Tavern on the Meta

Sonic the Curiouser Hedgehog

5:44 AM

@JourneymanGeek Spam account: meta.stackexchange.com/users/926419/chemzone-india

Journeyman Geek

An old modern indian Philosopher once said "Construction is for Destruction"

user1271772

@Rob That's a stack of 10,000 bills, each of them being $100 each, so that's $1 million :)

Sonic the Curiouser Hedgehog

6:14 AM

@JNat Cross-site spammer: stackexchange.com/users/20734280/abdul-fahad

Rob

6:50 AM

1/4 Baked Answer:

15

A: Why does my PC crash only when my cat is nearby?

It might be another thing the root cause of your problem, and the cat behavior AND the computer shutdown to be both the effect of this cause. Lucky you, the cat's sensitivity threshold is better, and you can anticipate when your computer will stop just seeing the cat's behavior who is acting in a...

Journeyman Geek

That's a slightly bizzare question TBF

Rob

@user1271772 It's actually a ~20 layer cake with one bill on top. Even so, there's one hundred bills to an inch; it appears to be ~3 inches, and certainly not 6". - Reference: quora.com/…

My footrest:

That's a million.

Journeyman Geek

@JNat Two more more spammers to your backlog :D stackexchange.com/users/17317818/julia-johnson stackexchange.com/users/16802641/6wresearch-market-intelligence

Tinkeringbell

@Luuklag Oh that's good to know... that means I'll have to spread the word through chat ;)

Journeyman Geek

7:06 AM

@Tinkeringbell links dropped in most places

:D

Tinkeringbell

For me that just means TAS ;) I've done my job for the day XD

Rob

🛎️

Welcome @Sho

rene

7:25 AM

→ 36 messages moved to Chimney

Shodipo Ayomide

7:45 AM

Thanks @Rob :)

Rob

Unfortunately while I had some time to chat a half hour ago, I'm back to work at the moment. There's likely a few people available, such as the Meta moderators, who'd be happy to chat. You picked a time when chat isn't very busy, so you won't get swamped with questions and greetings. --- Best wishes, on your first day.

Luuklag

Hi @ShodipoAyomide, welcome to the Tavern

Do you enjoy yourself sofar as an SE employee?

Mithical

17 hours ago, by Mithical

*waves* most of us don't bite. except @journeymangeek, he bites

Journeyman Geek

woof?

Mithical

I mean

Journeyman Geek

8:00 AM

Dec 3 '20 at 14:16, by Journeyman Geek

not posting on meta, joking about cyberpunk 2077 delays and .... really bad puns.

2 things then....

:D

Rob

0

A: How long does it take for a signal to travel between Earth, and Juno at Jupiter?

Minimum distance of Jupiter from Earth (space.com) $\approx588*10^6 \text{km}$ Maximum distance of Jupiter from Earth (space.com) $\approx968*10^6 \text{km}$ $c \approx 3.0*10^8 m/s$ Minimum time for signal to reach Earth: $$588*10^6 \text{km} * (1000m / 1\text{km}) * (1/c) * (1\text{min} / 6...

Tinkeringbell

8:15 AM

What's so special about that one in particular?

Shodipo Ayomide

8:45 AM

Thanks @Luuklag!
Definitely, there's a lot to go over but has been fun so far :)

DavidPostill

@ShodipoAyomide First thing should be for you to give yourself a profile picture (avatar) :)

Shodipo Ayomide

Hahaha! Definitely on the map @DavidPostill

nobody

8:59 AM

Hi everyone!

I've got a question. If I cast a reopen vote on a question, then a mod reopens it and almost immediately closes it again (with the intent of changing the close reason), does that mean my reopen vote will be lost?

Tinkeringbell

Yes, though I think you can vote again after a certain time. Ask @Sonic , he used that tactic on IPS long ago.

