Tavern on the Meta

Rob

11:02

@ShadowTheBurningWizard, there's at least a few good suggestions here: gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/…

Shadow9

I used to play Magic The Gathering a lot

With a good friend who died at 18... So it reminds me of him. In a good way, no worry. :)

But no... My name now isn't related to any of this.

Mithical

That is a serious eyebrow.

Rob

@Shadow9 ⬇️

Eye of Sauron Yule Log Five Hours

►

Shadow9

@Mithical thanks? ;)

@Rob nah

Pupil smaller

Andras Deak

11:18

@Rob log 5 hours is around 1.6 hours. Not so bad.

Rob

Needs a makeover

Mithical

@Rob Either this person has really short eyelashes or I have really long eyelashes.

djsmiley2k in darkness

I have amazing eyelashes, according to most females

/me shrugs

Shadow9

11:40

@djsmiley2kindarkness that's... Good? :P

Rob

Apparently 10mm is average, but that's not been my experience.

On the subject of eyeballs, the colossal squid has the largest eyeball:

I guess they need to sea in the dark

JNat

@SonictheAnonymousHedgehog gone

Tinkeringbell

@Mithical Looks pretty normal to me, even with the make-up. ;)

JNat

11:55

@Shadow9 oops... shoulda looked at this ping before those two ^^

not much I can do now that I've destroyed 'em both

Magisch

@Mithical be careful that you don't lash out ;)

Shadow9

12:13

@JNat no trace of their history? Well no big deal, that wasn't a very smart spammer so easy to catch next time as well. :)

@It's not Over until @It's Over ;)

umm... @Yaakov is this your doing?

It's... not bad, but very different from anything else related to deleted accounts.

Mithical

It's the same thing that Shog did... three years ago?

Yaakov Ellis

@Shadow9 I just used what was done previously

Shadow9

Usually there will be the generic name (user[xxx]) grayed out

Yaakov Ellis

if you can find me something better to use, I am game

Mithical

No, four years ago.

Shadow9

12:22

huh

Never saw it before. lol

@YaakovEllis thanks! Might post a feature request then, and will ping you here? :)

Yaakov Ellis

ok

Tinkeringbell

Departed sounds a bit dead, tbh ...

But it works ;)

Yaakov Ellis

I agree. Again, find me something better, that preferably is reusable, and I will use that

Tinkeringbell

Feature request sounds good :) I'm curious to see what people will come up with.

Yaakov Ellis

here is your chance to shine

Tinkeringbell

12:25

If people don't beat me to it ;) I have code to refactor, and M&Ms to eat, first :P

Shadow9

I have two bugs to fix, and API to implenent

Tinkeringbell

I vote we dump writing the feature request on @Mith ;)

Shadow9

Which of them? ;)

Tinkeringbell

Oh, both :P

Shadow9

lol they'll fight over it :D

Mithrandir24601

12:30

@Shadow9 I mean, I have a sword and a staff - can't we just say that I win by default? :P

BlueSoul

you.... may want to change that to "Deleted", "Removed" or anything like that...

terdon

@Shadow9 where's that from?

Shadow9

@Mithrandir24601 pffft. @Mithical can dodge both, and hit you with Bicycle Reverse Attack.

BlueSoul

Departures (2008 film)

Departures (Japanese: おくりびと, Hepburn: Okuribito, "one who sends off") is a 2008 Japanese drama film directed by Yōjirō Takita and starring Masahiro Motoki, Ryōko Hirosue, and Tsutomu Yamazaki. The film follows a young man who returns to his hometown after a failed career as a cellist and stumbles across work as a nōkanshi—a traditional Japanese ritual mortician. He is subjected to prejudice from those around him, including from his wife, because of strong social taboos against people who deal with death. Eventually he repairs these interpersonal connections through the beauty and dignity of his...

Mithical

Shadow9

12:35

@terdon example

@Mithical no sound :(

Mithical

@Shadow9 it's just a pout, no sound needed

Shadow9

@BlueSoul IMO just don't show it at all. No point except to say "There was a mod here, but you can't even know their name"

@Mithical oh lol

Tinkeringbell

@BlueSoul Congratulations, you now get to write the feature request for that ;)

Shadow9

BTW, yesterday I realized there's a way to see all SO developers in one place: stackoverflow.com/jobs/companies/stack-overflow

(under "People")

terdon

@Shadow9 oh. Ouch, yes. That looks like someone died.

