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7:00 PM
is that a sweet?
Well, my wife would agree with you on that one
I thought that was some kind of dough-y thing...
It's like the zeitgeist. The representative
@Tinkeringbell well, there is no single type of baklava or its recipes
There is over here, according to google :P
@Tinkeringbell That's overkill sweet :P
7:02 PM
@Tinkeringbell Permission to flood Netherlands . . .
@It'sOver *The
@Tinkeringbell What's The Netherlands called in Dutch?
@It'sOver Nederland
7:10 PM
I was expecting a 30-letter monstrosity with umlauts and what-not
So only those pure of heart would be able to spell it
You could either ask the Frisians or the Germans...
I'm not sure, I think Papiamento has a lot too.
@It'sOver You're confusing it with German
"Deutschland" is still not a monstrosity
Ah well, YouTube is blocked. They're now threatening to eat my dinner. BBL
Pfft, they're blocking stuff again?! Enjoy dinner!
fingers crossed you'll still have an internet connection when you're back :)
7:28 PM
Heh, the US elections are near and Skeptics is picking up speed again
Random, sometimes outright hilarious accusations against candidates
That's good. (That people are at least skeptical enough to ask on Skeptics, at least)
Plagiarizing food recipes
My mom's apple pie recipe is kept secret for exactly that reason.
@Tinkeringbell chances it came off a box?
Isn't Twitter blocked in Iran? — SZCZERZO KŁY 2 days ago
7:32 PM
@Mgetz Small... There was a baker in the family way back ;)
Also, it's a really odd thing to say people of a country have any sort of real feelings toward the plans of a president of another country, even if that other country is 'murica
@It'sOver It's big stuff. one of my top answers was on a major candidate (albeit on Politics)
The leader of a foreign nation leaves at best a vague impression of fear (or respect) in people.
I dunno what someone blogging from the comfort of their home abroad thinks, but people did oppose America's assassination of the General.
And either way, emotions can be swayed pretty easily if their foundations are vague, so it means . . . not much.
I guess if the US stops shooting itself in the foot in the Middle East, then sure, people would be more inclined to show some understanding of US policies, if that's what "support" means
But, despite everything, it has been a usual case of leaders bantering and ranting, and people being caught up in the middle.
At least WWIII memes are funny
Gah, fat fingered that flag
It wasn't you. It was me, although on accident as well. I misread it.
7:42 PM
I hit the mouse by accident and thought it was me. Voted to invalidate
I thought it said II at first glance
(my bad)
Nah, even I have some restraint on what things I joke about
that timeline icon looks like all posts on all sites have been put on historic lock... kind of a melancholic look
"melancholy" is a weird word
Apparently can be a noun and an adjective, IIRC
7:51 PM
words can be whatever we word
word word word word!
warred ward wore dword
word worden werd geworden?
let me put on my... word robe >.>
the entirety of it
What did I just wake up to
7:53 PM
word, my dude
@It'sOver That's what you get for falling asleep during dinner?
@Tinkeringbell after a literature exam nonetheless
did you at least wait for all the students to hand you their papers?
7:56 PM
or was it a driving exam
or... medical >.>
@πάνταῥεῖ I dunno what that is but OK, the ones I saw were funny. 15 minutes of browsing Reddit.
A wise man once said we'd be using paintball guns for WW4
Or was it something more traditional
Not Iron Man suits?
Nah he's dead
Hush, spoilers!
Anyone seen Kiss Kiss Bang Bang?
7:58 PM
I tried but couldn't
@Tinkeringbell Pfft, it's like part of the fabric of the universe by now. History books even have it
scanner darkly was a fever dream
C'mon, it's funny
but it didn't have to look like that
@user1306322 Oh it's from the Boyhood director
8:00 PM
boyhood was nothing special, I don't even remember anything notable about it
Maybe that's special
at least scanner darkly acidified my irises
when you play around with all the wacky video filters, turn them up to 11 and then just render the movie like that
People have way too much time and emotional capacity on their hands to be so angry all the time
hmm comments by coach-d also seem to be in need of mod attention
I mean if there's a moderation problem on the site I can see how this happens
neither of the users' comments are okay imo
Yeah, flagged
8:07 PM
is there a steam database dump with the game store thumbnails/previews I wonder...
I don't want to get throttled for crawling the site and I want to get it all eventually
Man I really wish flagging didn't require joining the site.
it's weird that it does
I probably have accounts on most sites by now except some language ones I can't understand
is there no feature request to allow flagging without account?
@user1306322 It would probably invalidate the flag ban logic in some way... so it'd be more complicated than just flagging without account...
oh yea
Also remember that you need rep to flag.
You wouldn't want any random unregistered user flagging stuff either, not if the system handles certain flags without mod oversight.
8:15 PM
Why would a disgruntled youngling taking out their frustration on someone's answers in incognito mode be a good thing?
also there probably might be a legal issue with trying to tie flags to an un-logged-in user implicitly...
"Why was this unfeatured?" inc
well at first I thought it would be useful to filter out complete randos by seeing if you are logged in to StackExchange network in general, not to the specific site you're flagging on, but idk how that would work in reality and if it would be legal to do so
8:18 PM
@Tinkeringbell Both extremely good points. I do often forget that flagging requires rep.
oh so I got a yearling badge for casting a flag on academia lol
Yay, I scored points! :D
despite me working with teh codez I don't know how cross-site cookies are handled
you'd think cookies are tasty and good and should be shared, but no! Each site gets only its own cookies!
a bag of cookies on my table says "-65% saturated fats!" but down from what amount?
It's an interesting idea to allow flagging perhaps based on network-wide reputation: Chat kinda works that way for handling flags...