He should know the specifics; like whether that's only for aged away votes or also for ones that went through ;)

nobody

@Tinkeringbell How long?

rene

@nobody 14 days: meta.stackexchange.com/questions/250223/…

Tinkeringbell

I'm just not sure if that's only for 'aged away', or also applicable when the reopen vote was 'validated' by a mod reopening the question, then immediately closing it again?

rene

It doesn't matter me thinks

Rob

9:08 AM

@Tinkeringbell That is the delay for a reply, the transmission is relayed via Jupiter station:

Io (film)

Io is a 2019 American science fiction film directed by Jonathan Helpert. It stars Margaret Qualley, Anthony Mackie and Danny Huston. It was released on January 18, 2019, by Netflix. == Plot == The film is set in a post-apocalyptic present, where Earth's atmosphere has become toxic. Most humans have fled the planet, to live on a space station near Io, a moon of Jupiter. Sam Walden is one of the few humans remaining on Earth. She lives alone at high altitude, where the air is still breathable, trying to raise bees that can survive in the atmosphere. Her intent is to use the bees to eventually clean...

nobody

@rene Thanks. But that means... by the time I can vote again, the other reopen votes will have aged away. And I probably won't even remember about this question.

Rob

Follow it.

Journeyman Geek

@DavidPostill He has one!

@ShodipoAyomide I think someone mentioned facebook avas get blocked by some browsers. ... google ones are sometimes broken too....

imgur ones kinda work

Luuklag

@JourneymanGeek gravatars always do ;)

Sonic the Curiouser Hedgehog

101

Q: Age close votes after 14 days, regardless of views, allowing recasting

I've been putting this off for a long time... Close vote aging - the deactivation of votes that haven't resulted in a question being closed - is a critical part of the vote-to-close system, but has something of a troubled history: all too often, it has been more annoying than useful, capriciously...

Aged votes can be recast 14 days after they've aged. However, if your vote led to a successful reopening, it cannot be recast if it gets closed again.

nobody

9:17 AM

@SonictheCuriouserHedgehog So essentially, my reopen vote's gone? :(

Sonic the Curiouser Hedgehog

Yes, it is, unfortunately.

nobody

Ok thanks for the help!

Luuklag

If that is the case, you can always start a Meta post about it @nobody.

Sonic the Curiouser Hedgehog

Technically, it's considered an abuse of power to clear pending close/reopen votes using mod or gold-badge powers, but I'd assume good faith first. Perhaps they didn't notice that you'd voted to reopen (e.g. if they loaded the page before you voted), or weren't aware of that discussion.

Luuklag

Since in essence you disagree with the mod closing it again. Although asking them in chat might be prefered.

nobody

9:20 AM

@SonictheCuriouserHedgehog it was good-faith, they just wanted to change the close reason. I guess they didn't realize this side effect

Luuklag

Best would be to hit them up in chat then, and discuss

Tinkeringbell

@SonictheCuriouserHedgehog It's not an abuse of power if you have a bunch of people voting to reopen because the close-vote reason isn't applicable. In that case reopening and closing again using a more correct reason is the thing to do.

nobody

@Tinkeringbell But then I disagree with the new reason too, so what do I do?

Tinkeringbell

@nobody Meta or chat, like Luuklag said ;)

nobody

@Luuklag Discussed on meta, our opinions on the post differ that's all

Luuklag

9:26 AM

Fair enough, if your able to frame in a neutral tone

rene

@Tinkeringbell are you planning on migrating that "mean" question to MSO?

Hmm, based on your edit, I guess not ;)

it is moot now, self deleted on main.

Sonic the Curiouser Hedgehog

Based on the phrasing, they were asking for answers, not just providing a link

Journeyman Geek

@nobody though sometimes, its worth having trust in others

nobody

@JourneymanGeek Not sure what you mean...

Journeyman Geek

@nobody If a mod or community folks changed the close reason - well, reopening it might not be the best option

nobody

9:36 AM

@JourneymanGeek It has 3 reopen votes right now, so I guess this is an exception

Journeyman Geek

Unless its fixable. Back when I was a regular user/newbie, I used to make a case on meta for reopenings

@nobody then trust that 2 more people think so

nobody

Hopefully.