Shadow9

12:44

Nah... there isn't a candle. But agree it should be changed.

terdon

Why do we want something like that anyway? It doesn't seem to be applied automatically.

askubuntu.com/election

4 of those have resigned, but aren't shown as such.

Mithical

It's not for resignations, it's for deleted accounts.

terdon

Ah!

Shadow9

@terdon ^^

terdon

I see why it's needed then.

Shadow9

12:45

Resigned mod won't have a diamond.

@terdon why? What's the added value?

Magisch

until now when a former mod deleted their account the HTML on the page would break

Mithical

...including now, it's still a manual fix

Shadow9

@Magisch no, it used to show broken image and fixed years ago to show that image instead.

Mithical

@Mithical one-off fix. The results are actually stored as html text in a db field. Changing it programmatically is not justified at this point. To fix it, we would have to add logic to the user deletion to parse all election results for their Id and replace it with something else. Doable but not worth it right now. — Yaakov Ellis ♦ 43 mins ago

Shadow9

25 mins ago, by Mithical

No, four years ago.

Journeyman Geek

12:47

@Shadow9 not really accruate or up to date I think

terdon

@Shadow9 Depends on what happens without it. If it just shows the generic grey user face, then fine. But it used to show broken images.

Presumably, the DB lookup fails, so...

Shadow9

@JourneymanGeek why? I did check (quickly), didn't spot anyone missing or "extra"

Journeyman Geek

I know at least one person in a similar role to those listed not there, and one of those people was mentioned on twitter as looking for a job

@Shadow9 Julia is still on it

Shadow9

@JourneymanGeek oh... yeah. Well, still better than no list at all... :)

@terdon no lookup, see Yaakov's comment above.

> stored as html text in a db field

djsmiley2k in darkness

@Tinkeringbell "Gone to the Fjords!"

Tinkeringbell

12:51

@djsmiley2kindarkness Now you get to write the feature request ;)

djsmiley2k in darkness

:D

Shadow9

lol

djsmiley2k in darkness

"Dreaming of electric sheep"

terdon

@Shadow9 yes, which will require a lookup :)

Mithical

"gone fishing"

terdon

12:55

ex parrot?

Mithical

[user deleted]

BlueSoul

13:06

████████████ ?

or even better

[Ultraviolet Clearance Required]

djsmiley2k in darkness

@Mithical tbh this is the best solution, as it's the most factual.

BlueSoul

@Shadow9 does Jisoo actually work at SE? Never heard that name before, no profile found. Only a reference to a blog where she talks about being an apprentice. In 2016.

I am not quite sure that page is up-to-date

rene

13:21

@BlueSoul jisoo is retutned when running this: meta.stackexchange.com/questions/95625/…

BlueSoul

yep... she has two accounts.

or there is an impersonator

jisoo ♦, Cambridge Street, Cambridge, MA, USA

462 8 14

Jisoo Shin, Boston, MA, USA

1

^ @YaakovEllis could you tell her that she probably have a left over account? Or someone tried to impersonate her

both profiles point to the same blog, so they should be the same person.

Yaakov Ellis

Jisoo is a developer at SO. I suspect that the second account was one that she opened to test things out as a user who is not an employee.

Shadow9

aka "sock" :)

balpha got one too

balpha sock

1

;)

Yaakov Ellis

I have one as well. I dare y'all to find it

Shadow9

Quick trivia: who's Jeff's sock?

John Dvorak

13:32

Now we just need to find out if the two accounts have ever interacted in an illicit way.

Tinkeringbell

@YaakovEllis Is it on MSE too?

Shadow9

@YaakovEllis easy. On your feet.

Tinkeringbell

Or do I ask Cody?

Yaakov Ellis

@Shadow9 I don't think that balpha would share his socks with me

Journeyman Geek

Absolutely no prizes for finding mine ._.

Tinkeringbell

13:33

Also... That's a very mean distraction. I should be working.

Shadow9

@Tinkeringbell woof

Yaakov Ellis

@Tinkeringbell so should I

Journeyman Geek

I on the other hand, am off till thursday night :D

Tinkeringbell

@YaakovEllis Isn't this part of the job? :P

At least for you?

Yaakov Ellis

@Tinkeringbell that is how I justify it

Tinkeringbell

13:36

@JourneymanGeek There's only a few things that make me want to strangle puppies... jealousy is one ;)

Journeyman Geek

@Tinkeringbell I swapped thurday night for sat cause its a holiday for my chinese co-workers and its 12 hour night shifts :D

Tinkeringbell

Aww, we did tell you you're kinda too kind for this world, right? :P

Shadow9

@YaakovEllis this?