But you'd somehow need to tie the flags to the network account to allow for flag bans, and need to finetune that logic. I'm also not sure how much can be tried to a network account, that might need more work than it sounds like...
it's like "now with less poison!" - so how much poison is there now???
8:22 PM
@Tinkeringbell I wonder if you could allow it for moderators at least? It would kind of make sense right?
Sense in the logical way, not necessarily technically feasible way.
@Rubiksmoose I mean... if you're a moderator you can also make an account on each site and have the reputation to flag, technically. What's making you not want that?
Also... I've definitely seen mods argue over what an answer is, so ... :P
@Tinkeringbell Eh, just having all the random accounts on there seems lame and unnecessary? But it's another good point. (that's 3!) It's not really costing me anything.
Ohh, we're keeping count now.. that many points! :D
I guess I was also coming from the position that the list of sites I've joined reasonably represents my interests and or interest in participating in said site.
8:25 PM
But that's not really the way I think most people view these things. If they even ever view network profiles.
@Rubiksmoose Ah yes, that's why I stop at the ones that are on 101 if looking at a profile ;)
I have heard people would like to avoid joining because you're giving another set of mods access at your PII... but I don't think those other mods ever really notice ;)
I suppose it really only takes one to notice
we're fortunate there has been no major abuse yet
lately I've been getting more confident that important data should never even get into third party's hands where possible
so many leaks from all the companies, even the VPN services lately
It's information that can help while moderating, but... I understand. It also comes with a certain amount of danger.
FWIW, if we do access PII, it's logged somewhere apparently, and the largest part of the moderator agreement is about promising not to abuse the information.
someone recently asked me "do you really think the world has become this much more dangerous lately?" - to which I can say we're simply becoming more aware of new dangers we've been exposed to this entire time, and it's a good thing because now we can protect ourselves against those dangers, unlike before when we didn't even know about them :p
@user1306322 I mean, once the sabre-tooth cats were gone, we could worry about smaller things? :P
8:35 PM
I'll be talking to a couple professional info security folks who know how to run a site without having to even accidentally log anything we wouldn't want to log from our users
Sounds interesting :)
It's frightening that mods, and not employees only have access to PII
I have no idea how NordVPN for example got hacked and leaked tons of PII it wasn't supposed to have
That's indeed strange.
it's a ridiculous headline to read, but this is our timeline :p
8:36 PM
@RichardsaysReinstateMonica You can trust me. I'm very trustworthy.
@user1306322 But, they said they didn't collect it, so you must be mistaken.... {SARCASM}
@user1306322 Just don't put anything on the internet that you don't want to be out there ;)
@meagar I don't even trust myself.
well that's also a topic of infosec I'll have to read up on :)
how to finally stop using admin accounts on important computers exposed to internet
A: How long can Moderator Resignation notices be featured?