Sonic the Curiouser Hedgehog

I might add that the guidance from staff says that you shouldn't (vote to) reopen questions that should be closed, but were closed with the wrong reason; instead, just leave them closed and leave a comment with the correct reason

The only exception when you should reopen and re-close is if the question should instead be closed as a duplicate; that is, if it's closed for a non-duplicate reason and only the duplicate reason should apply, it should be reopened and re-closed as a duplicate

Tinkeringbell

@rene Nah, I don't migrate such stuff. I usually point out how a better question could be written, and then delete ;)

rene

Yeah, I saw it develop. I started an answer but that didn't go anywhere.

Sonic the Curiouser Hedgehog

9:42 AM

Makes sense. The question isn't likely to be accepted on Meta.SO anyway, so no point in migrating

Rob

> "Don't vote to reopen items that should be closed, but were closed with the wrong close reason (unless it should instead be closed as a duplicate). - If the item should have been closed, leave it closed, regardless of what the actual close reason says. Same goes if later edits address the given close reason, but a different one also applies or begins to apply.". Source: meta.stackexchange.com/a/180450/282094

Should that text be changed?

Tinkeringbell

@Rob No, that's correct. But if, as a mod, I see someone voted to reopen something with a comment saying 'this isn't X but Y', it's not necessarily an abuse of power to say 'okay, it's not X but Y', reopen it and close it correctly ;) It happens rarely, but people do it sometimes. And on smaller sites, you're likely to notice, and it's easy to correct :P

Sonic the Curiouser Hedgehog

@Rob That guidance is aimed at normal users, and it makes sense for them since an entire cycle of votes would take a long time, whereas with a mod-hammer, it's nearly instant.

@Tinkeringbell There is one caveat with this approach, however. In case the question should indeed be reopened later on (e.g. it's edited to address the other, second close reason), the same users who voted initially to reopen can't vote to reopen again, whereas if you don't reopen and re-close, they can. But that's fairly minor in the grand scheme of things, they can just bring it up on meta instead

Rob

True, that doesn't necessarily apply to moderators (or even Gold Hammers); it's specifically addressed to Reviewers, and what their correct course of action should be. But it's the closest example I could find, and @nobody was asking what they should do (have done).

Sonic the Curiouser Hedgehog

Personally, I'd just let it be unless it actually reached the threshold, and otherwise just leave a comment explaining the correct reason and a link to the above help center article I linked stating that such questions should be left closed, though that can be more work (having to watch the question later on) and it also leaves an incorrect reason in the notice on top

Rob

9:55 AM

One person's opening and closing can be done quickly; sending it through the queues twice for a technicality of "wrong reason" (except for adding the correct duplicate link) is what that advises against.

I looked to see why that didn't appear as one blob, it was split by an intervening comment - both of those were a reply to you @Tink

Tinkeringbell

There's a decision you make as a mod when seeing this that balances both a.) the time people spend in the queues on this, b.) the risk of other people 'losing' their reopen votes, c.) the benefits of having the correct close reason displayed for the poster, d.) the benefit of having the correct close reason displayed for community members trying to help improve the question...

All in all, I think the benefits of having the correct close reason displayed often outweigh the possible downsides of reopening/closing a question that displays a 'wrong' reason.

Sure, you can wear yourself out by keeping close watch on something for 14 days, hoping it doesn't meet the threshold... at the same time, reopen votes on a question that should remain closed can send a confusing message to the OP that might discourage them from improving their question...

Mithical

8

A: What happens to users who were underage at the time they created their account, but are now of age?

Nothing - most likely. If your account still claims to be underage (your profile states it, for example) and that is reported to us, we assume the account holder is the age noted and will act accordingly. If there's no indication that someone is currently underage, then we leave the account alone...

*wipes sweat off brow*

Tinkeringbell

I'm finding the recent obsessions with underage users confusingly amusing XD

John Dvorak

10:12 AM

Because, you know, going from site's favorite mod to non-existent just because some lawyer got bored is ... fun.

Tinkeringbell

... I'm not sure if you're just generally grumping about that <18 mod ruling, or if I really missed a moderator getting bumped somewhere ...

