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Journeyman Geek

12:51 AM

I might need to spend a good chunk of my weekend catching up.on that

Journeyman Geek

1:15 AM

Whoa Jmac replied <3

4

Rob

2:45 AM

Jon Ericson

@MadScientist I'll be honest. We were understaffed at 14, but I felt we could have a positive impact because we had some pretty outstanding talent. (If I do say so myself.) The opportunity cost of making the wrong allocations the last few years is staggering. It's (literally) a crying shame.

Catija

@JourneymanGeek Hm?

Jon Ericson

@TeresaDietrich Perhaps rather than reaching out to the people who are left, you should reach out to the people who have left to see what they think. As Jon pointed out above, there were 14 of us a few years back and that's been whittled down. Rather than just trying to figure out what the "tactical, operational, and strategic" value of the remaining CMs is, why not also take a look at what changed to get to the point where the organization doesn't understand the role CMs play in the relationship with the community? — jmac 2 hours ago

Catija

Ah.... "We don't know what they do but the site wouldn't work without them" ?

Jon Ericson

"We don't know what they do, but people still seem to come to the site even when we have fewer of them."

Catija

2:57 AM

:(

Rob

3:22 AM

Some people seem to view things like online free to play gaming, where they feel that they have purchased virtual in-game items to keep (how?) rather than paying (or getting for free) time on the server. When there's a change of the Rules (or the contents of a Loot Box) there's an almost binary split of buy-in versus backlash. Some view it as winning or losing something, and it is

that which is to be praised or opposed; rather than remembering the purpose of their visit - to ask a question and (hopefully) get a great answer.

jmac

@JourneymanGeek I don't know why that shocks you, but it tickles me that it does.

The oddities of time zones mean that my peak participation time is when the world is asleep. So mostly I come to see people make angry comments on answers from years ago. But seriously, if they're going to work to fix it? Great. Ask us why it needs fixing in the first place. I'm sure most of us have a few suggestions.

Catija

3:42 AM

@jmac Oh. Hai. :)

I don't think I've been around when you were.

Rob

Except for the two posts above the last time they were here was Jun 20 '16 4:06 AM.

John Dvorak

I don't know why people spend so much time and money replacing oil in their cars. It drives just fine without the oil.

jmac

@Catija I am never here. Well, not since I was a CM.

P.S. Someone get Teresa diamonds everywhere? If you're going to be posting to meta with any regularity, better you do it with a diamond.

Catija

3:57 AM

@jmac Sure. :D And that's part of it.

We have a staff indicator now. And... rules about who gets diamonds. I was thinking about it yesterday, though.

jmac

If there's a staff indicator on meta, it isn't clear to me as someone who hasn't noticed it this visit reading said post. Rules about diamonds are all good, my knowledge is 2+ years out of date so all good.

Catija

Hover over the avatar... it's built into the usercard and appears on the profile.

jmac

@JonEricson hey there stranger. Odd to see posts with your name sans diamond.

@Catija I'm no UI expert, but if you have to hover over someone's picture (which was never a thing) then you'll only capture people who are curious about the provenance of the author. If it's a company official person of speaking words-like type, then you may want to show that more prominently. Or I would, if it were me.

4

Catija

Sure. And it's always been an issue. Even diamonds, as nice as they are... don't really say the right thing. You can only tell someone's staff by seeing that they're on every site rather than one or two...and that's not even the case for all staff. Many just have mod powers on an as-needed basis.

jmac

Clearly the answer is to give employees a ♥ or ♣ or ♠

Catija

4:10 AM

Apparently we pulled a hexagon out of somewhere for Teams Admins. Not sure why. :P

And... uh. Diamonds are great. Right now, hearts and clubs and spades would be a bit... off-the mark. Either "loved" or... some sort of weapon.

Dragonrage

@Catija i vote for dodecagons

jmac

♪♩♫♬

I don’t think music notes could be offensive.

maybe it was staff only but I used to be able to directly paste images into chat. That said, looking at the meta post there are two givers and the “new contributor” is far more pronounced. I’d love one for former staff as there seems to also be a JMac who posts on meta, but perhaps ambiguity works in my favor.

John Dvorak

4:32 AM

Actually I think the breve would be most appropriate for those that sit atop the staff...

Rob

Underline the name with:

☆.。.:*・°☆.。.:*・°☆.。.:*・°☆.。.:*・°☆

If people don't rollover or check the profile, that's OK, it's their decision.

John Dvorak

Ah 90s. The time when cheap text-based communication first became widespread and we didn't know yet what to do with it.

