Tavern on the Meta - 2020-10-19

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12:16 AM

is there a current list of priorities on which SE/SO developer time is spent these days?

I kinda keep reading "devs are too busy these days" but busy doing what?

and I've been reading it for the past 7 or so years, so haha

I know it's nigh impossible to sway anyone to implement anything on short notice, still I'm curious

Journeyman Geek

12:44 AM

@user1306322 no

1:05 AM

til next time then :p

1:53 AM

@user1306322 Sort of:

771

Q: Recent feature changes to Stack Exchange

This is an unofficial list/changelog of new features and various changes to Stack Overflow and the Stack Exchange network. It is maintained by the community, while a Stack Exchange employee changes the accepted answer to ensure that the latest changes remain on top (given default user settings)....

2:53 AM

@JNat Two accounts posting identical spam over a dozen times in the past few weeks on three sites: metasmoke.erwaysoftware.com/domains/65135

3:50 AM

→ 18 messages moved to Chimney

2 hours later…

Sonic the Masked Werehog

5:33 AM

@JNat Cross-site spammer: stackexchange.com/users/19768201/kaifsophia

6:30 AM

→ 4 messages moved to Chimney

2 hours later…

8:27 AM

featured posts should probably be exempt from the "disappears from the home page at -8" rule.

Journeyman Geek

8:46 AM

@Mithical they should

and the sudden downward trend is wierd

yeah

@JourneymanGeek Meh. I looked at the vote summaries by day, only the first two days the upvotes heavily outweighed the downvotes. But it's been having a consistent flow of downvotes since it was posted.

Queenie Goldstein

1

A: Sandbox archive

kbd recursion ...

Is anybody getting

status-stack-overflow

when opening the above?

user image

anyone?

9:29 AM

@QueenieGoldstein yes, on chrome

2 hours later…

Queenie Goldstein

11:24 AM

@rene on FF after running snippet

Shadow Wizard Wearing Mask

11:41 AM

Weird chat behavior: title of the chat tab updates with new message count even when I'm not in the room. Bug?

Expected: when I'm not in the room, I don't care what's posted in there.

@QueenieGoldstein Final Fantasy?

@ShadowWizardWearingMask What do you mean by not in the room?

Journeyman Geek

Stuff I would do if I wasn't living with my parents...

user image

I mean, that's pretty cheap, for so much ram you could run your whole OS in it

Shadow Wizard Wearing Mask

@Mithical I joined the Den, and had tab with the Tavern open as well, but didn't enter it yet, i.e. wasn't in the room. Yet, I saw the (1) in the title when Smokey posted while I was in Den.

how did you have a tab open to it without having joined it

Shadow Wizard Wearing Mask

Chrome doesn't auto reload all tabs.

It reloads only when you actually enter a tab.

But looks like JS is active somehow.

So the JS code that updates the title doesn't check if you're actually in the room.

Scortchi - Reinstate Monica

11:47 AM

@JourneymanGeek: Even if you assume that the probability of a vote's being an up-vote is independent of how many votes were previously cast (& of whether they were up- or down-votes), the observed proportion of up-votes will be rather variable early on.

Here are some simulations (using an estimate of 138/288, from the current vote tallies, for that probability)

Shadow Wizard Wearing Mask

@JourneymanGeek how living with your parents prevents you from buying this?

Scortchi - Reinstate Monica

user image

Under the same assumption, the score is a random walk with drift:

user image

@JourneymanGeek They say they have a 1000000% guarantee, what more do we need to know!

Journeyman Geek

@ShadowWizardWearingMask space and PAF

I have a soft rule that if something comes in, something goes out

and I'm waiting on the GPU I want to be in stock so I need to save my money for that anyway :D

and tbh

I have... quite a lot of PCs...

12:28 PM

Also, (fine print) the CPUs and RAM are used; same motherboard in US (at OldEgg) is 1/2 price without CPUs and RAM - also small number of reviews say "it works" and "it doesn't work, and no reply". Basically, it's crap for cheap; but for over a thousand bucks, not so cheap.

Journeyman Geek

Craft computing has used these boards a lot. It's a somewhat known quantity and everyone knows the cpu and ram is pulls.

It's not going to be a great gaming rig and there's all sorts of numa fun

It's cheapish for the number of cores and ram, and pretty sure you can't get a rig with that much ram comparably

Queenie Goldstein

@ShadowWizardWearingMask Fox on Fire

12:43 PM

An equivalent (much better) SuperMicro MB is U$350, and 2 new (6 year old 10 core) CPUs are available for U$500; so you could probably pick up used RAM for the difference and pay the same to get a new SuperMicro MB with 2 new CPUs - so not as good a deal as it first seems.