יעקב, Israel

1

Yaakov Ellis

nope. too easy. not me

Shadow9

:)

BlueSoul

13:38

@YaakovEllis oh, if it is hers, no problem. Just wanted to point out that it is there and probably either she forgot about it or someone else created it.

Yaakov Ellis

I let her know. I assume it is a legit test account. In case it is not, it will be taken care of

Shadow9

Found a ghost!

Ruach

1 2

Found the socks!

amazon.com/Gumball-Poodle-Donald-Trump-Socks/dp/B01CZHOXGM

!!/sock of Yaakov

SmokeDetector

@Shadow9 No such command 'sock'.

Shadow9

:(

y u no halp

Tinkeringbell

See, you're all way too distracting. Now I need to put a reminder somewhere to get this year's Alzheimer socks...

Shadow9

13:45

lol

Feature request: Stack Reminders

:D

Write a reminder, set date and time, and you'll get a reminder right into your inbox. ;)

PM 2Ring

I wonder... is it counted as illicit if the sock account casts a downvote on a post by the main account? I think it probably should be illicit.

Journeyman Geek

in theory, yes

In practice, anyone who sees will be monumentally baffled, and you can probably escape in the confusion

Or something

Andras Deak

14:05

@Shadow9 the company would probably introduce that with opt-out and a default reminder about the feature itself

Shadow9

@AndrasDeak of course

ColeValleyGirl

Why oh why has the theme for the website I'm converting from Drupal 7 to Drupal 8 changed the CSS for all the content types. I'm reduced to comparing it class by class.

Raedwald

@PM2Ring Using a sock-puppet to down-vote a main account could be used to "earn" badges.

BlueSoul

@AndrasDeak ^ also know as "How Pocket Camp became Pocket Picking Camp"

Tinkeringbell

@BlueSoul Is that your account in the background?

BlueSoul

14:19

@Tinkeringbell nope. Screen got from google.

But I know the game since a friend plays it

and I saw the ads for that paid membership

Tinkeringbell

:) I want to get the Animal Crossing game for the Switch in March...

BlueSoul

they are everywhere

@Tinkeringbell I am quite scared that some of the trash from the mobile game can make it to the actual game.

Tinkeringbell

We'll see... I usually wait for a few others to tell me a game is crap before I buy it anyways :P

BlueSoul

open the craft menu, a banner telling you that by paying you can speed up crafting.

open the cookie shop (and mind you, the cookie shop already is a premium shop) - another banner telling you about the "5cookies/month for only 7.99$!"

open the map, ads are even there.....

loading screens? MORE ADS!

Tinkeringbell

If I'm paying the 'regular' amount of around 50-60 euros for a Switch game, there better not be ads!

Rubiksmoose

14:25

@Tinkeringbell I've never played AC before but I'm intrigued with this one.

Tinkeringbell

@Rubiksmoose If you do get one, let me know what it's like if I don't have one yet by then :P

Rubiksmoose

@Tinkeringbell I will :)

Feeds

Tinkeringbell has added Rubiksmoose to the list of this room's owners.

PM 2Ring

@Raedwald Yes. It can also be used strategically to gain rep. Maybe I shouldn't explain the technique...

Tinkeringbell

@Feeds Yay, it worked! Everyone, please welcome Rubiksmoose as your new overlord! :D

7

rene

14:41

Welcome. And now get kicking I guess?

Rubiksmoose

That's why moose make natural ROs of course. We're born kicking ;-)

Andras Deak

*moos moos*

Rubiksmoose

:)

Stupid question: What does this answer mean about SFF being a "redirect site" and not an "actual Q/A" site?

Mithical

"fantasy.SE" redirects to "scifi.SE"

As in, the URL of Science Fiction & Fantasy is "scifi", but the subdomain "https://fantasy.stackexchange.com" redirects.

Rubiksmoose

Ah. Is it just me or is that point confusing? Maybe I'm just being silly but I read that point as saying that SFF wasn't listed in the all sites list. But it is. It just means that it isn't listed in the all sites list under its exact url?

terdon

14:56

@Rubiksmoose Not just you. I have no idea what that Q&A is trying to say.

Most sites have redirects and none have their own dedicated IP, with the possible exception of SO, as far as I know.