Mithical

I seem to remember Doorknob having to jump through hoops or something to get retroactive parental permission on board, so it's good to know that others don't have to do that.

Journeyman Geek

@Mithical Ah, I wasn't aware that was necessary

@Mithical Don't forget "Snitches get snickers"

Or was that stitches.

John Dvorak

I think it was "snitch snacks"

Journeyman Geek

No idea. Can't eat snickers

Rob

10:24 AM

@Tinkeringbell By all means, if one person wants to correctly fix something that's an improvement. It's the need for several people (including Skippers) to deal with it that's the downside; especially on Stack Overflow, with over 5600 Close and Reopen reviews queued.

John Dvorak

> Special occasion bounty program: We're upgrading our infrastructure, and so the next 1000 people who report an underage user to us will get rewarded with network equipment previously used by the company, complete with a certificate of authenticity and a signature by an employee.

> Remember: snitches get switches

Tinkeringbell

@Rob I do understand that, and I won't encourage people to go reopening it in the first place.... I just said that if I see someone do that, I might save that several other people the effort by just overriding it as a mod ;)

Journeyman Geek

@JohnDvorak bites @JohnDvorak

Tinkeringbell

That doesn't make the first action 'right', it only makes the second one a matter of 'my way of cleaning up the mess you caused'

Rob

and that's good (for us that a mod takes their important time away from other things); bad for Nobody to start the long and winding road.

On SO it would be a review failure and count towards a ban - possibly manually imposed.

Here on MSE (I believe) we just get more audits, the passing or failing of which isn't announced (unlike elsewhere).

Journeyman Geek

10:33 AM

MSE is kinda mechanically "eh, we'll give you lots of leeway"

also, MSE has a wierdly small review queue

Rob

The punishment is more (obvious / ghost?) audits; when you review against the votes of others (some of who don't follow the guidelines). An actual "ban" here I haven't heard of being automatically generated.

Here's the ban experience on Stack Overflow: meta.stackoverflow.com/a/351503/3648282 meta.stackoverflow.com/a/338526/3648282 meta.stackoverflow.com/q/400210/3648282 etc.

Way tougher than here at murdertown.

JNat

10:56 AM

@SonictheCuriouserHedgehog gone

@JourneymanGeek gone and gone

Journeyman Geek

12:13 PM

→ 4 messages moved to Chimney

Luuklag

12:23 PM

Fun how Google translates Flag to anxiety

Tinkeringbell

12:36 PM

@Luuklag I love that one :D

Meta Andrew T.

12:55 PM

Hot Network Not-Really-a-Question: Photo Competition 2021-03-01: Straight out of camera

Tinkeringbell

Weird, shouldn't stuff like that be posted on their meta instead of main? XD

Oh, they deliberately did to that... interesting!

Meta Andrew T.

On one hand, it's a clever idea. On the other hand, (more) per-site policy fragmentation :|

Tinkeringbell

Something changed wrt custom moderator flags and closing posts: Closing a post no longer automatically handles the flag as well. Is there any faq on here that should be edited to reflect this?

Luuklag

1:20 PM

@MetaAndrewT. I commented on that Q, that I find this a wrong thing to do.

Journeyman Geek

@Luuklag \o/

House rules? It also incentivises entries through rep

photo.stackexchange.com/questions/tagged/photo-competition

seems a thing

Luuklag

I'm sorry to be nagging here, but this is not a question that fits within the SE modal of Questions and Answers. This is a META topic, and should belong on your META site. This now is featured in the HotNetworkQuestions, which I personally find very inappropriate. — Luuklag 2 mins ago

Tinkeringbell

Honestly, there's a point to be raised: 'perhaps as a site you might not want this in HNQ each time'... On the other hand, if it works for them to attract traffic and show off their site, why not? :P Just hope people don't start random 'contest' questions on other sites XD

This seems like adding the words 'photo competition' to a blocklist could solve, but I think it's up the photography se community to decide what they want to show on HNQ, not for us to decide what we want to see there....