Catija

I still have the stars cursor decoration.

It's one of the few bright spots of my days... and Bennett likes playing with it.

Mithical

5:05 AM

Woah, is that a jmac I see? Now there's a name I haven't seen in years.

Shog9

Oh hey! @jmac!! Welcome back :-)

3

Rob

You too.

Sonic the Anonymous Hedgehog

@jmac I remember from the time back before you became an employee, and you posted an unfunny humorous answer to one of my meta questions

Mithical

Seems like an odd thing to bring up now

Catija

🤨

Sonic the Anonymous Hedgehog

5:12 AM

@Mithical Not quite. Most of the talk there was to the effect of, "I remember when you were an employee". I was saying, "I remember back before you became an employee", and then how I remember.

Catija

Yeah... but you also did it in a way that was kinda critical.

Sonic the Anonymous Hedgehog

Here's the answer in question. Looking back at it, it's just plain light-hearted humor. The mood above was more intended to refer to how I initially reacted to said answer and their response to said reaction.

Journeyman Geek

@jmac we've not seen you in ages.

Mithical

@SonictheAnonymousHedgehog already voted

Journeyman Geek

And I have wierd timezones and shifts so I relate 😁

Sonic the Anonymous Hedgehog

5:27 AM

@SonictheAnonymousHedgehog @Shadow @rene @ArtOfCode @Magisch @Glorfindel See the message this is a reply to

(not always visible on mobile)

If I may know, who's the lead of the data science team?

Jon Ericson

@jmac Tell me about it. So many names that should have diamonds, but don't. :-( Great to see you.

I'm in the Philippines right now. Wish I had time to fly to Japan.

Shadow9

6:36 AM

@SonictheAnonymousHedgehog sorry, not sure I get your question... What data team? I'm not familiar with pyomo, guess it's something about it which I miss?

Sonic the Anonymous Hedgehog

@Shadow9 SE's data science team

That's a separate topic from the message you replied to

Shadow9

You said it's about the message you replied to, and that was your plz-delete of the pyomo question.

Anyway, dunno about SE data team.

@JonEricson good! Business or pleasure? :)

!!/fly Philippines

SmokeDetector

@Shadow9 No such command 'fly'.

Shadow9

:(

jmac

@JonEricson I’m envious! If I had known earlier I could have flown down for the weekend (not really, but I could have pretended to and then made a series of more absurd excuses involving my travel woes). Come to japan at some point. I think I still owe you a few beers.

Shadow9

6:41 AM

Huh? Welcome back, @jmac!!! Where have you gone to, if I may ask?

jmac

@JourneymanGeek I disappeared. Browse meta semi-frequently but tend not to log in. For reasons. But figured I’d log in to comment in the rare chance that it actually helps push things in the proper direction.

Shadow9

In this rate, we might even have JasonC back... :P

jmac

@Shadow9 gone to? I mean, I live in the same place I did. I just do engineering engineering rather than community management.

@SonictheAnonymousHedgehog as Shog says, meta is like a local bar with unspoken rules. Sometimes it feels rude but eventually you become one of the curmudgeons. Glad it didn’t spur you off the site at any rate.

Shadow9

@jmac well, one day you were a CM in SE, then all of a sudden... You were not anymore, and didn't show at all, anywhere. Aka gone. Anyway glad to see you back! 👍

jmac

@Shadow9 yeah, I am not able to comment on that. Unfortunately. Anyway Shog and Jon are doing a far better job at it than I would

Shadow9

6:45 AM

@jmac umm... Did.

What's the direction you want to see SE going in?

jmac

@Shadow9 did? I’m confused. They are both very eloquent at speaking about their experiences currently. Far better than I’d be at it.

@Shadow9 I probably shouldn’t answer that either. It’d be nice if the company trusted the community more rather than seemingly viewing them as a product of sorts.

Shadow9

@jmac oh, thought you were talking about their role as CM.

jmac

Just in general I miss what made me join. I enjoyed that the CMs (Shog in particular) engaged and listened and gave perspective and helped bring understanding of this collaborative system to people who cared. Not about right or wrong but about saying “let’s talk about how to cultivate this and make it work” and seeing that help develop and grow the community.

6

Shadow9

@jmac that's for sure, but this ship sank in the ocean of business and money already. No way back from the bottom of that ocean.

Going to make schnitzels for lunch, cya!

