Tavern on the Meta

Yaakov Ellis

6:00 PM

Ok, I'm back from dinner. Did I miss anything?

Magisch

the post on MSO

but you probably knew it was coming

rene

Something about post on the wrong Meta, nothing unusual or we can't handle ..

Yaakov Ellis

@Magisch 😉

Magisch

I wrote an answer but might not post it

you know how you sometimes let out all of the cartharthic rants into a notepad and then don't save it

Yaakov Ellis

@Magisch I know all about that

Andras Deak

6:05 PM

I don't. If I bothered typing it up I might as well post it :P

Magisch

;)

Andras Deak

then again I only have regular rants, and rarely

Yaakov Ellis

I hope y'all appreciate that the CEO is actually on meta and answering in comments. Shouldn't be taken for granted. I know that it still counts for nothing if there is no follow-through. But still…

2

terdon

@YaakovEllis absolutely. Whether we like what he has to say or not is a separate issue. The fact that he's there should be appreciated.

Andras Deak

@YaakovEllis as with the CTO's apology most people seem to cautiously take it as a step in the right direction :)

Bryan Krause

6:07 PM

@YaakovEllis We do.

Yaakov Ellis

About MSO/MSE for the post. Please don't get too hung up on it. Was deliberation and arguments made in each direction. If you don't want to reply on MSO, just reply on MSE. It will be read as well.

8

Andras Deak

I'd be surprised if there were a significant group who were hung up on that

Magisch

@YaakovEllis You can probably forgive us for not being optimistic still, but it's definitely a start.

Bryan Krause

@YaakovEllis I appreciated that it was cross-posted to MSE immediately, rather than after some uproar. Of course that won't make everyone happy but nothing ever will - it was at least apparent that there was a conversation about it.

Yaakov Ellis

@Magisch I understand why it is hard to be optimistic. This is step 1 out of many. But hopefully it is a step in the right direction

Magisch

6:09 PM

If it's actually followed up on

Sonic the Anonymous Hedgehog

@YaakovEllis Can you please post that last sentence as a comment on my MSO answer?

Yaakov Ellis

@SonictheAnonymousHedgehog link to answer please? I am lazy

Andras Deak

@Magisch as with the CTO's apology

Sonic the Anonymous Hedgehog

33

A: A Note To Meta on my 2020 Kickoff Blog Post

I have a small question: why was the decision made to put the announcement here, instead of on Meta Stack Exchange? Putting it here has the effect of shutting out users who participate elsewhere in Stack Exchange, but don't participate on Stack Overflow or don't have enough reputation to qualify ...

(Sorry, I didn't read the back transcript, and thought your message was a direct result of that answer there)

Magisch

@AndrasDeak on a extremely cautiously optimistic note joel hadn't posted on meta in years

Sonic the Anonymous Hedgehog

6:11 PM

@YaakovEllis Some context: We used to be able to get comments from the higher-up very quickly, and over the previous years we've learned to take those for granted. The fact that this is changing is unsettling to many people who want a return to those times.

Magisch

maybe the new CEO has gotten into his groove and will start a trend

not that I'll hold out hope but the good thing about rock bottom is there's not a lot farther down you can go

2

Yaakov Ellis

@SonictheAnonymousHedgehog done

Andras Deak

@Magisch Or, hypothetically, following George's speculation, the new CEO has no issue saying one thing and doing another. Which we shall see of course, not trying to nay-say here.

Yaakov Ellis

@Magisch that's what we are hoping for.

Sonic the Anonymous Hedgehog

@YaakovEllis Thanks!

Magisch

6:13 PM

@AndrasDeak right, we can of course assume the worst. But right now it's better to assume nothing and let his actions following speak

not like there's anything else we can really do

Sonic the Anonymous Hedgehog

Also, some general context about me: when I ask why, I'm often looking for a detailed explanation as to why exactly; many others just use that word in a not-so-literal sense, but I do often mean it literally. Just thought you'd know for future cases.

Andras Deak

@Magisch As of Shog's sacking I don't feel like I have a horse in this race. And I always like to guess. Anticipate, not assume.

Yaakov Ellis

@SonictheAnonymousHedgehog Change in this is in my opinion kind of inevitable. The messaging surrounding this has of course been pretty bad.

Magisch

@SonictheAnonymousHedgehog We used to feel like we were on a level with the higher ups

that you could ping joel in a comment and get him to read it and reply implies a certain level of equal footing

Sonic the Anonymous Hedgehog

At the very least it's not like some other companies (e.g. United Airlines) where emails to the CEO go straight to customer support

Yaakov Ellis

6:16 PM

@SonictheAnonymousHedgehog well, you have me. And if you make your case to me, I can get things looked at.

Magisch

You probably have more impact then the entire PR department right now

Andras Deak

that doesn't exactly spell "job security" now :PP

Yaakov Ellis

@AndrasDeak I'll keep my current job title, thanks

Andras Deak

And you should! We <3 the two people who code ;)

Yaakov Ellis

@AndrasDeak FYI: more than 25 people have committed to master in the main StackOverflow repo on our git in the last two weeks. (And there are many other repos).

5

Tinkeringbell

6:28 PM

Yay, fun stat!