Shadow Wizard Wearing Mask

@JourneymanGeek throw away the bed, sleep on the floor? ;)

Journeyman Geek

So.uh. it's for a particular need. If it has intel ethernet adaptors it might be a really competent esxi server , or run kcn lr... or a good option for mis stage home lab

@Rob Singapore dollars. So don't forget the conversion

@ShadowWizardWearingMask naaaaw

Shadow Wizard Wearing Mask

@QueenieGoldstein that's FoF

@JourneymanGeek bed is over-estimated anyway

I could sleep just fine inside a tank.

(mobile gun, but same engine)

Journeyman Geek

@ShadowWizardWearingMask well more a lack of time

Also I don't need 256 gb of ram... 🤣

Shadow Wizard Wearing Mask

@JourneymanGeek sleeping on the floor requires more time? scratching head

Journeyman Geek

12:46 PM

Maybe if I dump my dedi...

Oh. To do homelab stuff

@ShadowWizardWearingMask Get Down on it is the easy part, it's getting up; that's where the problem lies.

He needs an embedded CPU.

Shadow Wizard Wearing Mask

@Rob training.

Kick Up Tutorial: Jump from Back to Feet!

Good for the abs.

hi

Shadow Wizard Wearing Mask

hi!

@rene you around? I have a thorny SQL problem

Shadow Wizard Wearing Mask

12:54 PM

ouch

Thorn hit my littlefinger.

I have a murderously complex single CTE (3 cte's and 5 sub-sub querys.) I want to use scalar variables in them to ease off on inputting constants, but it doesn't work for me.

Shadow Wizard Wearing Mask

status-missing-code

@mag what's up?

as in, I can't use scalar variables that I declare before the CTE inside the CTE

`DECLARE @myvar int;`
`SET @myvar = 2;`

after that the 900 line demon CTE

I want to use the scalar variables inside the CTE and specifically the select query of the CTE. I found this which tells me I'm probably scoping the variable wrong (stackoverflow.com/questions/26908234/…) but I have no idea how to scope it correctly. I tried wrapping the whole mess in begin and end but that doesn't work either.

I have a feeling i'm missing something stupid

@mag this works for me: data.stackexchange.com/stackoverflow/query/1311800

1:03 PM

even if you use the variable in the SELECT part of the cte?

yep

It tells me I need to declare the scalar variable

maybe I need to wrap this in a procedure

@ShadowWizardWearingMask This guy is way better at kip up, as you can see from first few seconds and at 5:35 in the video.

test

@mag do you have a GO statement somewhere? maybe implicit

@Mithical works

1:08 PM

no go statement, unless heidisql creates one

error 137 must declare scalar variable before use

3

Q: Eeeeek! Chat is Dead!

I got "unknown error" when posting a chat message, then tried to reload. This is what I got: Can you please bring the chat back? This affects all chat domains: https://chat.stackoverflow.com https://chat.stackexchange.com https://chat.meta.stackexchange.com

wait

It's ***** heidisql isn't it

the piece of ****

@mag you declare them at the top of your sql statment, right?

yes

it is heidisql omg

apparently it inserts GO someplace because it works in ssms

flips table

@Mithical no repro... ;)

1:12 PM

@mag sanity restored. ...

Who broke the chat?

@rene Mate this is a 900 line 8 layers deep CTE using 3 different dirty trick methods to aggregate a custom attendance time function

There is no sanity here only madness and despair

@mag That's how all my code looks :)

Quick, say things while @ShadowWizardWearingMask is locked out...

Shadow Wizard Wearing Mask

Hello from my phone!

1:18 PM

says @Catija when @ShadowWizardWearingMask joins

Shadow Wizard Wearing Mask

Lol

Nooooooo....

Darn.

Dangit.

Shadow Wizard Wearing Mask

Q

Huh? 😂

Resistance Is Futile

1:19 PM

It works...

Shadow Wizard Wearing Mask

I didn't post that Q

I saw that you couldn't get into chat and thought "Now's my chance!"

Apparently some people are special and being told to take the day off chat. :P

Shadow Wizard Wearing Mask

Time to edit the bug report...

It was fat finger syndrome, @ShadowWizardWearingMask

1:21 PM

Yaakov posted an answer.

@ShadowWizardWearingMask how about now?

