyman Geek

Yup

Well, I can say that politics SE gets a lot of traffic

Journeyman Geek

Its probably going to be... interesting... to moderate at this point of time

so more popularity for SO, and more popularity for teams, so more $

Politics?

our current moderators are pretty good

Journeyman Geek

4:43 PM

Oh, more that there's current events and all the attending drama

You mean isreal-Gaza? There hasn’t been too many bad questions about those topics

And the bad questions get shut down fast

Journeyman Geek

Shutting down bad questions is tiring

But seems pretty civil from the front page

@JourneymanGeek not with 1011 users with CV privelleges

not all of those are active

Journeyman Geek

Not all of those are active

but lots of people who can CV

Also lots of active close voters

I can tell you from experience that bad questions (normally) get closed pretty fast

2 hours later…

6:23 PM

@SPArcheon I'm just gonna imagine this guy's head is upside down and the red thing above his eyes is his mouth

@Rob That tank is . . . slightly large

Tanks!

6:53 PM

The largest tanks all suffer from the same impractibility: weight, thus speed / range limited. The largest tank built was cancelled after only two were made. The fastest tanks can go 3-6x faster. Such large tanks are prime targets due to their cost / speed / strategic value.

Modern tanks are a third the weight, 4x the speed, 5x the range, etc.

7:23 PM

This user: meta.stackexchange.com/users/999224/sourabh is posting an awfull lot of questions that all have a common source where their content is copied from....

7:34 PM

If I had a dollar every time I hit ctrl+enter in a post I'm editing on MSE and it didn't submit my edit but instead added a new line that I couldn't backspace, I would enjoy the experience much more.

How awfull, is that already reported in the new editor bug?

@Luuklag Yes

Never got a staff response though, considering writing up an independent post because my muscle memory for this shortcut has utterly failed to break

Especially because the shortcut is extremely common in Google applications and so I use it all the time

You could also check on Github if it is reported there, and if not make a bug yourself there

Hmmm, good idea. I hadn't thought of that.

7:59 PM

@RyanM your also being affected by random downvotes today?

@Luuklag Heh, I saw yours, too! Every answer on that question got one. Someone doesn't like grammar corrections.

@RyanM You could also purchase The Key™ and replace the keycaps; permitting you to do both.

:D

@RyanM And also here, and one for Ben's answer as well

11

Q: Are the SpaceX related blogs (software-in-space), blogs or advertorials?

Recently several blogs tagged software-in-space have appeared. They very much read like one big advertisement, with some information sprinkled through. This reminded me more of advertorials then blogs. Especially with the marketing lines at the end of every blog in this series: If you want to le...

discussion support advertising blog

Weird. Especially Ben's answer...it's a perfect answer.

8:05 PM

If Ben gets one more upvote he will have network flair xD

Afraid it can't be me, as I've already upvoted it just now :-p

Hmm, but he already has the association bonus...how?

Long live the Tavern!

@RyanM I'd guess... SO Teams...

@MetaAndrewT. haha, that's an amazing bug...

You're probably right.

7

A: why is my function only returning one element instead of two?

Following the suggestion from Karan Singh in the comments, I tried this code and it worked. I've made this a community wiki to reflect that. I'll do my best to explain why I think it works. So, in this function, numberOfitems can vary depending on what you want you want to call from your array. T...

Has a lot of upvotes, and some downvotes

So at some point he probably passed 200

8:12 PM

Nope, made community wiki at somewhere between +8/-5 and +10/-7. Good guess, though.

also, he already got assoc bonus on Jan 2020, ~9 months before the answer was posted :X

must be a hidden community then

because SO is his oldest account on his network profile

As a mod, I don't see any hidden communities on the network profile

Nope, hidden communities are leaky AF. There are easy ways to see them if the person has any activity there.

It's gotta be the Teams bug Andrew mentioned

and apparently mods can just see them all, TIL :-p

@RyanM how?

Is there any way to actually hide them?

8:17 PM

activity tab on the network profile, and no, none that I'm aware of other than actually using separate accounts

also SEDE can do it, too, but the query is tricky to write and I haven't attempted it. But the data's there.

Where in the activity tab is it?

I suppose I should say "...if they have any activity there and not a lot of more recent activity elsewhere," because you can't actually currently use that trick on me due to me having a lot of recent Stack Overflow activity :-p

You could check out this user:

stackexchange.com/users/6623302/snow?tab=activity

They have 16 hidden communities, so if you cross their activity, with the 16 communites that arent hidden on their list of communities

Actually the third entry in their activities is from a hidden community

Oh

So if I’m not active in a hidden community I’m safe from this trick?

@EkadhSingh go to the second page of the activity tab of your network profile. Note that you have 3 comments on MSE despite having hidden that community. Also note that I was able to find your network profile despite it not being linked from your MSE profile page :-)

8:24 PM

Good to know

is there a bug report about this?

You're safe from the activity page trick if you're not active, yeah. You're not safe from SEDE tricks or from someone searching the profile name if it's the same across profiles.

probably multiple

Not a bug: Hiding a community means other users will not see it in your Communities list or Top Network Posts. It does not, however, mean your activity is private.

Good to know

@RyanM yeah I just searched myself up and my hidden communities show up :(

In my case, I've hidden most of my communities because I have dozens of profiles for voting and flagging spam/abuse, but I've never actually written posts in most of them. I've unhidden every one where I've actually written any posts.

But I occasionally do comment or suggest edits from those profiles, so I do have a very small amount of rep in a few hidden communities.

Though as I say that I realize that's not actually true. I once answered a question on Politics Meta. But I've never posted on Politics, so that profile is still hidden.

(and before someone says "but Ryan, didn't you just the other day say you had a deleted +8 answer there?", I posted that answer on Law and it was migrated :-p)

8:34 PM

hahaha

I can't be bother to hide my profiles which I made because of smokey

The clutter was annoying me ^^;

1 hour later…

forest distrusts StackExchange

10:03 PM

@JourneymanGeek Thanks for the suggestion for using the contact link!

> We do not perform automatic merges of chat profiles because the process is not optimized. We've completed that merge for you and your two chat profiles should be combined now.

Nice!

10:22 PM

[One hill over, a competing astrophotographer does a backflip over a commercial airliner while throwing a tray of plastic space stations into the air, through which a falcon swoops to 'grab' the real one.]

10:54 PM

@Feeds Idea stolen from: joshuacripps.com/2020/05/how-to-photograph-a-solar-eclipse

user image

Journeyman Geek

11:45 PM

@forestdistrustsStackExchange no problem. It's better for 'messy' things like this.

Yeah, my cheeky comment about chat things getting routed to /dev/null was mostly intended to be about changes to chat. But it's great that they manually fix individual cases if asked :-)

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