3

Q: Site not found: freebsd.stackexchange.com

Issuing the following commands returns the displayed results: $ ping -c 4 freebsd.stackexchange.com Pinging freebsd.stackexchange.com [151.101.129.69] with 32 bytes of data: Reply from 151.101.129.69: bytes=32 time=15ms TTL=56 Reply from 151.101.129.69: bytes=32 time=15ms TTL=56 Reply from 151....

support

Rubiksmoose

15:09

@terdon Well good to know I'm not the only one.

canon

So, was Jon chastising Shog for George's gofundme... or have I misinterpreted something?

BlueSoul

@canon ?

ColeValleyGirl

@canon You've misinterpreted something. Jon has contributed to George's gofundme for Shog.

Magisch

@JourneymanGeek in case you're worried about SU, you should probably skip the podcast

canon

> This isn’t exactly a protest resignation. I don’t need a GoFundMe page.

Magisch

15:11

they're talking about how they want to fix the nonsense of splitting disciplines into sites (that nobody cares that their question is for the wrong site, they just want an answer. They want to fix this in 2020)

Tinkeringbell

@canon That's about the fact that the GoFundMe is needed. Not that it's wrong from George to start it!

Journeyman Geek

@Magisch I read George's commentary of it

Magisch

@canon If he did he has a weird way of showing it considering his wife and him donated 500$ to it

ColeValleyGirl

@Magisch I look forward to the integration of Genealogy & Family History with StackOverflow :)

Rubiksmoose

@canon To me it seemed like Jon was saying "Shog needs this, please donate" lowkey.

George Stocker

15:12

I had initially read it as a slight as well; I've since come to realize it was a rhetorical flourish to show how bad this mini-layoffs affected people

Journeyman Geek

pretty much

canon

When I read it last week it seemed disparaging. I'm glad that's not the case.

George Stocker

latest I understand is 10-11 people were laid off from SO across all divisions

Shog and Robert being two from the CM team

Whether they were targetted layoffs or general 'pick two', I don't know

Rubiksmoose

:(

ColeValleyGirl

@GeorgeStocker Which is what you'd expect from a company being told by the bean-counters they need to tighten their belt.

Magisch

15:13

@ColeValleyGirl I think they'll merge the tech heavy developer focused sites into SO and prune the non-monetizable other ones.

and keep the rest

Journeyman Geek

@Magisch It seems vague enough to wait and see

canon

@Magisch gross

Magisch

but yeah doing it right after the hackathon is brutal

Journeyman Geek

But I think if SU gets actually merged into SO, or substancially changed, I'd probably hand in my diamond(s)

Disappointed in SE

@canon I read that as Jon implying that Shog does have a need for the GoFundMe (as opposed to himself)

Magisch

15:14

if someone did that to me i'd make a hobby of airing every piece of dirty laundry that I legally could for the next forever

Journeyman Geek

@Magisch I think Shog's better than that :/

Magisch

yeah

he always was better and more mature then a lot of us

George Stocker

@Rubiksmoose it's a tricky subject because as I understand it, SHog does need it -- but at the same time it's difficult to say that since that has a stigma attached to it

ColeValleyGirl

I don't think so -- the "non-monetizable other ones" can't be that expensive to run (at least when they have sufficient automation in place - which they'll develop for the big sites but which benefit the smaller ones as well) and their continued existence is 'proof' that SE inc are not just about teh money.

Journeyman Geek

@ColeValleyGirl THey're pretty low resource from what I heard

ColeValleyGirl

15:16

@GeorgeStocker Pick X that meet's the financial target.

Journeyman Geek

Most of the hardware infra (which is remarkably small) is for redundancy and performance, and the marginal cost of each site is pretty small

Disappointed in SE

@Magisch My more optimistic interpretation of that part of the podcast was that they will add ways to embed content from other SE sites. So something closer to what you can do yourself with the stackexchange.com tag filters than outright merging of the sites. But who knows

Magisch

@Rubiksmoose afterwards, he was much more explicit about it too: twitter.com/jlericson/status/1218801637482844161

3

BlueSoul

Jan 11 '18 at 9:17, by Derpy

@TelautonomousKitty still claiming that the Adventure Time clip with Jake explaining how laws came into existence is pretty on topic. But I won't link it after someone comments from the last time I did..

Magisch

@DisappointedinSE you're right, that could be the case

Journeyman Geek

15:18

I'll wait and see

No one's talked to us about what this means for our sites

terdon

@DisappointedinSE That would actually be welcome. This whole walled garden approach and making cross posting anathema doesn't make sense when there is so much overlap in scope between certain sites.