Journeyman Geek

@YaakovEllis teeeechhhniiicalllllyyyy.... if he couldn't connect, he couldn't reply

hides

hahaha

Journeyman Geek

also... is a reference to SE 1.0 sites... uh, even relevant after nearly a decade ? :D

user image

1:29 PM

poor rene

:(

@JourneymanGeek he wrote that he could still access on his phone

and I'm back!

I saw your "And now?" message in Tavern, when trying to reply (from phone, where it still worked) poof.... same issue. cry — Shadow Wizard Wearing Mask 2 mins ago

Poor guy :(

@rene You say that like it's a good thing...

1:32 PM

I .... assumed y'll would be happy :/

I'm just one person, perhaps you should ask someone else ;)

@rene and @ShadowWizardWearingMask can you repro now?

o/

all works for me, also SO chat works

@ShadowWizardWearingMask Trying those links in private mode gives a banner I've never seen before, but it's a red herring - otherwise, all three links work in North America. 😛

1:36 PM

How do we know chat works for @YaakovEllis ...

@rene we dont

Ha! ;)

ooooo

Journeyman Geek

@YaakovEllis question... how many servers do you have left to kick off? :D

You're just inserting records in the messages table ...

1:37 PM

@JourneymanGeek n > 1 ;)

mehh larger equal sign failure :(

Yaakov with the haiku as well

Shadow Wizard Wearing Mask

Yay!!! I'm back. :D

Ayyy!

Shadow Wizard Wearing Mask

+1000000000 to @Yaakov

@Spevacus have to make it official

Shadow Wizard Wearing Mask

1:39 PM

Or 20 sheeps.

What you prefer? :D

@ShadowWizardWearingMask I am just relaying things to y'all. I didnt actually do anything here.

Shadow Wizard Wearing Mask

@YaakovEllis oh. So who did? redirecting the sheep

just harvesting the rep

my guess would be bluefeet

Shadow Wizard Wearing Mask

Or Nick?

1:41 PM

Someone with at least one boot in the server room ;)

Shadow Wizard Wearing Mask

Though stubborn servers might need a really blue feet for a strong kick. :P

Journeyman Geek

Bluefeet is more on the dba side

Eiffel 65 - Blue (Da Ba Dee)

@Luuklag So they're really not beating up blue guys?

@ShadowWizardWearingMask The servers went crazy. (Warning viola-ence).

Shadow Wizard Wearing Mask

1:46 PM

Kenny... is.... dead....

:(

He was a good s, in the long run.

@ShadowWizardWearingMask He can be rebuild.

Shadow Wizard Wearing Mask

No... it won't be the same Kenny....

Which means you get a whole new Kenny to corrupt

Shadow Wizard Wearing Mask

lol

The biggest loss is the poo counter. :D

1:52 PM

Then get @rene to make backups periodically of that XD

Shadow Wizard Wearing Mask

yeah it's just matter of storing a number, then reading it when Kenny starts over. :D

yay! He's back!

in Shadow's Den, 29 secs ago, by KennyBOT

~ 💩

sending the sheep to @rene since Yaakov failed to say who fixed the chat servers

:D

oh no, Kenny also lost all the food.

Ahh, poor Kenny. Go feed the poor hungry bot ;)

Shadow Wizard Wearing Mask

@Tinkeringbell already did. ;)

in Shadow's Den, 4 mins ago, by Shadow Wizard Wearing Mask

!!feed 100 sheep

the food spilled in my server

Shadow Wizard Wearing Mask

lol

Let me see what I fed it....

oh no

in Shadow's Den, Oct 7 at 14:11, by Shadow Wizard Wearing Mask

!!feed a very big bounty

@rene the bounty is now all over your server then?

It's very sticky, you know.

2:02 PM

Stinks of coconut as well...

Shadow Wizard Wearing Mask

Yup

Heat from the CPU melts the chocolate.

A bounty is a waste of chocolate anyways, if you ask me. But melting the chocolate is even worse!

@ShadowWizardWearingMask Really need to turn off spacebar overheating

@Machavity Unless you're rickrolling, I'm proud of myself for knowing exactly what that link is supposed to go to :D

It's a running joke:

southpark.fandom.com/wiki/…

2:07 PM

@ShadowWizardWearingMask it is in the heat-sink

Shadow Wizard Wearing Mask

Good spot.

@Tinkeringbell What's worse than a Bounty, Cherry Blossom.

@Rob Ugh yeah that doesn't sound very tasty.

It's awful fake cherry sauce.

While chocolate with real or good fake cherry sauce is rather nice :)

2:17 PM

It's reject maraschino: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maraschino_cherry

@Rob Oh those are gross....

If I get cake with one of those on top, I refuse to eat it.