!!/coffee jmac

SmokeDetector

@Shadow9 brews a cup of Affogato for @jmac

jmac

6:54 AM

again, my hands are kind of tied about what I can or can’t say about it. So I’d advise anyone to re-read some of what Shog or Jon said on their departure, or some of George Stocker’s epically long tweet parades as they are all far more eloquent than I can be and have more recent experience.

Enjoy @Shadow9

Shadow9

The sound of the schnitzels being made is indeed joyful. Thanks!

Catija

@jmac It's nice to hear that you follow along. I always wonder how much people keep their oar in, though I suspect it varies hugely from person to person.

jmac

@Catija when you work on the CM team you know the struggles, and when things are turbulent I can’t help but sympathize as I watch from afar and wish I could do something.

Catija

@jmac If you ever want to say hi, feel free to reach out. I know we didn't get to know each other previously but it seems we have a common interest and... I love Japan (from afar, since I have never been). I even took two years of the language in college but it mostly has ... deteriorated.

jmac

People who joined Stack during my tenure seemed largely to do it because they believed in the principles that seemed to guide it. The level of ethics across the board of the people doing the work was just so high. I loved that people seemed to ask themselves “is this something I’d feel okay about?” without needing to be asked to.

So when I see some of the ... turns ... in the past year it is hard not to wonder what’s going on knowing that those people are probably struggling. Jon put it pretty well in his blog post.

@Catija feel free to e-mail me (you have my permission, e-mail is in my profile), but if it’s from a stack address I’ll probably not responded

Catija

7:03 AM

Good to know. :)

jmac

And if you do find yourself in japan ever feel free to let me know. Not sure where I’d be (I travel constantly for work), but I’m sure I can buy you a beer.

Catija

Oooh, Sounds great! :D

I don't know if you ever come to the States but I'm in Austin and would be happy to offer the same. :)

jmac

Heh, I’m from New England so I can’t imagine life taking me to Austin. That said I’ve done a round trip to the moon in air miles in the past 15 years or so, so who knows?

Catija

Wow, that sounds like a lot of travel! :D

jmac

Part of the reason I swapped to Stack was to minimize travel (I spent 2012 in the air. 2 weeks flying.). I have some now (Australia, Singapore), but mostly domestic.

I’m currently going from Tokyo to Kobe (in transit to the Shinkansen now) for the weekend to see my family, but trains don’t count as I can nap and enjoy a beer or three.

Sonic the Anonymous Hedgehog

7:12 AM

I guess, by token, business class air travel doesn't count either?

jmac

@SonictheAnonymousHedgehog it does. Planes are cramped even in business (I’m 6’3, 186cm), and I was doing 12 hour flights constantly.

Yeah, I much prefer business, but I’ll take a 3 hour bullet train in the cheap seats over 12 hours in business class any day of the week.

It’s also tough to justify coming back for a weekend from London to Japan given the cost. But Tokyo to Kobe? About the same as a hotel for two nights.

Sonic the Anonymous Hedgehog

@jmac I know what you mean. I got a chance to fly American Airlines' business class seat on a repositioning flight across the U.S. (same seat as Cathay Pacific, they've licensed it); the product was nice enough as you'd expect, but the seat was rather narrow and the walls surrounding me felt rather cramped.

jmac

In 2012 I had a 3-day 3-night business trip to Austria. They could fly me first class and I’d still end up grumpy and exhausted.

@SonictheAnonymousHedgehog I try to fly JAL (same alliance as Cathay/AA), but the gap between a JAL-run flight and an AA one is pretty massive. I was shocked.

Sonic the Anonymous Hedgehog

My father was once flown 15 hours across the Pacific in business class to attend a 1-day business meeting in Taipei. Arrive in evening, spend night in hotel, attend meeting, then fly out.

jmac

Then again I probably have a poor perspective as I’ve flown JAL far too much and they probably treat me nicer than I deserve at this point.

Sonic the Anonymous Hedgehog

7:20 AM

Time gap?

jmac

Service gap. JAL cabin attendants are just so accommodating. AA Made me feel like I was imposing whenever I asked for something.

The fact that I almost got stuck in Boston and couldn’t find anyone from AA to sort things out for 40 minutes may influence my impression significantly.

Turkish Airlines was similar. When things broke down they broke down. Got stuck in Istanbul (was coming from Ankara) due to ice in Istanbul, and despite being a massive airport it took them 6 hours to find me a hotel room to sleep in after arriving at midnight.