Andras Deak

@YaakovEllis nice :)

rene

7:09 PM

@YaakovEllis those 25, was that before or after a code review from Nick?

Sonic the Anonymous Hedgehog

Conspiracy theory: the decision to post on MSO was to get people to sign up for Teams, because Teams users are exempt from the 5-rep requirement to post on MSO... </sarcasm>

Andras Deak

I admire your persistence in being annoyed by this tiny thing of all things

Mithical

Featuring it on MSO vs featuring it on MSE is a huge difference.

I don't see stuff featured on SO. I don't use SO. But I'm a user of the network who's... pretty well engaged.

Andras Deak

but if things turn for the worst they wouldn't want the CEO to go down to 1 rep ;)

Mithical

Stuff featured on MSE shows up on SO. Stuff featured on MSO does not show up on SE.

Yaakov Ellis

7:16 PM

@Mithical so please go to the MSE post and answer there

Mithical

@YaakovEllis Sure, it's appreciated that it was at least cross-posted to MSE. Without that, I never would have even known about the post in the first place is my point.

user400654

i mean

it woulda been mentioned here

and you're here all the time

Andras Deak

it was mentioned here

Mithical

Don't get all logical on me now I'm being angry

curious

@Mithical I almost missed it too

Mithical

7:22 PM

4

A: A Note To Meta on my 2020 Kickoff Blog Post

Prashanth, thank you for posting here. I did not expect you to engage with the community, but it is certainly the right thing to do. I hope you have a good experience doing so. Let me address your question: where do you see the network going in the next five years, and what do you think shou...

This is spot-on.

Sonic the Anonymous Hedgehog

@Mithical Definitely appreciate its impartiality as well.

Tinkeringbell

7:36 PM

@Magisch I'll start reading now ;)

Tinkeringbell

7:52 PM

Handling a flag on one of those really old duplicates, that have the link embedded in the post and an empty banner as a result... anyone know a good post explaining that? My search skills are failing me...

nvm... found a comment.

That'll have to do then.

Mithical

Huh... my view vote totals extension isn't working on MSO.

Rubiksmoose

@Tinkeringbell I swear there was a post about that...

But I'm not finding it either.

Magisch

deep breath

now I feel better :D

Tinkeringbell

@Rubiksmoose There was an answer to the new post notices post with screenshots of the problem, and that linked to a comment underneath a different answer that explained why it was the way it was...

Yeah, we know about this. Can be bydesign or declined. The issue (discussed elsewhere) is that for really old duplicates we used to inline the duplicate post links. Subsequently we record them in their own db table. But for posts preceding this the inline links exist. And for [reasons] we are unable to extract the duplicate links and delete the inlining from 100% of them. So these will look like your screenshots - the post notice just says that there is a duplicate, but the links are part of the question text. — Yaakov Ellis ♦ Nov 25 '19 at 11:25

Mithical

@Magisch I left a polite rant as well. :) It's cathartic.

Tinkeringbell

8:02 PM

I actually had a pretty nice discussion about stuff that wasn't MSE for once... now that's really a life changer ;)

Magisch

@Mithical I left the less polite version of that on my pc

;)

user168476

@BlueSoul I doubt it, from everything I can tell, it's pretty much going to be the same as their usual flagship full games. Kinda like how the Mario Kart mobile game is full of microtransactions, but Mario Kart on the Switch isn't.

user168476

(Also, I am SUPER excited for Animal Crossing for Switch, as well.)

Rubiksmoose

@Ash Pokemon Go -> Pokemon Let's Go is another decent example as well.

Dan is Fiddling by Firelight

Shogs comments on Twitter last week have implied that what we view as cathartic rants or any other large scale expressions of dissent on meta are only leading to management turning the thumbscrews on CMs down even tighter.

Tinkeringbell

8:17 PM

If Animal Crossing ends up having some kind of multiplayer/friend mode... and people end up wanting to play together, I'm game! :D

Dan is Fiddling by Firelight

It's why I've decided to just fiddle; apparently trying to do anything about the problems ends up counter productive after passing through managements reality distortion field.

user400654

it's better to speak out constructively than to not speak out at all, even if the result ultimately ends up counter productive.

Tinkeringbell

@DanisFiddlingbyFirelight I... wouldn't really think no arguments can be made here. I took those Tweets more as a 'please don't hold it against CMs if they have to communicate some policy from upstairs'...

So yes... what user says... constructive is better than not at all

user400654

it's unfortunate that real people get caught in the crossfire, but the alternative is to... do nothing... which does nothing.

PM 2Ring

@GeorgeStocker I appreciate that brevity is the soul of wit, but your answer is in another castle. I have no idea what you're talking about, and I'm not inclined to watch a video to find out. Would it be possible to put a TL;DR or at least a hint or two into your answer?

user400654

8:23 PM

also maybe of importance, in terms of mso vs mse, all of those mso comments are being archived

George Stocker

@PM2Ring The blog post mentiones their "why at the center of everything we do", so I asked what that "why" was. Their reference and my reference are to the same source: "Start with Why" by Simon Sinek. 20 minutes watching that video will very likely be the most valuable time you invest today.

PM 2Ring

@GeorgeStocker Oh, ok. I probably won't watch the video (I have to ration my 18 gig/month), but I'll think about it.

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