Juan MModerator resignation posts will be featured for around 24 hours moving forward. We will not remove the posts from Meta but the featured tag needs to be removed after that time.

it's like... everything that could have been said, has been said already, and now it's time to move on
Yeah, sigh. It's very remotely understandable on a rational level... but absolutely not on an emotional one.
8:47 PM
@user1306322 ObXKCD: xkcd.com/641
@user1306322 Well that's a bit of a slap in the face.
@Undo-ReinstateMonica I applaud your audacity.
I'm freakin' angry at that, actually. You can't slap a former moderator in the face more than that.
I'm going to bed before I say something I regret.
9:02 PM
"If you can't handle me at my resigniest you don't deserve me at my moddiest"
wry smile
@AndrasDeak melancholy chuckle
A: Add a link to the timeline of a post

Yaakov EllisI am happy to announce that a new and improved post timeline is now available to all users. It can be accessed by clicking the clock icon underneath the voting and favorite buttons that are located to the left of a question or answer. Clicking on the button will bring you to the timeline p...

Sad that it was the last thing Shog9 did then they fired him though
Shog's last feature (cf. Fermat's last theorem). But I don't think so, I bet he did a few more things that they havent published yet. It'll be good ammo to throw at the community at times of crisis.
Bring more now then?
9:09 PM
you think they think this is the last one? :P
They surely hope so.
At least the people I spoke so far.
Heh, talk about wishful thinking.
May I, please? It keeps me going. ;)
Like how I'm also wishing for pizza for dinner tomorrow :)
I meant on their part, but knock yourself out
get yourself one of those $5 deep-frozen pizzas
I'll send mom for one ;)
9:13 PM
good kids buy it for themselves so mom can enjoy Jersey Shore in peace
I could do that, but then I'd be stuck with a rant about how I'm not eating the family dinner and how that's annoying and bad and ungrateful?
just dab and tell her to talk to the hand
XD I'd look silly ;)
I don't actually know what kids do these days, so feel free to be creative
You're calling me a kid? :P
How old do you actually think I am XD
9:15 PM
at least 13
16 even, if I'm Dutch ;)
I didn't know that COPPA had an exception clause for the Dutch. But I guess it makes sense...
It's... GDPR actually.
that would be weird
Q: Why do users in the European Union have to be at least 16 to participate in SE?

Sonic the Anonymous HedgehogI noticed this new paragraph in the Terms of Service: If you are located within the European Union, you must be at least 16 years old to access or use the Network or Services, including without limitation to complete a Stack Overflow Account Registration. By accessing or using the Services or...

9:17 PM
OK, that way it makes sense
I"m wondering... if leaving voluntarily is seen as a personal attack on the company, what light does that put all the firings in?
@JohnDvorak It's not the leaving that's the problem.
@JohnDvorak leaving is not a personal attack. Using a resignation post to write the truth is.
Maybe it's time to change the truth then...
if your establishment is built on pink farts and fake smiles then someone who tells how things are is disruptive
9:18 PM
What would you think had happened if say... 4 years ago, moderators would've started using their powers to feature a bunch of posts that were written like the recent resignation notices?

Even if they weren't resignation notices?
emperor's new clothes and all that
The problem is simple: basically the people running the company, at many levels, know absolutely nothing of it or of us. They are just random robomanagers without any particular "stack overflow" skill.
They see this stuff and they can't deal with it
They don't care about the community because probably they don't even understand why it is necessary to have it
Can we get the previous CEO back, please?
9:20 PM
@Sklivvz I thought that putting a big "here be toxic dragons" label on it is their "dealing with it"
@JohnDvorak what makes you think this is CEO specific? Joel had still been strong in CEOship and madness was already here
OK... they want to ditch the community because they have plenty of backlog to answers to provide despite ... but then is there any truth in them saying they want to keep cooperating with the community?
Closing meta is dealing with it. If they could only build an alternative...
This thing is hard. I'm willing to bet it as is hard for the CMs to execute as it is for the people that are hit by the execution.