Sonic the Anonymous Hedgehog

Try telling that to Cathay Pacific...in 2018, my cousins were flying with them from India to here in California. Their flight from Mumbai was late 6 hours. CX refused to rebook them on an AA-operated flight leaving in 2 hours and insisted they spend the night and fly the next day.

jmac

Normal service can be excused if they’re accommodating when stuff hits the fan. But true good service comes when things are at their worst.

That’s an issue with AA. The flight I booked through AA was for a JAL flight and apparently they had never told JAL.

Sonic the Anonymous Hedgehog

There was another CX-operated flight leaving in one hour, but they refused to put them on that on account of their bags potentially not making it. They had to seriously haggle with agents to get them on that flight, explaining that they didn't care if their bags were late, etc. Eventually they were placed on it. Their bags made it too.

jmac

They flew me to tokyo while they sorted it out, apologized profusely at Tokyo, had someone with a ticket waiting at the gate for me, and it all worked out.

Sonic the Anonymous Hedgehog

7:26 AM

Fun fact: I had advised them to book the AA-operated flight in the first place to save a few bucks. But they didn't do so due to the planned long layover.

jmac

Be back soon. Running to a train.

rene

I never run for public transport; if you miss it, you look like a fool ...

jmac

It’s a bullet train. Not a commuter train.

rene

Oh ... yeah, we don't have those here.

JAD

reserved seat I guess?

Mithical

7:30 AM

@rene gone

jmac

Yep. Nozomi 49.

And I need to buy a beer and a sandwich. There are things that are too important in life to miss out on.

rene

Absolutely, the beer is on me!

Catija

If he runs with it, it may be on him.

I should probably sleep now.

jmac

@rene thankfully the beer has been covered by a mysterious kind employer.

I believe “salary” is derived from the Latin “money for beers”.

Catija

... I thought it was related to salt. :P

jmac

7:39 AM

This has been another edition of “etymology which really should be correct and totally is so long as you don’t check it ever”

Salt? The ancient Latinians has video games? TIL!

Catija

Yup... it's universal...

jmac

Note to self: to sound smart tell people whinging in video games that they’re salaried

Addendum: start playing competitive video games first

Catija

Some of them likely are. I started watching Mythic Quest and I'm about four-five episodes in. Took until the third episode to introduce the lone CM, kept down in a basement room.

jmac

Mythic Quest?

Catija

Apple TV + sitcom - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mythic_Quest:_Raven%27s_Banquet

jmac

7:44 AM

Apple does TV now? TIL for real.

Catija

It's set in a MMORPG game development stuido.

jmac

I wonder which streaming service will get it here. I don’t think they do japan.

All the HBO stuff is on Amazon Prime here.

Catija

Yeah. They tacked it onto the Apple Store, though... which means you have land mines everywhere. Easy to mix up the free content (well, it's a subscription like Netflix) with the pay per view content. A total marketing ploy if I've seen one.

jmac

Used to be on Hulu. Before Netflix came over.

Catija

I only have a membership because I got a new iPhone for Christmas and it came with a one-year subscription.

I'd be far more likely to keep it if they offered a version of the app that had the "free" content only.

jmac

7:46 AM

I’m so envious of people who start their japan journey now. They have so many things that make life so so so much easier. iPhones, internet on their phones, google translate, English streaming services.

Catija

Yeah, I've heard that finding your way around in Japan, or at least in Tokyo, can be rather difficult ... but I guess maps make it way easier.

jmac

“Back in my day! ...” <insert witty anecdotes here>

Yeah, there was no google maps. No searchable English train schedules on your phone.

Catija

But I also feel like... there's something great about learning through trial and error. Getting lost in a new city is... a really interesting way to see things you might miss otherwise.

Did you speak Japanese when you moved there?

jmac

Izakaya ha dojo desu ka? Was about the extent.

Thankfully beer is like a drinkable Babel fish.

Catija

How long did it take you to pick up?

jmac

7:51 AM

6 months for daily conversation/statements of fact. 18 to converse and express myself. 24 for fluency. Mastery is not happening ever.

avazula

I'm guessing writing is harder? I've studied it for some time

Catija

(Mythic Quest CM scene: twitter.com/PezRadar/status/1228000439024488448?s=20)

jmac

Writing on a computer/phone is only slightly more difficult than speaking. Technology is awesome like that.

Handwriting? Please don’t make me. A 9 year old would make me look dumb.