Disappointed in SE

The costs for the small sites are probably entirely employee time, mostly CMs. The technical costs are irrelevant when running alongside SO and the higher traffic sites

George Stocker

@JourneymanGeek You're holding out hope that they will?

Journeyman Geek

Nope

canon

@Magisch Thanks, I missed that tweet. Because twitter.

Magisch

15:19

@terdon I would love to see more integration options, tbh. But I'm not holding my breath

Journeyman Geek

But that also means, as always, I'll find out right as anyone does

PM 2Ring

@ColeValleyGirl They didn't just fire people though. They recently hired a new Chief Product Officer, Teresa Dietrich. stackoverflow.com/company/management

Journeyman Geek

maybe a little later

Magisch

I'm not capable of neutrally talking about that hire because I hate McKinsey and everything it represents with an irrational passion

Rubiksmoose

@GeorgeStocker Yeah I guess now that I think about it I'm not sure why Jon wrote it that way, but when I first read it it just seemed like a sly way to slip that in without having to be super explicit.

Journeyman Geek

15:21

At this point there's just so much shellshock and whiplash on SE's actions I literally think them going "We're merging SU into SO" on a blog or a podcast is how I'll find out

George Stocker

I mean, you say "McKinsey" and that's enough to have people go, "You mean the people the destroyed Toys R Us?"

ColeValleyGirl

@JourneymanGeek Yes, from my experience. 'My site' saw Robert Cartaino fairly frequently until we are up and running... Shog9 occasionally. Grace Note and ana in the early days. But nothing in some years. We're bumbling along -- would like more traffic but not at the expense of traffic (and Gh*d are there some rubbish forums out there that we're happy not to emulate).

Tinkeringbell

@GeorgeStocker "McKinsey", what's that?

Magisch

@GeorgeStocker You mean the very epitome of soulless profit driven consultants with no humanity, humility or temperance

Journeyman Geek

@Tinkeringbell Big US consulting company

Tinkeringbell

15:22

Big enough to be completely unknown over here ;)

Journeyman Geek

In the "We're going to go in and make as much money as possible, even if it kills the company" kinda way

Magisch

the CEO of JP morgan worked at mckinsey once afaik

Journeyman Geek

McKinsey & Company

McKinsey & Company is an American worldwide management consulting firm. McKinsey has published the McKinsey Quarterly since 1964, funds the McKinsey Global Institute research organization, publishes reports on management topics, and has authored influential books on management. McKinsey was founded in 1926 by James O. McKinsey in order to apply accounting principles to management. McKinsey died in 1937, and the firm was restructured several times, with the modern-day McKinsey & Company emerging in 1939. Marvin Bower is credited with establishing McKinsey's culture and practices in the 1930s based...

George Stocker

McKinsey is the pedigree you bring in when you need cash quickly.

They will do it, by hook or by crook.

Tinkeringbell

Sounds like something from the US, alright.

ColeValleyGirl

15:26

@PM2Ring So they see recruiting her as an investment, and CMs as a cost. No surprise there. Wonder if her salary adds up to the three CMs that left...

Magisch

@ColeValleyGirl if she's from mckinsey, it's probably a lot more

Journeyman Geek

Probably a lot more

Magisch

doubt she'll be going home with under 1.5m$ a year

terdon

@JourneymanGeek Oh wow.

Magisch

such luminary clients like the ICE and their work proposing ways to reduce deportation costs and work with saudi arabia to suppress the kashoggi killing

lovely company, really

terdon

15:27

charming, yes

Magisch

I need to stop before my sarcasm meter breaks

> McKinsey advised opioid makers on how to “turbocharge” sales of OxyContin, propose strategies "to counter the emotional messages from mothers with teenagers that overdosed" on OxyContin, and help opioid makers to circumvent regulation.

only the highest ethics

BlueSoul

@terdon yet embedding fixes anything if the rep and the accounts are still separate.

terdon

And this is the background they felt was best suited to a place like SE.

PM 2Ring

@ColeValleyGirl From stackoverflow.com/company/work-here/1988644/product-manager-qa Salary: $110,000 - $160,000

terdon

@BlueSoul Sorry, I can't parse that.

ColeValleyGirl

15:31

Let's not throw all the babies out with the bathwater -- if SE/SO (Gh*d knows what I should call them) recruit people who are effective at monetizing their product while public Q&A carries on as it is, I'm content with that. Until they stoop to practices I can't condone.

terdon

Until?

