Tavern on the Meta - 2021-04-15

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2:44 AM

As if these problems weren't NP-hard enough.

2 hours later…

4:37 AM

@Feeds explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/…

So the male who went to dinner with one female ended up going to a movie with two other females, missed a birthday with one of the recent movie goers, and wound up in a cabin with one female and three other guys.

2 hours later…

6:58 AM

→ 44 messages moved to Chimney

7:47 AM

I have a confusing response from gnat here: meta.stackexchange.com/a/234518 where he points to a post from 2014 stating that creating a new account to start anew is an option. The FAQ post says explicitly to not do that: meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/255583 one of them is right. Question is: which one?

8:01 AM

@rene I don't see anything in that 2014 post that specifically says using a new account to is a good way to handle being question banned... in fact, the fact that this other account was also limited seems to suggest the opposite?

8:11 AM

Yeah, that is my reasoning as well but if I get gnat commenting then I start having second thoughts.

Journeyman Geek

gnat is misunderstanding what it says

@Cupcake Yes, barring a Herculean effort. Once implemented, if you face the 'Sorry, we're not accepting questions' thing, then you just need to go somewhere else, or learn how to program before getting a job where you do programming. Some get off on the wrong foot, so we need to optimize for them better. The real vamps, well, just keep vamping, and they're not a problem we're interested in solving. — Tim Post Jul 1 '14 at 19:21

kinda is very clear about the intent of the block

Shadow The Vaccinated Wizard

8:39 AM

So, Israel is 73 years old. What to bring her as bday present? ;)

We celebrate by ordering burgers for the kids. :D

f

@ShadowTheVaccinatedWizard good!

Shadow The Vaccinated Wizard

@Luuklag k

@Luuklag ty

On that note, I laughed really hard the other day

Shadow The Vaccinated Wizard

@Luuklag ?

I was biking through town when there was a sign: Jerusalem closed starting 06-04

Shadow The Vaccinated Wizard

8:40 AM

@Luuklag LOL

turns out we have a street called Jerusalem, and it is under construction

Shadow The Vaccinated Wizard

yeah, figured as much. ;)

Talking about biking, two of my kids fell today from their bike and got injured. ;(

Luckily only legs, hurts a lot but pass quite fast.

Are they still learning to bike, or were they in an accident?

8:52 AM

They're kids :P

Probably both

Shadow The Vaccinated Wizard

9:30 AM

@Luuklag oldest (10 y/o) already learned and should know how to ride, but she's kind of, well, clumsy... son (8 y/o) just started to learn, was actually using scooter not actual bike, as he still need to get some actual lessons for bike. Usually he's fine and not clumsy, but he does take too many risks. :/

Youngest daughter (4 y/o) also rode, on a small scooter, and didn't fall.

I'm learning my daughter right now. But she isn't confident enough yet. So she quits peddeling every now and then. Or forgets that she actually needs to steer, and look where shes going

shes 4

Shadow The Vaccinated Wizard

@Luuklag nice, we don't try with our 4 y/o yet and she's fine with her scooter. Think the oldest started to learn when she was 6, then when she was 8 more lessons. Problem is, she's hardly practicing.

@ShadowTheVaccinatedWizard yeah same problem here.

@ShadowTheVaccinatedWizard yeah same problem here.

oh stupid time-out

Shadow The Vaccinated Wizard

9:56 AM

:/

2 hours later…

11:32 AM

@JNat cross site spammer: stackexchange.com/users/18647177/civil-jungle?tab=accounts

how long is the backlog right now @JNat, must be a coulpe of weeks ;)

@Luuklag Easy to check for yourself :P Just search the transcript for 'gone' ;)

Mar 31 at 15:57, by JNat

@Spevacus gone

Seems to have been the last one ;)

yeah, that should be a nice backlog ;)

about 15 what I can tell from the transcript

@JNat another one: stackexchange.com/users/21266128/dt-modern-tech?tab=accounts

12:16 PM

@JNat cross site spammer: stackexchange.com/users/18644396/sebine-murselova?tab=accounts

12:42 PM

argh stupid excel update broke my template

:( Work sucks ;)

Yup, my data validation no longer takes an indirect statement :/

Worked fine yesterday before updating excel...

Nope, it's even stranger. Excel automagically added $ signs to make the reference absolute. That is what broke it, at least so does the internet say.