Unlike, for example, DQ cherry sauce:

user image

:D

Makin' everyone hungry!

Now I want some schwarzwalder kirsch ice cream again.

2:27 PM

Damn you all! Now I'm hungry

Might need to dip into the stash of Stroopwafels

Black Forest gateau

Black Forest gâteau or Black Forest cake (American English) is a chocolate sponge cake with a rich cherry filling based on the German dessert Schwarzwälder Kirschtorte (pronounced [ˈʃvaʁt͡svɛldɐ ˈkɪʁʃˌtɔʁtə]), literally "Black Forest Cherry-torte". Typically, Black Forest gateau consists of several layers of chocolate sponge cake sandwiched with whipped cream and cherries. It is decorated with additional whipped cream, maraschino cherries, and chocolate shavings. In some European traditions, sour cherries are used both between the layers and for decorating the top. Traditionally, kirschwasser,...

@Luuklag I have a few M&Ms left over from the weekend stash... but no stroopwafels :(

I mostly just want proper dinner now though.

@Rob The ice cream variant is chocolate ice cream, vanilla ice cream, cherries, whipped cream, and kirschwasser :)

Had a few the last time we went to Germany, they were lovely :D

Very cute:

user image

I can't read the plaque; largest picture made out of M&Ms?

🚽

2:38 PM

@JohnDvorak guinnessworldrecords.com/news/commercial/2017/10/…

Tinkeringbell not pictured.

Ah, thanks

at first I thought the lady pictured was one who completed the mosaic

@Tinkeringbell Same here

11 more minutes, if I'm lucky.

@Tinkeringbell You got things sorted out. I have to do all the cooking in this house

Luckily I made the soup yesterday, so only have to heat it, and make the ciabatta pizza bread

@Luuklag I am sure going to miss having a parent cook for me, on the days that said parent cooks things I like :P

@Luuklag That sounds nice!

2:52 PM

Ahhh the perks of not living on your own

Although I don't live on my own, I still have to cook though :/

It comes with a few downsides as well, don't worry ;) It evens out :P

@Luuklag That sucks :P

@Tinkeringbell yeah, but I better not let my 3yo daughter cook, or my 1yo sons...

And when I want a tasty and healthy meal, I better not let my wife cook ;)

Ah, yes. That last one is also the reason I'm not often allowed to cook ;)

I can cook tasty stuff, but if I do that, I have to cook more often so... whenever I have to cook I make sure it's not exactly gross but also not tasty :P

PLOS

Jan 19 '19 at 21:04, by Rob

user image

IT MOVES

3:00 PM

It's creapy AF

cya guys

cya!

Shadow Wizard Wearing Mask

cya!

Made using the cellphone's move face position app, from an image @Sha uploaded; details at the link.

Shadow Wizard Wearing Mask

But I also have a stash!

user image

There were more. :P

@Rob what image did I upload? You uploaded it almost two years ago. #isConfused

@ShadowWizardWearingMask You're correct this time, it was this:

Jan 17 '19 at 15:27, by Rob

@ShadowWizard's new avatar:

3:12 PM

Did I miss chat being down?

Shadow Wizard Wearing Mask

@MetaAndrewT. totally

It was fun

Jan 17 '19 at 15:27, by Rob

user image

Shadow Wizard Wearing Mask

One server misbehaved, after being kicked, the second server crashed.

Then they both crashed.

This is why:

Jan 19 '19 at 21:12, by and myself

I punched the monitor...

I punched the monitor again...

Shadow Wizard Wearing Mask

3:14 PM

lol

Yes now I remember. It's all @M.A.R's fault.

:D

@Meta can you file a lawsuit against people from Iran, in your country? ;)

I guess you can ask for at least $100 for a new monitor. Or even more if you injured your hand. :P

Too bad, we're not really patient.

The monitor's fine... it was made in metal solid... gear?

Shadow Wizard Wearing Mask

@MetaAndrewT. Meta Solid

You know... Metal Andrew has a nice ring to it. :D

In a game I play online, someone named Umar chose nickname "Iron Umar", being in guild called Iron Squad. It... fits. :)

(they happen to be the strongest guild also)

Metal is mental

Shadow Wizard Wearing Mask

Meta is Mentally Metal

Andy's webcam

1 hour later…

4:43 PM

How to communicate more deliberately and efficiently when working remotely

Ben Popper on October 19, 2020

When you already know your co-workers and how they approach work, that is fine as they probably haven’t changed all that much since the start of the pandemic. You cannot safely transfer those assumptions to new team members, however, as people remain people, rather than the microservices that they may seem over the internet.