Rubiksmoose

@Magisch Oof. that's bad.

Journeyman Geek

Public Q&A isn't exactly carrying on as it is. ._.

terdon

I mean, let's not jump to conclusions. For all we know, Ms Dietrich is a wonderful person who left that company precisely because she had issues with the way they operated.

But it really doesn't bode well.

ColeValleyGirl

@PM2Ring I'm not familiar with US salaries, but here in the UK, that would be funded by terminating 3 CMs.

Journeyman Geek

15:32

And on that absolutely cheery note

good night

PM 2Ring

Teresa isn't a pointy-haired boss type. She knows tech. From linkedin.com/in/teresadg "Wonderful teacher. I thought i knew IP routing until i took her class and re learned it the right way. It was an A that i truly struggled for and had immense satisfaction as i learnt so much. She is also very good at understanding your questions and in explaining the answers."

Disappointed in SE

@PM2Ring product manager is something quite different than someone on the management team

BlueSoul

@terdon if they just give a way to embed content from a site into another, like listing SU questions inside SO.... won't help users to vote/curate since the rep and the accounts would still be separate

You would have a question on SO that you couldn't vote for, edit or curate in any way unless you go and collect some rep on SU too.

terdon

@BlueSoul Oh. OK, yes, but why would that be a problem? The curation can always happen on the home site. Or, you could mark those as being voteable/editable/curatable by anyone with enough rep on any of the sites the question appears on.

Magisch

> Furthermore, McKinsey advised Allstate Insurance to purposefully give low offers to claimants. The Huffington Post revealed that the strategy was to make claims "so expensive and so time-consuming that lawyers would start refusing to help clients."

All right, I'll stop with that now

BlueSoul

15:35

@terdon I was thinking about low-traffic sites like SharePoint that could benefit from a "SO users backdoor"

ColeValleyGirl

@terdon They haven't murdered any babies yet. Or agitated to kill kittens. In fact they haven't done anything that I haven't seen in companies I worked for (and/or couldn't afford to leave). Yes, "the community" here aren't used to commercial reality, but SE/So/whatever are living in that world.

BlueSoul

Giving an easy way for SO users to vote / reply on SharePoint.SE posts could help.

PM 2Ring

@DisappointedinSE Good point. So that page I linked back there probably applies to Meg Risdal's former position, not Teresa's. Sorry about that.

Yaakov Ellis

@JourneymanGeek thanks

terdon

@ColeValleyGirl The slander of Monica to the press crosses a big line for me, as does the firing of Shog with no warning. I'm not saying these aren't common practices, I am saying I don't want to be associated with entities that do such things, common though they may be.

Yaakov Ellis

15:38

If you want to work with me and are an awesome PM, please apply for that position.

3

Journeyman Geek

@YaakovEllis alas no. And they will be big shoes to fill

And your side of stuff is awesome. Just bleh.

3 to 4 months of dealing with increasingly confusing decisions from folks higher up

Gimby

"Your side stuff is awesome", that's a funny thing to drop into without prior context.

Journeyman Geek

Of 🙄

@YaakovEllis well the part of the company I was interested is shrinking, and a good chunk of people I would have loved to work with left or got fired

My site may or may not be merged into SO with no warning

So... I don't think it's business as usual

:/

ColeValleyGirl

@terdon Fair enough. I have views on the Monica debacle -- wouldn't have demodded her until and unless there was clear evidence she wouldn't comply with the new CoC (and definitely not without due process), but was uncomfortable with what she said in the TL and older posts. However, that's water under the bridge; she has an resolution of sorts: SE have said publically they don't believe she's a bigot and she has deciced not to pursue the reinstatement route.

terdon

@ColeValleyGirl oh, not the demodding. The talking to the press.

Journeyman Geek

15:47

@YaakovEllis so a little unfair to you personally, for me to say that but as an organization as a whole, trust and communication is definitely lacking, especially now.

terdon

And kicking Shog to the curb after everything he's done is just wrong.

8

Journeyman Geek

^ this

ColeValleyGirl

@terdon Firing Shog seems to me to be a simple business decision. With no warning? was it in line with US employment law? Wouldn't have been legal where I live but probable was in the US. Some gardening leave would have been good (with no access to the critical systems) if financial constraints were not dire... But we'll never know.

canon

@terdon At least they've made their position crystal clear with that action.

We don't have to agonize over where their heart is. Now we know.

terdon

@ColeValleyGirl we know enough. I'm sure it was legal, that's not really relevant. Legal or not, it certainly was callous.