Catija

I loved learning to actually handwrite the language. It was hard (and by no means complete) but it's such a beautiful art.

avazula

@Catija Same feeling here

jmac

7:55 AM

@Catija that’s so depressing. I guess things change with time. Though I suppose that is the image society has of CMs.

avazula

I'm always impressed by people who are fluent in a language that uses a different alphabet that the one from their mother tongue

jmac

@Catija calligraphy is awesome but to do it well you need to have so much time nailing fundamentals that it’s impractical. The Japanese education system has them learning 1000 characters in elementary school. Probably hundreds of characters a day written for practice. As an adult you’re talking thousands of hours of study to get to that point.

Similar characters can have very different stroke orders that will dramatically change how they look with practiced handwriting. Left and right for instance: 左　右

Catija

Not even talking about true calligraphy, really. I just liked the actual writing... like with a pencil.

jmac

You’d assume that outside part is the same. It’s not. They’re drawn differently for no good reason.

So really nice handwriting comes from fluidly combining those strokes in order with shortcuts. Think like a practiced English style. Some combination of cursive and print.

But fluid and unique.

I know identical twins who have identical handwriting. It’s uncanny. They even paint the same. So I really don’t know beyond saying I’m awful at it.

Catija

Learning the stroke orders was part of the art and our professors would mark us down if they were wrong.

jmac

8:09 AM

I failed the last Japanese course I took because we went from conversation to kanji. And I’m not so good at the latter (or wasn’t. I’m good now)

Catija

It's probably the case with most languages but I never was able to get any practice time in for conversation, so nothing stuck. The rote stuff in the first semesters was fine but once I hit the second year it was a struggle.

I don't regret my choice but it would have been a lot easier to find someone to practice Spanish with.

Yaakov Ellis

@Catija (said Catija for the 25th night in a row)

Catija

@YaakovEllis Hey, it's only 2:21!

I went to bed at 1:30 last night.

... crap, it's 2:21

I really should go to bed.

Yaakov Ellis

8:26 AM

And then you say "if I go to bed now, the baby will just wake up in 5 minutes. So better to stay awake so that the baby will sleep."

Magisch

I overslept

I'm home sick but I slept 14 hours in the last 24

also morning

Catija

@YaakovEllis You know my playbook so well. You must be a parent, too. ;)

Though, Gus was just awake at midnight and he might not actually wake up until four so... I should probably actually go to bed.

jmac

there are things that parents say that I don’t understand. My kid loves sleeping. And will sleep longer than me. And still nap.

I know this is abnormal. So I like to think that I’ve taught her good sleeping practices.

Catija

I have a 3-1/2 year old and a 15-month old. The latter doesn't sleep through the night yet. :D

jmac

But I’m probably just super lucky.

My daughter just turned 4.

Catija

8:30 AM

I bet four is nice. I'll bet five and six are even better.

Magisch

my coworker is raising twins, they're 4 years now

jmac

Yeah, my wife loves the young baby period. She’s enamored with babies. And I get it. But they’re way cooler when they start being able to function and interact as independent beings.

Magisch

he said he didn't have a full nights sleep for the first 2 years

jmac

Don’t get me wrong, babies are super cute, but they need to be since you’ve got to do everything for them.

Catija

SLEEP. Have a great rest of your trip, @jmac and all that. Happy Friday @Magisch and Shabbat shalom, @YaakovEllis :D

Magisch

8:32 AM

good night :)

JAD

good night

jmac

It’s less the sleep, it’s more the intense period of “I never imagined how much work children are” phase where you break down as an adult and are reborn a parent.

(That said less sleep is a large part of that)

Yaakov Ellis

@Catija שבת שלום ומבורך

djsmiley2k TMW

Mooooooooorning.

So two nights ago the 3yr old threw up all over his bed

last night

the 6 yr old did the same ¬_¬

well, she managed to get it msotly on a pile on the floor, but still :S

Gimby

8:51 AM

My brother and me were kings of doing that three times in a night, so be glad it's only once ;)

My mother still guilt trips me from time to time with it.

djsmiley2k TMW

lol

V2Blast

9:23 AM

Hello hello

I noticed earlier tonight that the interface for suggested/"autocompleted" tags (i.e. what appears when you start typing in the tag field while editing a post's tags) looks different. Is that a recent change? Has anyone mentioned it in a post anywhere?

Gimby

I don't really spot anything different. But that may just be my shoddy memory.

V2Blast

9:46 AM

It's definitely very slightly different. Previously, the number of questions that the suggested/autocompleted tag was on had a multiplication symbol (or an "x" or similar) displayed before the number. The font may also be slightly different but I can't tell...

this post has a screenshot of before the change, for comparison:

7

Q: What's with the tagging limitations in the mobile app?