But when resignation posts are like they are, can we really expect anything else? :/
@Sklivvz they do have an alternative. The Loop. Whatever that is.
@JohnDvorak they don't consider us "the community"
9:21 PM
The Loop is still in the idea stage, but the company lacks execution...
@Tinkeringbell bringing expectations into this is another can of worms :P
@AndrasDeak The Loop is blog post series where teams that work on different improvements keep you up to date.
but it's also somehow a system that allegedly contains cherry-picked users to solicit biased feedback?
@AndrasDeak Maybe. But it's why I said this whole thing is remotely understandable on a rational level and not on an emotional one.
Is there an alternative bug tracker? Is there another support forum? etc. etc.
9:22 PM
@NobodyNada-ReinstateMonica ooooh, so they are going to cooperate with the point hoarders then?
@Sklivvz they don't need any of that
@AndrasDeak No, that's one of the alternative ways of gathering feedback being worked on. The other one is a moderator council and yet another one is better bug reporting/tracking.
Of course they do
What is the current accepted term for the group?
you need all those things @Tinkeringbell
9:23 PM
@Sklivvz I'm sure paying customers get all the feedback channels they need
they do not need public Q&A to have feedback of any kind. Other than "I was hurt by that person"
I know because we've been giving all the feedback they need and they never* listen
@Sklivvz Of course. But you can also only work on so many things at a time.
Oh, I remember when there was no meta...
But then again, how are they going to satisfy the rep farmers when all of the moderator force walks out the door?
@JohnDvorak Which group?
@JohnDvorak That, and the "plz do my homework" crowd
9:25 PM
when they close meta, they lose the community. It's going to be a long, slow, painful death, but it's going to happen
@AndrasDeak We don't. I have many complaints about Jobs. My options are to either post on meta and get in an argument about how that's not the way we built it, or complain to a sales person. In either case, my problem still exists and nothing is done.
As soon as Charcoal gets fed up, SE is overrun by spam.
@Andy haha, that's "hilarious"
@Sklivvz Which meta and which community?
... or if the management decides they don't need chatrooms anymore (or the API breaks and doesn't get fixed)
9:26 PM
This one? Perhaps. I don't see them doing it, I believe it was stated somewhere publicly that we'd need this place for at least things like the FAQ.
@Tinkeringbell meta se/se (they need to close both, of course) and the se/so community
Site specific meta's are even different, as they also handle scope, closing/deleting...
@Tinkeringbell that's why they want to merge other technical sites into SO and ... sunset the rest?
@JohnDvorak allegedly [lawyer noises]
SO did not have such relations with non-technical sites
@JohnDvorak I honestly don't believe that. Andras is right, that's an allegedly and one I've only heard from users, not from any employees.
9:29 PM
apparently my sarcasm is not shockproof
It comes from the deliberately vague question in a survey I wasn't even allowed to fill in or see.
@AndrasDeak It's past my bedtime and another bomb just dropped. Use a /s :P
@JohnDvorak for what it's worth they didn't know what they wanted to ask if we believe their response.
which I kind of believe: it's easier to prove your point with the responses if you yourself don't even know what you really asked
@JohnDvorak I've seen that question. If they are stuffing that survey in the faces of new users, I think it's a great sneaky way to get some information on how many people actually know those sites exist, what those sites do, and what you're supposed to ask about on SO.
What could they possibly glean from the answers though, is the point I don't get
9:31 PM
next year the survey will just be a single checkbox with no text and the options "yes" and "no" and "other" (and all of them can be ticked)
I'd answer the survey with "no"
@JohnDvorak use all the Data^TM to gain Insight^TM into how [insert their current agenda]
@JohnDvorak I wouldn't be surprised if chatrooms go.
and especially [users who they think are problematic] were 15% more likely to [hinder the agenda]
...and yeah I said I was going to sleep but I'm bad at that
9:32 PM
Maybe it's a schroedinquestion. They decide what the question meant based on what answers they collect
@JohnDvorak Basically, that makes sense with Yaakov's answer ;) If you don't suggest an interpretation, based on the answers you get, you can probably decide what people think the question meant ;)
most likely, I mean
Like, 'All of MSO is now scared they'd have to co-habit a single site with ServerFault users' :P
Merging SO with anything would be a technological challenge, too, given they're currently running on different servers
@JohnDvorak Can't you just put a network cable between the two? :P
9:35 PM
... I've just realised how easy is to get rid of all sites other than SO
Topple the server rack.
It's also easy to get rid of SO and leave the rest :P
@Tinkeringbell "oops"
Maybe even easier :P
@Mithical "Something bad happened"
9:36 PM
but economically inviable
@JohnDvorak I say we arrange a mutiny. We throw SO and the company that earns money from it overboard and keep the rest ourselves :P Then we sail the seven seas and plunder whatever we encounter.
(Just kidding.)
I'm listening
@Tinkeringbell clearly
just when you thought it couldn't get worse right this minute
9:38 PM
Aw come on, you had me interested
@Magisch what did they do now?
moderator resignation posts are now forced to be featured for no longer then 24h
> Can't? Will. pulls out wristwatch
because apparently having a public record of people leaving hurts their bottom line
@JohnDvorak I was thinking of that one time the server the store's POS software ran on also had a russian porn site running on it ;) We could do something similar?
Just hijack whatever server isn't well-protected ;)
9:39 PM
@Magisch Ah. That's sooo 10 PM
ya know
Lure Bumblebee into the general area and make him sneeze. Instant EMP.
just mutiny sounds like a good idea now
start wheel warring. refeature them
if they keep unfeaturing them, keep refeaturing them
@Magisch Not really no. Leaving has never been the problem. It's that these posts are no longer about saying goodbye to the community only, but also talk badly about the company. chat.meta.stackexchange.com/transcript/message/8178134#8178134 and chat.meta.stackexchange.com/transcript/message/8178146#8178146 for you too ;)
oooh... mass firing?
9:40 PM
@Magisch Tinkeringbell wouldn't seriously suggest that
I haven't even had a chance to give those twitter rumours a proper read
@Tinkeringbell I reckon, but I still think they should be left featured as long as the local mods want
@Magisch I would. But then I'd put some CM that's unlucky enough to have to uphold this farce into a position where they'd have to either warn me or worse... That goes a bit against Shog's last request ;)
@Tinkeringbell What are they gonna do if the mods decide together to all do this? Fire every single one?
Any better word for that? Last request sounds a bit too ... dead.
@Magisch yes
9:42 PM
@Magisch The CMs? Probably stick their arse out for us and then have to do it anyway if they want to eat next week.
They fired fricking Shog. Some volunteer busybodies are nothing
you're right and I hate that you're right
super grudge
Magisch evolved into super grudge. Magisch learned frown.
and you know that if they held mod elections tomorrow they'd get a full suite of mods
not good mods, but they don't need good mods
@AndrasDeak they don't think they need good mods
9:44 PM
@AndrasDeak not now. but not getting good mods will pay negative dividends later
There's a whole lot of knowledge drained. But yeah, if people on my team were to leave and there'd be new ones... I'd do my best to teach them and make them the best they can be...