O.o Excel took a lesson from the new Markdown editor here ;) If you switch modes, it escapes certain markdown XD

yeah, but it probably is the other way around, since excel already did this back in 2018 as far as I can tell.

answers.microsoft.com/nl-nl/msoffice/forum/all/…

Oh wow

1:42 PM

What is you guys' opinion on writing a reconsideration post regarding:

958

Q: Show all of my question/answers to me even if they are deleted

I would really like to see all of my questions and answers on the profile page, even if some of them were deleted, and I don't have enough rep to see them on the site. (Note that some questions are automatically deleted after 30 days or 1 year, and the author might be oblivious about what happene...

feature-request status-declined deleted-questions deleted-answers information-display

It was originally declined by Jeff in '10

2 hours later…

3:31 PM

@Luuklag Doesn't this work for you? meta.stackexchange.com/search?q=user%3Ame+deleted%3A1

Journeyman Geek

@terdon ._. I have 86 deleted posts

Sonic the Curiouser Hedgehog

@Luuklag It's already been written: meta.stackexchange.com/questions/360939/…

I did ask Shog in early 2018 as to why they still hadn't changed their decision then, and he responded that he still believed that doing so would lead to lots of whining. But, as the evidence shows, that hasn't happened.

1 hour later…

4:50 PM

@Luuklag I... honestly don't really see the point of the whole feature XD

So reconsideration would definitely get a -1 from me, I guess. Unless it came up with some very, very solid arguments besides "I'm curious". (And 'it's useful when I'm q-banned' doesn't count because posts that were deleted in the past 60 days are still shown to you, and you honestly have to make a very convincing case to convince me that a question you abonded months ago, that ended up deleted, can all of a sudden be improved to the point of undeletion).

I wonder...

...is there any way to make the "What's on-topic" help page more obvious to new users?

A lot more obvious?

Helping them find the right site for their question is good.

But it seems to me that there are a lot of off-topic questions being posted on Meta and on SO. In the case of MSE, more so than on-topic questions.

Before you ask, read this! Popups :P

I think there was a tiny sliver of site left that could be covered with it after all the cookie banners ;-)

2

@Tinkeringbell Get rid of those damn banners and replace it with something useful?

Journeyman Geek

37

Q: People get lost and crash into meta - maybe we need roadblocks for their safety

I used to think that Sonic the Anonymous Hedgehog's idea of a survey was a terrible idea - it didn't actually fix anything, and I suspect most folks asking off-topic questions here are drivebys. On the other hand, we end up closing a few questions a day from people wandering in lost, asking utte...

feature-request meta new-users off-topic

@JourneymanGeek I want to see applications, filed in triplicate, with motivation for posting and relevant experience on the network in general.

Journeyman Geek

5:07 PM

@Tinkeringbell ......so like my last 3 job applications to SE? 🤣

@Tinkeringbell Applications should be posted to Santa Claus, North Pole, Alaska :)

@JourneymanGeek No, you can skip the discriminatory questions about race and medical status ;)

@DavidPostill Ooh, good one. Then we can just handle batches of those requests once a year.

@JourneymanGeek OK, thanks. I'm annoyed, though, by the fact that it doesn't seem to be working.

5:43 PM

The banner is gone for now. Posting a response soon.

user image

It's temporary while we work on making it less annoying.

Hmm. What's the opposite of a confetti gif?

That reads like as if annoying is the goal

Sonic the Curiouser Hedgehog

5:58 PM

@Catija Sorry, which banner? About off-topic questions?

:/ no

Yep! No more banners for off-topic questions ;)

58

Q: I can't see anything - Teams banner and cookie toaster obscure my whole screen

There have been issues with the cookie box for a while, but this is ridiculous. It reminds me of late 2017 Stack Overflow, but this time it's network-wide. The banner must be scrolled past (or dismissed) on every page unless both first-party JavaScript and first-party cookies are enabled. If fi...

bug status-review design accessibility user-experience

@rene Heh. I think the goal is... to encourage sign-ups? And that's easier if you're actually reading it? I ... don't pretend to understand these things.

But the important part is that we were able to get changes put in place so that we could fix it.

I'm happy to pretend I'm a user and give early feedback to marketing people. You have my email ....

Response is out: meta.stackoverflow.com/a/406851/11171084 and meta.stackexchange.com/a/363287/622284

6:07 PM

That last paragraph... that's so going to backfire someday.

true

i mean, the plan is to reintroduce a teams ad at the same location next week

lol

I personally just didn't like the size.