And in clear contrast to how they handled the previous round of firings.

Luuklag

15:49

Hey guys, asking for your opinions here: Since when is asking for a transcribed version of a podcast, anywhere, thr same as a feature request to transcribe all podcasts

In regards to this Q: meta.stackexchange.com/questions/342639/…

Journeyman Geek

@ColeValleyGirl 'nothing personal'

ColeValleyGirl

@terdon Already acknowledged that was a mistake and a policy put in place to prevent it happening officially again. Pus the post after the legal agreement saying 'we understand she wasn't a bigot'. What else do you expect?

BlueSoul

@ColeValleyGirl I think we are back again to what I said yesterday about this.

yesterday, by BlueSoul

Sorry, I have reached a point when I strongly believe legal rights do not equal morality or ethics far ago. Saying that one was "legally allowed to do something" does not make a bad action any better in my eyes.

In that regards, @terdon seems to be on the same wavelength

Journeyman Geek

@ColeValleyGirl nearly anything can be justified as a 'business decision'

Just a stroke of the pen.

BlueSoul

@Luuklag didn't they started to do that for the other podcast series but stopped after the first 2-3 episodes?

terdon

15:52

@ColeValleyGirl expect? Nothing. They are who they are.

Journeyman Geek

Through most of this - Shog was one of the voices of reason. He kept folks going. He was clearly hurting through most of this

Luuklag

@BlueSoul those were the podcasts by Jon I think. That was a community effort I think?

ColeValleyGirl

@BlueSoul Corporations work on finances and legality not ethics, however we might hate it (and we do). We may hate it and express our disappintment, but we do need to understand that way of the world.

Disappointed in SE

@ColeValleyGirl They gutted the entire CM department, and removed a huge amount of institutional knowledge about the community management on SE. This does say something about what the company now values, and it's not the community

Journeyman Geek

Unicorn meta zoo

@DisappointedinSE it's been going on for years

terdon

15:54

@ColeValleyGirl of course. But that's not what we signed up for. We all know how corporations work. These folks claim to be better.

Journeyman Geek

I was hoping with Cat and Cesar it would finally be a reversal of fortunes

ColeValleyGirl

@JourneymanGeek Yes, and we need to understand why they're coming from there and present persuasive arguments and not just rant that things are changing.

Journeyman Geek

@ColeValleyGirl none seems forthcoming

BlueSoul

@Luuklag yep, don't know who made the transcripts. I was just pointing out that there was already an attempt to provide transcripts for the various podcast :P

Journeyman Geek

Actually no. At some point I'll just get fed up a d leave

Not sure where

I am unhappy cause I care.

Rubiksmoose

15:57

@ColeValleyGirl I'd agree. Understanding and accepting (eg being happy with) the changes are two different things though. I can understand why something is done, but still be vehemently against it. But if your goal is to change that thing, then yeah, understanding and persuasion is key.

ColeValleyGirl

@DisappointedinSE Valuing something by reducing the costs of moderation via automation of the big sitescan be a benefit to small sites without them noticing us. I hope we can keep flying under the radar.

Journeyman Geek

@Rubiksmoose well..if I cannot influence change, and I am unhappy, my only choice is to leave

Replacing SU will be hard though

Disappointed in SE

@ColeValleyGirl Shog was probably the most qualified person to automate some moderation tasks. So I'm not entirely buying that they will improve the CM workflow significantly, I suspect at the end we will simply have far less support from CMs entirely

Rubiksmoose

@JourneymanGeek Or wait is out and become increasingly unhappy as things go the way you don't want and crumble around you I suppose. But yeah. At some point everyone need to make a choice on how they want to spend their time and energy and what their goals are.

Journeyman Geek

@Rubiksmoose tup

@Rubiksmoose SU has been pretty stable so far

Not too sure what the future holds

Disappointed in SE

16:04

One thing e.g. I suspect might happen is that we actually do get the terrible ads they tested a while ago. And a Skeptics site with ads for pseudoscience might as well not exist at all

Rubiksmoose

@JourneymanGeek RPG has as well.

ColeValleyGirl

@DisappointedinSE And I agree, but I have been personally put in the position of 'letting go' a team that knew exactly that they were doing around a particular subject (and whose professional experience would have put into the shade the team we were Mandated to retain).