Normally, when you ask a question you can begin typing a tag, and you will receive autocomplete suggestions based on existing tags. For example, the tag question-quality: The system does not only give you suggestions based on primary tags, it also gives you suggestions based on tag synonyms. F...

I think the old interface also displayed a question mark icon linking to the tag info only when hovering over a particular tag; now the question mark is displayed by default over all the suggested tags.

It's Over

10:19 AM

JMac!

I remember . . . well, I don't remember anything after a dull sleep

user1306322

@jmac these days ♡ feels more suitable :p

I'm voting to reopen this question as it is no offering a job — moslem770 7 mins ago

we shouldn't confuse an unpaid request for help with a job I guess

djsmiley2k TMW

10:36 AM

rofl.

user1306322

10:54 AM

I took the hexagon and ran with it

0

Q: Add an immediately visible indication that a user is a staff member or an employee of SE

With the recent change in the moderator privilege distribution among staff members, not everyone gets an immediately visible diamond symbol next to their name. Hovering over a user card is not the best solution. Not everyone knows that this feature exists, and sometimes employees don't fill out ...

feature-request user-card stack-exchange-team

also, 2020 is the year of "show, don't tell"

BlueSoul

clicks the link

user1306322

licks the clink :s

tastes like copper, mleh

BlueSoul

notices that the proposal is suggesting replacing the new user thing with some more relevant info

here, have a +1

user1306322

well, it's totally useless and not true for staff members who post on meta

they're not "new contributors"

why they didn't fix this by now I have no idea

BlueSoul

exactly.

Furthermore, the "new contributor" thing has always been a little worrisome.

It is just too unsettling close to the idea of implementing a daily downvote cap.

user1306322

11:06 AM

eh even though it's one of the "welcoming" features, I think it can be a useful reminder to not spook off newbies if you're in a bad mood

I don't think it does more harm than it does good

BlueSoul

you should focus on not spook of other users if you are in a bad mood.

Journeyman Geek

11:22 AM

@user1306322 some are 😁

BlueSoul

taken from some ads I found online...

Is this Captain ~~Amer~~ SharePoint?

Andras Deak

I can already hear the pen of the Disney lawyers scratching paper furiously...

terdon

@jmac great to see you around and thank you for that comment. I have no idea if it will be heard, but it's great that it was said.

Rubiksmoose

2:10 PM

@BlueSoul Where the heck did you get this XD

user1306322

I thought about editing the example to have a hexagon near the username but the font is so small that the shape looks like a circle, and that's bad

also I think we've been living a lie all along - the real diamond is this ◆ and ♦ which is given to mods is actually a rhombus or something

fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/29eb/index.htm is it a "black lozenge"?

♔ ♕ ♖ ♗ ♘ ♙ ♚ ♛ ♜ ♝ ♞ ♟ ♠ ♡ ♢ ♣ ♤ ♥ ♦ ♧

Jon Ericson

@Shadow9 Business. Met my boss and three people who work for me now, apparently. Also did a code interview for a frontend developer. I believe I fooled him into thinking I knew something about JavaScript.

JAD

@JonEricson isn't that generally the interviewee's task? Fooling others into believing you know stuff?

Jon Ericson

@jmac I was planning to, but then I got a bout of gingivitis. (Did I do that right?)

Journeyman Geek

@JAD All the world is a stage

Jon Ericson

2:21 PM

@JAD How do you think I passed my interview?

JAD

¯\(°_o)/¯

user1306322

what about ⚕ Staff of Aesculapius and ⚚ Staff of Hermes? Both already have "staff" in the name

JAD

it's a bit small

Journeyman Geek

Said that actress to the high priest...

JAD

@JourneymanGeek that's why the pope's hat is so big?

Journeyman Geek

2:24 PM

@JAD I'll reserve judgement :D

Sonic the Anonymous Hedgehog

@double-beep Hey, I've noticed that you've been going around and editing links in FAQs from absolute full-form links to relative short-form links. We've had complaints from staff about not having documented posts about large cleanups like these. Before you continue, could you please document your effort somewhere, to allow for community discussion over it and stop potential staff complaints? Thanks!

Personally, I prefer full-form links over short-form links as it's easy to know from the status bar mouseover of what they're actually linking to, without having to memorize post IDs. Also, there have been glitches with relative links not appearing in the Linked bar. It would have been much nicer if you discussed this with the community before proceeding with such edits.

double-beep

@SonictheAnonymousHedgehog I wasn't aware of that and my main intention was updating the (quite obsolete) images. I won't do that again. Thanks.

user1306322

maybe an orange diamond? idk

probably better to just use another symbol in the same color

well this is the winner imo

terdon

2:40 PM

Speaking of which, @double-beep, could you please either undo your edit here or make it link to the current policy: meta.stackexchange.com/a/342363/203101

Also, hi, long time no see!