I was more thinking of the irony of having that paragraph on a post that's referencing a similar situation happening in 2017... and it's really not the first time I see posts on MSE about banners that are not dismissable, or blocking important parts of the screen ....

@user400654 It's completely OK for a company to want to advertise their own products on their own site. It can be annoying at times but... we need to be able to do it and most users accept that and are OK with it. We do absolutely need to be careful about how intrusive it is.

6:12 PM

i don't disagree

What i find annoying is no matter how many times i block it, it still comes back. there's no normalization to how it is presented

i'm not and never will be a teams customer

So, we have a bigger problem - that relates to the cookies issue - that people who block third party cookies are being shown banners repeatedly - and sometimes those people aren't even doing it intentionally - for example, Safari just does it by default and may not even have a way to avoid it...

yeah, that's a frustrating one. not affecting me fortunately

well, not on SO anyway

we've had issues related to that here

1 hour later…

7:25 PM

@Catija That doesn't appear to be a problem to me, but an oversight in the design fase

7:35 PM

@Luuklag and testing phase - clearly not tested on safari ... which has somewhere about 19% market share according to StatCounter Global Stats - Browser, OS, Search Engine including Mobile Usage Share

@DavidPostill I think that it's something of the latest version(s), so if you had tested on an older version you might not have spotted it.

in the case of the cookie popup, it may have not been feasable to wait for a solution to that problem prior to launching it

it being a legal case and all

I'm also amazed that you thought of using third party cookies in the first place with using a cookie banner, as they are one of the least allowed cookies I think

In mobile Safari, it seems to work within the same browser session just fine... the issue I come across is that Safari considers most browser sessions opened through an app (Slack, Discord, SE app, etc) as a new session, so every time I visit the site through one of those, I often have to 1 - log in and 2 - re-decline the cookies.

Don't they all have their own inbuilt browsers yet? Like facebook, instagram, outlook etc.

that also annoys the hell out of me

7:38 PM

it works fine for me on chrome ios, can test safari

@Luuklag I don't know enough about the technology to be able to really answer that... It might be an interesting question to ask on MSE to get an understanding of how it works. I know the devs sometimes like to answer those.

if i can find it

ah, i see what you mean

@Catija Agreed, but only if I won't be working till something like midnight ;)

not necessarily safari itself, but a browser window that's part of another app, :p

it's not often that i go from discord to so

@Luuklag Well the SE testers should be testing the supported browsers which includes the last 2 stable versions.

7:40 PM

and, yea, cookie pops up every time

hit accept all, reload, it's gone, close/reopen, it's bak

Hey, I'm on a Mac, I should have safari

Let's pull that one up

@user400654 works fine for me

Didn't even bother to ask me on SE when I accepted on SO

Oh but it does when I go to MSE

so SE.com does not carry cookies?

i wouldn't expect it to

diff domain

no, its just that MSE has the cookies, but SE.com does not

@user400654 Well, it's a Safari window, in my case, anyway. Just opened within another app... if that's what you're saying, then we agree. D:

yeah that's the same issue from what i can tell

7:48 PM

Sounds like it, yeah.

i routinely copy out of discord's "browser" to paste into chrome

wish it had a convenient copy link action

@Catija isn't it some sort of private window? In the case that you also won't be logged in, when you normally are on that particular browser?

Yeah. It's... weird, though... if I log in once - say I log in to SE while in Safari within the SE app, the cookies within the app do ... carry over for a while. And after a while I'll have to log in again. So, say I'm in chat and I follow a link to a site, most of the time, I'll be logged in but occasionally I'll have to log in again.

So, I have to log into the Safari window in each different App I use and that sticks around for a few months before aging away.

i don't think i've had to login to the SE app in a long time

I have an invite to a discord server I haven't ever been able to accept because it's in an email or something and whenever I click through, I'm not logged into discord... but if I cared about that server more I probably would have done something about it.

@user400654 The app, no. I don't have to log into the app itself for the most part - it's the Safari window within the app that I have to log into - sorry, that was confusing.

7:53 PM

hmm... howdo you get a safari window within the app?

chat notifications in the inbox?

Usually clicking on a link to a post in chat.