Located in the wrong place (a building that would recoup in one transaction 2/3 of the costs of acquiring a company); focused on supporting a set of CRM and billing tools that the powers that be have determined we don't need (rapid expansion via acquisition, 4 competing billing CRM/billing tools and this was the last we acquired); hundreds of miles from the location where the current IT director lived... no, seriously -- I don't believe he ever visited the site).

Irony: after several aborted projects, the relevant Billing and CRM products were rescusitated -- without effective support. The company has since been acquired by another company that is hell-bent on erasing all of the past.

djsmiley2k in darkness

16:27

@DisappointedinSE you don't need CM's if you've got no community

:/

Feeds

16:43

Scripting the Future of Stack

Prashanth Chandrasekar on January 21, 2020

As we enter a new decade, there are tremendous forces converging—cloud computing, big data, AI, ML, and an increasingly diverse group of young coders from around the world. Every day, millions of developers visit Stack Overflow to find information they need as they push these exciting new technologies forward. There has been a massive shift since my days as a computer engineering graduate. I was fascinated by the power of languages like Perl, but had only my teachers, classmates, and a few small web forums and mailing lists as a community to support my learning. The numbers below really put into perspective the impact that our community generates and the opportunities that lie ahead: …

PM 2Ring

A post from the CEO on MSO: meta.stackoverflow.com/q/393155/4014959

4

Disappointed in SE

16:56

@PM2Ring I'm very susprised nobody answered before me, it took almost 20 minutes since this was posted

user400654

meh

Tinkeringbell

@PM2Ring Cool, something to not moderate for once ;)

Magisch

@Tinkeringbell hey

I wrote an answer to that meta post, but I'm worried about how it reads. Can you read it and tell me if I'm going off the rails?

Tinkeringbell

Sure :)

PM 2Ring

From the blog post: "To be clear, this does not mean channels like Meta will go away, but they need to grow to ensure that users are heard and responded to in a timely fashion." Well, that's encouraging, I suppose. But it is a bit of a worry that the main post is on MSO rather than MSE...

2

Tinkeringbell

17:09

@PM2Ring as long as it's somewhere, it's fine by me. If you want engaged SO user's input, putting it in a place where there's a rep constraint sounds sensible.

PM 2Ring

@Tinkeringbell Fair enough.

rene

@terdon I like to make things personal ... specially if the discussion is about a group I'm part of.

Tinkeringbell

@rene What are you up to now?

rene

chaos?

Tinkeringbell

Ah. Please do that somewhere else then. I just cleaned.

terdon

17:21

@rene Surely you're not expecting the CEO to give you a breakdown of how you, personally, have made meta unpleasant?

And that MSE is unpleasant is hardly news. It's been that way for as long as it's existed.

Andras Deak

I can give him tips

kowax

@Tinkeringbell But why only engaged SO users? What about the rest of the network? The MSO post is featured for the site, unlike the MSE post.

Tinkeringbell

@kowax not only SO... Network Users with an association bonus can post there too

kowax

And there are generally people like me using socks to avoid associating meta activity with main, professional accounts, and I'm in no mood to get 5 rep on SO just to post that feedback.

(e.g. I answered the MSE post just now with this account which just had 1 rep)

Tinkeringbell

Well, then you eliminated yourself by choice.

kowax

17:25

I don't think I should have had to make that choice though. Whatever. I've said my bit and I'm out now. There's a reason why I generally avoid meta activity altogether.

terdon

@kowax This is hardly new. There is a long history of network-wide announcements being made on MSO, and an equally long history of non-SO users getting understandably upset over that.

That said, in this particular case, I can kind of understand it. He does seem to be seeking input from SO folks primarily. You can (and probably should) argue that's wrong, but...

Tinkeringbell

Meh. This isn't as much of an announcement either, like you just said

Andras Deak

was that a Sonic sock?

curious

rene

@terdon there was so much we in that blog that I wanted to add a personal touch.

terdon

@rene You're not actually expecting that the CEO will look into your user history and give examples on how you could have handled specific posts or interactions better, are you?

Andras Deak

17:32

@terdon the CEO and his team!

terdon

And you're one of the friendlier and more helpful MSE regulars anyway, so it would be hard to do even if the CEO wanted to.

Andras Deak

I'm sure rene could've emitted 20% more oxygen if he tried.

rene

that ^

Andras Deak

Global warming is basically his fault

rene

@terdon he has a diamond now, he might as well go over all my nasty comments and suspend me over it ;)

Andras Deak

17:35

He's probably rice so he wants The Netherlands to sink

Transcript for