→ 20 messages moved to Chimney

Queenie Goldstein

4:58 PM

sdc scan meta.stackexchange.com/questions/3122/formatting-sandbox/…

!!/coffee

@QueenieGoldstein brews a cup of jQuery for @QueenieGoldstein

Queenie Goldstein

sd did not see that all letters were CAPS

it kind of did: Few unique characters in answer - Contains 1 unique character
Repeating characters in answer - 'N'*20, 'N'*20, 'N'*20, 'N'*20

Queenie Goldstein

5:30 PM

@rene I don't know what 1 unique character means, there should be 49920 unique characters (although duplicate)

Also, shouldn't it say N*80 at once?

Here's your chance to win some Codidact swag, such as stickers or a t-shirt

🚽

2 hours later…

7:37 PM

Quick question, when community deletes as spam via vote the post acquired enough spamflags for instant deletion right? Usually this is 6 IIRC, but now I saw a post being deleted with only 2 flags. Is it then a moderator who flags as spam, and that flag carries the weight of 6 flags?

Journeyman Geek

@Luuklag yes

Bet it was you then ;)

Journeyman Geek

Oh. If it was spam? Could be any of us 😁

Yeah, was just some copy pasta, they didn't even get to the point of inserting a spam link

8:32 PM

@QueenieGoldstein I'm not familiar enough with how those smokey rules work. IIRC not all rules check the whole post, some patterns are only checked in the first 1000 characters or so.

IIRC the all-caps post rule is disabled

Shadow Wizard Wearing Mask

All in the name of efficiency. :D

I have a hunch that a rule that looks for a lot of all-caps could have a good hit-rate, but I haven't had time to explore that...

one issue is avoiding catching SQL code and error output

Found "FOO", expected one of INT CHAR BOOL VARCHAR MONEY....and so on

Shadow Wizard Wearing Mask

@Luuklag mod spam flag cause insta deletion, but as far as I know, it doesn't cause -100 penalty. @Journeyman is this correct?

@ShadowWizardWearingMask Nope, it applies the penalty. If the penalty isn't applied, it means the mod chose to delete without flagging, which validates the existing flags.

8:37 PM

^

Just plain deleting with an active red flag will cause the spam masking but not the other penalties, though.

Shadow Wizard Wearing Mask

hmm... I see.

well it's broken again

getting intermittent "We're Offline" messages again

Shadow Wizard Wearing Mask

8:54 PM

@ThomasWard where?

I'm hitting "The service is unavailable." (on Law.SE in this case but probably other places too)

askubuntu but as i said they're intermittent

Shadow Wizard Wearing Mask

"Again"? When did it happen before?

6 days ago

I think people are conflating this with chat having issues earlier

Shadow Wizard Wearing Mask

8:55 PM

@Machavity well that's not related, it affected only chat, and no "offline" message, just bad routing.

Chat rarely seems to be substantially affected by issues hitting the main sites. There was that one time it was wonky at the same time, though, when the Redis cluster was having voting problems.

4

Shadow Wizard Wearing Mask

@ThomasWard oh. Bug report was already submitted?

@ShadowWizardWearingMask no idea, it just went awol randomly 6 days ago and randomly came up and went offline again intermittently

still waiting on the post-incident report :P

Wasn't that the Redis incident? I don't remember which was which :-p

Shadow Wizard Wearing Mask

@ThomasWard well short downtime (few minutes) is kind of acceptable, IMO, if it's only once a week or so.

8:57 PM

...argh, chat search is borked.

Shadow Wizard Wearing Mask

@RyanM huh! Now I'm furious.

:D

So yeah, something broke.. somewhere...

Oct 13 at 13:29, by Catija

> We're back up - a voting issue with failover clustering took one cluster down. We're investigating how it got into a bad weight state there.

twitter.com/Nick_Craver/status/1318294040555720710

Post-incident report for you :-)

looks like there's active issues though now

8:59 PM

:sigh:

@Catija rough day? slides tea over

Thanks :) It's not been terrible... just one of those days where you start out knowing what you need to do... and then you still have to do it at the end of the day.

heh

> We are back up - search is offline while we investigate an issue. -- Nick Craver

Shadow Wizard Wearing Mask

Going to watch a movie. Cya!

Sonic the Masked Werehog

9:28 PM

@RyanM Chat is served from an entirely different server from the main sites. I've often found that I can still access chat even when my IP is rate-limited from accessing the main sites due to too many requests.

@ShadowWizardWearingMask At home, or at the cinema?

Searching for waffles is always successful. 😋 YMMV

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