So, chat in the App is already sort of Safari... so it takes me to the question in a Safari browser instead of in the app. So, for example, clicking through one of the SD alerts

hmm

when i click on an inbox notification to a chat message, it opens chrome for me, my default browser (surprising apple still allows that)

I know iOS will allow you to open into another app - for example, if you follow a link in email to Discord, you can manually give permission to open the Discord app or Nextdoor or whatever... so I guess the Chrome app is acting as that override?

It makes slightly more sense for the related app for something than a general browser. But... if you don't like Safari, it's a good thing, I guess.

well, there's a setting under "Safari" in the settings app that lets you choose the default browser app, but not all apps abide by it

i'm not sure exactly what discord does

whether the in-built browser is based on ios safari or chrome as i've chosen

gmail app lets you choose iirc

I'm sorta boring so I tend to just use the Apple apps for things that aren't GPS purposes.

8:03 PM

yeah, it has a "default apps" section

And weather.

I'm just glad they let you delete the default apps now.

Most of them, anyway... I think they still won't let you delete... a handful.

i still prefer to just hide them away, so they won't sneak back in to my main page

@Catija well yeah that is default behaviour I think. Every once in a while your cookies get cleared on SE. They just age away

I have most of them in a folder, yeah.

@Luuklag Not in Chrome, for me, anyway. I never have to log in on the site.

Sonic the Curiouser Hedgehog

Android gives you a greater window into app defaults and allows you to clear them out as you please

8:07 PM

i don't exactly recall why i refuse to use safari, but, meh, it's served me well

probably just a case of chrome has my stuff already

@Catija oh no, my memory failed me. The preferences on what site version to use do age away. If you want the mobile view, or the full-site

Damn my company is unhealthy AF

Its 10PM and got emails from at least 3 colleagues in the last 10 mins

It's e-mail :P Asynchronous, just ignore ;)

@Tinkeringbell Well, they're replys to my emails ;)

*replies :P You need bedtime :P

@Tinkeringbell no idea what you're talking about ;)

@Tinkeringbell I need to finish stuff so I can take a week off on the 23rd

8:13 PM

Ooh, nice! Yeah, the stress of finishing up is real :)

Going to be spending a week in a mobile home in Drenthe

and not planning on bringing my laptop

Sonic the Curiouser Hedgehog

Is it simply a sprint to the near home stretch, or a lot of things that need to be done?

@SonictheCuriouserHedgehog the latter unfortunately

It's been crazy busy the last few months

@Luuklag Nice! (the not bring a laptop part, the mobile home is meh :P)

And then I get scolded for not doing enough acquisition

@Tinkeringbell Well yeah, we're also saving up to buy a home sometime in the future, so were on a bit of a budget ;)

And there's five of us, so everything is expensive

8:16 PM

@user400654 I won't use it on my MBP, only in iOS

Sonic the Curiouser Hedgehog

@Luuklag Gonna guess also that a car to comfortably seat everyone would be very expensive as well

@Luuklag Hahaha... I fully understand! I grew up with vacations in mobile homes, same reasons ;) It's also why I've come to dislike the cramped spaces: 5 people in a single mobile home on a rainy day.... it goes south fast.

@SonictheCuriouserHedgehog well the car we have works for now. It has 3 more or less full backseats

3 child seats fit side by side

@Tinkeringbell true, I grew up in a family of 6, so nothing new under the sun for me ;)

Sonic the Curiouser Hedgehog

@Tinkeringbell I feel you. A couple dozen people crammed into a single vacation home in India...not fun either.

@Luuklag But they'll grow out of those seats at some point

@SonictheCuriouserHedgehog At which point, they'll take up less space for a few years ;)

8:19 PM

@Tinkeringbell true, more years then the car will live probably

Sonic the Curiouser Hedgehog

We still drive a 15-year-old car here

If you have a car that can fit three child seats, side by side... you can also fit in those children without car seats, at least pretty much until puberty hits and they become grown-up sized.

Even then, smallest can go in the middle :P

Sonic the Curiouser Hedgehog

My family tends to think of cars as long-term things that they'll keep for as long as possible, so they want to future-proof by getting a large car in anticipation of growth

@Tinkeringbell or the one with the smallest hips, as it is usually the narrowest seat

@Luuklag Yeah, that's why I changed shortest to smallest ;)

8:42 PM

@Tinkeringbell I guess you being a woman would have been lucky to have brothers ;)

As they generally tend to have smaller hips ;)

9:06 PM

🤔

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