I don't like it if others decide what they want to see on HNQ for you XD

Tinkeringbell

2:15 PM

Glad to see you're still alive @Catija ! Any signs of things improving anytime soon?

Catija

Meh. Not sure. Apparently our power is back up but there was an ice storm last night so getting back is questionable. Plus, there's no water and who knows if the water heater will work again.

Also, always possible that the power will go out again.

Tinkeringbell

Oof :| But you're at least no longer camping out in the car then?

M.A.R.

@Luuklag modal? model?

Modil

Catija

@Tinkeringbell yeah. It's better. She doesn't have enough water pressure to take showers, though, so I'm... not super happy about that. 🤣

Tinkeringbell

@Catija Does she have a bath tub? Sounds like the perfect excuse to just soak in a tub then :)

Catija

2:32 PM

Nope

Tinkeringbell

That sucks :(

Journeyman Geek

@Tinkeringbell Do you want a CMsicle? that's how you get a CMsicle....

@Catija if all else fails, use a bucket? :D

Tinkeringbell

@JourneymanGeek I was assuming Catija was at least in a place that's warm now ;)

rene

2:47 PM

We send our warmth to @Catija ....

Catija

Thanks.

Luuklag

@Catija You are one of those millions affected by power outages I read on the news?

Tinkeringbell

@rene Careful, or you'll cause more climate change!

Catija

@Luuklag yeah.

rene

@Tinkeringbell I was hoping she would send an Elfstedentocht in return ...

Tinkeringbell

2:59 PM

@rene Not going to happen I think... :P

Luuklag

@Catija Best of luck then to you!

rene

If we start practicing now I guess we can have an Elfstedenkluuntocht next winter ...

Otherwise it will be one of those we'll see how much cities we can do before lockdown-tocht again.

Tinkeringbell

Hahaha I somehow don't think anyone could get enough endurance and/or speed to kluun the entire thing, that's just too slow :)

(at least within 1 day, and didn't you have to finish before midnight for it to count, or something?)

@rene It was kinda fun knowing the guy was doing that, but then came the 'the ice is too bad' and the 'my knee hurts' and it somehow lost a whole bunch of glamour.

rene

Yeah

Rob

@Tinkeringbell Here's their meta:

@Luuklag, See (for one example): "Proposal: Rules for New Photo Contest on Main Site", the decisions with respect to this have been made after a discussion on meta. — Rob 2 mins ago

Tinkeringbell

3:12 PM

@Rob Yeah I saw that, or I wouldn't have made the remark about it being on main deliberately?

Luuklag

@Rob Yeah well I get their point, but I still believe these things shouldn't exist on Main sites. We don't do polling like questions, which this exactly is.

Rob

I thought you might have been been commenting about someone new to moderation doing that deliberately, and users with several years experience ignoring it.

@Luuklag We have fun

Luuklag

@Rob But that doesn't end up in the sidebar, unless someone decides to feature it.

Rob

I hear ya, but that's how it went. Perhaps @Luuklag could write a MSE question about non-traditional activity. There's no (very very limited) voting down on one site; once one post was mistakenly chewed by Smokey, setting off a complaint. --- Some sites allow opinions, others not; the list of sins is long.

Luuklag

@Rob Yeah ofcourse there are sites that allow oppinions (to a degree) For example software recs comes to mind.

Rob

3:26 PM

and by definition what becomes spam is so much harder to define.

Kulfy

Seems this has been fixed since the visual redesign went live, at least on Ask Ubuntu. Is there anyone who can confirm on Super User, since redesign is yet to be released network wide.

29

Q: Only actions taken are displayed on question while checking the history of Low Quality Posts review

On Ask Ubuntu, when I try to view my Low Quality Posts review history and click on the action taken on questions, I can only see the actions taken and no preview of the question. Example 1: The question still exists on the site: How can i fix the problem with the battery? It seems question ...

bug status-review review low-quality-posts

Rob

@Luuklag An example of exceptional behavior is going into the Database and hacking, or rewriting the software to change the way it works. Do we want other sites to come here to call us on our sins?