Sonic the Anonymous Hedgehog

@terdon The edit is correct. The "current policy" you link to simply links back to the one they added.

Yaakov Ellis

@user1306322 what we really need is a little 🦄 svg

Journeyman Geek

@user1306322 Its mainly meta that's confusing...

@YaakovEllis ... actually....

:D

that makes sense. :D

Sonic the Anonymous Hedgehog

@YaakovEllis Sadly, that icon doesn't render on Windows 8 systems...

Journeyman Geek

@SonictheAnonymousHedgehog hm, you need to upgrade :D

Sonic the Anonymous Hedgehog

2:47 PM

I bet you a lot of people who formerly ran Windows 7 and have an aversion to Windows 10's data collection practices and legacy omissions will install Windows 8 to get around these...

BlueSoul

@Rubiksmoose since you asked....

Yaakov Ellis

@SonictheAnonymousHedgehog is a little unicorn

Journeyman Geek

shrug and are too lazy to turn them off.

BlueSoul

@Rubiksmoose I found it here: webcon.com/platform/everyone-benefits

user1306322

we already have the multi-size favicon we could use for staffers meta.stackexchange.com/content/Sites/stackexchangemeta/img/…

Journeyman Geek

2:48 PM

also if its a SVG it would render anywhere

user1306322

idk if you can embed favicons as <img>

meta.stackexchange.com/content/Sites/stackexchangemeta/img/… or the larger logo for high resolution displays :p

BlueSoul

@Rubiksmoose and a quick reverse image search show that this is the original artist: digieves.com/project/webcon-superhero

Rubiksmoose

@BlueSoul Thanks!

user1306322

@user400654 might be your time to shine with the 🚽 suggestion :D

BlueSoul

@Rubiksmoose you won't thank me anymore after you see what I just posted in the Not A Bar room :P

terdon

2:54 PM

@SonictheAnonymousHedgehog Oh! Duh. I got completely confused, you're quite right. Sorry, @double-beep, my bad!

Rubiksmoose

@BlueSoul WHY?! XD

lol

user1306322

�

Is it a moderator� Is it staff� Who knows�

double-beep

@terdon o/

curious

→ 46 messages moved to Chimney

John Dvorak

@user1306322 upgrade your operating system or click the username

Sonic the Anonymous Hedgehog

3:08 PM

@JourneymanGeek Spam account: meta.stackexchange.com/users/709159/trueketobostuk

Rob

3:20 PM

@YaakovEllis There is the emoji diamond 💎, which seems best represented by the Unicode 💎

Journeyman Geek

3:42 PM

@Rob there's something to be said for clean, standard, visual simplicity...

It's Over

Like, "hello"

Andras Deak

3:58 PM

Has anyone linked Shog's new thread yet? twitter.com/shog9/status/1230668527738048512

9

Magisch

is it depressing

Andras Deak

Of course. But also liberating.

does CPO stand for Chief Popcorn Officer?

Magisch

chief product officer

Andras Deak

nah, it has to be popcorn

Magisch

iirc, my knowledge of acronyms is lacking

Journeyman Geek

4:00 PM

Well Acronymns are not always standard

Andras Deak

TLAs FTW

Journeyman Geek

and there's... some degree of reorganisation going on I suspect

Magisch

> I ain't gonna name any names here, but... Those of you who had the opportunity, the COMPLETELY UNDESERVED PRIVILEGE, of getting to listen to advice from Robert... Those of you who heard it and ignored it... Trampled it underfoot and turned on him.

Take a hard look at your lives.

jesus christ shog is on fire

Journeyman Geek

I think the burn is elsewhere :D

Magisch

This is a pretty rough burn though

getting lightly scolded by shog tends to make one reconsider life choices

that is ... a lot more explicit

Andras Deak

4:03 PM

I've been asking myself how it happened that Shog and Robert got fired right before this change. It just doesn't add up. Now with Shog's explicit finger I know I'm right to be confused, and there's no reason to trust the change.

Magisch

my completly unproven and speculative view is that the new product officer took stock after they fired shog and had a "shit they were right and we're looking like complete asses right now" moment, so now they're pivoting somewhat

Andras Deak

that's an almost unrealistically good-faith interpretation...