Because you don't really stay for less.
@Magisch by then they'll have sold the company
Ya know, I figured these posts happen when I'm not online
They always used to do that for me. I complained so now it's your problem ;)
@It'sOver wrong time zone
9:47 PM
I can help mediate the situation with caffeine overdose and a slightly handsome fee
@AndrasDeak I was on like an hour ago, right before this post
@Tinkeringbell You're a mod, you do caffeine overdoses without any handsome fees
OK, so it's your fault.
You got me
I'm Walter White
This is a wig. Kinda a thin wig
one thing is for certain though
this is just escalation
@Magisch the mod resignation post thing?
9:50 PM
it's just the company burning ants with a magnifying glass
@It'sOver I don't.
In fact. The only thing keeping my head from hitting the desk right now is my water bottle.
I should go sleep.
Be nice, be kind to each other. Don't blow things up while I'm sleeping, please, and good night! :)
We're always kind to each other
I shall dream of the day I don't have to sign out of chat with those words :)
9:52 PM
The anonymous SE Inc pointy hairs can't resist pouring more gasoline onto a fire can they. sigh
@Magisch I thought they might not go through with this, especially later today when they still hadn't unfeatured it. But I was wrong there again
@DisappointedinSE It's already back on though
undo refeatured it immediately
BTW, I'm pretty sure "nothing personal @dev" comments are gonna grow old really fast
@Magisch nice
@It'sOver doesn't hurt though
@Magisch I doubt that will stay for long that way, the official response hasn't changed since yesterday, they seemed determined to enforce this
9:53 PM
20 minutes later, in fact
Yeah, it's actually the only thing I'd say if I commented
they'll just demod Undo according to protocol
@DisappointedinSE this is basically like the cuban missile crisis: who backs down first
But the effect will wear off as easy as a Facebook like.
@Magisch well there's our side and there's the right side.
9:54 PM
I lost the ability to care tbh
that's healthy
And there's the Palpatine side
I swallowed a lot of my disgust and anger today to attempt a mend but they keep the flamethrower out while I tried to build a bridge
clearly my effort went on complete deaf ears and isn't appreciated
I don't want to discourage you, your efforts are valiant and honourable, but we're beyond a point where we should build anything
The problem with the Cuban missile crisis analogy is that they sacked Vasily Arkhipov earlier this week.
9:56 PM
Yeah, but it proves you're a cactus parrot of high quality and worth, to borrow from LOTR.
@AndrasDeak not even a trebuchet?
maybe I just need to sleep on this new dose of anger and see tomorrow
no, just walk away
Find something more fulfilling to do. Like rolling around in a pit full of skunks.
Trebuchets are so . . . when dragons existed.
Like, 100 years ago
@AndrasDeak That's filling and full
9:59 PM
Who's she

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