Kulfy

Hmm.. I wasn't expecting a downvote...

Luuklag

@Rob Not sure what of that timeline page should strike me as rewriting the software

Rob

How many bounties awarded per day, instead of one per few days.

Rob

3:50 PM

you are aware of percussive maintenance.

Tinkeringbell

@Rob Oh dang, I would NOT get in that elevator.

Rob

4:15 PM

@Tinkeringbell Elevators can not free fall: globalnews.ca/video/6423056/… science.howstuffworks.com/science-vs-myth/everyday-myths/… abc7chicago.com/hancock-center-john-chicago-building/5264740 - despite the myth. --- The filthy elevator is scarier than that one.

rene

@Rob ever tried a Paternoster?

Rob

@rene Nope.

That's the definition of "Step lively folks, or don't."

It's worse than the most annoying elevator, which stops on every floor (even in skyscrapers).

Feeds

The pros and cons of being a software engineer at a BIG tech company

Ben Popper on February 17, 2021

There are benefits to being a technical lead at a less software intensive business.

Rob

4:36 PM

The worst elevator, and after repairs. - The buttons foretell the journey.

Tinkeringbell

4:47 PM

@Rob I don't care. Primal fear isn't a thing you can rationally explain away XD

Rob

See the first video in the link directly above. It's a luxury hotel.

gnat

6:13 PM

@Catija I noticed that new CM is listed among MSE moderators (meta.stackexchange.com/users?tab=moderators), is this expected? Last time I checked these were supposed to be only non-employees

Mithical

probably has something to do with there being no staff flag

JNat

hmm.... lemme look into that

DavidPostill

6:29 PM

@Tinkeringbell It's deliberate

37

Q: Only dismiss custom moderator flags when a moderator explicitly marks them helpful or declined

TL;DR Custom moderator flags should only be dismissed by a moderator explicitly marking them helpful or declined. I raised a custom moderator flag on a question. The flag was automatically marked helpful when the question was closed by a mod, without displaying the custom flag to any moderator. T...

bug feature-request status-completed moderator-tools custom-flags

Rob

@JNat First discussed at length here: chat.meta.stackexchange.com/transcript/message/8761852#8761852 - we thought you noticed. :)

JNat

oh, right... I don't always look at the transcript :P

user400654

7:04 PM

🚽

Juan M

@gnat yeah, we're working on his permissions. That will be adjusted soon

Spevacus

Checking all the boxes, boxing all of the checks?

Juan M

yup :D

he's been removed

Spevacus

Nice to see you've already run him through the gauntlet of joining every site on the network.

o/ Ayo

Tinkeringbell

@DavidPostill I know! The question about the faq wasn't meant to mean I doubted whether this was deliberate ;)

Juan M

7:20 PM

@Spevacus Yes, it's a task but it's important.

Rob

7:36 PM

@JuanM He's missed a few sites, lost his diamond here, and has no Staff Bit - so, one step forward one step back. You need a script.

ArtofCode is a member of one more site than Ayo, plus there's a few hidden sites.

JNat

I think you're overlooking the "initiation ritual" aspect of this

no script needed

xD

Spevacus

Looks like CS50 and Area51 aren't there.

Rob

Glo is a member of three more sites.

Spevacus

Glorfindel cheats. :P

JNat

I have 3 more sites than Ayo, FWIW

Rob

7:40 PM

@JNat Nope.

yesterday, by Rob

Probably stick on a few diamonds and give a once over on the pile-on before he goes under the bus.

To increase the ritual: There's a bug (Feature?) that if the site has a per-site-meta and you don't visit you don't get a meta link in your profile and your years a member (and your Enthusiast / Fanatic badge countdown) doesn't start on their meta.

Example:

meta.serverfault.com/users/602939/shodipo-ayomide?__=9858114

serverfault.com/users/602939/shodipo-ayomide?__=9858114

user400654

who would visit a site without first visiting it's meta gasp

Rob

He's 404 on their meta.

rene

Meta is murder anyway

Rob

Only ours.

Mostly because it's main and our main is everything everywhere; but not Q&A based.