Journeyman Geek

@Magisch My view is a bit... more complicated than that. And apparently I think people are brighter than they are :D

Magisch

completly unproven and speculative, like I said

I assume it because I don't see an endgame plan otherwise

Andras Deak

I don't mind unproven speculation. I'm more concerned about likelihoods.

@Magisch rhetoric the masses to submission, stall until the company is sold?

Magisch

4:06 PM

brass tax I don't think the management is intelligent or competent enough to pull one over with 4d chess like that on people, so I choose to go with hanlon's razor

no conspiracy, just bias and incompetence

Andras Deak

all they need is to postpone every strike and other protest

Journeyman Geek

I think that change was coming was obvious, and some folks were trying to consolidate their positions and getting rid of voices that were troublesome

Mad Scientist

@Magisch This is encouraging to some degree, but not all that far. The CPO is entirely new, so we'll see what she does in the future. Firing Shog and Robert happened under the current CEO, so even though he wasn't there for the original mess, he's tied to the later mess

Journeyman Geek

@AndrasDeak a delayed strike means more time to organise, and more anger

Magisch

the stock market isn't dumb, and nor are the analysts from banks that prep IPOs or consult on sales

Andras Deak

4:07 PM

@JourneymanGeek that's "fine" (as in understandable). What doesn't add up is then claiming to go on the same path that the troublesome voices suggested.

Magisch

when everyone of us can see exactly what is going on, they can too

Journeyman Geek

@AndrasDeak only you can't stop the signal :D

Andras Deak

@Magisch meh, I wouldn't bet that any of this is visible from the outside

Magisch

you think an analyst whose whole paycheck is to analyse companies for sale or IPO wouldn't look below the surface?

Journeyman Geek

@AndrasDeak what's really telling is whose tone changed.

Andras Deak

4:08 PM

@Magisch I have no idea what money people do. How would a non-tech person who's never seen the network "look below the surface"?

user400654

🚽

Journeyman Geek

@AndrasDeak ooh

FOR ALL MY SINS... I WAS A BUSINESS MAJOR

Andras Deak

@JourneymanGeek directed replies, please :P

@JourneymanGeek as if you didn't have enough on your rap sheet already

Magisch

I don't think they have a nefarious endgame here

Andras Deak

How nefarious is "sell the company at all cost"?

Journeyman Geek

4:10 PM

So on a really basic level - you look at the strengths, weaknesses, opportunities and threats of a company, and what the growth and profit prospects of various businesses are.

Magisch

people are maybe well intentioned or maybe self aggrandizing but I don't think they're capable of grand-scale deception, because if they were, they'd have done it before now

Journeyman Geek

The problem is all this is subjective

The community can be seen as a weakness or a strength.

Magisch

anyways, I await what they'll do in the next weeks

Andras Deak

@JourneymanGeek do you think a complete outsider would try to evaluate "the community" as an asset? I'm skeptical (but as I said I don't know how business people think)

Journeyman Geek

our "12 million" SO users is certainly an opportunity

Magisch

4:11 PM

maybe the new product officer came in and gave them all the dressing down of a lifetime and it getting things to shape up

Journeyman Geek

@AndrasDeak That's a great question

Magisch

might have even been the board insisting someone from outside coming in

Andras Deak

The community is intangible. You can't easily quantify it. If you're unfamiliar with the network you don't even think to think about its existence.

Magisch

if that's in prep for an IPO (most certainly is) then that isn't even necessarily bad for us specifically

Journeyman Geek

@AndrasDeak on the other hand, that's probably the one defining chararecteristic of a site like that.

Magisch

4:12 PM

Everything you hear about stack's business model is how trust based it is

it's supposed to be this thing devs like so much they'll convince their companies to use it

Andras Deak

@JourneymanGeek yes, but from an outsider business perspective I'd think that's more like counting cattle. Engaging new users, anyone? That's nothing to do with content curation and meta, which the whole kerfuffle is about.

user400654

I think at this point i'd strongly consider turning down an offer to a company that uses teams.

Andras Deak

When outsiders think "oh yeah, SO the community site that helps millions do their jobs each day" I don't think they think about power-users. They think about the existing knowledge and maybe about traffic.

Journeyman Geek

@AndrasDeak erf. I don't think I like pain enough to try again

I really hated my management Major :D

Andras Deak

@JourneymanGeek ugh :P

Journeyman Geek

4:14 PM

Flunked that module :D. Then retook it and "cheated" legally :D

Andras Deak

now there's an oxymoron

Journeyman Geek

@AndrasDeak so.. we need to do a case study